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Bush's Possible, but true Alien War.

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posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
No offence but are you suggesting you dont? You rely on the word of honest souls like Gerge Bush, Dick Cheney and a million other "reputable" people for proof so I think thats equally questionable data.


Not at all. Where do you get your intel on me? I suggest you change your sources.




posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by gandaalf

Originally posted by silver6ix
No offence but are you suggesting you dont? You rely on the word of honest souls like Gerge Bush, Dick Cheney and a million other "reputable" people for proof so I think thats equally questionable data.


Not at all. Where do you get your intel on me? I suggest you change your sources.


Really? What do you rely on? Im pretty sure it isnt first hand information in most cases.

You seem to have delivered a few "absolutes" in your rather sustained skeptic position but im not really convinced of YOUR sources to be fair.
Its fine to theorise and present your OPINION but I do wonder when people start presenting absolute positions on things they simply have no absolute knowledge of.



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
The problem is you pick and choose who you believe. If some of the people you discredited had stated five years ago "no aliens exist" you would be taking their word on it and pointing to them as examples of your rationality.

All of a sudden when respectable people say something you dont wish tohear, you claim they re no longer reputable sources? Thats very convenient dont you think?

Considering most of the "reputable sources' are proven liars in many aspects of their day to day operations, im not sure why you believe yourself to be standing on solid ground.



You are perfectly correct. people's perception about the world is strengthened or weakened based on what they come in cotact with, and that generally people pick the ideas that give more support to their preconceived notions.

But based on the history of humanity, based on the history of their achievements, based on the history of human psychology, I personally am led to believe what I believe. Question everything. Hardly anything is certain at the end.

Nonetheless, you believe that the earth is round. Not because you went into space and flew around it. But because such description of the earth makes sense to you and your reasoning, about your understanding of the world, and the complex interaction of earthly and heavenly bodies.

I keep hearing this argument, that we believe only what we choose to. As much as it is correct, you inadvertently twist it and misapply it.



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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Galactic war??


Even if we were being visited and the military had reverse engineered something, do you think we would stand a chance against anyone who is capable of easily travelling around the galaxy?

We can't even put a man on Mars...

That said, we don't know anything about those Aliens to make any assumption. Who knows who they are and how advanced they are??



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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OK guys chill out,


Back on topic.. speaking of INTEL, my question is:
Is there any INTEL from this minister? like documentation or anything to back up his statement? .. a memo.. maybe even a top secret file?.. anything?

It seems he is a credible man.. certainly a man of high position no doubt.

There are far too many high ranking officials from all over the globe testifying to the reality of an extraterrestrial presence for all this to mean nothing.. they can't all be hoaxers can they? The most difficult part of this issue is determining who's telling the truth and who's not.

I'd like to know what the Bush administration's official position is toward this issue.



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
...or maybe they want a base on the moon to fight spy satellites from Russia and China?

Or is that to logical?


ORRRRRR...Maybe all this is just more crap to spill out to cover for our corrupt political system to keep funneling our tax money into the hands of the people that steal yours and my money everyday! What better way to have a mass shift of tax payer money in every tax paying economic structure than a alien threat that only the government can prove is real or un-real....? It's the perfect system for a global shift to unify power and economics.



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by gandaalf

You are perfectly correct. people's perception about the world is strengthened or weakened based on what they come in cotact with, and that generally people pick the ideas that give more support to their preconceived notions.

But based on the history of humanity, based on the history of their achievements, based on the history of human psychology, I personally am led to believe what I believe. Question everything. Hardly anything is certain at the end.


Peoples perception of the world comes from indoctrination at birth. Harsh as that may sound, im afraid its true. Because you were raised and indoctrinated with a belief that X is fantasy Y is fact, does not make it so.

Much of what you see in Media news is little more than fantasy, a presentation of images and sounds keyed to present the picture the person behind it chooses to present. That doesnt make it real, only a skewed presentation of what is real.

The history of humanity, its achievements and psychology doesnt prohibit in any way shape of form the belief or consideration of life beyond Earth. If anything it should highlight the dangers of mainstream, eyes wide closed ignorance. History remebers well how often flawed mainstream denial has clung to its guns and persecuted the visionaries, not basd on truth but based on what they wanted to hold onto as truth. You say the world is round, mainstream science and ruling ideology called peoples nutcases and heretics for that belief.

You say the Earth Orbits the sun? Gallileo was the laughing stock of his peers and placed under house arrest for even daring to suggest something so brazenly rediculous and heretical. History teaches, but only to those who see with an open mind.

If your mind is closed, you see only what you choose to see, and not what is really there.




Nonetheless, you believe that the earth is round. Not because you went into space and flew around it. But because such description of the earth makes sense to you and your reasoning, about your understanding of the world, and the complex interaction of earthly and heavenly bodies.

