How should we help the lower income people?

Originally posted by surrender_dorothy
reply to post by conspiracy nut

 

i hear you man.

it's funny that we have to enforce a minimum wage. what would these fat cats be paying us without it?

we would have to hold down four jobs most likely while they sit back in their gentlemans clubs dining on our flesh.

You know what the difference between you and these "fat cats"?
An education and willingness to do better.

reply to post by Fromabove


Well my friend helping others is not a bad thing when it comes from the hart, but in our nation that is what taxes are for, the government uses them to help the nations sustain itself.

But right now, with the corrupted political system we have run by the wealthy elites in the nation along with corporate America our tax payer money is going to the coffers of those same wealthy elites that their greed is helping bring down the mighty nation that we once were, where the American dream could be achieved by those that worked hard and still having left over to lend a hand to those less fortunate.

Does it bother you how we have been scammed by our own elitist and corporate government?

The only ones that believe we need more welfare are those with their hand out themselves.

Originally posted by deathhasnosound
You know what the difference between you and these "fat cats"?
An education and willingness to do better.

You forgot, hundreds of lobbyist paying handsomely to the corrupted politicians in Washington to have their will over the people's will

Is nice when you can buy your own treasury department at the expenses of the tax payer to print the money that you lost in shady bad deals in a name of a bail out and still have some sucker pay for that mistake and keeping them indebted for life

Theres only two ways to truly have justice for everyone. One involves being in a monetary system with better management. Thinking along the Scandinavian countries, the best way is definately through taxes. One that would avoid stigmatisms would be a guaranteed income where everyone receives a check, say at least 30 odd dollars, going up to larger amounts for those who are out of work or temporarily or permanently unemployable, including old age security. This would save a lot of money on duplication of services. Also, there has to be more businesses, small businesses and jobs. We have to end the monopoly and truly start to buy our goods from local businesses and provide start ups for this all the time. Year round farmer's markets, shared food industry appliances and commercial kitchens so that small businesses could rent space without huge credit and without having to invest hundreds of thousands themselves. End monopolies. Start to share the true wealth amongst the people.

The second way, is to watch zeitgeist's new movie and examine the venus project closely and work towards a moneyless, high tech resource society where everyone is equal and may take what they need. Many will be contributing, though again not everyone can. But homes and all necessitites would be provided for one and all regardless of infirmity, as well as many ways to contribute for all who can from many different hobbies and fields. Lifelong education of the highest standards would be free and available. Even many disabled people would be contributing from their own homes in such a system.

Poor? What poor? Where are the poor? Drive through Rio's Favellas and see what poor is.

Drive through MLK street in any big city and you'll see out 'poor', at least two tv's, one of which is a big-screen, you'll see at least one working car, 1 in 4 of which are Cadillacs, go to convenience stores and you'll see our 'poor' buying food which costs 10 - 25% more than in grocery stores.

'They' take enough of my pay to fund welfare, I don't need to do anything else to help the 'poor.'

How about this, send all illegals back from whence they came, and put all able-bodied welfare recipients to work in the fields instead. That will give them enough incentive to get real jobs.

reply to post by mystiq


Humans in general are greedy people, thus the current way of life in the US. They want to one up the people around them. They want the coolest new gadget the biggest TV etc. So the premise that people will only take what they need can never be attained.

I agree it would be great to live in a society such as this, yet human could never be able to attain this.

why are some of you so upset about lower income people getting help.
higher income people have been getting all kinds of help for years!

remember reagan called it trickle down economics.

I have been thinking that instead of giving 700 billion dollars to the banks, we should take the money and subsidize gas.
If not gas, then heating bills.

this gives people a break from their bills on something that still provides a useful service.

and when people get a break, they can pay off other bills, or buy things they need, stirring upt he economy a little.

