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A question for our European and Aussie friends...Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?

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posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 12:29 AM
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lifeform i think it will make them a little less apprehensive in using a gun knowing everyone can pull out a gun at any minute the best shooter wins. There has been less crime from criminals knowing others have a gun compared to knowing they dont.
Stop reading snopes and and do more research.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]




posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 12:50 AM
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reply to post by meadowfairy
 


and a man dieing of starvation is'nt going to take a chance? when the stuff hits the fan people will be desperate, they will need things to survive.
the OP is clearly talking about defending theirselves in a time of unrest.

NOT a time of plenty. gangs will form, little armies of citizens, little wars will be waged as everybody competes for what is available to survive.

in those situations it makes no difference what weapon the population is allowed to carry. when the stuff hits the fan and people are desperate their gun will become something more than simply self defence, and what would they have to lose? a quick death versus a slow and painful one?

by the way, if you car'nt own guns who is going to whip a gun out at you?

[edit on 29-10-2008 by lifeform]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 12:52 AM
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posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 12:53 AM
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reply to post by meadowfairy
 


I was just throwing the numbers up there.

I also do not think comparing the two countries works. Australia's population is so small and it seems pretty urban from my understanding.

Nyc alone has almost half the entire popuation of Australia.

Like I said in an earlier post, America was built on the belief that gun ownership was a defining characteristic of what it is to be American. People will never give them up. Right or wrong other countries don't understand this.


A question for UK, Australian, European members.

Without googling....give your honest answer.

How easy do you think it is to purchase a hand gun in the USA?

I'll add to that, legally purchase. You can buy a gun illeaglly in any country if you really wanted one. I know someone will bring that up.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 12:55 AM
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On the topic, what do you do in Europe if a man enters your home at night with a gun? Do you call the police?

Second, eat eggs.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 01:15 AM
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Considering their low gun crime rates, if I were them I'd be pretty happy about that. But if the government went nuts (less likely than with ours) then I'd be upset.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 01:22 AM
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Yes when the government will go nuts is a problem.

Lifeform and i give you sometthing similar. In times like that what weapon will give you a better chance of survival besides other weapons?

Now how can this sink in. Weapons will always be there. People seem to keep doing reverse psychology with similar answers.

I dont think its the fact that people are greatful there is no guns but the fact that every human dont like weapons period which is a given and very understandable. But the truth of the matter is they EXIST.

Except that in Australia when someone is to kill you you will have to search for a weapon.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by meadowfairy
lifeform i think it will make them a little less apprehensive in using a gun knowing everyone can pull out a gun at any minute the best shooter wins. There has been less crime from criminals knowing others have a gun compared to knowing they dont.
Stop reading snopes and and do more research.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]


also a few other points. people own guns in america, yet there is still a lot of gun crime in america. it dos'nt seem like your theory of people being apprehensive works for a lot of criminals.

also if people are whipping out guns KNOWING that the person they are targetting is more than likely allowed to own a gun for self defence, and that is happening in a time where MOST people are either well of or able to support and feed their family, what do you think is going to happen when there is unrest due to the lack of resources to survive?

we all live in selfish societys also, where people are willing to screw you over to get ahead, where people are always only thinking about themselves mostly.

there is another thread that mentions an increase in gun sales, the reason for the increase in gun sales is simple. people know things will be bad, they also know everybody has guns and they don't or they want to add to the strenght of their arsenal, they also know there will be a lot of desprate people running around who are allowed to own guns, so they need the gun to defend against the gun.

guns are only a good thing when defending against rouge goverments who intend harm on the people. they are NOT good in any other situation.

the ONLY thing that should be discussed where the ownership of guns are concerned, is does it make the goverment think twice, like you said?

from what i see, NO.



[edit on 29-10-2008 by lifeform]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 01:36 AM
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In Australia it is very hard to obtain a firearm indeed. Australians are not very aggressive and tend to be happy-go-lucky. We don't care very much about politics or religion. When Martin Bryant apparently went crazy and shot up Port Arthur everyone happily gave up their firearms to stop other potential violence from breaking out. As the OP indicated, this has created a situation where the people of Australia have basically given more responsibility to the government to protect them, rather than protecting themselves.

