A question for our European and Aussie friends...Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?, page 3

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reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 12:22 PM by PammyK

Can't anyone answer my question?

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 12:23 PM by Dermo

Originally posted by Doom and Gloom

From what I understand it is all but impossible to purchase or possess a handgun. Why is that?

Because the government has insured that the people cannot ever take back the power.

Handguns are easier to conceal and therefore easier commit crimes with.

Think of all the stabbings in the UK at the moment, if all those kids could get their hands on handguns, there would be chaos.

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 12:25 PM by wayno

reply to post by PammyK

The answer is "NO". Police need a warrant to search a private property.
Same as anywhere else I should think outside of despotic dictatorships.

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 12:25 PM by ZindoDoone

I have a friend who is getting rich at his private gun range. He is inundated by the Japanese and Chinese tourist trade. He rents firearms for them to shoot and teaches them firearm safety. He has a waiting period approaching two years. He 'invites' 10 folks at a time/week and his phone rings off the hook for reservations to his shooting camp. This just shows how much the citizens of other restrictive countries feel about their ability to own and enjoy firearms. This has been going on for almost 10 years. He fully intends to keep this up till he leaves this world!

Zindo

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 12:29 PM by BlackOps719

Originally posted by LoneWeasel
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

I don't buy this. The criminal has a loaded weapon (so you keep your weapon loaded at all times?), the element of suprise, and he's probably done it before. What have you got? A sense of aimless bravado, no means of quelling the inevitable panic, and no time to get the bullets in. Sorry, chum, I know who my money's on...

LW

And what will you do in the same scenario, only you being unarmed?

Rely on the kindness of strangers and hope and pray they dont rape or murder you?

At least if you have a weapon you have a fighters chance, many peoples lives and property have been saved by having a firearm. If you are a 120 lb woman facing a 250 lb male attacker, would you rather have to beg your attacker for mercy and hope he is feeling generous..or would you rather have a loaded .45 to help save your life?

You people who have such faith in the kindness of strangers have never lived in the pleaces I have lived or seen the kind of people that I have seen. People get murdered and raped on the streets of the US daily.

And Im glad that things are so warm and safe and snuggly up in Canada, truly I am. But how long do you think it will last? Many people are non violent and peaceful until you take away their home and/or means of feeding themselves. Then you get to see what human nature really is all about.

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 12:30 PM by PammyK

reply to post by wayno

So you could have hundreds of guns in your homes. As long as you are a law abidding citizen the Police would be clueless. Wonder how many people there are like that? What would you do if someone came in your house with one of those weapons and threatned to kill you and your family? Just stand there? Nothing wrong with defending what is yours.

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 12:44 PM by wayno

reply to post by PammyK

The likelihood of your "what would you do if ...." scenario, as I stated in an earlier post, is remote to the extreme. Though someone could in theory have a stash of arms hidden, in reality it is extremely unlikely there would be such a person - at least here where I live. That kind of violence, that they would then use one of those against me, or even the potential for it, is just not part of my reality. If it is yours, I am truly sorry for you.

Just as so many Americans seem to have trouble accepting that the whole world isn't a pit of violence prone maniacs, those of us not living there, have trouble really understanding I guess, just how bad your daily lives are; at least the way you yourselves portray it.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by wayno]

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 12:44 PM by BlackOps719

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by Doom and Gloom

From what I understand it is all but impossible to purchase or possess a handgun. Why is that?

Because the government has insured that the people cannot ever take back the power.

Handguns are easier to conceal and therefore easier commit crimes with.

Think of all the stabbings in the UK at the moment, if all those kids could get their hands on handguns, there would be chaos.

I always laughed at the notion of the police in the UK running around with little sticks and whistles trying to keep the peace.

If police in the US tried that nobody would listen at all. They would probably end up having to go back to the police station with no pants on, with said pants and whistle having been taken from them by force.

Different country, different culture I guess. Nice to hear the cops in the UK now carry guns at least.

