Muslim Cleric Faces Possible Criminal Charges for Marrying 12-Year-Old Contest Winner

Originally posted by Sahabi
In rural, tribal areas it is true.

I understand, and I won't dispute that. I was responding the way I did because you said most cultures.

Originally posted by Sahabi
These people are Muslim. It's in their very religion to acknowledge menstruation as legal marriage age. For you to tell them they are wrong, is like a person telling you and your society that circumcision is wrong.


When a society is in the mindset that certain things are acceptable... that is when other cultures need to "Agree to Disagree". Unless of course "acceptable" involves genocide or some other major Human Rights Violations.

Besides the 12 yr old, he said he was planning on marrying a 7 and 9 year old. Clearly this man was out of line. Him being 47 and all. I don't care what the norm is for his religion. What else does a 47 year old man want with young girls like that, surely not for their brains.

I get what your trying to say about other cultures, but this is not the case here imo.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by schism85]

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage

Point being, if something is a norm in one society, what makes you believe you are right and their entire society is wrong?

I never said I was right, I just find your mention of Western Norms interesting, considering most people I meet from non Western countries have stricter ideas about sexuality and the age of consent. I’m simply disagreeing with your implication that this “mentality” should be “blamed” on Western societies.

Hello again

To understand my "pointing fingers at Western Norms", go back in history and research the pre-colonization legal age for marriage around the globe. You'll find that 16+ and 18+ are modern norms of the post-Christian and European Colonization of the "uncivilized" world.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Let's hope the goverment in that country do the right thing and stop this man from grabbing more contest winners.

WTF? What a strange contest.....

It is an insult to love in my eyes.

I also cringe when I mistakenly let my eyes wonder to a tele showing Rock of Love, The Bachelor, Tila Tequila... ugh I hates me some reality television

reply to post by Sahabi


So in your personal opinion this marriage is okay? (the one in the article).

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


I don't understand his argument personally.

He is saying the Western World imposed their ideals and conventions on the Tribal World, but at the same time he is defending marriage (saying marriage is acceptable at a younger age) which is not a tribal convention to begin with. He is picking and choosing.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I am saying, I agree that menstruation is an acceptable age for marriage, if the culture and/or society in the area also agrees this to be an acceptable norm.

But to "win" young girls in contests or to buy them... no I do not agree with that.

So really... are we talking about the acceptable age of marriage or winning young girls in contests?

The man is a disgusting pedo pervert. One article claimed he had a 7 and 9 yr girl lined up and his next wives!!

Pathetically, his wives helped choose the victim, and I would bet he bought them at tender ages too. The parents sold her into sex slavery, they all need to be charged with sex crimes!

ETA: I don't think the members of this sad saga live in a jungle tribe, they live in a society with laws, and it appears the man(a forty some odd yr old grown man!!) and his wives may face charges. That little girl must have been terrified, first her mommy and daddy sell her for money, to an old man who, well, we can only imagine her fear and terror.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by hotbakedtater]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


You lost me here dude. People do get married in Tribes and Villages. And for the majority of these tribes and villages menstruation is the legal age.

So yeah... you lost me 0_0

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

I am saying, I agree that menstruation is an acceptable age for marriage, if the culture and/or society in the area also agrees this to be an acceptable norm.

But to "win" young girls in contests or to buy them... no I do not agree with that.

So really... are we talking about the acceptable age of marriage or winning young girls in contests?

We are talking about whatever we want to talk about as long as it's on topic

I am happy to hear you don't agree with the marriage in question.

The problem I see with your position about 12 (and younger) being able to marry is that girls in this age fall victim to exploitation. Just like the exploitation we are seeing in the OP.

Bah! Duplicate post.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Sahabi


I guess I am not sure in what sense you speak of "marriage" and in what sense you speak of the Tribal World then.

Originally posted by Sahabi
Hello again

To understand my "pointing fingers at Western Norms", go back in history and research the pre-colonization legal age for marriage around the globe. You'll find that 16+ and 18+ are modern norms of the post-Christian and European Colonization of the "uncivilized" world.

