A question for our European and Aussie friends...Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


The you/they was simply in response to your use of the "US (or other) invader".

No, I don't believe it would be a good idea for the average Aussie to be armed in the event of an invasion. For the simple fact that untrained, armed people are far more dangerous to themselves than others. Why should the average Aussie step outside and invite death at the hands of the enemy? They have more important things to do, like feeding their kids, than dying for an esoteric ideal.

Just because you don't actively fight against an invader doesn't make you a traitor or a coward. Resistance comes in many forms.

"They also serve, who stand and wait..." for the opportunity to just make life miserable for the invader.

Where you (the US) have the National Guard, we have the Army (and Navy and Air Force) Reserve to assist the Army (and etc) in defending Australia. Unlike the NG, they do not belong to the states and cannot be "called out" just because the Governor (in our case Premier) is having a bit of difficulty.

They are trained, armed men and women and would actually be useful (er, I'm not comparing them with the NG here!). I'm sure large numbers of legally armed citizens would also volunteer their services (and their weapons) to the nation's defence. Those would experienced, armed people. Legally armed (in a fashion that would be useful for defending Australia) Australians are generally from rural areas.

From what I know of the "average" armed person (if such a creature exists) in the US, the arms they own and the experience they have would be questionable at best when it comes to defending the US against invasion.

Do you really think the Bloods and Crips could hold Los Angeles against a division of professional infantry? Let alone a mechanised column? With rotary-wing air-support...

I wouldn't give them a snowball's chance in Hell against the Parachute Regiment operating without support of any kind (hell, in LA it wouldn't even need ammo re-supply drops!) and there are only 2,500 of them compared with, say, what the Soviets, sorry, Russians could put on the ground.

Where i live in Europe it is not hard at all to get a gun license. And i do not regret owning a gun. There where times when was interested in getting a license but i found the sound guns make really ugly and obnoxious.
If i own one it will definitely have a silencer on it. But first i need to want one, what will not happen any time soon.
Guns do not play a big role in an average Europeans day, except if you are Austrian.
I guess why Americans have so much gun trouble is because they are scared of them! Buy a gun to not get shot by a gun.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by mattguy404

 

Thanks for replying Matt!

Although I am not sure if you actually answered my questions?

Maybe you did.

but in that situation, I'd be getting ready to greet them while flying the red flag.

So you are saying, in this situation, you would want a firearm, right?

I probably didn't answer it.

No, in that situation, I'd probably be more prepared to straight-up surrender than kill someone for a lost cause.

I used the China example because that's the only perceivable 'threat' I could really think of...

We have about 70% of the world's uranium reserves and a vast amount of unpopulated land, but I don't think they'd invade for that.

Australia has pretty good relations with China - our Prime Minister even speaks Mandarin, so I'm not worried about the situation at all.

Originally posted by scooterstrats
Whats your point? I am a very successful game hunter who has never shot another hunter because I "thought he looked tasty". i am not a murderer or let alone a cannibal. Really, what even perversed you to suggest anyone would do this? Not normal logic IMO.

what about unsuccesful hunters, who simply own guns for self defense.
my point started from where the OP was saying the possibility of civil unrest was a reason to own guns.

im simply pointing out guns are not just for defense. and they are the worse possible things to be in abundence during times of civil unrest, especially if that links to hard economic times.

reply to post by HowlrunnerIV


Thank you for that well thought out and articulated post

Unfortunately I see that I failed to convey the scenario the way I had intended it.

When I used the word 'Invasion' I had meant it in the full extent of its meaning. In other words, enemy troops are in your face, regardless. In this scenario, you can't just keep to yourself so to speak. You and your family are being invaded, not just your Government.

And no, I do not think armed civilians stand a chance against a military force. Whether it is US or OZ citizens. But succeeding is not part of my question.

In the the event I just illustrated, would you and your neighbors want firearms?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
A hypothetical question for our European and Aussie friends...

Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?.... in the event of a US invasion? (or another)

If you were invaded by an opposing military force. And these men were walking around shooting your neighbors. Would you be entirely comfortable with the fact that the only ones on your side with firearms would be your own military? In this hypothetical event, would you not want a firearm while you are trying to protect your family and friends?

Why would anyone want to invade Britain? Our massive manufacturing facilities? The abundance of natural resources? Our weather? The vast expanses of untouched and uninhabited land ready for land-hungry oppressors to build holiday homes?

If foreign troops parachuted into my street, I'd be out there with within minutes with a pot of tea, an A-Z map and directions to the continent.

One lump or two?

Originally posted by enlighten2012

Originally posted by meadowfairy
Blackops thanks for correcting this.

What Australians know of Americans is only what they see on tv and on movies and automatically assume everything there is bad.


