Evidence Of Explosives Hurling 4ton Wall Sections on Winter Gardens Roof

DEMOLITION -

posted by tezzajw
Your proposition: If explosives were present and hurled 4 ton sections, then they must have been large.

Your proof: No large explosions were observed.

posted by Pilgrum
You're taking a roundabout route to arrive somewhere close to what I was saying in terms of the OP's 'Evidence of Explosives Hurling 4ton Wall Sections' - there really is nothing to support that. We have good evidence of 'hurling' and that's about it, the rest is conjecture.

There *could* have been things exploding in there - it commonly happens in large fires after all but if the building was in a sufficiently weakened state to succumb to explosions weak enough to essentially escape detection (externally) we have to remain open to the possibility it could also have failed without them.

DEMOLITION -

Then what are these 'things' which are merely conjecture? What 'things', which you claim are no large explosions observed and which are loud enough to be heard clearly far across the river miles away BEFORE the tower demolition, could these be?

What happened here? Did the 9-11 perpetrators and coverup artists neglect to CENSOR the sound out of this video?

At 9 seconds, a huge explosion heard from across the river, another at 13 seconds, and at 19 seconds, and more during the collapse. The antenna starts to drop at 16 seconds as the core structure is shattered.

What is that huge explosion at 9 seconds pseudoskeptics and defenders of the status quo?



DEMOLITION -

[edit on 11/3/08 by SPreston]

reply to post by SPreston


I see you caught the wall section swinging out toward the Winter Garden - must be well over 20 stories of wall just there.

Those initial 'explosions' (well before the collapse starts) - I don't see any material being thrown out and that's even allowing for the time delay for the sound to cross the river. No violent movements in the smoke plume either for that matter.

posted by Pilgrum
I see you caught the wall section swinging out toward the Winter Garden - must be well over 20 stories of wall just there.

Those initial 'explosions' (well before the collapse starts) - I don't see any material being thrown out and that's even allowing for the time delay for the sound to cross the river. No violent movements in the smoke plume either for that matter.

Of course. Not hurled. Not explosively ejected in every direction. Just swinging out 600 feet away from the North Tower which collapsed straight down. Heavy structural steel just loves to float in the breeze.

And those 'things' which can be clearly heard miles away before the North Tower demolition, are just unimportant; easily explained away, perhaps sonic booms from the jet fighters sent far away, out over the Atlantic towards the Bermuda Triangle, perhaps to see if those guys had anything to do with it? Does that fairly represent your position? Well at least you are consistent. Along with your comrades, you show there are no limits to your fanaticism.

Then what are these 'things' which are merely conjecture? What 'things', which you claim are no large explosions observed and which are loud enough to be heard clearly far across the river miles away BEFORE the tower demolition, could these be?

What happened here? Did the 9-11 perpetrators and coverup artists neglect to CENSOR the sound out of this video?

At 9 seconds, a huge explosion heard from across the river, another at 13 seconds, and at 19 seconds, and more during the collapse. The antenna starts to drop at 16 seconds as the core structure is shattered.

What is that huge explosion at 9 seconds pseudoskeptics and defenders of the status quo?

Originally posted by Pilgrum
There *could* have been things exploding in there

That's all I wanted you to state, Pilgrum. Thanks.

You admit that there could have been explosions inside the towers.

It doesn't matter how round-about you think that my proof was, it was able to show that explosions could have occured inside the towers.

QED.

Four tons is 8000 thousand pounds.
Equal to the weight of two very lagre cars.

Deflection from a gravity induced motion, (straight towards the center of the earth), will not impart a vector of velocity to that mass for it to travel 600 feet.

That mass could not ricochet off of anything to cause its motion to be an approximate angel of travel of 45 degrees.

Look at any or all of the videos of the collapse of WTC1 and WTC2.

The massive panels are following the path of travel upward and in a parabolic curve.

Gravity alone can not cause objects to begin travelling away from the center of the earth, in a trajectory.

The clouds of micron size particles and massive side panels create a parabolic path and this can not be explained by gravity.

There is a quality of trajectory in the collapse, disintegration is a better word, and the trajectory is parabolic.

SPreston, do you honestly think that reposting the same things over and over is going to suddenly get people to change their minds?

Originally posted by scotty18
SPreston, do you honestly think that reposting the same things over and over is going to suddenly get people to change their minds?

Am I the only person who does that? No? It is ok when pseudoskeptics and dee-bunkers and shills like jthomas do it?

You are right. Closed-minded people who can never dare to believe what their founding fathers warned them; can never possibly believe that their own government is potentially the worst possible enemy they may ever have on the earth; which may even murder their own families or abandon their sons and daughters as cannon fodder in greedy no-win wars. But at least they have their boob tubes for tranquilizers.

"Government is not reason. It is not eloquence. It is a force, like fire: a dangerous servant and a terrible master".
~ George Washington p1789-1797

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
~Thomas Jefferson p1801-1809

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."
~James Madison p1809-1817

Originally posted by SPreston
Closed-minded people who can never dare to believe what their founding fathers *SNIP*

So those of us who see through your Government hating rhetoric are the "closed-minded" ones? Why, because we don't agree with you? Remember this isn't the LCF, you *will* get called on your cartoon posting rants here. There is no skeptics forum to be banned to if people disagree with you here, and I know that must be a hard adjustment to make.

