Practical Application of Redistribution of Wealth

Originally posted by Buck Division
I was quite serious Ashley.

Oh my. Ok. lol Not sure where to begin then.

But to leave a large fortune? Why do you think that is fair?

Because it's theirs?

Because that's double taxation?

Because too many people end up losing it all when a spouse dies because they cannot afford the taxes?

Because it's stupid in the fact you're taxed for inevitable: Death? And not because of something like a purchase, gain, or profit. It's not a stimulation, it's just a money grab by the government.

Originally posted by donsancho79
Everyone in this country has the exact same rights and same ability to make it big

Who's kidding who here... What would W be without his clan and his dad's support? What would happen to McCain's career was he not married to the daughter of a beer mogul?

Originally posted by Aggie Man
I agree! If you are born into wealth, you are actually poor, it's your parents who are rich. If they leave all their millions/billions to you, then you did nothing to earn the money and are just as lazy as the poor that keep getting so much flack in this thread. So why not take it all away and make these silver spoon offspring re-earn whar their parents earned; otherwise, pump the money back into the economy to those who are productive, hard workers.

Please tell me you people are playing devil's advocate.

Please. I beg you.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by Buck Division

 

Take an accounting class. Seriously.

The story you relate below seems more attributable to human psychology than accounting or economics. (You are so patronizing to me, but that is okay. I like that! See below.)

In your story, the guy paying for the beer will probably stick around so long as he enjoys the respect of his drinking associates. He has prestige in the group, and is a highly valued member, with many social perks! The cost of the beer is small -- trivial for him.

In your story, the drinking buddies failed to honor their patron. So he left.

It had little to do with the cost of the beer.

Great story, my friend

again i say the death tax is not fair. it is their money if they want to leave it to their relatives the government should let them.

reply to post by AshleyD


Maybe I'm being devil's advocate. But tell me this: What makes someone born with silver spoon entitled to their ancestors wealth? does that not make them just as lazy as the poor unemployed fellow who inherited lack of wealth?

**Please Read - Apology**

I’d like to take this opportunity to apologize to the members and moderators of ATS for unintentionally misleading everyone on the origin of my original post.

The original post was taken from an un-sourced internet message board post which I copied to my thread. Knowing full well the plagiarism rules at ATS, I proceeded anyway thinking that there was no other way to source this information. I realize now that I could have done more to make it clear that this was not a personal story, and for that I am truly sorry.

I sincerely hope this does not make any of you think less of me as a member here. I have always prided myself on denying the kind of ignorance I have so foolishly displayed here. Rest assured this was not an intentional act, and it will not happen again.

Once again, I apologize for the actions taking at the outset of this thread, and sincerely hope that we can continue the discussion we have started here.

Regards,

nYk537

reply to post by Aggie Man


By luck yes because people cannot help how much money their parents attain in their life but i am a student in college and i will make something of myself and when i die because of the love i will have for my family my money will be their money and not the increasing deficit of the United States Treasury.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by donsancho79]

Originally posted by Buck Division

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by Buck Division

 

Take an accounting class. Seriously.

The story you relate below seems more attributable to human psychology than accounting or economics. (You are so patronizing to me, but that is okay. I like that! See below.)

In your story, the guy paying for the beer will probably stick around so long as he enjoys the respect of his drinking associates. He has prestige in the group, and is a highly valued member, with many social perks! The cost of the beer is small -- trivial for him.

In your story, the drinking buddies failed to honor their patron. So he left.

It had little to do with the cost of the beer.

Great story, my friend

Do you think anyone would pay an inheritence tax? Living wills and trusts will wipe that out. There are so many loopholes if you take the time to research it.

I understand your prestige point but I have to disagree. Most truly successful people are very humble. You probably won't even know they have money. There's a saying my CPA threw at me. "If you want to keep something don't let anyone know you have it."

reply to post by Aggie Man


You do realize that inheritance goes more to than just a trust fund silver spoon baby, correct? My husband and I know of two widows in our small town alone (ranching community) who lost their land because they couldn't pay the inheritance taxes. One of them now lives in their children's guest home.

My husband's father committed suicide when my husband was seven years old. Much of his inheritance was confiscated to pay for other inheritance. Then to keep the rest, my mother-in-law worked out a deal with the government that my husband could keep the land, oil rights, and other things if he agreed to work it when he was old enough- and the profits would go to the government until the inheritance taxes were paid off.

Does that sound reasonable to you?

Edit to add another story: A few years ago my husband lost one of his friends to cancer. The wife co-owned the family business with him but she had to close it down (or sell it, I think- don't remember) just to pay the inheritance taxes. And their employees lost their jobs. How does this stimulate the economy? Oh wait. It doesn't.