The current lifestyle does not equate greed for the average person. The Scandinavian countries enjoy a much more civilized version of our middle class system for most people, and their more assisted people are still above the poverty line. Norway for example has more money in their pocket after taxes than the vast majority of us do, according to the UN which is why they enjoy the hightest standard of living in the world. Necessities such as food and housing are controlled. Houses are not typically large, but they are decent and affordable. More money in the average persons hands creates more employment as more local businesses can be guaranteed to exist. This current system that is "greedy" only benefits a few people. Its not greed for your children. Most peoples children are living lives where their wages and buying power are shrinking and they work too many hours for too little. I can't believe anyone is fooled into supporting this system when others have done far better with a higher standard of living and have been shining their lights for decades.
Being mean costs more money to the system than redistributing and creating the necessary environment for many small competing businesses so consumers could chose to buy from the most enviromentally aware and ideal ones. This system doesn't even benefit small businesses, though many are conditioned to vote to the far right thinking they are the business gurus, and in reality discover that a lean controlled population doesn't have the money left in their pockets at the end of the day to spend money in the community much beyond shelter and food and their rising costs of living. As well, they themselves are absorbed by the empire at the top of the monopoly in alarming numbers.
This system isn't about greed for the majority. Its about misinforming people and scaring them into believing a better system is pink or red, though in reality in their proprotional democratic systems, those living in these systems are doing better, have more money in their pockets compared to the prices, have superlative educational and medical systems and are due to their better education system are far more politically active than we are. This system only promotes greed for the top few.

Edit to add: I was surprised when I read on this forum that the average American IQ was 83. That was shocking and now I understand why the education system is being destroyed in the US, because they can't figure out the the political system and how to change it. The average IQ in Canada is 100, and is 110 in both BC and Ontario. My father informed us of that long ago, as he was a teacher and had learnt all these stats. There has been evidence that since the beginning of the 20th century, IQs have been raising 10 degrees every decade or so due to improvements of living conditions for the people. So when you see articles claiming the elite just naturally have higher IQs, your bulls**t meter better be setting off an alarm. Look to the countries that are doing well and have better more equal systems. The average person in those systems have more opportunities to spoil themselves with a little greed.
[edit on 28-10-2008 by mystiq]

[edit on 28-10-2008 by mystiq]

reply to post by mystiq


It isn't about people getting upset about helping poor people, read back you will see I was raised in this environment. The part people get upset with is these people abuse the help and do nothing to help themselves. If what they need is given to them they have no motivation to provide for themselves.

Changes are needed and those 'with' are doing their best not to let it happen. There are a lot of folks whose 'time has come' and are seeing what can happen to one's life when things go bad.

People complain of welfare but farm programs, with over a billion dollars in payments going to people who do not even farm, are twice of that of welfare. They take the government funds as a free handout.

The government doesn't need to necessarily hand out more money. How about making changes so the average person has a better chance. The corporations are the end all answer and I say this based on what they have done in the past 10 years.

If the government is going to hand out money I would rather see average people receive then the system we have today.

i dont think it is helping the poor that is the issue... its helping the lazy... im all for a couple working at minimum wage getting help from the government or whtever source... the problem is generations of families raised on welfare... not taking advantage of the opportunities given to them while the rest of us work for what we get... i worked my way through college and they can get grants... the middle class pays their way.. so should everyone else... give a man a fish and he will eat for a day... teach him to fish an he will never go hungry... but the liberal policy is for me to give him my fish everyday and get so more for myself... time to stop the handouts... put them oh highway litter patrol... make them do the works that the migrants come into the country to do...

I think the biggest problem is how do you save the lower middle income people? I know for a fact that I make more money in my house than a lot of these parents that my children go to school with. How do I know? I'm in a job that allows me to see the income of many people in my area. I know where they work.

I don't lead a crazy life; we eat at home, shop for groceries, often eat meat that is butchered by my in-laws, which cuts the purchase of meat out of my grocery money. Our entertainment is limited to a Netflix subscription, direcTV basic service and the internet.