Are you trying to infer that you are in any way open minded?

Really?

Originally posted by SPreston
It is not possible that the hood ornament and hood would not have been damaged and scratched. Such a ridiculous script. Who wrote this nonsense? Dubya? Is that why you were hiding out in Florida behind small children? You were there on 9-10-2001. Did you do this?

Bolding mine, for increased "closed-minded" effect.

Originally posted by SPreston
since YOUR aircraft left NO JET FUEL on the road or on the lawn or in the Pentagon, then your argument is moot. Correct?

Uh..unhhhh. Can't do that. Not possible. Don't go there.

Originally posted by SPreston
Therefore in summation; it has been conclusively PROVEN that the Lloyde England light pole script is TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE. It could not have happened as scripted.

closed-mind·ed


adjective
Definition:

closed to new ideas or opinions: rigidly and obstinately averse to the consideration of new ideas or other people's arguments

You're better off sparing us of your judgments and humble yourself by not being such a hypocrite.

I see the extreme distance of debris travel the same as what is seen in "long run-out landslides".
www.agu.org...
adsabs.harvard.edu...
findarticles.com...
www.eos.ubc.ca...

Landslides of this type can start on one side of a valley and cross the valley floor then run up the other side of the valley.
Debris from the land slide of this type can run uphill.

I see the WTC collapse acting just like a long run-out landslide where so much AIR was entrained in the falling debris causing a floating of the debris as it collect at ground level.

Any geologist that studied landslides would see the same actions in a landslide and the WTC debris fall.

reply to post by ANNED


A good observation

The way the debris cascaded from the buildings had a lot in common with fluid motion like waterfalls and landslides.

Fluid motion?
Landslide characteristics?
Ok what turned the steel and concrete into fluid in midair?

I am talking about steel and concrete.

Material in a landslide has a different coefficient of static tension than steel and concrete.

The fountain appearance of the debris/dust/massive panels is impossible in a gravity induced collapse.

The trajectory of the debris is a parabolic path.

The only trajectory gravity induces on mass is a straight line from its center of gravity to the center of the earth.

What force is inparting the initial upwards velocity away from the center of the earth and outwards from the center of gravity of the buildings?

posted by ANNED
I see the extreme distance of debris travel the same as what is seen in "long run-out landslides".

Landslides of this type can start on one side of a valley and cross the valley floor then run up the other side of the valley.
Debris from the land slide of this type can run uphill.

I see the WTC collapse acting just like a long run-out landslide where so much AIR was entrained in the falling debris causing a floating of the debris as it collect at ground level.

Any geologist that studied landslides would see the same actions in a landslide and the WTC debris fall.

posted by Pilgrum
A good observation

The way the debris cascaded from the buildings had a lot in common with fluid motion like waterfalls and landslides.

You guys are not joking are you? Where is the hill your landslide slid down? Where is the valley floor and wall your landslide slid back up? You two 'scientists' actually believe this 64,000+ pound multi-section piece of outer wall structural steel 'floated' on a massive column of air over to the Winter Gardens and WFC3 buildings 600 feet away?

- - -



That is hilarious. The video does not show this piece nor any of the other large pieces 'floating on air'. Just how stupid do you think your readers are?

by David S Chandler - Physics-Mathematics Educator - BS-Physics (IPS); MS-Mathematics



Original video

Those heavy pieces are arcing up and out and down, hurled away from the North Tower by massive explosions shattering the central core. None of those heavy pieces of steel are 'floating on air'. Those heavy pieces came down violently from above, piercing the WFC3 American Express building repeatedly as high as 15 stories up and many other buildings also, up to 600 feet away from both towers. Those 4-ton pieces did not slide across West Street and then jump up on the buildings.

Sheesh. you guys crack me up.

Another view of Winter Garden and WFC3 with 4-ton WTC1 exterior wall sections

DEMOLITION -

Visit the website of WTC fireman victim family member Josef Princiotta for more information.

C.S.I. 9/11 by Josef Princiotta

Josef Princiotta – Cousin of Firefighter Vincent Princiotta, FDNY, Ladder Company 7, Manhattan, lost in the collapse of the WTC South Tower.

North Tower, I hear no explosion.



How about the South Tower? Look at the corner.

Originally posted by SPreston

Originally posted by scotty18
SPreston, do you honestly think that reposting the same things over and over is going to suddenly get people to change their minds?

Am I the only person who does that? No? It is ok when pseudoskeptics and dee-bunkers and shills like jthomas do it?

You are right. Closed-minded people who can never dare to believe what their founding fathers warned them; can never possibly believe that their own government is potentially the worst possible enemy they may ever have on the earth; which may even murder their own families or abandon their sons and daughters as cannon fodder in greedy no-win wars. But at least they have their boob tubes for tranquilizers.