I keep hearing this argument, that we believe only what we choose to. As much as it is correct, you inadvertently twist it and misapply it.


I twist nothing, i only point out that your perception to me is as much an illusion as you seem to feel others views are. Everything around you, society, structure, law, science is a lie my friend.

The truth is society is a gathering of mushrooms who cling to beliefs they are too afraid to let go.

There is no more lack of logic in alien life than there was in under water life, neither were less reasonable and both were possible. The reason people cannot seperate the concept from fantasy is because you have been conditioned your entire life, through society, through media, through popular belief, through humor and a million other devices to niche "Aliens" into a little semantic box in your head which has "fantasy" written on it.

The issue is for you to overcome those semantic barriers and for you to open the box and see for yourself what is or isnt.

You might as well forget what the government and military tell you, the only statements they make are lies, on this subject and every other subject again, history makes that point very clear indeed.

If you are looking for "official" proof you might as well ask a liar if hes telling the truth because even if it came, you would be wise not to trust anything from the mouths of people who lie and scheme for a living.

Again I find it interesting how quickly a person can become "discredited" just by saying something which offends peoples ability to rationalise. Did those cosmonauts, military men, politicians all just "become" unbelievable or was it just your perception of the words which turned them into that in your mind.

Thats where the answer lies. You hear the words and the trigger within yur mind takes away credibility just as its was designed to do. The entire illusion of this world is held together by "credible" or "incredible" people and event, and you are NOT the one controlling that credibility.



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by Geoff Capes
Explain to me the advantage of having a base on the moon.


To get friendly assets into play more quickly and at a lower cost.

Less gravity, less atmosphere, fewer immediate obstacles.



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 05:43 PM
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Just out of interest,
Does this building of a base on the Moon, or Mars ( as of a recent website and news articles I have seen) have any thing to do with 2012 or any other of these ideas that are all over this website.
I mean it is another possibilty. If the US government has heard about 2012, they may either be over reacting or, for once right on the mark. Who knows???

If it be for shelter, defense, attack or mining I think it is a good idea to put a base on the moon, or more exrtreme mars.
i dont want to turn this in to another 2012 debate, god knows theres alot of them, I just want to ask is this americas reaction to it????



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by silver6ix
 


How exactly is it more logical when the Only Aliens that any one has reported in any numbers contacting

are Humanoid

I am just posting some common theories of terrestrial origins of these beings... that is one of them I did not state that I DID or DID NOT believe any individual one of them

What I do know is that they are Humanoid in nature and appearance...

There are over a Billion Life forms on earth, hardly any take our shape and form, just on this Planet

It is from any scientific stand point, far more logical to conclude we are related to them

If we were alone and we could not trace back our genetic linage to apes and then other creatures we diverged from than I would say maybe they seeded us entirely to fit this planet

But that is not the case

So in all plausible reality, the odds of them being humanoid and from another world are...spectacular, ridiculous, improbable... it is the most Gigantic leap of belief and the most preposterous thing, to place in your mind, Alien Life as resembling us, when most life right here does not in any way resemble us.

Your justifying that, these beings evolved on a Planet identical to earth in mass and composition and atmosphere, arose on the surface and in no other medium, took a similar line of evolution, developed similar technology (in a universe that has Hundreds of thousands of kinds of Maths as potential OTHER THAN EUCLIDEAN GEOMETRY) and came the distance they would have needed to come to Earth because it is a match for it's world

and that in a Galaxy of billions and Billions of stars and many more planets, they actually pinpointed us and we happen to be... just like them?

Really stop and think about that for a moment

Their Gravity would have had to have been the same (upright walking head size hello)

Their Atmospheric density would have had to have been almost identical

Their Atmospheric composition would have had to have been almost Identical

Their Sun would have had to have been almost identical

Their Genetic development of life and conditions on their world from a bio diversity stand point would have had to have been remarkably similar...


Your talking about a coincidence that makes winning the lottery look like a high probability


If we have 2,000 planets that evolved life in this Galaxy, an almost identical species would be in the ratio of Billions to One

Life on Earth itself demonstrates that, the only creatures that are near or approach us in Intelligence, look Nothing like us!!!

They range from the Giant Octopus to Dolphins and then we have Intelligences we don't understand at all... like a Trees ability to sense danger and communicate it, or Social Insects like Ants

and that's Just Earth

so even if, even IF

a species happened to arise that was just like us...

why would they find us before something truly alien did?

