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A question for our European and Aussie friends...Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?

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posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by The Oak
I am a big hunter. Its my favorite past-time, but at the same time I would be in favor of more stringent gun laws here in the U.S. For instance; I would be in favor of banning all assault weapons and hand guns. I would also like to see a limit placed on number of rounds a gun can hold at no more than 3. In fact possibly even single shot weapons only. I think this would get alot of the anti-gun activists off our backs and prove we only want our guns for hunting and not violence. I consider myself a law obiding citizen and if our govt. passed laws banning a certain weapon, I would do the lawful thing and turn it in.


I do not agree. Rifles count for 5% of the murders and assault weapons are 1/5 of 5%. The 2nd amendment was never about hunting, it was the right to defend oneself from a tyrannical government or foreign force.




posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by lightchild
This is what happens in the UK if you have a gun

Man who brandished gun at children shot by police

They seem to shoot first ask questions later


paranoia sets in when everybody owns guns. whats your point?
uk.youtube.com...

were the police suppose to take risks when the man was not cooperating?

if the man did'nt have a gun he would not be dead or endangered the kids.
he may of lost his head and have a go at the kids but they would beable to retreat to saftey, and the man would still be alive. however thank god he did'nt pull the trigger first, the kids may of died. or do you think kids should carry guns for their own protection?

[edit on 29-10-2008 by lifeform]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 05:44 PM
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I Still have the best Known weapon.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by The Oak
I am a big hunter. Its my favorite past-time, but at the same time I would be in favor of more stringent gun laws here in the U.S. For instance; I would be in favor of banning all assault weapons and hand guns. I would also like to see a limit placed on number of rounds a gun can hold at no more than 3. In fact possibly even single shot weapons only. I think this would get alot of the anti-gun activists off our backs and prove we only want our guns for hunting and not violence. I consider myself a law obiding citizen and if our govt. passed laws banning a certain weapon, I would do the lawful thing and turn it in.


The whole idea that gun rights is solely so you can hunt in the US is the biggest lie ever perpetrated. The concept of the second amendment was to give control over arms to the people, since the people of the country are suppoed to rule, not the federal government.

When the # hits the fan, which it will, it is inevitable from a historical standpoint, you will not survive with that attitude. WOW...

I hope you realize that there are many members of the armed forces and law enforcement that know the truth and if it comes down to it, they will stand on the side of those that support and defend the constitution, not on the side of those who would corrupt and destroy those freedoms to support their own power base.

It is the toughness of the American spirit that had made it the world power that it is and what made it capable of breaking away from Brittain's oppressive rule two hundred and thirty two years ago.

It's not surprising to me that the one's who stayed in Brittain are a bunch of pussified socialists because they had to justify letting their oppresion continue.

I'm surprised that the Irish weren't able to utterly destroy Brittain, of course whiskey is the only reason the Irish don't rule the world. Now that is a tough lot. Of course I'm genetically Irish myself so I can relate.

I won't stand idly by and let everyone pussify my nation too.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by Lastone
 


your "mind"?

I do as well, and my brilliant mind tells me that I should have a gun or three.

If you thin kthat Americans should give up their consitutional right to bear arms, then you aren't using it.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 06:00 PM
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A Quote from our founding fathers:

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."

Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution, 1776, Jefferson Papers 344



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by BlackOps719
 


The right to own firearms is both the right to defend yourself and to need to defend yourself. Some cultures would rather not have the right to need to defend yourself, and so are willing to not allow everyone to own handguns and high-powered semi-automatic rifles. I guess they trust their police enough to protect them. Otherwise, if you have to protect yourself, you can never ever get drunk or otherwise be incapacitated, otherwise you leave yourself open to attack. The police are never drunk, always trained, and always have mental screening for possible psychiatric illnesses that would compromise their ability to protect people.

It's just a different way of looking at the same thing - protection. Europeans and Aussies want professional people they trust to look after themselves, freeing them from having to do so themselves, while simultaneously lowering the risk of them ever being attacked with guns.


Again, you're deluding yourself if you think that police "protect" you or even CAN protect you.

What has protected you thus far is the "idea" that there is punishment for the commission of crime and even that is only partially successful. Police do not prevent crime, the "idea" of police deter crime. Once emotion overcomes the fear of prosecution or there is a lack of fear of getting caught, all of the police in the world won't be able to do a damn thing. Police have not attempted to prevent crime in the US since they stopped walking "beats" They only post humously enforce law. The humously part of that last statement was an attempt at dry humor although it is too often the case. How many stories have you heard of domestic abuse being ignored until the person on the receiving end is dead?

