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Dissecting the Flight 93 OCT...or should i say debunking it?

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posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by Domenick DiMaggio
 


Gunned/ Shot... whatever. It's not the clearest of audio. The point remains that you stated to him that flight 93 was shot down.

Do you believe that?

How many people claimed to have seen flight 93 just prior to the crash?

How many people saw it get struck by a missile. (you answered that one)

How many people saw flight 93 smoking, on fire, or describe any damage to the craft prior to the crash?

When do you assume this mystery plane shot down flight 93 and how would you assume this affected the debris field and it's contents.

I have to admit, you do not seem as... "hard core" as the Loose Change crowd. This is why I assume you refrain from telingl me what your theory is. Saying it out loud, you realize how silly it sounds.

I have looked into the claim that 90% of the aircraft was recovered. I have also read the 90% of the recovered craft was given back to the airlines.
See where I'm going with this?

[edit on 11/2/0808 by ThroatYogurt]

[edit on 11/2/0808 by ThroatYogurt]




posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
reply to post by Domenick DiMaggio
 


Gunned/ Shot... whatever. It's not the clearest of audio. The point remains that you stated to him that flight 93 was shot down.

Do you believe that?


you are correct that is what i told wally miller. i have reason to suspect it was shot down because someone is a position to know whether or not it was told me they weren't allowed to tell me about the plane that was shot down on 9/11.


How many people claimed to have seen flight 93 just prior to the crash?


well i have spoken with 3 but many more have claimed to have seen it. i've learned from eyewitnesses that some witnesses asked others what they saw and then ran to tv and news reporters and told them they had in fact witnessed it.



How many people saw flight 93 smoking, on fire, or describe any damage to the craft prior to the crash?


jim stop.


When do you assume this mystery plane shot down flight 93 and how would you assume this affected the debris field and it's contents.


again you ask me to speculate. we're told ed felt's phone call to westmoreland county was at 9:58 and :78 seconds long. in it he mentions an explosion and smoke filling up in the plane. so about 4-6 minutes before the explosion in shanksville.

interesting to note that all witnesses who describe hearing noises while the plane is airborne are all north of the crash and include laura temyer, mike merringer, & lisa merringer. i imagine if one spends more time up in hooversville area they will find more people who heard loud explosions in the air and looked up to witness flight 93.


I have to admit, you do not seem as... "hard core" as the Loose Change crowd. This is why I assume you refrain from telingl me what your theory is. Saying it out loud, you realize how silly it sounds.


i don't have to theorize once i prove something to be not true. you can ask me to speculate based on the 2.5 years of hands on in shanksville research i have done but i don't have to offer theory.

my theory is the official theory is false. i have proven that beyond all shadow of a doubt.

why are you so against an investigation where the president doesn't get to pick who's in charge and who's all on the committee?




I have looked into the claim that 90% of the aircraft was recovered. I have also read the 90% of the recovered craft was given back to the airlines.
See where I'm going with this?

[edit on 11/2/0808 by ThroatYogurt]

[edit on 11/2/0808 by ThroatYogurt]


no, i don't.

i answer your questions but you dodge mine and label me a conspiracy theorist.

the united states government claims to have recovered over 90% of a 757 from a hole 8 feet deep. you and others claim it was obliterated and thats why we don't see all this airplane debris.

someone is wrong.

who?

[edit on 2-11-2008 by Domenick DiMaggio]



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Domenick DiMaggio
you are correct that is what i told wally miller. i have reason to suspect it was shot down because someone is a position to know whether or not it was told me they weren't allowed to tell me about the plane that was shot down on 9/11.


So, once again we are treated to anonymous hearsay? This, I am sad to say is typical for most truthers.



well i have spoken with 3 but many more have claimed to have seen it. i've learned from eyewitnesses that some witnesses asked others what they saw and then ran to tv and news reporters and told them they had in fact witnessed it.


Thank you.



How many people saw flight 93 smoking, on fire, or describe any damage to the craft prior to the crash?

jim stop.


I can assure you my name is not Jim and I would appreciate an answer.




again you ask me to speculate. we're told ed felt's phone call to westmoreland county was at 9:58 and :78 seconds long. in it he mentions an explosion and smoke filling up in the plane. so about 4-6 minutes before the explosion in shanksville.