We have been indoctrinated not to look at things from all angles. 20-30 years ago Australians were smart now the media are dumbing them down.

speak for yourself
i have been to america a few times and have seen with my own eyes that things there are bad.

and Op.... there goes american arrogance again thinking we are 'jealous' of you for the right to own arms....are you kidding!

no-one i know owns a firearm and no one i know would want to own a firearm.

Americans tend to be alittle paranoid and seem to have too much fear instilled in them sadly. To think if your guns laws are changed that you’ll loose total rights as citizens....please.

as someone has said....its people who kill people not the guns so maybe you should be pushing for a better health system to help the demented people who kill on your streets everyday rather than gun rights.

you will have a new president in a few weeks time and no you wont have to go hunt your own food and no people wont be randomly shooting in the streets... you watch waaaaay to much t.v

and by the way.... its not like there is not a gun in sight in australia. certain guns are available with a license.

Speak for yourself. Australians are no different to Americans from what i see. You visited certain areas that are bad but not all areas are bad.

The fight against who is better is just stupid. Australian education system has declined as much as the Americans. Its obvious Australians cant admit that so they target the very country they support on tv and dress like on tv and act like on tv. Will Australians admit they have been dumbed down and follow every fashion the tv tells them and eat like the tv and dress like the tv. Im sorry to say but i see no difference in that respect.

Whether you like it or not there is still violence in Australia with or without guns. Every week we here of rapes and peadophilia. Take your rose coloured glasses off. There are bad areas here aswell except that most are likely to do robberies. Robberies in Australia is higher then any other country. We fear our lives here too and lock our cars and door cause we know someoone might rob or rape us. Oh by the way we dont even let our children play outside incase they get abducted as has been the case here many times. Get your head out of your ...

Australians have killed the most backpapers then europe but we still cry like babies and blame europe for one person dying. Australians have a hard time looking in their own backyard.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]


[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

Originally posted by Perseus Apex
reply to post by lifeform

 

But if one chooses to look for a 'target' he will more than likely bypass Mr. Joe and look for Mr. PO in ammo. It's a natural law that if one walks and talks like a duck he will be treated like a duck....and you have no wings.

I wish we could all join hands and sing Hallelluyahh..though there is a much darker horse operating behind the scenes than of most are unaware. If you want to know more...see prior posts here on ATS. I'm here for good 'reason' though no need to rehash on this thread. Off topic.

Now as far as the 'other' hunting methods you mention; you can throw rocks and spears at the critters....perhaps make pitfalls with spikes and be 'creative' otherwise though if you see me walking with a shotgun/rifle...I guarantee you I'll be seen as your new friend.



[edit on 29-10-2008 by Perseus Apex]

i'm unsure if i'd see you as a friend or a threat. but if i did see you as a friend it would only be short term, unless you think during times of civil unrest and the goverment clamping down they will leave all the gun shops open for buisness.

i'll stick to growing things, and learning how to make hunting tools/traps etc. using available natural resources. our ancestors were brilliant at it. i'd rather have a few fishing hooks than a gun.

Originally posted by mattguy404
No, in that situation, I'd probably be more prepared to straight-up surrender than kill someone for a lost cause. .

Assuming you are a father figure in this scenario. Then I am also assuming you are the protector (stereotypes aside atm hehe) of your lover and children.

So surrendering yourself would also in affect be surrendering them as well. You decision is still the same?

What if one of your kids was shot (hypothetical scenario!)?

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Merriman Weir


MW, for the sake of a tangible discussion about my questions, I was hoping we could pretend the pretense was true. That for whatever reason, however unlikely, you have been invaded.

Lucid its funny and i have to wonder when the time comes for people to defend themselves what will they do, probably regret they listened to mainstream media.

They obviously dont know the difference between protection and dislike of armament. Everyone hates guns but tis there and useful intimes of trouble.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Some would, some wouldn't.

When I was single, Hell, yes, arm me.

After I was married, Hell, yes, arm me.

After I had kids, Hell, no, don't arm me. Dying gloriously (and perhaps not too bloodily) in defence of an already compromised Australian territorial integrity is so much less important than being alive to try and keep my kids alive. A father cowering and holding his kids is far less likely to be shot than a raging lunatic. Can I handle the humiliation? You betcha if my kids still have a chance of waking up tomorrow.

See, until I have a gun pointed at me (I have had, long story), I won't know how I'll react. How would I react if, for the sake of example, a TNI soldier was "clearing" my street and house? I have no idea. I'm wondering what I would still be doing in my house. How about if it's a Kopassus soldier? I see no cowardice in huddling on the floor trying to protect my kids.

However, if we're talking about a Balkans-type situation where the Serbs [insert Asian example here] are separating the Aussie men and boys from the women and girls or are simply going house to house and killing or burning then I am going to be armed to defend myself, my family, my people and my nation from the invaders.