You see, it is at that point that martial law will be declared and all rights as we know it will be shut off under the guise of temporary necessity.

That sounds familiar considering that during world war I the same thing was said about income tax, and I seem to remember paying income taxes the last ten years or so.

There's only so much oppression a people will be wiling to take before they have to rise up. It just so happens that the threshold for that with many Americans is lower than in other countires because we aren't typically capable of putting up with oppression. I am frankly surprised that we have put up with as much of it as we have since the socialist measures of the New Deal were inacted.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Masterjaden]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by lifeform
 


Anytime the UK police *think* someone has a gun and may use it to harm someone they end up dead.

Even people with toy guns are shot.

With all these non lethal weapons I am sure the police could disable a gunman.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 06:12 PM
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Im from the UK and have to say that here in Britain we have vastly diffirent cultures in Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales. There is unlawfull gun crime in very specific areas of Scotland, Glasgow for example has a high definition reputation for violence of all kinds, from guns to knives and each is associated with the "Gangster culture" that is run by very wealthy, through crime, well known criminal factions and families. I am sure that the only way i would be shot on the streets of Glasgow would be if I got caught in the middle of one of their gun fights or in a drive by shooting. The odds of one of them entering my house and me having to knee-cap them is so remote that it isnt worth considering.

Knife crime, especially drug related knife crime is a diffirent thing altogether and there are areas that I would just not walk through. There is still a heavy gang culture in the west of Scotland ( I think Glasgow alone has over 30 area related gangs at this time) but rarely are guns used by any of them.

Would I like to own a gun? at this moment in the worlds history most deffinatly yes!....why? because for the first time I feel that those who may do me harm are the very people that I thought would always protect me and mine...and they are armed.

I dissagree with the earlier posters who said that other weapons could be manufactured that can kill or protect. Im sorry but i dont see the relevance of standing with a hammer or metal bar in your hand as the guy with you in his sites is standing 30 metres away.

Respects



[edit on 29-10-2008 by captiva]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 06:13 PM
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Having read all the posts on this topic, I find them to be well thought out and informative, insight into the conditioning the people have undergone for many years. Sad I find it because many do not know what freedom is about. let me ask you all a question: As we know society continues to decay, no one can argue this. What good are rocks and sticks against those with firearms?
Folks the point of no return is fast approaching. When those in power with the firearms come to take what little you have left,What will you tell your wives,children , parents?
Be advised,get togeather, prepair, get firearms,food ect. Time is short!
The coldest and darkest time of night is just before sunrise!
Omega



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 06:20 PM
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in Poland it is possible of course to get a licence for a gun. all you need to do is to pass some psycho test. but for what you will need it here? as soon as others have not got one you will not need one as well. in US you are in a trap - you need to protect yourself with the comparable equipment your enemies could use against you. but it is just like a cold war. you need to get better and better stuff to feel "safe". someone is earning a lot of money on this paranoia. I had no time to read all the replies so I can be just repeating posts but what I want to say is that in the time of combat (if it happens) like the revolt it will be much safer to be unarmed but have a less population having the guns in the hands than to have all the neighbours shooting to each other and a gun in your wet pants.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by peterwilson_69
 


Really, and let's say all citizens give up the rights to own guns and then the # hits the fan and not many people have plum or apple trees???

guess what, then the government with the "guns" decides that you need to give up those apples for the greater good "theirs, not yours" and they steal your apples and you can do nothing about it.

Jaden



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by GodForbid
 


The answer is that they DO have guns. The people that you don't want to have guns have them and you have a false sense of security and the government has more control over you because when they do something heinous or against the people you feel you have no choice but to go along with it, just like the Jews in Nazi concentration camps;.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


I was expecting direct answers to direction questions


No I was not coaxing you into a corner to say "AHA! Gotcha!"


So the answer is "no I would not want a gun in this scenario" right? Okay


You made a few innuendos as to how I would think if someone chose not to possess a gun in this scenario. Such as cowardness. But you shouldn't have, I gave no reason to. I was merely asking.


'm sure that, if there was an invading force, my kids would prefer the fact that I went through a takeover with them and lived through it rather than be able to get misty-eyed at the memory of a father who was enough of a dick to think he could take on a tank with a handgun.


What I was trying to illustrate was a scenario where they were invading your homes as well. So there would be men with guns. You may or may not live through this takeover without a gun, but it doesn't change that you will be confronted by men with guns. It's not this "father who was enough of a dick to think he could take on..." in the sense that the father would have to join a local militia and separate from his family, or anything like that.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 07:33 PM
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This is all a bit silly. Different cultures, different habits, different terrain, different traditions, different assessments.

