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911 Truth Will Never Fade, Only Grow!

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posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
I've reviewed just about every piece of information that I can in regards to the truth movement.

My suggestion, if you want to keep the movement alive,... All the truth movement needs to do is focus all their energy on demanding the video tapes that recorded flight 77 hitting the Pentagon.


Who told you the tapes recorded AA77 hitting the Pentagon? How can you make that claim?

In fact, you cannot claim 85 tapes showed AA77 hit the Pentagon. And you should know by now that no video is needed to know that AA77 hit the Pentagon.

You've been misled to think, incredibly, that all of the evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon magically does not exist. How amazing. And you are faced with the fact that if NO video shows AA77 hitting the Pentagon, you are going to have to face the reality that 9/11 Truth is nothing more than the denial of actual evidence.

Just like every Truther here will deny this: www.flight77.info...




posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 08:39 AM
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The pentagon conspiracy theory was designed as a strawman argument to keep justice seekers argueing about small stuff and not going after the administration and people in charge. This tactic was used during the jfk trial.

The point is that there were wargames being conducted on 911 and they were used as cover to execute the attack. Norad had fake radar blips everywhere as there were fake hijacked airliners on the morning of 911 training for antihijacking. That is why there was no stopping 911 because most of the air defense and good people thought it was all "part of the exercise"

I will send you the sources and links.


The official story has been debunked in every aspect by professionals and people in the u.s administration. It not important what kind of plane or missile.\


The only people that could pull this off would be delta force, israeli mossad with help from the Pakistani Isi and some from france.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
I've reviewed just about every piece of information that I can in regards to the truth movement.

My suggestion, if you want to keep the movement alive,... All the truth movement needs to do is focus all their energy on demanding the video tapes that recorded flight 77 hitting the Pentagon.



Thats what they are hoping for. Eventually some tapes will be released that makes 'pseduo-truthers' look stupid. Its a common straw man tactic.

Debukers like to pretend they are troother while making stupid claims in the name of the truth movemnet. Be aware of these tactics.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 08:41 AM
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dble post


[edit on 2-11-2008 by IvanZana]



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by cashlink
reply to post by jthomas
 


(Includes The 8 Traits of A Disinformationalist)
by H. Michael Sweeney
www.ominous-valve.com...
This is what you are doing; you need to take your lies elsewhere. No one is reading your rants, and sick lies. You are not debating anyone in here and “you” have railroaded my thread thank, for nothing!


It doesn't help your case to try every trick in the book to evade that you cannot substantiate your claims and that you refuse to admit that one does not need serial numbers to identify AA77 as the aircraft that hit the Pentagon.

All you are doing is illustrating the true nature of 9/11 "Truth", complete evasion and denial of evidence you cannot refute or deal with. Why do you think that the real name of your movement became the "9/11 Denial Movement" way back in 2002? Just look at your evasions right here.

You cannot demonstrate anywhere where I have told any lies because you know full well I haven't. YOU cannot deal with the truth.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
I've reviewed just about every piece of information that I can in regards to the truth movement.

My suggestion, if you want to keep the movement alive,... All the truth movement needs to do is focus all their energy on demanding the video tapes that recorded flight 77 hitting the Pentagon.



Thats what they are hoping for. Eventually some tapes will be released that makes 'pseduo-truthers' look stupid. Its a common straw man tactic.

Focus on flight 93. No Boeing 757 crashed in Shanksville on 911. The official strory has fallen flat in Shanksville.

Debukers like to pretend they are troothers while making stupid claims in the name of the truth movemnet. Be aware of these tactics. Divide and conquer.

[edit on 2-11-2008 by IvanZana]

[edit on 2-11-2008 by IvanZana]



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by cashlink
reply to post by jthomas
 


Why don’t you spin your lies to these pilots?
Why don’t you do some reading?
Its seams these people disagree with you, as well as I do

F.B.I. Counsel: No Attempt Made By F.B.I. To Formally Indentify 9/11 Plane Wreckage
www.911blogger.com...