Although it has been verified by Gordon, his wife, and the person taking the call that this was NEVER said...You still have not one single witness to any smoke, debris, fire, etc prior to impact.


interesting to note that all witnesses who describe hearing noises while the plane is airborne are all north of the crash and include laura temyer, mike merringer, & lisa merringer. i imagine if one spends more time up in hooversville area they will find more people who heard loud explosions in the air and looked up to witness flight 93.


Been 2 1/2 years and this is all you got? Get crackin!



i don't have to theorize once i prove something to be not true. you can ask me to speculate based on the 2.5 years of hands on in shanksville research i have done but i don't have to offer theory.

my theory is the official theory is false. i have proven that beyond all shadow of a doubt.


2 1/2 years and you have really... nothing but a few witnesses that contradict MANY other, and damning physical evidence.


why are you so against an investigation where the president doesn't get to pick who's in charge and who's all on the committee?


Because I know what happened. I have educated myself. I will not allow one more penny of my hard earned money to go into ANOTHER investigation.






no, i don't.

i answer your questions but you dodge mine and label me a conspiracy theorist.

the united states government claims to have recovered over 90% of a 757 from a hole 8 feet deep. you and others claim it was obliterated and thats why we don't see all this airplane debris.

someone is wrong.

who?


I am answering yours. The point I was making is that what I have read was that the FBI either turned over:

a- 90% of the airplane

or

b- 90% of the recovered airplane.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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1. I would like to see people's theories regarding the presence of a military drone.

Why would Susan McElwain be able to describe a very slow, low fly-over above tree tops (just in front of the official crash site) of a white drone, just before she heard a loud explosion at the later declared, official crash site?
While the official explanation of the end of flight 93 describes a total unawareness of all involved authorities about the faith of that flight at that moment in time.
Which entity with access to military drones WAS aware of the exact location where flight 93 would explode (in the air above, or in, the ground)?

The pure presence on 9/11/2001 of such a military drone, nowadays being used to fire Hellfire rockets at suspected Al Qaida members in Iraq and Pakistan is sufficient proof for a military aided 9/11 deception scenario.

2. Why would there be a need on the flight 93 scene for two low flying planes observed by the other elderly woman interviewed?

Was the bigger one, the one described as having two kinds of eyes on its back, controlling the drone, or did it have another purpose?

3. Domenick, where do you base your suspicions on about the 3 armed hijackers? Where did you gather that information from? And why do you think two of them chickened out?

4. Could you or SPreston please give links to the source for those cell phone timelines?



Obviously I missed a lot of your involvement and discussion on the flight 93 subject, you guys seem to have provided a lot of information on it already somewhere else, of which I am unaware.
I know of your posts on the Pilots for Truth forums, but am unaware of other discussions elsewhere.

I know of your name and activities already for several years, but found only snippets of info during that time.
But the interview you guys had with Susan McElwain got my full attention, that info put me on full alert status a year ago.
See my posts with her embedded video interview by Domenick's team in this forum, the first one his team did is in this post:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

2007YouTube - 9/11 Shanksville Eyewitness Susan McElwain
www.youtube.com...





Somewhere I remembered reading in the year after 9/11/01 about her and her husband alerting authorities and the FBI to their sighting on 9/11 of this drone, but they were ridiculed by the FBI and they got so disappointed that they stopped sending letters to them.
Was that snippet of info floating around, leading you guys to them to interview them on camera?


>--------------------------------------------<

On the subject of disturbing discussion techniques used in online forums, I hope you are aware of the existence of this psychological distracting operation:
www.globalsecurity.org...

The best and probably only defense against their online operators is neglecting them, until they address the subject of a thread with solid counter arguments. All other distractions should be ignored. By ALL.

And directly stopped by forum mods on the job at that moment.
Distractive posts should be blanked by them, but still be clickable to eventually see the post. That way you improve the readability of a thread enormously.

In case of ATS, I am afraid forum traffic prevails above forum quality at the moment.
The owners -have to- operate it as a profit entity, in the end. Visitor numbers defeat research quality. Tabloids conquer quality forums.

