A question for our European and Aussie friends...Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?

reply to post by Merriman Weir


You would not give me an answer so I was attempting to get one out. There is a difference

I accept any answer you give as your answer. Thanks for the reply. I will share my thoughts shortly.

Hopefully you will drop your attitude in further talk? I think it is quite out of line since I didn't give you any nor did I provoke such (at least I don't see how).

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by enlighten2012

 

Yeah that quote had some paranoia in it.

But I understand it. I believe a massive World War will happen in my lifetime, so I am kinda on edge in that respect. Also, with all the crap going on here in the States right now, I don't think it's too far fetched to think things might escalate a little more. In which case home invasions (robbery, and such) isn't an intangible prediction. I possess a gun for the sole purpose of having an equalizer in case of defense.

well i hope that things wont come to that and you'll keep your little gun nicely stashed away for along time yet

Originally posted by enlighten2012
each to their own..... i dont beleive your lives as you know them will cease to exist if you loose some guns rights. my opinion.

I kind of agree with what you are saying, but on the other hand, I'm not so sure. I think for many Americans the gun ownership and culture issue is such a big thing for them, it accounts for huge chunk of who and what they are and what they know. That cowboy/Alamo/all-American action hero mentality is a big part of the American psyche, to the extent that I'm not really sure what would be left if it was taken away.

I don't mean that derisively either. I've genuinely believed, for a long time, that much of the American national identity is forever rooted in the cowboy or pioneer ideal where there's a wild animal, an angry Native, or the Beastly British around any and every corner and when those threats diminish, they create new ones to replace them: Communists, Muslims, socialists and so on.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
That cowboy/Alamo/all-American action hero mentality is a big part of the American psyche, to the extent that I'm not really sure what would be left if it was taken away. .

Well then I can serve as an exception to your rule

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

You would not give me an answer so I was attempting to get one out. There is a difference

Woah! I did give you an answer, I actually replied to your post, I've replied to several of your posts: all of them that have directed to me personally at least. Again, I am giving you answers but it seems like they're not the answer you are wanting to hear.

I accept any answer you give as your answer. Thanks for the reply. I will share my thoughts shortly.

Heh. You are saying you accept "any" answer, but this conversation is beginning to look differently.

Hopefully you will drop your attitude in further talk? I think it is quite out of line since I didn't give you any nor did I provoke such (at least I don't see how).

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

I haven't got an attitude! Or at least a bad one!

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
That cowboy/Alamo/all-American action hero mentality is a big part of the American psyche, to the extent that I'm not really sure what would be left if it was taken away. .

Well then I can serve as an exception to your rule

Oh, no! Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying every individual is like that. I'm talking about an overall national psyche and something that pertains specifically to a lot of individuals but certainly not all individuals. It's not something that's necessarily as explicit as everyone wearing stetsons or raccoon hats either or going to work with a gun in their coat either.

Whether or not you own guns yourself, it's undeniable that it's a massive issue for many, many Americans and just by being American you have no choice but to engage and be part of that culture whether you support it or not.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by PaddyInf

Seriously though, if "The Government" decided to come to do whatever people in the US are scared of them doing, the government will do it. I don't care how well armed you are. It's not about how many weapons you have, it's about training. A single supported company could decimate a small town of armed civillians, purely down to the personal skills and drills practiced by the troops, along with the added assets of the support arms.

Expect some guff how, 200 years ago, American civilians managed to defeat 'the best military in the world' and how they can do it again.

I've already tried pointing out how the difference between a trained soldier and an untrained militia was pretty marginal then. However, some people are adamant that a nation renowned for its levels of obesity is going to be able to repel a fit, trained army with superior weaponry using mainly handguns and rifles.

So therefore, there can be no objection from the authorities to civilian gun ownership if the public is overwhelmingly outgunned and can be crushed at the drop of a hat. 250Mn people, each with a hangun is still not a problem for a professional army.

Personally I'm a little envious that American politicians and much of the US public still support their traditional rights. British MPs rubber stamped a draconian OTT firearms law that penalised law abiding owners who already had to meet onerous conditions to get a firearms cert and had committed no crimes.

Gun control has no effect on armed criminals, who were never part of any legal gun ownership system in the first place. But our gun crime rates have since rocketed. I would support a return to the pre 1988 law here.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
That cowboy/Alamo/all-American action hero mentality is a big part of the American psyche, to the extent that I'm not really sure what would be left if it was taken away. .

Well then I can serve as an exception to your rule

Oh, no! Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying every individual is like that. I'm talking about an overall national psyche and something that pertains specifically to a lot of individuals but certainly not all individuals. It's not something that's necessarily as explicit as everyone wearing stetsons or raccoon hats either or going to work with a gun in their coat either.