What are the actual odds of that


I stand firm

a similar species in shape or appearance would be FAR more likely to have evolved from the genetics on this world, even if, cast off in a cataclysm to another planet where life took hold

More likely than that, given the nature of gravity and atmosphere, even a non primate species on earth would be far more likely to have evolved to look, like we do because they are adapting to the needs of this planet... a Raptor Basis for that evolution, is far more probable numerically than an entirely alien species (and that one would be indeed last on my list)

But The real of this... The Greys can be nothing more than a divergent strain of man... or more unlikely, something else from this Earth, some form of us that adapted to a slightly different environment

The eyes evidence lack of light

There have been many disasters on Earth that have pushed us to the brink of extinction and we indeed have lived in caves in our past

It is FAR more likely that some of us found our way into the deeper natural caverns that extend under our mountain ranges and into the surround plateaus, to survive

than it is that something Just like us poped over from Thousands of light years away and got here before anything truly alien did

The last time our genome indicates Humans as a species came to the brink of extinction by an event was only around 60,000 years ago...

and, until as much as 30,000 years ago cave dwelling was common place

The most COMMON Methods for UFO's to escape, seems to be "simply vanish" you rarely hear of them...Blasting Off into outerspace

What we do have accounts for is associations with Mountains and other regions that could hold vast chambers, we do witness them vanishing into lakes

Our Military is reported to have Underground dealings with them

The showed up after our atomic tests in America

(let me ask? Which is a bigger leap... they noticed our atomic explosions from light years away and got here less than a month later? WE blew up a door to another dimension? with an a-bomb lol, or, we set one off right above their heads and they poped up to have a look around...

in a ufo...which, is small and looks allot more like a diving bell of some sort than an interstellar craft... not much room for provisions on the Roswell craft huh?)



Which makes more sense given they have been in our history for as long as the last few thousand years

They were here all along... or they are a type 4 civilization that not only HAPPENS to look almost exactly like us and engineered all life on this planet to play some g-d like experiment

sorry but one scenario is far more likely than the other


It's nice, you know... I'm an imaginative guy too, I love my science fiction, but the Galaxy just isn't going to turn out to be filled with, humanoids with funny heads and diverse colorations that make a statement to race and culture relations within our own species here on Earth




You know you don't actually think it's going to be that much like star trek or star wars right?



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by cbass
reply to post by asmeone2
 


If it were contrived, why would there be the need for a forward base on the moon? And for that matter, what the hell is a forward base on the moon?
Is it different than a backward base?

Why is an Ex-prime minister saying these things?
Am I in the twilight zone?
If you would show people this video fifty years ago they would $***
their pants.
Are we that numb to such talk that it goes un noticed now?


Is is all very complicated you know. It is like this. The aliens are living on Earth, so we will need a canon on the moon to shoot the aliens of earth. THAT is a forward base on the moon. Because he doesn't want to be shot in the back.

Sorry.... had to do that. Hellyer is an interesting guy who is turned around on the ET subject after reading the book of Philip Corso on Rosswell. Just check him out, he is convinced of Corso's truth and the Disclosure Project.
Personally I have no grounds to doubt all the testimonies, so am in too, I guess....hmmm
Wow, out of the closet! See the light ;-)



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 06:01 PM
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Gandaalf I thank you for going through every single post in this thread so you understand what we are debating (some of it you agree with me and some you don't).

As to most of the others, who have not read everything, with exception for a few who commented earlier, let me summarize what I said:

1. There is no way that we should militarize the moon to attack UFO's simply because those aliens were supposedly able to reach Earth at the ridiculous speeds in their spacecrafts which leads me to believe their technology is better than ours.

2. For this reason, our military technologies defintely don't stack up to theirs (not saying that the military exposes all of their advances to the public but they definitely don't have the capabilities of these 'aliens')

3. I am not blocking out any possibilities but looking at probabilities and the realistic perspective


4. If humans had the capabilities to visit other planets and expose their resources (Europeans exposed the New World for their resources and this would supposedly be the New Frontier) it would be public knowledge because it would require a whole lot of people to accomplish. -And trust me if these resources existed humans would find a way to expose them because as history shows us we are a greedy people (Africa- slaves, South America- metals, India- Spices, etc.,etc.)

5.I like to debate so I'm open to all views but I'll probably have something to say about it


6. Can someone prove what cbass is saying about our technological advancements because what the world knows would be the onus in this case and it isn't my job to disprove it. Its your (and I mean everyone behind this thought) to prove it.

And a note for cbass-->Wasn't this suppose to die on page 4? All this debate has brought it to the homepage



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


"How exactly is it more logical when the Only Aliens that any one has reported in any numbers contacting "

Could it be that the humanoid form and sentient intelligence ar connected evolutions?


Of all the many millions of intelligences on the planet we believe that the humanoid intelligence is the most advanced, maybe theres a reason for that.

Intelligence has purpose, curiosity, creativity, its expansive, so its very logical that entities which evolve with that type of intelligence also evolved to be well adapted to using tools and putting their intellect to work. Theres nothing unreasonable about it at all. In fact ALL sentient intelligence in the Universe might be humanoid and it wouldnt be unreasonable.