A pity, especially for this 9/11 forum, which had a very high quality of discussion in the past years, it is however fading away slowly since they felt the need to add those yellow warning lines on top of these pages, but failed to strictly adhere to those lines them selfs.
Much too much slack is given to distractors who repeat them selfs ad infinitum. Which is a main psy-ops technique, btw.

>---------------------------------------------<

Edit, to add this appropriate complaint in this thread :
""Due to member demand, the 9/11 forum is now under close staff scrutiny""

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It is getting terribly obvious, that some people have unstrained access to online forum behavior, forbidden to the bulk of the others.
Insults are the norm for these people, and their posts are not removed.

Please explain this discrepancy in your stated intent above all the 9/11 forum pages:
"" Any inappropriate comments, insults, topic derailment, or trolling will result in immediate posting ban or account termination. ""

You don't need to ban behavior like this, just blank/must-click those posts, it will much better improve this forum than all this, in the end, hollow threatening.

[edit on 2/11/08 by LaBTop]



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 03:33 PM
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And this is the main reason why we and Domenick and Craig and all the others on the Web and in the field are and will be active, especially everything after 2:40 minutes in this 9:11 minutes long part 10 video (Zero: An Investigation Into 9-11 - part 1 to 11).

Part 10 :

www.youtube.com...




This is the Conclusion, part 11 :

www.youtube.com...




Louie Cacchioli breaks my heart. As does the father of the young victim, as do all the others, left behind.

And we won't be fooled, again, like on 9/11.

Ever.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by jthomas
that AA77 hit the Pentagon... that AA77 flew over the Pentagon... that it flew over the Pentagon, tezzajw?

Again, jthomas, your weak tactics of trying to drag a thread off topic are noted.

This thread is about the alleged Flight 93. Your entire post did not address the alleged Flight 93.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
So, once again we are treated to anonymous hearsay? This, I am sad to say is typical for most truthers.


i would be willing to submit these peoples name to subpenoa's and i don't believe anyone here disputes the fact that i actually am doing hands on research in shanksville. i gave america a 40 minute uncut interview with not just susan mcelwain but coroner wally miller and soon i will be releasing a new one with viola saylor. if you wish to dispute me go ahead but not only am i not an anonymous internet provateur but my face is also public and my credibility is at stake. all things you don't have to be concerned about while you launch your attacks from the safety of your parents basement.






How many people saw flight 93 smoking, on fire, or describe any damage to the craft prior to the crash?

jim stop.


I can assure you my name is not Jim and I would appreciate an answer.


Pittsburgh Tribune Review doesn't find you amusing.....

Meanwhile, investigators also are combing a second crime scene in nearby Indian Lake, where residents reported hearing the doomed jetliner flying over at a low altitude before "falling apart on their homes."

"People were calling in and reporting pieces of plane falling," a state trooper said.

Jim Stop reported he had seen the hijacked Boeing 757 fly over him as he was fishing. He said he could see parts falling from the plane.


Although it has been verified by Gordon, his wife, and the person taking the call that this was NEVER said...You still have not one single witness to any smoke, debris, fire, etc prior to impact.


oh its been verified?
so they did release the audio the fbi confiscated of the phone call that day?
link?


Been 2 1/2 years and this is all you got? Get crackin!


*SNIP* Insult removed


2 1/2 years and you have really... nothing but a few witnesses that contradict MANY other, and damning physical evidence.


damning physical evidence that a small white plane and a large white plane weren't at the scene?

cool lets see it.


Because I know what happened. I have educated myself. I will not allow one more penny of my hard earned money to go into ANOTHER investigation.


oh you know what happened?

because the corporate media whores and crooked politicians wrote a piece of fiction for you?

i mean you've never so much as spoken to anyone on this planet that really witnessed something on 9/11 like the towers collapsing or the plane in arlington or the plane in shanksville. no need to do that. some politicians will take care of it for you and some criminals sitting in front of a tv camera will be sure to parrot their words for you.