I see this as a big problem when it becomes clear that the government wants to use physical force to coerce the people to submit (as already happens with activists and protestors). Because lets face it, a less powerful citizen means he can be overcome physically much more easily. When all the citizens have this power stripped from them, the population becomes easier to control.

When I was totally anti-gun (several years ago) I never understood why America had it in their constitution that gun ownership was legal for all citizens - it seemed to me to be a bit silly that the population of entire country can carry weapons when most people really don't need them. It just seemed like a recipe for disaster and unnecessary violence. But with what I now know about oppressive governments, police brutality and the notion that foreign armies can be used to quickly create a police state and it becomes quite clear that allowing citizens to posses firearms is defiantly in the populations best interests.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 01:41 AM
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Originally posted by lifeform

Originally posted by meadowfairy
lifeform i think it will make them a little less apprehensive in using a gun knowing everyone can pull out a gun at any minute the best shooter wins. There has been less crime from criminals knowing others have a gun compared to knowing they dont.
Stop reading snopes and and do more research.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]


also a few other points. people own guns in america, yet there is still a lot of gun crime in america. it dos'nt seem like your theory of people being apprehensive works for a lot of criminals.

*Yes the gun crimes as i believe are by criminals and not upstanding citizens who wish to own a gun for self defence unless they are in a situation deemed otherwise.

also if people are whipping out guns KNOWING that the person they are targetting is more than likely allowed to own a gun for self defence, and that is happening in a time where MOST people are either well of or able to support and feed their family, what do you think is going to happen when there is unrest due to the lack of resources to survive?

*The same thing prehistorics done with spears. tongue and cheek. The matter will always be that end result like you say no matter what weapon is used, but a gun is the only weapon besides bombs that can outshine other weapons. So if they had no guns and only bats or rakes and only the criminals had guns what then i think the massacre will be worse when guns are only allowed in wrong hands and inocent people will result in more deaths from less able to defend due to only having a sewing needle. Im not a christian but even God allows killing for self defence in bible. A majority of Americans are unfortunately christian. This will also make it easier for governments to have a rich and poor society again.

we all live in selfish societys also, where people are willing to screw you over to get ahead, where people are always only thinking about themselves mostly.

*Agreed so hows that goign to change if the mindet is there. Only if survival skills and self sustainability were taught in all schools there might be less of a chance to starve to death.

there is another thread that mentions an increase in gun sales, the reason for the increase in gun sales is simple. people know things will be bad, they also know everybody has guns and they don't or they want to add to the strenght of their arsenal, they also know there will be a lot of desprate people running around who are allowed to own guns, so they need the gun to defend against the gun.

*The increase in gun sales will most probably also make governments rethink their evil strategies and help the people, thye cant survive without the people.

guns are only a good thing when defending against rouge goverments who intend harm on the people. they are NOT good in any other situation.

*depends on what those other situations are.

the ONLY thing that should be discussed where the ownership of guns are concerned, is does it make the goverment think twice, like you said?

from what i see, NO.



[edit on 29-10-2008 by lifeform]


[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 01:42 AM
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posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by CreeWolf

I feel sorry for Brits. Hundreds of years of tradition went down the toilet with no more Fox hunts.



No hunting with dogs that is! The foxes were (are, it still happens illegally) ripped to shreds by a pack of hounds - how cruel is that? You can still legally shoot them though, which is far more humane.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:01 AM
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No regrets here


* Hunting: - Unless it's necessarily for someone to get food, I can't see the point in shooting animals and hanging them on the wall to somehow impress your buddies.

* Self-defense: If I need a gun to feel safe inside a society, then either that society has some severe problems, or I feel inadequate as a person and need the ego boost.

* The "evil government" argument: again, if I need to fear the government so much as to keep a gun under the bed, then that society has a problem.


Australia is a robust democracy with a government that I'm happy with - even if the Opposition were to come to power in the next election, I'd still be satisfied.

Which is probably the cusp of this argument - Europe and Australia are completely different to the US.

Come to think of it, if I did live in the US, I'd want to own a tank, not just a gun!



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:04 AM
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Perhaps we're a little to hotheaded a culture. And we call ourselves the most civilized nation on earth. Maybe when we stop killing each other.