"Government is not reason. It is not eloquence. It is a force, like fire: a dangerous servant and a terrible master".
~ George Washington p1789-1797

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
~Thomas Jefferson p1801-1809

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."
~James Madison p1809-1817

Si I ask a simple question about you reposting the same thing over and over as if it somehow proves what you are saying and THIS is your response...to say "but he did it" and then throw insults? I think this speaks volumes more about you then your pitiful debating skills.

The massive wall panels are in a parabolic trajectory, which means that there is a massive force pushing up, and outward, from below. This trajectory is evident along to entire height of both buildings. Therefore there are probably extremely energetic explosives placed at thirty foot intervals and each 30 foot section from top downward is imploded just ahead of the gravity velocity of the debris field coming down behind it. The existence of a parabolic trajectory is the telltale sign. Plus the energy involved is disintegrating the concrete in mid air.

To compare this to a landslide is luducrous at best and patently disingenuous at worst.

Yes the wall panels fall outwards but the floor panels pancake on each other starting from high in the building these floor panels compress air between them.

As more and more floor panel fall and the speed increases this air is driven outward at higher pressures this air goes outward on a horizontal plane.

This air hitting the falling wall panels pushes them further outwards.

You can test this with two simple tests first take some plastic cups and put them in a 2 foot ring on the floor.
Then take a large heavy book and drop it from 5 foot flat on the floor.
as the book hits the floor the air compressed between the book and the floor will blow the cups outward.

The second test is to take a deck of cards and drop them edge wise on the floor from 5 foot the cards do not fall straight each card acts like a wing and and travels away from a straight fall


Add these two affects together where you have flat surfaces (the wall panels falling) and the floor panels compressing air outwards and this is capable of pushing large well panel and other debris outward far beyond where in would normally have fallen.





[edit on 4-11-2008 by ANNED]

posted by ANNED
Yes the wall panels fall outwards but the floor panels pancake on each other starting from high in the building these floor panels compress air between them.

As more and more floor panel fall and the speed increases this air is driven outward at higher pressures this air goes outward on a horizontal plane.

This air hitting the falling wall panels pushes them further outwards.

You can test this with two simple tests first take some plastic cups and put them in a 2 foot ring on the floor.
Then take a large heavy book and drop it from 5 foot flat on the floor.
as the book hits the floor the air compressed between the book and the floor will blow the cups outward.

The second test is to take a deck of cards and drop them edge wise on the floor from 5 foot the cards do not fall straight each card acts like a wing and and travels away from a straight fall


Add these two affects together where you have flat surfaces (the wall panels falling) and the floor panels compressing air outwards and this is capable of pushing large well panel and other debris outward far beyond where in would normally have fallen.

That's ridiculous. These are not plastic cups or plastic cards. They have relatively small surfaces for the air to push on and weigh 8000 pounds. In the video these heavy objects are pushed UPWARDS and outwards; 600 feet outwards.






[edit on 11/4/08 by SPreston]

The poor poor 'bedchamber servants' in this tread.

I'm sure they're totally ignorant of what is really going on around them -
or how other more sane and aware people actually view them as!



".......
The emperor walked in the procession under his crimson canopy.
And all the people of the town, who had lined the streets or were
looking down from the windows, said that the emperor's clothes
were beautiful. "What a magnificent robe! And the train! How well
the emperor's clothes suit him!"
None of them were willing to admit that they hadn't seen a thing;
for if anyone did, then he was either stupid or unfit for the job he
held. Never before had the emperor's clothes been such a
success.
"but he doesn't have anything on!" cried the little child.
"Listen to the innocent one," said the proud father. And the people
whispered among each other and repeated what the child had said.
"He has nothing on!" shouted all the people at last.
The emperor shivered, for he was certain that they were right; but
he thought, "I must bear it until the procession is over." And he
walked even more proudly, and the two gentlemen of the imperial
bedchamber went on carrying the train that wasn't there."

reply to post by ANNED


ANNED,
Here is a simple experiment:

Instead of using styrofoam cups and cards, use bricks, because bricks more closley approximate the surface area to mass ratio of the panels, than cards or cups.

I used flat steppingstone bricks, and got none of them to float anywhere, no matter how high I was when I dropped the other bricks on them.

One thing I expressly caution you though if you use bricks is for you to wear steel toed boots, as there is inherently more possibility in your case that the bricks if they hit your foot will hurt more than the cups or cards.

I am anxiously awating the results of your experiment with bricks, to see if it duplicates my results.

Oh, if bricks are out of the equation then try the same with a set of dominoes. Domino more closley approximated the surface area to mass ratio of the panels than cups or cards.

posted by djeminy
The poor poor 'bedchamber servants' in this tread.

I'm sure they're totally ignorant of what is really going on around them -
or how other more sane and aware people actually view them as!

Trapped in their fanatical government is god and therefore cannot do wrong against us belief system, they will vehemently defend the naked emperor marching down the road to their last dying breath.

posted by fmcanarney
One thing I expressly caution you though if you use bricks is for you to wear steel toed boots, as there is inherently more possibility in your case that the bricks if they hit your foot will hurt more than the cups or cards.

I think using the original 8000 pound exterior wall sections would ensure a much more accurate test . . . . and yes, by all means wear steel toed boots . . . . . and a hard hat, as these structural steel workers exhibit.