Because you're talking about a situation where passivity guaranteed death, not life. But, in wars involving western nations, that is the exception, not the norm.

A firearm can help defending you or somebody else in some specific situations, but against a SWAT team raiding your house or the National guard rounding up people, it's pretty much useless. Even if you kill or harm a few agents, they'll send 10 times more agents to get rid of you. Remember taht Waco ranch thing and the freedom fighters farmers in the '90s? Yes, this is how it ended... massive squashing of a too-tightly localized resistance.

People living in bubbles are simply too weak against government forces, no matter if they got guns or not. Only through unity can people defend themselves efficiently against an oppressor of any kind.



[edit on 29/10/08 by Echtelion]

The biggest weapon against a dishonest Government is not a gun. Whether or not you have a gun or whether or not the laws of our countries allow it, the Government's artillery will always beat the civilian's. You may postpone the inevitable by 5 mins but they will, in the end, outgun you. It won't work. A bullet is a bullet - but who do you kill? That's what guns do. It won't work.

In my humble opinion, our biggest weapon is the knowledge right at our fingertips. Our computer and the internet. Knowledge is power. Not a gun.

Imagine a YouTube posting showing the secrets to creating free energy that anyone can understand and create at home. This sort of knowledge in the minds of the common man is far far more powerful than any gun. That's when corrupt governments around the world will simply self-destruct.

I hear there is an epidemic of stabbings in the UK.
Correct me if I am wrong but, If the Chav that was coming to cut you saw you pull out a 45, would he change his mind about making you the next stabbing victim?

Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
I for one will not submit to the government taking my rights.

How?
.

You really attack people in this forum. The op was simply asking a question. I live in MO and i think we should be allowed to keep our guns. But this forum was not meant for Americans it was meant for the European and Aussie friends. Smash me if you like but I am right. I think the guns and video games have nothing to do with it. It is a conscious choice to pull a trigger. Bang Bang. Me i like to go out in my back your and blow something up. I also know that I myself am not mature enough to own a gun at this point in my life so i dont. I would be one of those stupid dangerous people, because i act before thinking. It is people like me that are the cause.

[edit on 10/29/2008 by CrashGecko]

I didn't read all the posts,i didn't have the courage to do so.

Once again i see this kind of...things in ATS.

You are 100% right to be annoyed by the criticism from others about americans owning weapons,getting ready for times of chaos etc etc
In the other hand though,me,personally,i am sick and tired reading from time to time in here about european countries being enslaved (without us knowing offcourse because we're that stupid),being defenseless victims and being very dumb for not having weapons (oh and some times,some of us are reptilians also...!niiiiice.... )

Ok,here's what i'm gonna do,i'm gonna give two answers.

The reply i'd normally give:
I like guns but not in a gun-nut way.For a short period of time i even was thinking to find a club to join,to shoot at targets and that kind of stuff.That's just it though.
I didn't give up any right of that kind neither i want it.If a law will come up about civilians being able to posses guns like they're candy i'll vote against it like there's no tomorrow.
I'm sorry that i don't feel threatened,i'm sorry that i don't live my life in fear and maybe paranoia too and i'm really sorry that especially these very times not only i'm not afraid of our own army but my faith to them couldn't be more solid and my heart couldn't possibly feel any more warmer than it does when i see our army being ready for anything.
As for the police,i don't bother them,they don't bother me.Couldn't be more simple.

If i'd come to live in the US or any other country where everybody have guns then,yes,i'd surely give it some serious thought about getting a weapon and probably i would buy one.
The thing is,till this very day in my life,i never thought of buying a gun,i never felt that i need a gun and i'd really hate to have a "right" like that.


Answer No 2,probably this one would be more popular for many members in here:

I feel horrible,they took away our guns...!Soon enough they'll be busting in our houses to take us a God knows why and what they'll do to us...!We're just waiting to get slaughtered!This is no way of living...!!Please help us!!Bomb us or something...!! (sorry for the last one but i couldn't stop myself )


Sorry for being sarcastic but like i said,i'm really annoyed by these things either you'll justify me or not.

Anyway,i allready gave two different answers so,to everyone who reads my post,pick the one you preffer and take care because,indeed,i posted my opinion in this thread but that doesn't mean that i'll also discuss something like this.I've allready said enough about it i believe.

Originally posted by deathhasnosound
I hear there is an epidemic of stabbings in the UK.
Correct me if I am wrong but, If the Chav that was coming to cut you saw you pull out a 45, would he change his mind about making you the next stabbing victim?

yes he would, but then he would feel a need to carry a gun instead due to the fact his knife is insignificant to the guns people are carrying. therefore the next encounter will result in a shooting not a stabbing.