Whether or not you own guns yourself, it's undeniable that it's a massive issue for many, many Americans and just by being American you have no choice but to engage and be part of that culture whether you support it or not.

reply to post by Raud


"Not a human right to own a gun"....your an idiot. Stay in your country. If you come here, I'll shoot you.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


MW. I didn't say you didn't just give me an answer.... I guess I needed to of used your quotes for you to see how I was replying to you.

I see your answer in the post you just gave.

I said I would share my thoughts shortly (because I had your answer)

As for the attitude, perhaps we have different styles of communication.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by dooper


You sir, DO NOT recall the Cambodians failing to take on Pol Pot.

But my parents-in-law do. My parents-in-law lived through the Hell of Year Zero.

What you, sir, do not recall about Year Zero is that Cambodia had gone through five years of civil war that killed an estimated 10-20% of the population before Pol Pot even got started.
What you, sir, do not recall about Year Zero is that in those five years of civil war Phnom Penh went from a self-supporting city of just over half a million to a totally dependent city of just over 2 million completely encircled and under siege. All, and I mean ALL supplied had to come up river (that stopped happening) or be flown in from Saigon or Bangkok. Unlike the Berlin blockade, the runways at Pochentong were under mortar bombardment as those aid flights were landing, unloading and taking off.

What you, sir, do not recall about Year Zero is that the Khmer Rouge did not go from house to house kicking people out at gunpoint and threatening them. They went street to street informing the populace that they had to leave the built-up area because the US were going to bomb it because the Khmer Rouge had now taken over.

On April 17, 1975 owning a gun would have done you, sir, #-all good. You, sir, would have already survived five years of civil war, including two-and-a-half years of siege (assuming you were from Phnom Penh), you would most likely have been a refugee living under a plastic tarpaulin in the Boung Tumpun refugee camp, flooded in winter, baking in summer and burned out by rocket attack in between.

On April 17, 1975, you, sir, would have been just like all the others who survived being on the losing side, you would have been relieved that the shooting was officially over.

Or you could have been part of the corrupt elite who lost the war through incompetence and taken your stolen millions and fled to the US.

OR you could have been like the four million who lived outside Phnom Penh and already be living under the Khmer Rouge's control.

You, sir, need to get a #ing clue what you're talking about before you talk.

Good day.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


You obviously don't understand U.S. voting procedures.

We vote for candidates to represent our state, city, and local communities. By voting for people in your local community, city, and state, you help determine the types of laws, legislation, and spending implied in your area. If you do not agree with the views of the people in your community, you can move, or get out and campaign and vote for the people who do agree with your views.

It's brilliant really. The people of this country just don't implement it properly.

I already stated my opinion earlier in the thread, but I have a question for my American brothers and sisters.

In your opinion as gun owners, where is the thin red line, the point of no return, when you will defend your rights with your fire-arms.?

The way I see it, your thoughts and plans are individual as most, in many threads have posted comments like "When they come in my door", "When they try to take my guns off me" and "when they pry it out of my cold dead hands".

This, if its about your rights to live in freedom, as an ideology, has long passed because most of your rights have been eroded, as has your constitution.

If fire-arms were a way of safeguarding your freedoms and constitution, surely you would have used them a long time ago, 2001 being an example.

There is a diffirence between using firearms to save your once proud country and using firearms during your last seconds alive.

Respects.

Hi. I think your question needs to be reformulated for parts of the formerly free world (sic). Nobody in his right mind gives up the means for self-defense and protecting one's family. Switzerland- where I live- has a veeeery long tradition of firearms ownership. As a kid I grew up around guns. What we first learned was what you DON'T do with guns. Upon coming home from work I usually deposited my Glock 19 on the bed and went to take a shower. What I would find upon my return from the bathroom was a Glock 19 the magazine of which had been removed and the slide racked to make sure it was unloaded. My oldest son was six when he did this and the other two are no different.

I remember hearing that the group behind the consolidation of power we are witnessing globally is behind schedule. Here the impression is condensed. Switzerland is not a member of the Nazi European Union but we have a bunch of maggots (politicians) who cannot wait to crawl at the feet of their overlords.

Gun ownership is reviled, men in general are portrayed as homicidal madmen beating up their women and as perpetrators of family tragedies. Fact is, before we had this influx of so-called refugees from war-torn countries, armed crime was ridiculously rare. Fifty years ago not even full-auto firearms were regulated. When we spent Saturday afternoons in a quarry to make holes in thousands of soda-pop cans it sounded like a civil war was going on. Nobody took offense.