Sentient Intelligence in a cucumber shape with no limbs, or with flippers hard survives logical challenge, it serves no greater pusporse and would be obsolete so why would it evolve?

No offence but Dolphins dont need to do maths and they dont build technology so why would their species ever need to evolve a human type intellect?

"It is FAR more likely that some of us found our way into the deeper natural caverns that extend under our mountain ranges and into the surround plateaus, to survive"

Far more likely you suggest but thats based on convenience of thought and logistics, not science or reason.

Any species living here in terrain humans have explored, probed and tested for hundreds of years would be very unlikley to have remained secret and if they were flying bloody great ships around im pretty sure we might have noticed.

If they are more advanced than us they are most likely to be older than us so why would they live underground when they could rule this planet?

Are you suggesting the developed and tested advanced flight from scratch in a cave? Id hardly call that logical myself.



[edit on 28-10-2008 by silver6ix]



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by Pjotr

Originally posted by cbass
reply to post by asmeone2
 


If it were contrived, why would there be the need for a forward base on the moon? And for that matter, what the hell is a forward base on the moon?
Is it different than a backward base?

Why is an Ex-prime minister saying these things?




at the first part.

As for the second question: The Title of the thread is a bit misleading. I'm pretty sure he's the Ex-DEPUTY Prime Minister. I Live in Canada and never hear anything about deputy prime ministers so he's not as important as his title would lead you to believe although I'm sure he's been in more than a few important meetings pertaining to Canada's intrests and the international topics.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Portugoal]



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 06:06 PM
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IF

We find anything at all, IF there is any truth to the Greys we will find they are allot closer to home than we had imagined

I have no idea how people with nothing...LOL other than the rants of people who Claim to have communications in their HEADS that there is some galactic Federation, 57 species of Aliens we are in contact with, massive fleets we can't see in orbit

Isn't it obvious how much of the dis info and lies are pulled right out of main stream sci fi?

Let me identify the Mythos (that coincidently always tell the entire story of the human race lol, from the vantage point of one...spectaculr person or incident that allowed them access to the whole story of everything because they are special and chose... LOL, the same sort of story people have told about religion for the last 6,500 years and now aliens and...AND the exact type of plot in which every mainstream Fantasy movie revolves around)

Close Encounters

Star Gate SG1

The Peaceful Warrior

Star Trek

Star Wars

The Bible

Every single mainstream Alien theory or cult following derives from, those specific movies and 2 Books

At LEAST, be Imaginative !

All we have beyond that

are eye witness accounts of UFO's and Abductions that revolve around a Grey HUMANOID species

and they

are linked across the board to some sort of UNDERGROUND activity

On the part of method of escape, appearance, history and local legend, the cultures around our planet, evidence of systems of tunnels, Military Involvement, Area 51 and many other bases where we supposedly contact these things

99.9% of the stories of sightings are... small craft, no supplies, no provisions... no distance traveled

and people make assumptions of LOL Star Gates and other tech derived straight from the sci fi channel

Why?

And if so why just like us...

So many unanswered near impossibilities, when a perfectly rational explanation of, they come from right here where the environment exists and they look like us



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 06:09 PM
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The aliens every one is talking about could be more alien than you think. Yes this will sound very science fiction like, but meh.
The reason aliens are reported as being Humanoid in shape could have something to do with image projection, or a form of morphing. Again I know its far fetched idea.
For example a possible reason for them not reaching a full human copy could be to do with there physical limits in what they could morph to. Again just an idea I thought was worth asking



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


This is all non rationalised thinking.

Why should they need supplies? Maybe they consume their food via high yield vitamin tablets, maybe they dont need the same as we need.

Im pretty sure a caveman watching us go hiking with a little backpack and some packet food would be wondering why we didnt carry a herd of deer on long poles. Times change and theres no reason to expect them to have the same needs or restrictions.

Second if the were using space folding and wormholes, they wouldnt need long term supplies, they could hop here and back.

Third im pretty sure they could operate a forward supply base on any number of planets around here including the far side of the moon and just commute.

I think its far more logical to suggest the reason they stay so unknown is because they ARENT from here and they just happen to be vastly more advanced than we are.



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 06:16 PM
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i agree with cbass somewhat, but i have other thoughts of my own as to what his intentions are and what the moon might actually be. but anyway i liked your post and thought it was good.



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


Why should they need supplies? Maybe they consume their food via high yield vitamin tablets, maybe they dont need the same as we need.



Very possible if they are advanced enough to reach Earth (this assuming they exist
)



[edit on 28-10-2008 by Portugoal]



posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Geoff Capes


Yup, false flag coming soon..

And most people will probably fall for it...



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