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A question for our European and Aussie friends...Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?

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posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:17 PM
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"All through history, there's been one bunghole after another who wants to impose his will on an entire people. Always! He who beats his sword into a plow, plows for him who kept his sword. Sometimes it takes entire generations for things to go tits up. But eventually, it goes tits up. Like it or not."


stop taking part. if enough people stopped and said enough is enough, started finding ways of not being dependent on the goverment for everything, there would be no need for guns, because things would never get that far. grow your own food, stop watching t.v., stop consuming things you don't really need, demand truth, complain when people are not doing their jobs, stop using credit etc etc. if people did that on mass we would'nt have a problem, the fact is people don't do that on mass because they have become lazy. if the goverment intends harm then that is the reason why it was allowed to happen. not because i did'nt own a gun.

the fact is nobody cares enough, thats why it will end in a shoot out.




[edit on 29-10-2008 by lifeform]




posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by BlackOps719 Is it that you folks are jealous that Americans are still able to enjoy this right that has been stripped away from you by your own governments? Is it sour grapes, or do you all really feel such strong anti-gun sentiments?

Jealousy, sour grapes???

You can't be serious can you?.. I pity the average American. That's the God's honest truth and I'm not stating that with my nose in the air. A country which only 18% of its people hold passports, a country more interested in Paris Hilton's life than anything else that happens around the world, a country which its people know little about what happens inside its own state let alone its country, a working class that is crushed and demorilised and as a result look to religion and guns as a way to compensate. As an Australian living in beautiful Sydney I can assure you that it is a case of anti-gun sentiment.



Originally posted by BlackOps719 I fear that things may end poorly for a lot of you and I genuinely feel concern for your basic abilities to survive in a hostile and rapidly declining and violent world.

Really?.. don't be concerned for us. Be concerned about what is happening in your own backyard.
When things like this happen;



Your rapidly declining and violent world is created amongst yourselves unfortunately. It isn't the government you should worry about, it's what next door neighbour Joe is thinking considering he says some wacky things from time to time and he owns a rifle, or Peter who just lost his job and is thinking of revenge, or Dave who can't quite make friends in college, thinks he's a loser in his own mind and is nearly at breaking point.


Originally posted by BlackOps719 What will you do in case of a violent revolt? How will you combat the already increasingly violent crime? If your government decides to show up and take you away next week, what means will you use to defend your families? Also, if and when food shortages do become commonplace as many believe they will, how will you hunt for food?

Our society is not brought up or fed on paranoia. This above quote is exactly what is wrong with America today. Why would the government take me away next week?
What food shortages?.. Australia isn't Ethiopia, and America isn't either. As for violent crime, well the boys in blue look after that, although I would admit our justice system should be a lot stricter and I wouldn't mind seeing capital punishment here for murderers and rapists. But all your other scenarios are just a little too far-fetched to even contemplate.

What I do fear here in Australia is that if we had easy access to guns that gangs would really become a deadly presence like they are in America with MS-13 and the hundreds and hundreds of gangs like them.

We already have a high knife-crime rate, we do not want a high gun-crime rate as well on top of everything else.





[edit on 29-10-2008 by Underbelly]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by lifeform
 


I recall the Jews not taking part in Nazi Germany and probably saying, enough. I recall the Cambodians not taking part against Pol Pot, and likely thinking, enough. I recall the Chinese in Nanking not taking part. I recall the history of Stalin and his purges.

No thanks.

Brutal force can only be met with more brutal force, more ruthlessly applied. One doesn't have to like it, that's just the way it is, has been, and will be. Since time began.

Predator or prey? We as a species generally get to determine what we'll be. I choose not to be easy prey.

Excuse me!



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


A group that comprises 6% of our Non 'Euro American' population is responsible for 49% of ALL the murders in America? Am I the only one who has a big problem with this statement?

I love the part about Norway having substantial gun ownership but not nearly as much gun crime ... as if to further illustrate how it's not a 'white' problem?

It's just not cool to blame gun crime on a minority group you're not even going to name based on some statistic ...

I was raised in the South, where there are lots of gun owners, in a house where my mom wouldn't allow hunting magazines, much less any magazine that endorsed owning or using firearms. I used to be so anti-gun, but, when I really sat and thought about it-

If you took the constitutional right to bear arms away from the citizens, then people who own guns are now criminals, and law abiding citizens have no way to protect themselves from these criminals. This happened with Hurricane Katrina, where police confiscated guns and left people defenseless.

Besides, why would anyone want the government to have all of the guns? We make it easy enough for them to control us .... I agree with the one comment that reminded us that guns helped us break away from a tyrannical government.

They don't want that to happen again.

