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A question for our European and Aussie friends...Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?

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posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:24 AM
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Riggs what are the gun laws like in Canada?

Lifeform we can keep quoting all day so lets agree to disagree.

Just one thing even though those people that work in government are people they are working for the common people and the government is there because of the people and to keep civil laws amongst them. The government rely on the people in order to be in the position they are in and in power. Im sure you vote or protest when need be? Unfortunately what you dont realise is that thye are more likely to help big business then you and money from big business makes or breaks them.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]




posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by scooterstrats
Less than one week ago, I was threatened by an obvious looney who exhibited road rage. The incident was his fault, but we stopped, he left his vehicle to accost me. I remained cool as I had done nothing (couldnt leave as he had cut my car off in font of me and stopped). I let him rant for a moment, as I dont care about that. Then he turned back and raced towards my car and threatened to , and I quote, "bash my head in". As he approached closer to my window, he noticed the .45 ACP in my hand resting on the passenger seat, then turned back, without a word, and got back in his car and drove away. I did not menace him, I did not provoke anything. I simply showed I was ready to deal with an unbalanced person if I needed to. No shots needed to be fired. The presence of a self defense instrument was enough to send him scurrying back to his vehicle. It could have been easily another shooting that people who dont understand self preservation cant comprehend , but I am thankful it ended without having to fire the weapon. Think about it.....


your right, it's a good job he did'nt have a gun. people with tempers do silly things. i find counting to 10 helps when i am angery. it helps to clam you down so you don't say/do anything silly.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:31 AM
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reply to post by lifeform
 


A man dieing of starvation? Pretty sure I saw dozens of them sitting around the streets of Sydney on the weekend when I visited. Poverty and starvation is not a new thing. There is plenty of it in both Australia AND other countries.

I do agree with you however, on the mini-war and gang scenarios as a result in total break down of society. You should see a movie called 'Doomsday', it depicts this very well. People converting back to a more savage state due to social unrest.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:33 AM
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A hypothetical question for our European and Aussie friends...

Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?.... in the event of a US invasion? (or another)

If you were invaded by an opposing military force. And these men were walking around shooting your neighbors. Would you be entirely comfortable with the fact that the only ones on your side with firearms would be your own military? In this hypothetical event, would you not want a firearm while you are trying to protect your family and friends?



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:37 AM
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the issue of guns is the story of Pandora's box. There are so many out there, no government could ever hope to recover the majority of working guns in the world.

If you don't believe in gun laws, maybe someday your wife or daughter will be raped in front of your eyes or you will be the victim of violence, when you could have defended your right to exist peacefully. We live in the physical world, with real consequences to actions. So guns may seem obsolete, petty or unnecessary to people who have no grasp on reality.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:41 AM
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reply to post by lifeform
 


You're right . The cat was obviously out of his mind, but there was no need to lower myself to his level. He "saw the light", and I had no reason to use any force.
No wild west mentality at play here. If other countries are appalled by this innocent act of self preservation, God help them in the same situation. This is reality in the US. If you dont live here, dont pretend to understand, and then dont condemn what you cant possibly know about.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:42 AM
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reply to post by BlackOps719
 


America and Europe are radically different cultures, more than people realise.
I am in the UK and have also spent a lot of time in the USA (and France, Germany, Holland, Italy, Spain...) – The USA is a very different place – and that relates directly to this issue.
Owning a gun here would be of no help or benefit whatsoever.
- Would not really be of help if one was mugged, kicking the mugger in the b*lls is as effective - gangs are a bigger issue....
- If one has an intruder, one has to be careful or oneself can be imprisoned for harming the intruder (which is stupid but the case) – only if the intruder attacks you can one respond in “self defence”
- There is no land to go hunting on unless a part of private club or organised event –

Also life is very different, which reflects on this – examples....
Here one just can go for a walk down the road, through the city, through the country etc no issue, and unless one goes into a few specific “trouble areas”, it is very very safe; in the USA just going for a walk in many places is considered strange and dangerous – I was picked up by the police once in the USA for going for a walk, they were nice about it when they realised I was British, and explained than one just does not do it there......
Here, car central locking, locks the car to protect from theft, and people are more concerned about getting out of buildings in case of emergency rather than being locked in (except a night). My experience of the USA is that cars lock you in whilst travelling to protect oneself from attack and hotels etc almost paranoid to tell you to lock oneself in etc all the time....