Yet our kids feel like they are not getting anything. These other kids hold $40 in cash on them at any time, go out to see movies in the theaters, are constantly getting new clothes and other cool devices. I don't even hold $40 in cash, movies, uhh, that's expensive as heck. Clothes? We get 'em when we need 'em. Devices? Wait for the holidays.

Why is there such a difference when I am clearly making more money and spending less? Oh wait, spending less? Do any of them pay rent or a mortgage? Some of these people are handed everything, work under the table, and buy all the things that force my children into thinking they are deprived.

Screw the system! It hurts the hard working people more than anything. It may be time for me to pick up a second job again for a while.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by AHostileMe]

[edit on 28-10-2008 by AHostileMe]

How should we help? Take all that bailout money and robotize every job no one wants to do. In doing this, we will bring forth the abundance of this planet - leading to everyone living at a level of today's Elite - and money would become moot.

This is not communism. Communism is a scarcity paradigm, as in, "We only have so much. Here's your share." An abundance paradigm is more like, "You want "X"? Here ya go."

So if we use this TP currency of ours to eliminate currency completely, I can only think of it as both altruistic and self-serving.

In an abundance paradigm, people will gravitate to those they love, to those they enjoy spending time with, and they will all follow their bliss.

For some, fishing all day long is their bliss, and they can do that if they want.

Others would love to tinker with robots, or invent solutions, or solve problems, or make video games, or play video games...

But the role of "slave" - whether outright or as a wage-slave - will be taken over by technology.

If we REALLY want to do something, this is what we should do. Right now is the first time in our remembered history that we have had this option. I say we take advantage of it.

Boot Camp: Poor.

Well, the poor can only be helped by giving them an endless stream of physical labor, which suit their meager intellectual capacities. They would be payed fairly of course. And they could be used to construct some of the greatest projects of our time; seemingly useless monuments to Presidents on some cliff face in the middle of nowhere, massive dams that tend to suck dry the valleys in which they are situated, and community beautification projects. Just like the Egyptians' pyramid builders were not slaves, they were in fact paid labor, these migrant workers would fuel the greatest artistic and economic projects the world has ever seen. And of course all of them would rather rot in the ground and do drugs than be given free jobs.

Oh, did you mean ending poverty itself? That's another story.

Ameratsu: John Adams expressed this nicely.

"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain."

It seems that any sufficiently advanced society tends to gravitate toward socialism. Now couple the political paradigm of socialism with an economic paradigm of abundance. That combined socioeconomic notion, I believe, is the ultimate goal of any intelligent society or culture.

Of course, John Adams' love for learning was unparalleled. And this may have lent to some of the bias in the above quote.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by cognoscente]

There is a saying:

"Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day...Teach a man to fish and he will never be hungry again."

How do we help the "poor"??? First off stop calling them POOR....human nature is to believe they are as they are perceived.

Education is where it should start, and I'm not talking about the indoctrination kids receive in the public system. True learning and education comes from the inborn gifts each of us have.

The government needs to take a step back. Let the private business sector implement work programs that in the end build self esteem through accomplishing more than the "have not's" ever felt they could.

And the best way to do this is pass it forward...one person is done for, and in return they do for another, and so on....

We are all connected...

~Holly

The very foundation of our capitalist system ensures there is a class structure. In this system there will always be the 'poor' and the 'rich'. There is only one solution. 99% of the people on this forum don't want it to happen. Therefore, my contention is that people in the US want the poor to stay poor. The middle and the upper need them. It's that simple.

reply to post by Bunch


Help? I mean, I've never had a girlfriend... the lower income people point and laugh at me as i walk down the street.

And you want to help them? If they liked me the slightest, then, I mean, it's possible. I mean, the white ones hate the black folks, and the black ones hate the black folks... why help them? They should suffer so they become desperate.

Maybe then, they'll like me better. Or, maybe then, them aliens will get outta my cabasa! (my spanish is terrible). But regardless, life is better if they suffer than if they get free money. It's just about that time...