I already debunked you on this here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's instructive to all here that you are now lying in a desperate attempt to avoid admitting that serial numbers are not needed for the purpose of identifying the aircraft that hit the Pentagon as AA77.

You need to admit to all here that you were shown to be absolutely wrong and stop your evasions.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by jthomas
Who told you the tapes recorded AA77 hitting the Pentagon? How can you make that claim?

In fact, you cannot claim 85 tapes showed AA77 hit the Pentagon. And you should know by now that no video is needed to know that AA77 hit the Pentagon.

You've been misled to think, incredibly, that all of the evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon magically does not exist. How amazing. And you are faced with the fact that if NO video shows AA77 hitting the Pentagon, you are going to have to face the reality that 9/11 Truth is nothing more than the denial of actual evidence.

Just like every Truther here will deny this: www.flight77.info...

So we don't need serial numbers or video to KNOW that AA77 hit the pentagon?
What DO we need, the five frames that show anything BUT a 155 foot long 757?
Or the "word" of our government, whos story has already been proven to be FULL of holes?

Thats almost as smart as saying that a pilot who couldn't even control a cesna, descended 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270-degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon's first floor wall without touching the lawn, in a 757!

The government FANTASY story of what happened that day is so full of holes, their ENTIRE bs story must be thrown out, in the same way that a witness who has lied, must have their entire testimony thrown out.

Even IF they released all the pentagon video surveillance tapes "proving" that a 757 hit the pentagon, NONE of it could be taken seriously as evidence now.
They have had 7 years to "doctor" the tapes...
IF their bs story was true, why didn't they just release the tapes on September 11th, to keep rumors from spreading in the first place?

Hmm... Let me think about that one... Could it be because they HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE?
Oh no, not our perfect, honest, infallible government, they could never hide anything from us, or lie.

If you want to stick your head in the sand and believe christopher columbus discovered america, a weather baloon fell to earth in roswell, 19 hijackers perpetrated 9-11, Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated kennedy as a "lone guman", Jesus was 6 feet tall white/blond hair/blue eyes and pretty much looked like the long lost bee gee's member, then by all means please feel free...

I however, prefer to live in REALITY, not in the "beyond the looking glass" world our government has some people living in...



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by ashamedamerican

Originally posted by jthomas
Until you can demonstrate anyone stood in holes "hot enough to melt steel", no one has any reason to accept your claim of having any evidence of such a feat. So, go ahead, show us the human beings who magically stood in "holes hot enough to melt steel."



I DID demonstrate this, with a video of her waving from the "entry hole"
so here we have CLEAR evidence that you either
A. Haven't even bothered to look at the evidence.
B. Are just trolling, looking for someone to target and attack with rhetoric.



Originally posted by jthomas
You can't be serious. A video of her waving from from the "entry hole" tells us that the steel was barely warm, much less not hot enough to melt the steel she was standing on and leaning on. Have you lost all reason to make such an obviously ridiculous claim?

Furthermore, you can't even come up with an explanation of why the steel should have been hot enough to melt anyway.

Your claim really is quite amazing.

(snip)

I won't even bother with the rest given that you have demonstrated beyond a doubt that you are off into fringe beliefs with your statement above and apparently have no understanding why.

And there you just proved my point for me...
"A video of her waving from from the "entry hole" tells us that the steel was barely warm, much less not hot enough to melt the steel she was standing on and leaning on."




Exactly... So if the "steel was barely warm, much less not hot enough to melt the steel she was standing on and leaning on." (as you just stated in your own words) then how was that steel weakened enough supposedly by jet fuel, to cause a catastrophic collapse of the entire building?


You are in denial. Did you intentionally avoid my statement above? Let me repeat:

"Furthermore, you can't even come up with an explanation of why the steel should have been hot enough to melt anyway."