PS- I don't own a gun, nor do I want to own a gun ... I just want people to be able to stand on their own rights.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 11:42 PM
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Well im from Northern Ireland and according to security information their are enough weapons hear for everyone in the country to have 4 Guns and not just hand guns - I mean .50 Barrett - RPG's - Stinger Missiles - Semtex -
Their is enough weapons hidden underground in weapons dumps to start one hell of a fight.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by Underbelly
or Dave who can't quite make friends in college, thinks he's a loser in his own mind and is nearly at breaking point.
[edit on 29-10-2008 by Underbelly]


hey! Thats not very nice! If your gonna get personal about it then hmpf lmao

Dave



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by liammcnamara
 

Now, I would expect nothing less from the Irish, from whom one side of my family is descended.

I think I read that in America, there are enough personal firearms for 89 out of 100 households. Of course, there are a few of us who could supply the entire neighborhood!

Good for Ireland, good for you. I've never seen the Irish back down from a good fight yet, and God bless Ireland!



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by andy1033
 


I would like everyone to look at what has been going on for a long time in the African states. It's the unarmed populace that is getting run over and slaughtered and raped by governments, terrorists and police.


That is a big statement, sir! If you think that THAT is a possible future for Europe or the US you are truly off target. In most countries police and officials are your neighbours, they will not get into that. It is difficult enough for our governments to find empty heads to fly over to Afghanistan and play soldier there. I ensure you that your scenario will not take place.

Why can it take place in Africa. A connaisseur of the state and social structure there told me that that is due to the tribal (which runs very deep)and social hierarchial structure. You wellbeing depends on obeying orders and killing off other tribes is tradition in some parts of Africa. Trance state fighting too.
Your comparison is way out off balance and could be a Scare Tactic IMHO.

In your other posts you do not seem to be an advocate of guns, so I find it difficult to place your remark. Maybe you tried to say something else?.


[edit on 30-10-2008 by Pjotr]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 04:01 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


I was expecting direct answers to direction questions


No I was not coaxing you into a corner to say "AHA! Gotcha!"


So the answer is "no I would not want a gun in this scenario" right? Okay



No, the answer isn't "no I would not want a gun in this scenario". The more accurate answer is "I can't see what help a handgun or rifle would do in this scenario so I can't see the point in owning one", it's a different answer. Again, you are trying to box me into giving you the answer you want me to say!


You made a few innuendos as to how I would think if someone chose not to possess a gun in this scenario. Such as cowardness. But you shouldn't have, I gave no reason to. I was merely asking.


They're only innuendos if you take them as direct answers to solely and specifically to your own post. The 'coward' thing is something that has been mentioned, in relation to guns &c, elsewhere on these boards. It wasn't something I was just plucking out of the air.



What I was trying to illustrate was a scenario where they were invading your homes as well. So there would be men with guns. You may or may not live through this takeover without a gun, but it doesn't change that you will be confronted by men with guns. It's not this "father who was enough of a dick to think he could take on..." in the sense that the father would have to join a local militia and separate from his family, or anything like that.


[edit on 29-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Read through that again. I was already aware that your hypothetical army had guns, that's quite often what armies carry; I wasn't expecting them to carry cleaning products to spruce-up my house even in your hypothetical scenario. As you say, 'men with guns' are invading my home: trained soldiers with guns. That's plural trained men with plural superior weapons. And my handgun is meant to do what exactly? Impress the soldiers? My kids? Change anything?

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 04:03 AM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
What good are rocks and sticks against those with firearms?


And again, what good are handguns and rifles against tanks, planes, modern artillery, modern training techniques &c?



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by dooper
Good for Ireland, good for you. I've never seen the Irish back down from a good fight yet, and God bless Ireland!


I'd rather God blessed Ulster


Seriously though, if "The Government" decided to come to do whatever people in the US are scared of them doing, the government will do it. I don't care how well armed you are. It's not about how many weapons you have, it's about training. A single supported company could decimate a small town of armed civillians, purely down to the personal skills and drills practiced by the troops, along with the added assets of the support arms.

The rampant paranoia practiced by certain circles in the US makes me laugh. As a soldier in a spearhead regiment I know that I've never been trained in operations against my own people (unless you include public order training to support police in sectarian riots). I'm sure there's a few US vets on here - Have you ever been trained in or practiced these ops?



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 04:14 AM
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From Aussieland: well so we have a little gun control .you can still buy guns. but you need to be entered into a gun club or a shooting range. you cant own a gun without being involved with it in some way as a sport. But you can still buy guns. Though people do have their criminal history's checked before they are allowed a licence to own a gun



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 04:46 AM
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reply to post by meadowfairy
 


there is no such word as ‘dumbed’ down.....though if there was, you wouldent be one of them would you?