Yes Sahabi, I understand that, but you are forgetting that even in Western societies marrying very young girls use to be a norm, and quite legal. That is something that has changed recently from a historical stand point, it has changed in the US as well as other places, it simply seems like a trend of modern, educated societies, especially when you look at the evolution of different countries developmental studies pertaining to child development that have helped them affirm what is acceptable and that a child is not mentally inclined to be in sexual relationships with adults.

It is true that girls of any age fall victim to exploitation. This is where the parents come in and should be the moral dictators to help prevent this. When the parents fail, the torch is passed on to the family. When the family fails, it is time for the community and/or legal system to get involved.

When a culture or society raises it's children to be mature much faster and younger, ideals of an earlier adulthood are accepted, including in the minds of the children themselves. Girls marry younger, boys use hunting weapons younger, etc. If the culture raises the children in a more slow progression, and ups the age of adulthood, the marriage age should reflect this.

I really hope you guys understand where I'm coming from. I do not promote pedophilia, and I'm not trying to be overly controversial.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


That's definitely the trend I see, and I attribute it to education as well And not because of Western take-over.

Originally posted by Sahabi
It is true that girls of any age fall victim to exploitation. This is where the parents come in and should be the moral dictators to help prevent this.

The parents are history once they are married though.

reply to post by Sahabi


I do understand where you are coming from, and I agree with it to an extent. But only to an extent. I do not see evidence, based on my every day readings, that leads me to believe a 12 year old (and younger) is intellectually and emotionally mature enough, even if, as you say, they are raised in a more progressive environment. I just don't see that. Have some convincing material for me to read?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Sahabi

 

I do not see evidence, based on my every day readings, that leads me to believe a 12 year old (and younger) is intellectually and emotionally mature enough, even if, as you say, they are raised in a more progressive environment.

I have to agree with you also. I cannot imagine a 12 yr old in the world, that wants to be or is ready to be married off to some older man, or any man for that matter.

So girls aged 9-12 are capable and mature and responsible enough to leave their parents home and assume the responsibilities of running their own home and maintaining the "wifely" role.

How could any man in any culture be psychologically satisfied by the mental infancy of a 12 yearold girl(or younger).

There is only one reason and that is for sex perhaps under the guise of procreation. 2000+ years ago in our own civil infancy we were not mature enough as a species to understand the complexities of human development.

I would like to think that today we have matured as humans, and developed respect for the process of growing into our own bodies and minds in due time. Moving away predatory instincts and separating ourselves from the other mamals roaming in the wilderness. This is what makes us human.

This is what religion has done to our world.

Note: before I start hearing all the whining I'm sure will ensue - I said, "religion" NOT Islam or Muslims.

Religion.

A terrible man-made thing that has brought us all to odds with one another.

A thing which allows people to kill their siblings based on an "honor" system.

A thing that allows(ed) us to make accusations and kill because we thought people were "witches".

A thing that makes you feel guilty for doing basic day-to-day things which any human does.

A thing that has cause more combined deaths throughout the course of humanity than all of the world's major conflicts combined (some of which were started because of.... gasp! Religion.)

Why can't we just believe what we want? Why is that so hard for the more primitive people on this planet.

Everyone is all up in arms over what they see the Muslims doing, well, wake up Christians - you did the same crap a few hundred years ago!!!! OH!! Forgot about that, did we? Don't teach that in your Sunday School class?

This man should be thrown in jail. A 12 year old? That's sick. I don't care what system he's under or how he justifies it in his "mind". It's sick. What's worse is that he'll probably get a lighter punishment because "The Koran says its a man's right".....

Sickening. Religion. Worship your God/Goddess/Higher Power in your own way. If they truly are forgiving, they will know your soul - even if you didn't eat a certain meat on a certain day three times a year. Wow, I'm sure you'll be alright.