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 12:52 PM by LoneWeasel

Originally posted by BlackOps719
Originally posted by LoneWeasel
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

I don't buy this. The criminal has a loaded weapon (so you keep your weapon loaded at all times?), the element of suprise, and he's probably done it before. What have you got? A sense of aimless bravado, no means of quelling the inevitable panic, and no time to get the bullets in. Sorry, chum, I know who my money's on...

LW

And what will you do in the same scenario, only you being unarmed?

The point is, I'll probably be no worse off than you.

ou people who have such faith in the kindness of strangers have never lived in the pleaces I have lived or seen the kind of people that I have seen. People get murdered and raped on the streets of the US daily.

And that's how you argue that free gun ownership is really working?

And Im glad that things are so warm and safe and snuggly up in Canada, truly I am. But how long do you think it will last? Many people are non violent and peaceful until you take away their home and/or means of feeding themselves. Then you get to see what human nature really is all about.

Never been to Canada. Live in London. But look, at the top of the thread was asked the question "how do you feel about not having gun ownership" - and it was specified that genuine views were wanted. Well, I gave my genuine view, and now you're attacking me for it. Weird.

LW

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 12:59 PM by PammyK

reply to post by wayno

I have never been a victim of any violence. I just feel that we should be able to bear arms in our homes to protect our families. I live in a very safe neighborhood in Virginia Beach, VA. Despite what you hear and see on the news it is not as bad as it is protrayed. There are some very violent places here in this country, but this is a LARGE country made up of all races of people. I lived in Germany from 1981-1983 and it was a very peacful country, since then I have been told it is not the same since the Wall came down. Seems other countries citizens moved into the country. I think when you live in a country with different races and cultures it takes a long time for everybody to get along. Just my opinion. I am happy you live in a place that is peacful, you are truely lucky!

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 12:59 PM by PammyK

reply to post by wayno

I just want to be able to defend me and mine! You never know what might happen. What if your country got invaded?

[edit on 10/28/2008 by PammyK]

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 01:04 PM by ManBehindTheMask

reply to post by LoneWeasel

what have i got? 3 tours over seas and serving with USMC, 17 years in the martial arts and a cool head. Bet whatever you want, but even without all the training and worldly experience, my odds are still better of surviving an attack on myself or my family then the guy who is not prepared.

p.s also had to edit here, yes, it is loaded at all times and its also on me at all times or within reach. Paranoia? no, after so long with having them around you, its second nature, like a cell phone.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by ManBehindTheMask]

[edit on 28-10-2008 by ManBehindTheMask]

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 01:06 PM by wayno

Violence begets violence. What goes around comes around. - Yes, cliche's, but true. This is not a black/white issue, so simple as well, as long as I have the biggest gun, I will be safest. Its still violent thinking.
Canada is not pure bliss. We have people with problems. We have people who would be violent if allowed. Its all here, but in less measure I would suggest because we put a value on peace, on respecting human life (no death penalty) and on reason. We as a people abhor heavy handedness by government or anyone else. As a society we lean towards cooperation and mutual support rather than dominance, power or brute force.
I don't think we're weak in any way because of it. Just a little less violence prone as a result.
Yes this is generalizing a bit, but I think you get the picture.

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 01:16 PM by BlackOps719

reply to post by LoneWeasel

Im not attacking your point of view, quite the contrary I welcome it, no matter how alien or foreign it may seem to me.

As I said, different cultures and different societies completely. I wish America was a wonderful friendly melting pot of king and helpful people from all nationalities and walks of life who could work together to make a self sustaining crime free society.

Unfortunately we are living in reality, and the reality here in the US is the polar opposite of what I have just described.

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 01:16 PM by Doom and Gloom

reply to post by wayno

Yep never seen any riots in any foreign country after a soccer match...