It must be hard for you to admit that you cannot demonstrate why steel didn't need to melt and why it was perfectly normal for that poor woman to be standing where she was without burning.

The pathology of your 9/11 Denial is truly amazing where the absolute rejection of all evidence you do not like is done routinely without any concern for the truth whatsoever.

And you wonder why your 9/11 Denial Movement is dying a pathetic death rapidly???



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by ashamedamerican
If you think our government could never plan such a horrible thing, check this out.


Completely irrelevant. You need to demonstrate that the government was actually behind 9/11 and after seven years of your whining, you haven't come up with any evidence at all.

You can't even come up with a plausible scenario without making us all laugh.

Another reason why 9/11 "Truth" (sic) is dying.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by IvanZana

The point is that there were wargames being conducted on 911 and they were used as cover to execute the attack.


Apparently, the fact that you cannot provide any evidence to support your claim alludes you, or doesn't matter at all.

Just like Creationism.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by jthomas
You are in denial. Did you intentionally avoid my statement above? Let me repeat:

"Furthermore, you can't even come up with an explanation of why the steel should have been hot enough to melt anyway."

You're right about one thing there Mr. Science...
"you can't even come up with an explanation of why the steel should have been hot enough to melt anyway"

Nobody can, because it defies the laws of physics for the steel to have melted from the jet fuel...
That is one piece of the PROOF that the government is lying...

Do you even read what you type?

You just proved FOR ME, (for the second time) that you, and the government are BOTH lying...

If you're going to troll, at least be intelligent about it.


Actually never mind, keep going, because you're slowly doing the 9-11 truth movement a favor, by debunking government lies, without even realizing it...



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by ashamedamerican
If you think our government could never plan such a horrible thing, check this out.


Completely irrelevant. You need to demonstrate that the government was actually behind 9/11 and after seven years of your whining, you haven't come up with any evidence at all.

You can't even come up with a plausible scenario without making us all laugh.

I don't "need to demonstrate that the government was actually behind 9/11" all I have to do is prove that their story is full of holes, and that they are obviously lying to us, which I and others have clearly done...

And how is a government document laying out plans to commit acts against it's own country "Completely irrelevant" to an arguement that the government committed acts against it's own country?
I love it when you post without actually looking at the evidence we post before you, it makes it so much easier to prove that your as full of BS as our government is.


Keep going, you're helping the 9-11 truth movement post by post, without even realizing it, maybe we can erect a statue in your honor.


Use this line in your next debunking attempt, it'll be a step up from the logic your attempting to use right now.
"911 wasn't an inside job, I saw it on T.V. and it was clearly outdoors!"

[edit on 2-11-2008 by ashamedamerican]



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by ashamedamerican

Originally posted by jthomas
Who told you the tapes recorded AA77 hitting the Pentagon? How can you make that claim?

In fact, you cannot claim 85 tapes showed AA77 hit the Pentagon. And you should know by now that no video is needed to know that AA77 hit the Pentagon.

You've been misled to think, incredibly, that all of the evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon magically does not exist. How amazing. And you are faced with the fact that if NO video shows AA77 hitting the Pentagon, you are going to have to face the reality that 9/11 Truth is nothing more than the denial of actual evidence.

Just like every Truther here will deny this: www.flight77.info...

So we don't need serial numbers or video to KNOW that AA77 hit the pentagon?


Correct. Just because you need a strawman argument is irrelevant.


What DO we need, the five frames that show anything BUT a 155 foot long 757?


You already know we don't need any videos at all. Just because you don't like evidence from thousands of different sources is irrelevant. We have all the evidence you cannot refute.


Or the "word" of our government, whos story has already been proven to be FULL of holes?


That we don't have to rely on the "government" to know that AA77 hit the Pentagon -- or to know what happened that entire day -- is the number one fact you fear the most.