Basically the expectation and demanded right here in the uk – is that one can walk down any street and go any public place in total safety – that is the expectation and public demand, nothing short of that is good enough, and the public outcry is very strong here if that fails – governments will have a public revolt if we do not have the freedom to go around in freedom and safety – it is a big big issue. – it is why the government is so worried about the political impact of knife crime., and feel they have to tackle it.
My experience of the USA is very different – firstly there is dramatically more land, open space and places where people can “lurk”. The expectation everywhere seems to be one of “fear of being attacked” , lock oneself in etc, do not walk (drive instead), and so on – everywhere I have been there is this “watch ones back” culture which is very different to here... Only in a few “dodgy areas” is it like that here, and mostly one simply avoids them....
Another example, especially further North in the Uk it is normal (and expected) to talk to strangers whilst out and about, whether travelling, shopping, on the beach, in the countryside.... (get very odd responses in London though!) - Talking to strangers (or smile at anyone) in New Jersey USA– well people seem to panic that you are going to attack them or something.... that’s my experience anyway ...

The Gun issue and difference in need and attitudes is directly embedded in the fundamental difference in the cultures. And I cannot see either changing



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:46 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


US invasion? Lordy, I hope not!


I'd say we're pretty much already the 51st state in the Pacific, so no worries there.

Depends on who was doing the invading - I guess it would obviously be China (which is extremely hypothetical).

China - 1.3 billion people

Australia - a shave over 22 million

I don't know if any of my fellow Aussies would be armed, but in that situation, I'd be getting ready to greet them while flying the red flag.

The numbers just aren't in Australia's favor, even if all 22 million were armed, we'd be completely swamped.

There's surrendering, and then there's just being intelligent.


[edit on 29-10-2008 by mattguy404]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:49 AM
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Blackops

Never had a gun, never wanted a gun and never been in a situation where I have needed one.

*sorry bit off topic*
It's funny but over here in Germany, we seem to have more "freedom" then our brothers and sisters over the pond, tho as an English man living in Germany, I wouldn't go back to England to live, there it's getting worse than in America, you can go nowhere in a city without being constantly filmed by cctv.

Magna Carta and the American Bill of Rights are dead as a door nail.
*back to topic*




posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by scooterstrats
 

By the way. legally owned and with legal carry permit. Not to mention trained by 20 years of use, and also trained at one time by the US Army Marksmanship Training Unit.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by meadowfairy
Riggs what are the gun laws like in Canada?

Lifeform we can keep quoting all day so lets agree to disagree.

Just one thing even though those people that work in government are people they are working for the common people and the government is there because of the people and to keep civil laws amongst them. The government rely on the people in order to be in the position they are in and in power. Im sure you vote or protest when need be? Unfortunately what you dont realise is that thye are more likely to help big business then you and money from big business makes or breaks them.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]


i realise more than you seem to be aware what the situation is looking like more and more by the day. you say yourself big business makes or brakes them and that they help big business rather than you or me.

so what makes you think they need the people? from what i see they are ditching the people, the people are the last thought when it comes to needing us.

also if they need the people why would you need guns to defend against them?



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 03:00 AM
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I'm not one to argue with statistics. I don't mind not owning a gun, in fact I think most of the people in my country agrees. Maybe the right to own a gun has created the need to own one, because of a fear that the neighbour, who has one might use it against you. we don't have that. Of course there will always be gun related crimes, you can't avoid that by a ban. There's always some douchebag who can't see beyond the tip of the nose.

And if one ever say that the high gun related death rate is higher because of a bigger population, I don't buy it.

answers.google.com...

there's some links beyond this to other sources..



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by scooterstrats
reply to post by lifeform
 


You're right . The cat was obviously out of his mind, but there was no need to lower myself to his level. He "saw the light", and I had no reason to use any force.
No wild west mentality at play here. If other countries are appalled by this innocent act of self preservation, God help them in the same situation. This is reality in the US. If you dont live here, dont pretend to understand, and then dont condemn what you cant possibly know about.


i think you misunderstand. my point is simple, whilst your gun protected you and you was within your rights to protect yourself, if he had owned a gun aswell the situation could of been different.

he had a temper, tempers and guns do not mix. i dread to think of what could of happened if you both had a gun or his was bigger than yours, or if he just started shooting. or if the person in your situation was not as calm headed as you and got scared by his behaviour.

the best situation would always be nobody owns guns. fist against fist if need be. self defence classes is all that is needed in a society without guns.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 03:02 AM
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Hi There,

I believe the issue of contention regarding the 2nd Amendment and the 'right to bear arms' has to be placed within its historical context. The reasons for having such a 'right' clearly existed at the time of its origin; the question needs to be asked...do such reasons still exist?

The idea to 'resist' government by arms is a 'last resort' tactic, but in modern-day parlance, stands about as much chance of succeeding as a ice cube in hell not thawing. So, the 'resistor' can go out in a blaze of glory upon a principle of fighting for one's rights. Were a revolution to occur in the US today, you would see overwhelming force used against militias and individuals, causing so much damage to the social fabric that America would literally implode upon itself...clearly it is not an option.