Two months ago I received a booklet advising me that I had to register all my (already legally owned and registered) guns with the police. As I am a member of an exclusive gun collectors' society I also have access to correspondence between collectors and legislators. The short of it: do not attempt to revise current jurisdiction because within two years Switzerland will adopt European Union gun laws (and the Nazis will come to get your guns).

I bet they already have lists of people who will be ordered to assemble at the nearest train station, no baggage needed...

Needless to say that exasperation is growing.

It didn't really help the European Union that in the German Bundestag politicians defined 'leftist fascism' as a contradiction in terms because that's what the EU maggots are practising, apart from blatant misuse of funds.

The booklet lines my waste paper basket and other countermeasures have been initiated. My life will end when they come for my guns but I will die as a free citizen, not as a Nazi slave.

All the populations of the countries pressed into membership of the European Union would give a lot to get out of it.

Things will have to get a lot worse before they get better. Invest in a decent rifle and a couple of .45 pistols, make money by selling all your guns below 9 mm Luger caliber and use it to buy ammo and food. When this load hits the fan we will all get speckled. You know the saying: An AK47 will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no AK47. If you don't agree try throwing pocket change at the black-clad goons knocking down your door.

Do not give up your right to keep and bear guns! If you do, you are cooked. When the war in Europe was officially ended in 1945 this was done without having vanquished the enemy. High jumps in 1946 and geophysical expeditions in 1958 didn't change that. Now they are again consolidating their power. They say the planet is overcrowded and it is their right to decide who is to live. We will see about that.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
Expect some guff how, 200 years ago, American civilians managed to defeat 'the best military in the world' and how they can do it again.

I've already tried pointing out how the difference between a trained soldier and an untrained militia was pretty marginal then. However, some people are adamant that a nation renowned for its levels of obesity is going to be able to repel a fit, trained army with superior weaponry using mainly handguns and rifles.

As you said, the difference in training and equipment was minimal back then. All a soldier had to be able to do was stand in a line and fire 3 shots a minute in any weather.

The amount of training that a soldier has to go through today is way in excess of that available to the average citizen. How can you even suggest that an army of citizens, even if armed with assault rifles etc, could stand up to an army of highly trained service personnel armed with tanks, APCs, artiliary, mortars, attack helicopters, fast air support and all the other direct and indirect fire goodies available to them?

Originally posted by captiva
I already stated my opinion earlier in the thread, but I have a question for my American brothers and sisters.

In your opinion as gun owners, where is the thin red line, the point of no return, when you will defend your rights with your fire-arms.?

I've asked this many times on various threads but don't recall getting a single answer. It's funny but year-on-year, America moves in the same direction as the rest of the world - Big Brother, NWO &c - and yet these people that claim they are armed and ready to stop it, are letting it happen incrementally in the same way the rest of the unarmed world are. So what's the point?

However, one this that is certain, whatever that 'point of no return' actually is, it will be different for different people. I doubt there will any real unity in it even if it did take place. There are some that will see the 'writing on the wall' before others. That's always the case with everything and, to some extent, this actual web site is evidence of it: hence the 'why can't the sheeple see what we see?' type thinking that runs through a lot of this place.

At the other end of this, there will be people that for whatever reason not accept that anything happens until it appears in their front room. By that point it will be too late of course.

Ha. I read your post and all i could see was your ignorance of the Australian (and European) ideals and way of life. As we can see on teh news weekly, that whole gun thing is going down real well with school and univeristy shootings as well in soem of your cities where someone is murdered every 3 minutes. Sounds like a top country.

Fact is Australia learsn from such events as Port Arthur Massacre. Australian government see's the light, and tightens up gun laws.

Fact is you can still own guns in Australia, just the process of obtaining one involves much more common sense, something the world see's America lacking.

Thousands of Australians enjoy recreational gun usage, while teh public lives happily and goes to school without the threat of some fool shooting up the place


End

Well Ive read this thread all the way through. Now would anyone care for a native americians opion. If my ancestors had a few guns my constitution would be different because, they would have shot the English and everyone else as soon as they got off of that damn boat

Originally posted by checkmate
Well Ive read this thread all the way through. Now would anyone care for a native americians opion. If my ancestors had a few guns my constitution would be different because, they would have shot the English and everyone else as soon as they got off of that damn boat

Really? Your logic is actually contradictory to what many are espousing here.

Many are claiming that it's not the fire power that matters; that handguns and rifles are more than a match for tanks, planes, artillery &c. As far as I'm aware, Native Americans had their own weaponry - certainly good enough for killing each other and hunting - when the English, Dutch, Spanish &c turned up and they'd have vastly out-numbered them too.

reply to post by BlackOps719


assaults and stabbings are far less fatal than shootings, and its pretty hard to shoot someone when you cant get a gun.