Why do you think CIT has avoided interviewing any of those over 1,000 people who had direct access to the wreckage inside the Pentagon?


The government FANTASY story of what happened that day is so full of holes, their ENTIRE bs story must be thrown out, in the same way that a witness who has lied, must have their entire testimony thrown out.


LOL! Given that the evidence came from thousands of independent sources and not from the government means you desperately have to pretend that it's all a "government story." Your silly notion was debunked in 2002 when Gerard Holmgrem and Dick Eastman were shot down in flames.


Even IF they released all the pentagon video surveillance tapes "proving" that a 757 hit the pentagon, NONE of it could be taken seriously as evidence now.


And therein lies the action that I predicted the 9/11 Denial Movement would make.

OF COURSE you all would reject ANY and ALL videos of AA77 hitting the Pentagon if one existed. OF COURSE, you would reject any list of serial numbers if one were to surface.

I mean, JUST WHAT do you think your 9/11 Denial Movement has been all about these last seven years?! It's ALL about denying any and all evidence that is inconvenient to the desired political goal of your movement.

Why do you think you have gotten absolutely nowhere in the last seven years?

You just REFUSE to think rationally but I am happy you have admitted in the open that ALL inconveneint evidence is irrelevant to your 9/11 Denial Movement and rejected and ignored outright.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by ashamedamerican

You're right about one thing there Mr. Science...
"you can't even come up with an explanation of why the steel should have been hot enough to melt anyway"

Nobody can, because it defies the laws of physics for the steel to have melted from the jet fuel...[/quoted]

The steel didn't melt and it didn't need to.

You just give us another example how you are required to deny the evidence in order for you to support your 9/11 Denial Movement.

You would do better not to post than to continually illustrate my case for me.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by ashamedamerican

I don't "need to demonstrate that the government was actually behind 9/11"


Really? So you can't claim 9/11 was an inside job, can you? So why are claiming that?


...all I have to do is prove that their story is full of holes, and that they are obviously lying to us, which I and others have clearly done...


The fact that you have to deny that the evidence came from thousands of independent sources and not the government is already known. The fact that you have to refute ALL of that evidence but cannot do so is clearly demonstrated.

*snip*
Removed Snide Remark

This is just another reason your 9/11 Denial Movement is dying rapidly. I wonder what you are going to do when it all sinks in.




[edit on 11/2/2008 by semperfortis]



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by jthomas
 



"You already know we don't need any videos at all. Just because you don't like evidence from thousands of different sources is irrelevant. We have all the evidence you cannot refute."

Thousands of sources? feel free to provide evidence, because we have provided eyewitness testimony, as well as video evidence, military testimony, firefighter testimony, architect and engineer testimony.
All you have provided is insults, snide remarks, and your undying belief that anything the government says is true.


"Why do you think CIT has avoided interviewing any of those over 1,000 people who had direct access to the wreckage inside the Pentagon?"

Because the people who had direct access have come out saying things like "there was no evidence a plane crashed anywhere near the pentagon"
If the people who had direct access, directly contradicted your lie, wouldn't you avoid them?


LOL! Given that the evidence came from thousands of independent sources and not from the government means you desperately have to pretend that it's all a "government story." Your silly notion was debunked in 2002 when Gerard Holmgrem and Dick Eastman were shot down in flames.

The 9-11 commission report played a "pick and choose" game of allowing the evidence that supported their claims, and omitting anything they didn't want the public to see. William Rodriguez can tell you this, he heard multiple explosions before and after the planes hit, above and below him.
But you would know this if you had watched the videos I provided.
(which you obviously did not, so you have no place here attempting to "debunk" based on assumptions and lies)


you have admitted in the open that ALL inconveneint evidence is irrelevant to your 9/11 Denial Movement and rejected and ignored outright.

And there you go again, misrepresenting my statements, and bending and twisting my words to suit your lies.
What I said was that even if they released the pentagon video's now, after SEVEN YEARS they couldn't be trusted as evidence. They have had too long to "doctor" the video.