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 01:36 PM by wayno

There are lots of examples of movements like "Women taking back the streets", and grandmothers in urban neighbourhoods kicking out the drug dealers and shutting down crack houses. There are other ways to deal with crime than just defending yourselves with another form of violence.
It is theoretically possible to defend yourself with a bullet, but the reality is not such a sure thing. The criminals have guns that were stolen from whom? From law abiding citizens presumably to start with. Just a little kink in the right to bear arms issue.
There is no kink whatever tho when people, thru mutual co-operation, and positive thinking strategize and act to make the places where they live safer.
You all seem all to eager to have the chance to kill someone in the faint excuse that you were protecting yourself - especially, it seems, if the intruder is of a different race or ethnicity. -- Just picking up on an undercurrent of several posts here.

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 01:44 PM by SiONiX

Quick answer:

NO

Long answer:

In my country you need no weapon to feel secure. We have virtually no gangs. Robbery with automatic guns are extremly rare, we very very rarely see massacres with assault weapons. No AK's, Uzis (etc., dunno how they are called).

Shootings between police and criminals are even more rare, can't remember a single one (though there probably were, but I'm not aware of such a case, although I follow the news in TV and papers.

Drive-by's we only see in TV. American TV, of course

My country? Germany. So, we have also lived through what you are just facing (hijacked country starting silly wars).

Furthermore I must say I am shocked that many ATS'ler have avatars with themselves posing with their big guns in army uniform. Something like this would NEVER be imaginable in my country (maybe only in gun forums and the like).

So much violence is really sad, and unnecessary. It only creates more violence. It's like going into Iraq, killing innocent Iraqis, and then wondering why the terrorists over there find more and more acceptance and the violence backspreads (sp?). It's a doom loop.

And before somebody now says "that's not our people, it's our gov't", I must say that you vote them into office. If nearly 45-50% are going to vote McCain, a war-mongerer who sings "bomb bomb Iran", threatening Russia etc., then YOU are indeed responsible for that! (at least the majority)

I know, we in Germany also have elected Hitler as far as I know, and he had a huge support. People were brainwashed. Well, and so are you these days.

One more thing: If I would have to fear living here without a gun and see no chance of betterment with extremely silly organizations like the NRA supporting this BS, I would move!

[edit on 28.10.2008 by SiONiX]

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 02:15 PM by SiONiX

reply to post by Merigold

I was actually in Switzerland, where there is also a gun culture - however the crime rate is very very low.

That's because the Swiss is a neutral country, which was not invaded in WWII etc., it's only for defense purposes.

In the Swiss I can understand people have guns, every citizen is trained, has a safe for ammo and a gun in case sth. happens. They have nice little farmhouses there, which are in fact "camouflaged" defense positions, take a look: Swiss defense house

The only purpose they get take their guns out of the safe is when they need to defense themselves from outside countrys, cause they don't have a large army, the citizens are their army, you could almost say.

Sorry for this offtopic excurse, I just wanted to show you why I find it OK for the Swiss, but silly for the Americans (with such a huge millitary complex I don't think they need rifles to defend themselves. If so, then every G8 citizens would have to need a gun).

-The Swiss guns stay in there safe after their basic training for defense purposes. They have to own them, it's a little rich neutral country with once evil thugs around them in the world war times, so they did train every citizen, give him a gun and ammo and then those trained citizens have to lock them away in their safe. And they stay there, until some evil dictator tries to invade the swiss (in this case they need them to extend their very small army, not a huge millitary complex).
-The American guns are used to kill, rob, raid high-schools... oh, and to hunt, of course.

[edit on 28.10.2008 by SiONiX]

reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 02:34 PM by network dude

Originally posted by Raud
That's my idea. But basicly it's just "less guns, less shootings" that are my way of using logic. If I am wrong- then what is wrong with the statistics? And why havent we had one single shool massacre over here?

I could bring up the fact that in my childhood a school massacre was unheard of. Sure kids faught, but with fists. And they usually ended up friends afterwards. Our scociety is crumbling around us due to Political Correctness in my opinion. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. And they don't always use guns. I am proud to own several guns and am even prouder of the fact that I have never had to use one in self defense, (and pray that I never do). If I ever need them, I will be greatfull I have them. My neighbors are not gun owners, but if bad things happen, they will come to my house.