[edit on 10/29/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by educatedfool

Originally posted by Buck Division

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by Buck Division

 

Take an accounting class. Seriously.

The story you relate below seems more attributable to human psychology than accounting or economics. (You are so patronizing to me, but that is okay. I like that! See below.)

In your story, the guy paying for the beer will probably stick around so long as he enjoys the respect of his drinking associates. He has prestige in the group, and is a highly valued member, with many social perks! The cost of the beer is small -- trivial for him.

In your story, the drinking buddies failed to honor their patron. So he left.

It had little to do with the cost of the beer.

Great story, my friend

Do you think anyone would pay an inheritence tax? Living wills and trusts will wipe that out. There are so many loopholes if you take the time to research it.

I understand your prestige point but I have to disagree. Most truly successful people are very humble. You probably won't even know they have money. There's a saying my CPA threw at me. "If you want to keep something don't let anyone know you have it."

PS...my intent wasn't to be patronizing.

reply to post by AshleyD


AshleyD, all I can say is: all is good in moderation, including taxes. If the "death tax" can be as devastating as you describe, then it needs to be looked at. Then again, I can't imagine that anyone inheriting anything, including a pair of socks, can be worse off. I never inherited anything so I don't have experience with that.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by Buck Division
But to leave a large fortune? Why do you think that is fair?

Because it's theirs?

I hate arguing with you Ashley, because I love your viewpoints and posts, in general.

However, what I object to is the idea of "dictating from the grave".

The world is for the living, not for the dead. For example, consider a "last will" that gives money to your ancestors ONLY if they marry someone from a particular religion, or fulfill other unpleasant requirements. Is that fair?

Legally, I suppose so.

Forgive me mods for I have sinned. Double post deleted

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Aggie Man]

reply to post by AshleyD


Where do you live, Alaska? Certainly not a state that considers marital assets community property between the spouses. In Texas, If I die, there is no inheritance that my wife gets, as it was already her money to begin with.

Now if we both die, and we leave our money to our child or other family member, then that is an inheritance.

So your argument makes no sense to me and I question your statements, not calling them lies, just strongly questioning.

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Certainly not a state that considers marital assets community property between the spouses. In Texas, If I die, there is no inheritance that my wife gets, as it was already her money to begin with.

I actually live in Texas, too, about an hour south of San Antonio in a little podunk town. 'Birthplace of the cowboy' if that gives you a clue. You might have missed the story I added before reading your post. I don't know what kind of businesses they owned (a tractor supply company I believe- I can ask hubby if it's important), but yes, she lost her business to pay off the taxes from the business they co-owned.

Edit to add: And I don't consider this 'fighting' at all.

Oops: Edit again, you said 'arguing,' not fighting. But I don't consider it arguing either so no worries.

[edit on 10/29/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by Aggie Man
reply to post by AshleyD

 

Where do you live, Alaska?

Certainly not a state that considers marital assets community property between the spouses. In Texas, If I die, there is no inheritance that my wife gets, as it was already her money to begin with.

Now if we both die, and we leave our money to our child or other family member, then that is an inheritance.

So your argument makes no sense to me and I question your statements, not calling them lies, just strongly questioning.

My state is like that. If anything happened to me my wife would have a headache for sure. Fortunately I have planned ahead so she won't have to deal with probate in the event of my demise. It's easier to win the game if you know the rules.

reply to post by AshleyD


Now I am really confused. We live in the same great, community property, state. However, you know of folks that had to pay inheritance tax on money left by their spouses? did these people perhaps have prenuptial agreements that clearly divided their premarital assets? Otherwise, I have to call BS if they live here in TX too!

EDIT: to point out that inheritance tax, as it stands currently, must be a state controlled thing and not federal; as this spouse to spouse inheritance tax seems to vary from state to state. Federal intervention would certainly make this fair cand clear across the board.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Aggie Man]

Originally posted by donsancho79
again i say the death tax is not fair. it is their money if they want to leave it to their relatives the government should let them.

Consider, Don. You slave away, taking care of your sick Mother for years of your life.

Then, she cuts you out of her will, leaving it all to your sister. And your sister despised your Mother. Is that fair?

Just one of a thousand hypothetical arguments against allowing people to dictate from the grave.

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Now I am really confused. We live in the same great, community property, state.

Yes, I figured due to your screen name. My step-father is an Aggie, too.

However, you know of folks that had to pay inheritance tax on money left by their spouses? did these people perhaps have prenuptial agreements that clearly divided their premarital assets? Otherwise, I have to call BS if they live here in TX too!

There might be a difference between personal assets (like homes, savings, etc.) but she most definitely lost the business due to his death. This was 3-4 years ago at most because it happened during our marriage but we've been married less than six. So you can call BS until the cows come home but it truly happened to her.