You keep bending and twisting people's words, and dancing around the small mountain of evidence we provided, refusing to acknowledge any of it because you prefer to use disinfo tactics.

*snip*
Removed Snide Remarks

[edit on 11/2/2008 by semperfortis]



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by jthomas
 


Ok Folks! jthomas has proved what really happened on 911 and I want to thank you so much for your help you have won me over.

I hope we can be pales, maybe have a little tea, and a chat with some crumpets.

I thought I knew the truth but you have clearly proven to me that I was wrong


Who told you the tapes recorded AA77 hitting the Pentagon? How can you make that claim?

In fact, you cannot claim 85 tapes showed AA77 hit the Pentagon. And you should know by now that no video is needed to know that AA77 hit the Pentagon.


Thank you for letting me know, I was always wondering if we really needed a video tape to prove an airplane hit the pentagon. Your so sweet, thank you I will take our Government word that an airplane hit the Pentagon. I now know that I should not ask our Government any question and believe what they tell me. I now know that I was out of line for asking questions, besides our Government would not lie to us.



You've been misled to think, incredibly, that all of the evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon magically does not exist. How amazing. And you are faced with the fact that if NO video shows AA77 hitting the Pentagon, you are going to have to face the reality that 9/11 Truth is nothing more than the denial of actual evidence.


Cool dude, I didn’t know, I was been misled thank you for steering me in the right direction. Could I humbly ask you a question just a little one, could you help me prove to everyone were AA77 evidence is. I would be so grateful thank you.



It doesn't help your case to try every trick in the book to evade that you cannot substantiate your claims and that you refuse to admit that one does not need serial numbers to identify AA77 as the aircraft that hit the Pentagon.

All you are doing is illustrating the true nature of 9/11 "Truth", complete evasion and denial of evidence you cannot refute or deal with. Why do you think that the real name of your movement became the "9/11 Denial Movement" way back in 2002? Just look at your evasions right here.

You cannot demonstrate anywhere where I have told any lies because you know full well I haven't. YOU cannot deal with the truth.


I didn’t know that we didn’t need serial numbers to identify aircraft crash change out parts. What do we need to help identify that this airplane is the real airplane that the Government said it was. On the other hand, am I out of line for asking for a little proof.

Thank you for letting me know that I was in denial Really I had no clue! I had no idea that the real name of the truth movement is the 911 Denial movement.

Oh I wouldn’t want to demonstrate that you lied oh no I believe everything you say. Heck, I truly admire you and your truthfulness and your wonderful wisdom, infact you talk to people wonderfully. Will you teach me how to be nicer to people I would really appreciate it thank you.



You need to admit to all here that you were shown to be absolutely wrong and stop your evasions.


I am so sorry, that I was wrong I didn’t know thank you for pointing that out.



Furthermore, you can't even come up with an explanation of why the steel should have been hot enough to melt anyway."

It must be hard for you to admit that you cannot demonstrate why steel didn't need to melt and why it was perfectly normal for that poor woman to be standing where she was without burning.

The pathology of your 9/11 Denial is truly amazing where the absolute rejection of all evidence you do not like is done routinely without any concern for the truth whatsoever.

And you wonder why your 9/11 Denial Movement is dying a pathetic death rapidly???


The steel was very hot I saw it melting and pooring down the side of the building. that woman she was a special woman because she could stand in hot firers, and not get burnt. Her clothes had to be made with firer retardant. I wish I could have known her , who know she could have been God, infact she had to be! Remember the Government said that the firers were so hot, that it melted the steel.

I did not know the 911 denial movement was dying a pathetic death rapidly.
Are you saying we are pathetic?
You are not being very nice, I feel hurt, please say you are sorry, that will make me feel better thank you.