I believe the historical course of the ideology taken by the Founders regarding the right to bear arms has over the years become something of a unwarranted twisting of the 'right'. At the time of its conceiving, it was both a 'necessity' and a 'essential' for the stabilisation and growth of the 'new' country of America, but the hoped-for idea for the founders was that such a 'right' might one day not be required, that American society would establish itself through non-corrupt government into a peaceful and benign citizenry...clearly, no such establishment has taken place, certainly not throughout the whole of American society. Truth is, America is not a united country, far from it. It consists of pockets of ideologies bearing diametric principles to each other, and merely refer to the Contitution for convenience of argument to their more insular and indifferent claims for self-autonomy outside mainstream American society...other countries have their equal disparity within their own societies.

The real issue about America's 'gun-right' is not about the gun itself, but about the mind that refers to the gun like a child would a comfort blanket, that the thought of being without a gun breeds paranoia and fear. The claim that it is better to have a gun and not need it, rather than not have a gun and need it, is the paranoid fear of a immature distrustful mind. It is a irrational rationale that warps the claim into a sembalance of 'right-thinking', that sexes it up as to being somehow both prudent and defensible. It is neither, it merely builds a porcelain society full of cracks, ready to shatter at the first real attempt to become a benign society.

Nevertheless, the 2nd Amendment is a 'right', and my argument does not take task with it, but takes task with the continued requirement for it to remain a right. The arguments for and against it are as diverse as the ideologies that exercise the right, so the debate will rage on and on. My thinking is, if you want to bear arms as exercised by your amendment, by all means go for it, just don't try to justify it as being anything other than a placebo to one's own paranoia and fear. If you feel safe having a gun, then you are sadly deluding yourself as to the meaning of safety.

Best wishes



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 03:13 AM
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No, I don't regret giving up my "right" to own guns. I have done no such thing.

What you, BlackOps, appear to misunderstand about the situation in Australia is that Australians have never specifically had a legal right to own the kinds of guns that feature regularly in US news stories. Australians have never had a specific right to own automatic pistols or submachine guns. We have definitely never had a right to own assault rifles.

What Australians have had a trditional history of owning are hunting rifles or military rifles turned to hunting purposes. The vast majority of gun owners in Australia have either owned shotguns or single-shot rifles (or both). The minority of gun owners (but the most vocal) were the ones who owned Garands, SLRs, SKSs and the like. My father owned a Mauser K98, a 1918 Lee-Enfield and an SKS (full bore) and a Winchester lever-action, Brno bolt-action, Remington bolt-action .22 (small bore) and a (I think) Beretta semi-auto .22 (as well as a nearly useless .22 magnum.) He only ever owned 3 at any one time.

He also owned a compound bow, long before Stallone made them popular among teenage boys.

He was perfectly happy to hand some of these in come the amnesty and legally sell others when we no longer lived in the bush.

If you go back to the late-'80s there was a very big gun debate in Victoria and NSW. The crux of the matter was the removal of high-calibre automatic and semi-automatic rifles and semi-auto and pump-action shotguns. As in the US a certain sector of "political" life chose to completely distort the (state) governments' proposals.

This debate come immediately after the following incidents:

Hoddle Street massacre

Queen Street Massacre

There had also been this earlier, well-reported, incident:

Bandidos vs Commancheros in a public car-park

By the time Prt Arthur came around the vast majority of the public, which has never owned weapons in its life, was perfectly happy for the ownership of guns to be further restricted. You see, we don't have a small-arms industry, we don't have hundreds of thousand of people employed producing weapons or ammunition, we have never had a history of owning guns. You cannot "give up" what you have never had.

If you total up the figures from the three links, you get less than thirty dead. Perhaps it is instructive to realise that thirty dead, from a population of nearly 20 MILLION, was enough of a shock for the majority of the population to demand greater gun control.

THAT should tell you about the history of gun ownership, gun violence and gun deaths in Australia.

Not even in the days of the Bushrangers (which ended with Ned Kelly and here also) did the average person own a handgun.

And that was the nearest thing we ever had to a Wild West.

I guess one of the great advantages we have is that everything imported to our island has to come over the ocean on a boat or a plane. Makes it much easier to check. Including guns. Especially guns, because we don't make them ourselves, except at Lithgow and those are 100% for Federal use (by people in green clothes). And the average Aussie apparently trusts the Australian army far more than the average American appears to trust the US Army (or Marine Corps) given how regularly US-posters talk about the need to defend themselves against the federal government (in a near-future meltdown of society, freedoms or both)

So for us to pass new gun laws after each massacre that tighten the use, abuse and distribution of guns is pretty easy.

Which is why so many Aussies can only look at Blacksburg and say "Which part, exactly, didn't you idiots get about Columbine?"