If one grows up in a culture that shaves their heads, wears purple hats, ties turpentine rags around their ankles and wipes their butts with shared sponges on a stick, then they would likely find it offensive when they ran across a head of hair, bareheaded, long pants, and would be completely confused as to what toilet paper was intended for.

Many of us in the US find it stunning that anyone would want to go unarmed. Many of you think the gun owners in the US are a bunch of paranoid cowboys.

Who gives a ****?

You do your thing, wherever you live, and we'll do our thing. We won't judge you, and you be kind enough to do the same.

We in the US don't believe in humankind to do the right thing. We don't trust that the police will always be there to protect us. A few of us have used our firearms to stop a violent crime. Even to stop a violent crime against another, unarmed person.

All through history, there's been one bunghole after another who wants to impose his will on an entire people. Always! He who beats his sword into a plow, plows for him who kept his sword. Sometimes it takes entire generations for things to go tits up. But eventually, it goes tits up. Like it or not.

I much prefer go up against someone armed with a tire iron, knife, or ax. Five or six quick hits in two seconds from a .45 ACP and the confrontation is over. No strain, no mess, no fuss. Well, some mess.

Nothing worse than suddenly finding yourself in a hatchet fight, and you're the only one without a hatchet!



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 08:31 PM
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Ha ha... lol. Yes! Pleaaaase outlaw guns. Criminalization has worked wonders for other income producing vectors such as drugs and it will make life for those of us who don't give a sh*t about laws so much easier knowing everyone is unarmed plus it will drive the resale value of black market guns out the roof overnight!!

Seriously, do you think the po-po will protect you? Ha ha. There just there to make a report and clean up the mess after its all over and then go get a doughnut.

Just remember, once you give them up *you can't turn back* fool! What, you think you can just say "I changed my mind, uh I would like my gun (rights) back now please" and magically it will happen?? LOL!



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by BlackOps719
 


Thanks for the opportunity to respond to this.

Let me start by saying that we seem to have wildly different perspectives on what a right is. Guns ARE legal here (Australia) if used for sporting purposes; target range, shooting game, shooting kangaroos etc. You need a license to own one and then you need to prove that you can a. store it in the home in a secure manner (police checked) and b. transport it in a secure manner.

Let me address something though. You speak of disappointment at giving up rights? Never mind the argument that you have a right to bear arms (In a militia) - actually thats the big one. In a militia.

Most of us feel safe enough in our homes or on our streets to walk around without looking behind us... for the commies that are gonna attack us... or the government thats hell bent on raping my elderly grandmother.

Wrapping yourself in a flag, justifying your argument with an outdated piece of paper - thats where the real danger is.

Dave



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by daptodave
 


I have to take exception with your statement that our Constitution is an outdated piece of paper.

Some principles are timeless. Freedom and the right to preserve that freedom are not outdated. You may disagree with the method, but you don't live here, you have no idea of our mindset, and we'll leave you to your own situation.

And I fear that in the near future, we'll see another test of the wisdom of these men who drafted and agreed on this document. Let us hope that those countries who are relatively unarmed will not be tested in the future.

After all, all life is a fight, a hide, or a race. And one is either predator or prey.

I don't mind prey. Just as long as you don't mind predators.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


For starters, our opinion was asked.

Second, it's obviously such a point of contention even in your country, that you need supreme court judges to clarify this one for you as was done earlier this year.

We had a debate about whether to enshrine our rights in a bill of rights about 10 years ago. The thing is that because of our judicial system those rights are automatically enshrined... fair enough you do need to speak legalese and have a degree in bull# to understand them all....

Maybe such a sweeping statement, "outdated" was poorly chosen; maybe archaic or antiquated.

But again, the question was about OUR opinions.

Dave



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:16 PM
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I dont regret giving up my rifles and shotgun, simply because I didn't give them up!

I went through the BS of acquiring a license for them for "hunting" purposes. Which means having to fork out X amount of dollars for a metal cabinet to store them - no biggy I guess.

What does make me agro is the fact that taking all the gun off the public has done NOTHING to stop to amount of murders committed. Now the only people who have guns are the criminals. Funny how that works ....

Murder by stabbing is out of control in Australia. Here in Melbourne they are making and enforcing new laws about youths carrying knives. Stabbings and violence is a daily happening in the local news.

All it proves is if people want to hurt and kill each other, they will. Taking guns from the public does not stop violence and does not stop the killings.
Home invasion by guys with guns has also risen. Too bad average Joe Smith doesn't have a gun at home to defend himself from these low life scum. The criminals must be as happy as Larry now they know they can run through peoples homes and 99% will be helpless to stop them.

The criminals have the guns, everyone else is at their mercy.



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