In canada they generally leave the doors unlocked, even in big cities, and will invite strangers in if they need a telephone or just a warm meal. You can walk down the street at night. Why is that?



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:06 AM
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I somettimes have to rub my eyes the way we are going. Mat since when was our society perfect or should i say government perfect?

Please Australians let every law pass and obide by everything like pip squeaks. People here are scared off the government not the other way around. Which is unfortunate.





[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:08 AM
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reply post to meadowfairy:

*Yes the gun crimes as i believe are by criminals and not upstanding citizens who wish to own a gun for self defence unless they are in a situation deemed otherwise.

no gun crimes are commited by some illegal owners of guns who feel a need to have one to commit their crime due to the likelyhood of their victim carrying one. and also by legal gun owners who do not become criminals until they have commited the act.

*The same thing prehistorics done with spears. tongue and cheek. The matter will always be that end result like you say no matter what weapon is used, but a gun is the only weapon besides bombs that can outshine other weapons. So if they had no guns and only bats or rakes and only the criminals had guns what then i think the massacre will be worse when guns are only allowed in wrong hands and inocent people will result in more deaths from less able to defend due to only having a sewing needle. Im not a christian but even God allows killing for self defence in bible. A majority of Americans are unfortunately christian.

if guns were banned the vast majority of criminals would not have guns. they would have bats and rakes. things you can run away from. whats more you could defend against that with a bat or rake and give them a chance to run away.

*Agreed so hows that goign to change if the mindet is there. Only if survival skills and self sustainability were taught in all schools there might be less of a chance to starve to death.

depends on how many people are competing for the land available to live of rather than education. although education helps once you have secured a area unlikely to be threatened by rivals who want to kick you out for their group to survive over yours.

*The increase in gun sales will most probably also make governments rethink their evil strategies and help the people, thye cant survive without the people.

the goverment are simply people. people in a better postion than most, people can live without people. think of it like, rather than a city lets have a village.

*depends on what those other situations are.

all situations, would you rather defend against a gun or a bat?


[edit on 29-10-2008 by lifeform]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by CapsFan8
Perhaps we're a little to hotheaded a culture. And we call ourselves the most civilized nation on earth. Maybe when we stop killing each other.

In canada they generally leave the doors unlocked, even in big cities, and will invite strangers in if they need a telephone or just a warm meal. You can walk down the street at night. Why is that?


I dont think its your fault. Canada has better medical drug screening then any other country. Americans are being poisoned by chemicals more worser then any other country everyday.

Even though Australians pretend they dont copy Americans if you come here everyone dresses and tries to act like them. The government and medical instituations here always rely on America and American standards. Australia also has the highest rate of plastic surgery in the world. A slight rub off maybe or we prune too early.



[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:16 AM
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Less than one week ago, I was threatened by an obvious looney who exhibited road rage. The incident was his fault, but we stopped, he left his vehicle to accost me. I remained cool as I had done nothing (couldnt leave as he had cut my car off in font of me and stopped). I let him rant for a moment, as I dont care about that. Then he turned back and raced towards my car and threatened to , and I quote, "bash my head in". As he approached closer to my window, he noticed the .45 ACP in my hand resting on the passenger seat, then turned back, without a word, and got back in his car and drove away. I did not menace him, I did not provoke anything. I simply showed I was ready to deal with an unbalanced person if I needed to. No shots needed to be fired. The presence of a self defense instrument was enough to send him scurrying back to his vehicle. It could have been easily another shooting that people who dont understand self preservation cant comprehend , but I am thankful it ended without having to fire the weapon. Think about it.....



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:19 AM
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reply to post by CapsFan8
 


This is true...I rarely remember to lock my door..but it doesn't really matter..nothing bad happens over here.
Not saying it isn't possible...but I can leave my house for a few hours unlocked and in all the years i do nothing has ever happened to me. I can walk to the store at two in the morning if i felt like it with out worrying that some idiot is gonna kill me. Its great to live in Canada..
.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:21 AM
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reply to post by riggs2099
 


We have some dodgy areas in the UK, but there are many places where you're just as safe and can walk around without fear any time of the day or night.

[edit on 29/10/08 by Insomniac]



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