On a different note, as I am currently resident extra australis, I don't really feel the need to defend myself against Rudd. However, I am living in a post-conflict nation where gun violence is considerably higher than in Australia, where the carrying of weapons in public has massively decreased since the end of the conflict, where the cops are so incompetent they carry pistols when off-duty, when drinking (which may or may not be done off-duty) and have a tendency to enforce their lager orders with 9 by 19 millimetres of lead.

When the vast majority of gun crimes are committed by the states moronic representatives for no other reason than they are stupid, you get a whole new perspective on gun control.

Which is why I shall be purchasing a shiny new compound bow to defend my house in the village.

Did I mention that I've used a bow since I was 9?

Plus, there is no way my 4-year old son can kill himself with a weapon that needs 75+ pounds of pull-back.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 03:17 AM
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reply to post by BlackOps719
 


There are millions of rabbits in the Scottish Highlands that could use some 'hunting'. Too much fox hunting?

One point that goes unnoticed in this thread is how a family is to support itself when the paper currencies of the world are seen as they are...paper backed by nothing other than faith in one's govt. to pay the interest on it's outstanding debt before the International banksters take over the rest of the worlds assets. Off topic here though 2009 will be a whole other world (internationally) though by 'design'.

In the near future, many will need firearms to feed their families. It's too bad hunting skills have been lost to shopping carts. People today are bred consumers dependent on the luxeries we're so accustomed to today.

There is too much to say on this topic though it never hurts to be prepared. This is a can of worms that I don't care to open though hear ye hear ye...NO ones taking my guns. It's one's fundamental 'right' to defend and support oneself and their family.

The same ones taking your guns are the same ones that have em. NO human being can be entrusted with that kind of power. One can Pepper/Mace spray all they like though a gun has an ultimatum.

Peace in any society can only be 'maintained' by 'checks and balances'. When the monetary system fails.....one will be knocking on the door of Joe Shotgun.

I'm American though 'currently' in Central America. I can tell you first hand that any kind of 'Martial Law' is absolutely out of the question here in America since so many own guns and are not afraid to use them if necessary. The govt. knows this and ex-military as well as current military would never fire on their own citizens for a govt. taken hostage by the International bankster cartel puppet masters. The uninformed in the military would eventually be 'informed' of the truth and that's the last thing the PTB want to happen. They're walking a very tight rope and we're watching their every step. Don't trip.

BlackOps 719, as you know, I've always liked your posts and am with you in the struggle to defy ignorance. My reply above is for the general audience.

Peace Brethren? Don't let the PTB divide and conquer you. Stand united when necessary and take care people.




[edit on 29-10-2008 by Perseus Apex]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 03:28 AM
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reply to post by lifeform
 

Well, he had no weapon visible other than his mouth. If he had something under his jacket, I defused the situation without saying a word. I can't speculate as you are that he had a weapon. I negated any threat to myself peacefully. Upon seeing I was not about to be harmed, he retreated without a word. If you want to take the scenario a step further, he would never had enough time to threaten me with a concealed weapon. I wont apologize for defending myself.
Or should I have laid down for a physical assault, as he was initially intent on? I chose not to get beaten.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 03:28 AM
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reply to post by mattguy404
 


Thanks for replying Matt!

Although I am not sure if you actually answered my questions?
Maybe you did.


but in that situation, I'd be getting ready to greet them while flying the red flag.


So you are saying, in this situation, you would want a firearm, right?



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by lifeform

Originally posted by meadowfairy
Riggs what are the gun laws like in Canada?

Lifeform we can keep quoting all day so lets agree to disagree.

Just one thing even though those people that work in government are people they are working for the common people and the government is there because of the people and to keep civil laws amongst them. The government rely on the people in order to be in the position they are in and in power. Im sure you vote or protest when need be? Unfortunately what you dont realise is that thye are more likely to help big business then you and money from big business makes or breaks them.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]


i realise more than you seem to be aware what the situation is looking like more and more by the day. you say yourself big business makes or brakes them and that they help big business rather than you or me.

so what makes you think they need the people? from what i see they are ditching the people, the people are the last thought when it comes to needing us.

also if they need the people why would you need guns to defend against them?


Is that really even a question. They are giving people the illusion of protection and governance, people help the big business(consumerism) and inturn big business pays the president to keep their laws. They need the people to be ignorant. They need people because that is why they have been established in the first place in order to have power over them and enslave them. How can that work if they just ditch all of us.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 03:40 AM
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"In the near future, many will need firearms to feed their families. It's too bad hunting skills have been lost to shopping carts. People today are bred consumers dependent on the luxeries we're so accustomed to today. "

there are so many things you can hunt with other than guns. the ideal thing would be something that is in abundence and dos'nt require a factory or shop inorder to obtain the parts that do the killing(bullets).

with guns most people will just think "its easier to take his" or "well i suck at hunting, i'm starving, he looks tasty" and take you out from a distance without you even being aware they are there, without guns that is harder to acheive.



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