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the whole UFO UN disclosure thing is crap.

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posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:46 PM
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Folks this is another reason why the UFO research field today is considered "fringe",
"psuedo science" and peple often look at us as tinfoil hatters.

People are willing to believe anything, even when thee isnt a cintilla of evidence but there is reason to call it into question, as in this story.

As far as the nature of this hoax, disclosure, this isnt the first time this happened. not at all. every now and again when ever a media outlet does a story on UFOs there is someone who will allege that theres a covert disclosure program going on. Everyone thought it was gonna happen during clinton. there were all inds of theories and "people in the know" but nothing ever happened. Some predicted disclosur in the year 2000. Nope.
The fact is there is no evidence to support any of these, yet they spread like wild fire and people swallow them hook line and sinker.
Hoaxers and liars publish books, to make money off these sort of things.

UFO hoaxes have become to easy for people to do a perpetrate now.
ANother reason why UFO research hs gone down hill is the invovlement of all this spirituality crap. People who claim they channel alien souls. Or that alien abductions are done to raise our level of consciousness. or that the aliens are here to warn us or save our planet. all this baseless mysticism makes honest UFO research look really foolish due to guilt by association.

Zetatalk.com, "the federation of light", the ashtar command... what the #?

or the disclosure project by stphen greer who alleges that the government wants to use the false threat of alien invasion to weaponize space.


things are going down hill, because often i see in this arena people refuse to think critically. They hear this big story, and want to believe it so much that they ignore any argument to the contrary. for UFO research to regain the ground it once had, the time when 70 percent of americans believed the government was hiding things, to the time when there was a wide spread interest in the topic, UFO research needs to get back to basics, a true scientific research and examine the data, and reach a conclusion, even if it is one we werent expecting.





[edit on 29-10-2008 by NavalFC]




posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
reply to post by NavalFC
 


Once again what was your point?

Specialty waivers are listed in the US NAVY regs. Makes perfect sense. What does it matter that every person has a specialilty. A WAIVER is an exception and id imagine an exception applied for under ground of specialty would probably be under the grounds that they couldnt afford to lose him or her at that time, or were under manned in that specialty, same as in any other waiver condition.

You swear a lot but you dont seem to rationalise anything.

As for being an officer, yes there are sevral ways you can become an officer, you can apply for it, you can be recommended for it, you can be field promoted, any of the three can happen with or without a degree.

You can also complete colledge degree modules while serving which count for it?

Do you KNOW the mans educational status? Do you have any way to assert that in all those years he couldnt very reasonably and very easily achieved the qualifications he needed while serving? No, you dont know ANY of the facts.

Again, theres nothing you are stating here which proves or debunks those facts. He COULD very easily have done all the things stated.



"Again, theres nothing you are stating here which proves or debunks those facts. He COULD very easily have done all the things stated. [/quote"

stated? half the # your saying wasnt even stated anywhere! you are trying to fill in missing details that arent there to try and explain this story. and you know why they arent there? Because this story is bull#.
Most of the crap you have put out there is not mentioned anywhere in the story, while the stuff i have been attacking WAS mentioned.


I never claimed to know the mans educational status, I only said if he is an electronics warfare speciasit he isnt a officer.

"You can also complete colledge degree modules while serving which count for it?"
even if you get a degree, you still need to go to OCS, unless you graduated from the Naval academy.


Field promotions? A US navy captain can not commission someone to a officer status. captains have the powerto meritoriously advance personnel, but not onto seperate pay scales! he cant go up to a Petty Officer 2nd class and say "shazzam! your an ensign" doesnt work that way.

"underground specialty" thats a load of crap. That sounds like a nutty conspiracy thing.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by NavalFC
 


Actually nobody has said the "believe it". What most people have said is YOU havent derailed it.

If you want to debunk it fine, find a valid and genuine reason and do so, all you have done is make aesthetic points and curse and swear and insist it proves your case, im sorry but it doesnt prove your case, all it shows me is that you are not credible.

Whether or not the persons story was true, I wouldnt know, I havent paid any attention to it and im sure those investigating the truth of the matter will come to their own conclusions in time.

This doesnt mean your statements have disproven anything.

Your statements are little more than disinformation designed to destroy his case, not a valid disproving of a point.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by NavalFC
 


It didnt say he had hair, or two legs but yes im assuming thats possible. Im not stating he DID im stating he COULD easily have had and with that being the case your points do NOT rule out his validity. Thats really as simple as it gets.

YOU are the one trying to prove categorically a point and im simply pointing out you dont have the information to do so, theres a perfectly easy simple way all of that there could be true.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
reply to post by NavalFC
 


Actually nobody has said the "believe it". What most people have said is YOU havent derailed it.