*I never said all areas were bad.... i said things there are bad and i’ve seen it with my own eyes meaning, for example, i have never heard police/ambulance sirens going off constantly in my whole life like in some states....and i’ve travelled a bit.

*where have i quoted that i don’t think there are violent people in Australia? i dont own a pair of rose coloured glasses...

*generalising again......we all lock our doors here because someone may rob or rape us...what?

*get your statistics right....we have NOT the highest number of robberies of any country

in your eyes we are just a bunch of child abducting, backpacking murdering, uneducated race.....hmmmm maybe you should be pulling a certain object out of your own behind there mate.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 04:54 AM
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Kailiassa to cut it short.

Can you please water down the Australian pride bit. Im embarrassed we act this immature somettimes.

I live here and i know theres safe and dangerous places. America has the best and worst of everything, we have sometthing inbetween. Stop hogwashing that we are perfect.

Besides i know we are fine now and peaceful living without guns, but ther eis still and alwyas will be violence. There has been many Sydney shootings in the last year and past few months (yes for your sake alot of missed ones). There have been many inhome murders in Sydney and drive by shooting. This news was on Australian tv i dont know what news you get but obviously your media want to keep you in Australia is safe fantasy.

But i agree with America should have the right to bare arms especially in these unweary times.

If Australians are in trouble and cant obtain a gun so be it and its not likely when you are introuble with martial law anyway. But as i see it America might be in this trouble and their guns will always be there no matter what.

Besides Thomas Jefferson was the ggreatest predictor of the future that ever lived. I think there is a great reason he left that choice in the amendment.

Oh by the way the theft statistics was on nation master, google it. The last time i checked theft rate for Australia was last year so dont know if it changed.


Just googled it:
www.nationmaster.com...

Oh look at that Australia has the most crime victims them the USA.



[edit on 30-10-2008 by meadowfairy]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by PaddyInf

Seriously though, if "The Government" decided to come to do whatever people in the US are scared of them doing, the government will do it. I don't care how well armed you are. It's not about how many weapons you have, it's about training. A single supported company could decimate a small town of armed civillians, purely down to the personal skills and drills practiced by the troops, along with the added assets of the support arms.


Expect some guff how, 200 years ago, American civilians managed to defeat 'the best military in the world' and how they can do it again.

I've already tried pointing out how the difference between a trained soldier and an untrained militia was pretty marginal then. However, some people are adamant that a nation renowned for its levels of obesity is going to be able to repel a fit, trained army with superior weaponry using mainly handguns and rifles.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 05:05 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by enlighten2012

i have been to america a few times and have seen with my own eyes that things there are bad.


Interesting...


Americans tend to be alittle paranoid


So you are allowed to visit a few times and deem things are really bad, but if we say they are bad we are paranoid?


i am saying places i've visited are bad because of constant sirens blarring and also because there are people walking your streets that should be locked up in mental institutions....

this quote from the op dosent strike you as being alittle paranoid?

"What will you do in case of a violent revolt? How will you combat the already increasingly violent crime? If your government decides to show up and take you away next week, what means will you use to defend your families? Also, if and when food shortages do become commonplace as many believe they will, how will you hunt for food?"

each to their own..... i dont beleive your lives as you know them will cease to exist if you loose some guns rights. my opinion.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by Pjotr
That is a big statement, sir! If you think that THAT is a possible future for Europe or the US you are truly off target. In most countries police and officials are your neighbours, they will not get into that.


You know those police who like to get 'handy' with tasers and seem to use them for no real reason? They're somebody's neighbour too. When you hear of racist police in various forces all over the world, the people they are racist towards are very often as British/American/Australian/&c as the policemen themselves.

I'm not saying that the police or the military would or wouldn't turn on their own people, just that I don't buy into the idea that the police and the military are some paragons of virtue that baulk at the idea of turning on the civilian population. It happens already.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 05:16 AM
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reply to post by enlighten2012
 


Yeah that quote had some paranoia in it.

But I understand it. I believe a massive World War will happen in my lifetime, so I am kinda on edge in that respect. Also, with all the crap going on here in the States right now, I don't think it's too far fetched to think things might escalate a little more. In which case home invasions (robbery, and such) isn't an intangible prediction. I possess a gun for the sole purpose of having an equalizer in case of defense.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 05:17 AM
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I'm from Australia and to answer the thread question "Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms" NOT FOR A MOMENT.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by meadowfairy
Oh by the way the theft statistics was on nation master, google it. The last time i checked theft rate for Australia was last year so dont know if it changed.
Just googled it:
www.nationmaster.com...

Oh look at that Australia has the most crime victims them the USA.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by meadowfairy]


this just tells us that australians are more likely to report crime

if you go to total crimes or total crimes per capita....figures are much differant.



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