[edit on 11/2/2008 by cashlink]



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 06:24 PM
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I apologize too, I don't know what I was thinking disrespecting the governments authority.

And how dare the founding fathers of this once great nation tell us that we should question our government, or suggest that government should be transparent, or that the government is the servant of the people.

Who do they think they are giving us the right in the constitution to speak freely and question our government.

They should be ashamed of themselves.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 01:21 AM
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reply to post by jthomas
 



The fact that you have to deny that the evidence came from thousands of independent sources and not the government is already known. The fact that you have to refute ALL of that evidence but cannot do so is clearly demonstrated.

*snip*
Removed Snide Remark

This is just another reason your 9/11 Denial Movement is dying rapidly. I wonder what you are going to do when it all sinks in.


Hi jthomas, its me again and my lovely dog Dora I just wanted to thank you again for giving us more truths on the 911 subject. Could I ask you a little iddy, biddy question. Please show me were I can find those “thousands” of independent sources that’s not the Government, because I am eager to learn the truth that you know. Because some how I miss those sources. What I really want is for “you” to clearly demonstrate that we have been misled or am I stepping out of line for asking you such a thing. Can I ask you something else what should I do when it all sinks in?
What movement will I be in when this Denial movement is gone? can you please tell me that because I am getting a little confuse? I thought there was only one movement in the search for truth.

I thought the truth was very important and I thought we owe the three thousand people who died in New York.
Anyway your help would be so grateful.



You already know we don't need any videos at all. Just because you don't like evidence from thousands of different sources is irrelevant. We have all the evidence you cannot refute.


I really need your help here jthomas, you just wrote that “we” have all the evidence
Could you please explain who “we” is? I would appreciate your wonderful help thank you.



That we don't have to rely on the "government" to know that AA77 hit the Pentagon -- or to know what happened that entire day -- is the number one fact you fear the most.

Why do you think CIT has avoided interviewing any of those over 1,000 people who had direct access to the wreckage inside the Pentagon?


Oh my! Your statement took me by surprise you say that “you do not rely on the Government for your information, of flight AA77 hitting the Pentagon. Is this the number one fact that I should fear?

I just needed you to answer one little question for me if you can. can you please give me the names of the 1,000 of people who had direct access to the wreckage inside the pentagon? The reason I need them is I want to write them all a letter about the wreckage, I think this will help me.


And therein lies the action that I predicted the 9/11 Denial Movement would make.

OF COURSE you all would reject ANY and ALL videos of AA77 hitting the Pentagon if one existed. OF COURSE, you would reject any list of serial numbers if one were to surface.


I wouldn’t reject any video that would show flight AA77 hitting the pentagon, do you know if one existed? I wouldn’t reject any serial numbers that could match the airplane parts to the crash airplane do you know if any serial numbers change out parts exist?



I mean, JUST WHAT do you think your 9/11 Denial Movement has been all about these last seven years?! It's ALL about denying any and all evidence that is inconvenient to the desired political goal of your movement.

Why do you think you have gotten absolutely nowhere in the last seven years?

You just REFUSE to think rationally but I am happy you have admitted in the open that ALL inconveneint evidence is irrelevant to your 9/11 Denial Movement and rejected and ignored outright.



Could you please tell me more about this 911 Denial movement? This is so new to me, you are the first person to ever inform me of this strange movement is it ok to ask, and why do these people want to denial the truth? That is what we are in these threads for is to learn and find the truth, don’t you think so?

Are you saying in your statement that people looking for the truth are not thinking rationally? Are you also saying that these people that are looking for the truth that inconvenenint evidence is irrelevant and that all people looking for the truth are out right ignoring and rejecting all proof concerning 911.

If people that are looking for the truth about 911 reject real proof of what happened on 911 why would they even bother coming in here to post, or even read any of this.
Wouldn’t it be easier for people who choose to be in denial of 911 to stay away from ATS altogether.






[edit on 11/3/2008 by cashlink]



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