If you want to debunk it fine, find a valid and genuine reason and do so, all you have done is make aesthetic points and curse and swear and insist it proves your case, im sorry but it doesnt prove your case, all it shows me is that you are not credible.

Whether or not the persons story was true, I wouldnt know, I havent paid any attention to it and im sure those investigating the truth of the matter will come to their own conclusions in time.

This doesnt mean your statements have disproven anything.

Your statements are little more than disinformation designed to destroy his case, not a valid disproving of a point.


actually you did say believe it in one pst of yours.

DISinformation? Ok thats a load of crap. Nothing I have said is disinformation. Everything I have said regarding the Navy , the Uniforms, how it is set up is FACT. I did email the CRNS and thats there reply FACT.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
dis⋅in⋅for⋅ma⋅tion   /dɪsˌɪnfərˈmeɪʃən, ˌdɪsɪn-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dis-in-fer-mey-shuhn, dis-in-] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun false information, as about a country's military strength or plans, publicly announced or planted in the news media, esp. of other countries.


Nothing I said was false You are the one who wants to assume the UK and US navies are eactly the same and news flash for you THEY ARENT.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
reply to post by NavalFC
 


It didnt say he had hair, or two legs but yes im assuming thats possible. Im not stating he DID im stating he COULD easily have had and with that being the case your points do NOT rule out his validity. Thats really as simple as it gets.

YOU are the one trying to prove categorically a point and im simply pointing out you dont have the information to do so, theres a perfectly easy simple way all of that there could be true.



"It didnt say he had hair, or two legs but yes im assuming thats possible. Im not stating he DID im stating he COULD easily have had and with that being the case your points do NOT rule out his validity. Thats really as simple as it gets."
This is not the same thing and you damn well know it. We could easily infer this fact from the fact that hes A HUMAN #ING BEING.
and my points do rule out his validity.

It would be like you trying to claim to be a Police officer in my town.
the cops here carry 9mm berettas.. but you tell me that you carry a .45
The details dont mesh up, therefore i could prove you were lying.

The details about the navy DO NOT mesh up to what they actually are.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:08 PM
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Ive never said I believed, feel free to review my posts. Just because im willing to play devils advocate doesnt mean im pro or against.

As it stands there are very few things I belive conretely, as there are few things I have conclusive reason to do so.

What I dont do it close my mind stamp my feet and tell the rest of the world they are living in fantasy when my own position coud be equally fantastic depending the perspective you choose to take.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:26 PM
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Look I'll try this one more time with a lot of reservations...

Naval:
You are basing your issues of the case on a civilian writing an article and trying to describe a meeting where an alleged Navy officer is presenting his credentials.

The problem is you are crucifying the Alleged Navy Officer based on the civilian's lack of understanding of proper Navy terminology and failing to explain how this officer's career is possible vs. what you know from your experience.

It's like comparing apples to oranges.

Hopefully Macabee will provide verification to Jeff, if he does so you'll then have to figure out how to impeach Macabee's Navy experience.

Maybe you're like me and you read "super fast" which causes you to miss a few fine points now and then. I apologize for insulting your reading comprehension. I may have given the impression I was questioning your intelligence which was not my intention. I was trained to speed read in grade school which causes me to miss certain details if I'm not careful. I also tend to write lengthy posts which can be difficult to read all the way through. For those things, I apologize.

You have skipped over a few fine details which call into question your analysis of the case. I'm not saying your wrong about it being BS, I'm just saying your missing the better reasons for wondering. It is my opinion that it is too soon to call the entire story BS, however. That rides almost entirely on my impression that Macabee met with and verified Source A. I do believe there is some agenda which wants UFO researchers to believe in this case, for what purpose is the big question.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by nfotech]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by nfotech
 


Bruce already verified the man "checked out", but stated to me that he assumes the credentials shown to him were the same as presented to others. I will have to check with him if I can post what else I was told. I've known Bruce for many years and I don't want to violate his trust. He's a good man.

I'll check with him and see if I can post his answers.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by jritzmann
 


Good deal, I'd be interested in "the rest of the story" on that one. Especially any explanation for the unusually long career thing Naval mentioned. I suspect the guy has been recalled out of reserves a few times, probably due to experience with some piece of gear or some special talent of some kind.

The Pickerings claim the ET's chose this guy specifically as their POC. If they were alleged to be Grays I'd wonder if he was an abductee or contactee prior to this (playing along for the moment). I've never heard any abduction stories involving the type of ET's said to be involved in this "first open contact" scenario though I did uncover a few stories of C3 events which involved these type of entities.

For reference - the ETs are said to be some sort of "blob" in a biosuit, are a silicon based life form and have a resting temperature hot enough to burn human skin. They can manipulate their form to emulate anyone or anything they want for short periods of time and are telepathic.

They are said to be amused at the "fragility" of humans as they are able to handle very high G loads and survive in space with no little or no life support. (Wasn't there a Star Trek plot with these creatures in it?) There are claims of secret, underground bases and contact with Tall Whites. The "sand" creatures are friendly to Earth, the Tall Whites nuetral and the Grays benign according to the plot of this one.

Supposedly, the sand creatures are here to help Earth right itself before we get to some critical point in our decline and require population control (no genocide, bioweapons or war allowed) as well as some other changes to our society which closely fit with the alleged goals of the New World Order. They offer free energy, advanced medical technology which will increase human lifespans (hence the need for population reductions and controls) and advanced farming / food production methods.

They are said to have given the PTB an ultimatum to disclose by 2013 or they will pull a Blossom Goodchild and park a large number of craft over every major city, blah, blah and blah.

Some think this is an experiment to see how the public reacts to the NWO agenda via the carrot with phase two to be the long whispered "alien invasion" scenario. My brief but exciting involvement convinced me there is some sort of psy-op going on.
1. The FOIA thing was suspicious, especially the strange way it ended.
2. The involvement by request of Source A of certain researchers, some credible, one with a perceived credibility problems, etc, etc.
3. The story itself, the very slow process and updates

Can the UFO and ET thing ever just "make sense"? Why does every alleged mass contact scenario have to be so weird as to approach "fantasy-land"?

Anyway, I think you know what I mean - I really need to work on the shorter post thing.

Every time I've referred a researcher to Macabee I tell them to get his written permission to post his replies and be specific, it's the type of procedure they used to teach journalist back when I was in school and SOP in the scientific research community. He's one of the few researchers in the field I like and he's earned the respect, IMO. I'm glad and not surprised to read you seem to feel the same way about him.




[edit on 30-10-2008 by nfotech]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 03:30 PM
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Well, well, well,

Let me take a wild guess, the OP (NavalFC)'s name is in fact Tim Pr----

Isn't it ?

If you are, I really enjoy what you do in Ufology, and if you are not who I think
you may be, Tim would be proud of you.


Cheers,
Europa aka Buck



[edit on 30-10-2008 by Europa733]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by nfotech
Look I'll try this one more time with a lot of reservations...

Naval:
You are basing your issues of the case on a civilian writing an article and trying to describe a meeting where an alleged Navy officer is presenting his credentials.

The problem is you are crucifying the Alleged Navy Officer based on the civilian's lack of understanding of proper Navy terminology and failing to explain how this officer's career is possible vs. what you know from your experience.

It's like comparing apples to oranges.

Hopefully Macabee will provide verification to Jeff, if he does so you'll then have to figure out how to impeach Macabee's Navy experience.

Maybe you're like me and you read "super fast" which causes you to miss a few fine points now and then. I apologize for insulting your reading comprehension. I may have given the impression I was questioning your intelligence which was not my intention. I was trained to speed read in grade school which causes me to miss certain details if I'm not careful. I also tend to write lengthy posts which can be difficult to read all the way through. For those things, I apologize.

You have skipped over a few fine details which call into question your analysis of the case. I'm not saying your wrong about it being BS, I'm just saying your missing the better reasons for wondering. It is my opinion that it is too soon to call the entire story BS, however. That rides almost entirely on my impression that Macabee met with and verified Source A. I do believe there is some agenda which wants UFO researchers to believe in this case, for what purpose is the big question.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by nfotech]



Some of the details could be given away as civilian not knowing such as the uniforms yes, but some cant, such as the officer claiming to be an electronics warfare specialist. Naval officers do not specialize, so even claiming to have a specialty puts question onto the claim.
But it does hwoeevr lend credence to the enlisted confused for officer story, seeing as how Electronics Warefare Specialist IS a enlisted specialty, ell it was until 2003-2004 when cryptological technicans took over their job and that specialty was eliminated.

Secondly Bruce Macabee simply "saying" hes met the guy isnt even proof. Until he can site specifics, ie: specific paygrade, specific billets, naval history, and a name then all it is is a baseless claim.
In essence hes saying "yea i got this source, but i cant tell you, though he is legit". that in concert with the fact that other parts of this strry, such as gilles lorant, and the several details (some maybe dismissible as civilian error, but others not so much, combined leads me tobelieve this is a hoax)

and the fact of the matter is like I said in another post, disclosure hoaxes like this have been getting popular since Clinton.

It seems like everytime the media runs a UFO story there is a burp somewhere in the UFO universe of people saying its disclosure time, which makes no sense at all..ws the media just supposd to otherwise ignore the event? As in the case of the UK MoD declassifying documents, theres a post on ere somewhere "UFO Disclosure is beginning" or something like that..in the post is a video of a newscast dealing with this.. how is running a UFO story evidence of intent to disclose? the media will run a story because its interesting. Were they just going to ignore the MoD story, unless it was part of a disclosure project? no they werent, the declassification was NEWS WORTHY and so they ran it.
It doesnt mean jack squat in itself about some UFO disclosure. If every disclosure hoax i have ever heard was true diclosure would have happened half a dozen times by now.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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Some of the details could be given away as civilian not knowing such as the uniforms yes, but some cant, such as the officer claiming to be an electronics warfare specialist. Naval officers do not specialize, so even claiming to have a specialty puts question onto the claim.
But it does hwoeevr lend credence to the enlisted confused for officer story, seeing as how Electronics Warefare Specialist IS a enlisted specialty, ell it was until 2003-2004 when cryptological technicans took over their job and that specialty was eliminated.


Yes but once again, since he claimed to join the Navy well before 2003, as ive said repeated times, he could easily have joined as Enlisted and been an Electronic Warfare Specialist.


Once again, you prove nothing, he said he showed and ALBUM proving he WAS (past tense, been through this before also) an Electronics Warfare Specialist, which yes, could easily have been true because it WAS a specialty during his years in the Navy.

The only thing in question here is your refusal to accept you have absolutely nothing to go on what so ever.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:36 AM
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great discussion in this thread.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by Europa733
Well, well, well,

Let me take a wild guess, the OP (NavalFC)'s name is in fact Tim Pr----

Isn't it ?

If you are, I really enjoy what you do in Ufology, and if you are not who I think
you may be, Tim would be proud of you.


Cheers,
Europa aka Buck



[edit on 30-10-2008 by Europa733]


Nope, my names not Tim. Im just tired of what the UFO research arena has descended into. Reliable information is hard to come buy, and no adays the UFO research field is filled with people swallong down what ever claims they can find and running with it. Its full of unsubstantiated claims that get passed around as if they were fact, full of hoaxes and liars out to make a quick buck. Its full of new agers preaching doom or salvation at the hands of some aliens whom they elevate to diety like status. its full of crazies who think they can channel and spirit communicate with aliens.
its gone to hell, and now adays the main stream has UFO research in a bad view. Now adays, UFO reseacrhers are included in the "tin foil hat" category because of the afforementioned.
UFO research needs to get back on track, the way it was in the 80s and 90s when Polls showed a majority of americans thought there was a UFO cover up. when national curiosity was high.
and UFO research needs to be put through the scrutiny of the scientific method. Thats also soemthing I see, when ever anyone is skeptical of some aspect of UFOs, people get pissed and bemoan the skeptic. But skepticism is needed. it is the scientific method, ideas are come up with and researched and go through a idealogical beating of testing experimentation and research and only if they survive this do they go on to something substantiated. but that isnt the way it is now a days.
I do a UFO search on google and i get new age pray to the aliens type sites, I get sites saying such and such president knew this of UFOs, without proof. I get sites saying the reptilians are trying to take over Earth. again without proof. you get the idea.

Disclosure itsnt going to come because the relatively small (compared to the national population) arena of UFO researchers demands it. It wont come because some nutball makes up a story about the UN.
If indeed there if a govnerment cover up, it will come only after immense national pressure from all sides of the population., and to do that UFO research needs to gain some ground of credbility, and adopt the scientific method.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by silver6ix


Some of the details could be given away as civilian not knowing such as the uniforms yes, but some cant, such as the officer claiming to be an electronics warfare specialist. Naval officers do not specialize, so even claiming to have a specialty puts question onto the claim.
But it does hwoeevr lend credence to the enlisted confused for officer story, seeing as how Electronics Warefare Specialist IS a enlisted specialty, ell it was until 2003-2004 when cryptological technicans took over their job and that specialty was eliminated.


Yes but once again, since he claimed to join the Navy well before 2003, as ive said repeated times, he could easily have joined as Enlisted and been an Electronic Warfare Specialist.


Once again, you prove nothing, he said he showed and ALBUM proving he WAS (past tense, been through this before also) an Electronics Warfare Specialist, which yes, could easily have been true because it WAS a specialty during his years in the Navy.

The only thing in question here is your refusal to accept you have absolutely nothing to go on what so ever.

But he would not currently BE an Electronic Warfare specialist.
Dont even go there. why would they even bother citing what HE used to be? it wasnt even spoken of in a way to suggest that. the way he cited it was showing what he is NOW. Thats the way people cite things when there trying to use someones credentials as proof of a claim. especially since it said his ID was valid for 3 years, showing hes on active duty.

and like I said, you cant just wake up and go from enlisted to officer, it does not work that way. there are programs you must go through.

Has it ever occed to you, the albums, the navy guy, the story is bull#? have you seen the albums? no. the claimant hasnt shown a single iota of proof whatsoever, yet I have found holes in the story. Again, you and others are trying to fill in gaps with stuff that wasnt even stated. your not trying to critically analyze the claim, your trying to do your best to substantiate it.



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