I am answering yours. The point I was making is that what I have read was that the FBI either turned over:

a- 90% of the airplane

or

b- 90% of the recovered airplane.


a, 90% of the airplane.

the claim is a. stop being dishonest. post links to your confusing sources. you won't because they are very clear about the claim that over 90% of a 100 ton 757 was recovered from that 8 foot deep hole. theres no shade of grey in there.

now who is lying?


Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 11/3/2008 by Hal9000]



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by Domenick DiMaggio


jim stop.


I can assure you my name is not Jim and I would appreciate an answer.

See, that's pretty funny... I thought you were calling me Jim and telling me to stop.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by Domenick DiMaggio


i would be willing to submit these peoples name to subpenoa's and i don't believe anyone here disputes the fact that i actually am doing hands on research in shanksville. i ..............................all things you don't have to be concerned about while you launch your attacks from the safety of your parents basement.


I didn't say you were anonymous. It is still hearsay until you provide proof from a reliable source and not 2nd and 3rd hand information.

As far as your first attack on me in my parents basement... I can assure you that you would be unable to afford the 1/4 acre lot that my house is sitting on. (I listen to the ocean from my bedroom)



Meanwhile, investigators also are combing a second crime scene in nearby Indian Lake, where residents reported hearing the doomed jetliner flying over at a low altitude before "falling apart on their homes."


Your article from 9/13/01. Pretty early on in the investigation. Mr. Stop was mistaken... the debris that was from the plane (after it crashed) that was outside the immediate impact zone was rather light.

Do you have any proof of heavy weight debris?




oh its been verified?
so they did release the audio the fbi confiscated of the phone call that day?
link?


So, we are too assume: Brother and wife of Ed felt and John Shaw are all lying to protect the governments story?




*SNIP* Insult Removed.


Your second personal attack on me. tsk tsk. You are being shown your errors and this is how you react? I would be careful.



damning physical evidence that a small white plane and a large white plane weren't at the scene?


you have a couple people that were clearly mistaken. Their testimonies are refuted by MANY other witnesses and REAL physical evidence.




oh you know what happened?


yes


because the corporate media whores and crooked politicians wrote a piece of fiction for you?


no

1. eyewitness statements
2. victim family statements
3. Wally Miller's statements (he stated you are disrespecting the family's)
4. FDR data
4. CVR data


i mean you've never so much as spoken to anyone on this planet that really witnessed something on 9/11.


Sir,

I have corresponded with:

First responders
FEMA members
Structural Engineers
Scientists
Victims Family members

The only difference between me and you... I didn't ignore the answers when I was asking questions.






the claim is a. stop being dishonest. post links to your confusing sources. you won't because they are very clear about the claim that over 90% of a 100 ton 757 was recovered from that 8 foot deep hole. theres no shade of grey in there.

now who is lying?


Now I am a liar after I asked a question? Seems you want to talk about flight 93 by yourself.


FBI ends site work, says no bomb used

Tuesday, September 25, 2001

By Tom Gibb, Post-Gazette Staff Writer

STONYCREEK, Pa. -- The FBI said yesterday that it has finished its work at the crash scene of United Flight 93 after recovering about 95 percent of the downed airliner and concluding that explosives were not responsible for bringing it down.


Evidence-gathering was halted Saturday afternoon and the pieces of United Airlines Flight 93 that had been recovered were turned over Sunday to the airline, with the exception of the flight data recorder and the voice recorder, which are being held and analyzed by the FBI, according to FBI agent Bill Crowley. archives.cnn.com...

IF you pay attention... I am on your side with this. I have not found any reports that actually quote Mr. Crowley. Perhaps there is a video of this press conference?

[edit on 11/3/2008 by Hal9000]



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by ThroatYogurt
 



What about first responders who statements contradicts the official story?
What about structural Engineers who statements contradicts the official story?
What about the scientists who have proven with testing that our Government is lying.
What about victim’s family members who are asking for a new 911 investigation because the truth has not been told, yet they are claiming the 911-commission report is nothing but a white wash of lies.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:49 PM
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throat yogurt is now on ignore. his mind is made up and i am not here to argue with bush apologists who constantly lie and twist evidence and dismiss everything that contradicts the official story as 'mistaken' because he already knows what happened.

dear throat yogurt,

since you know what happened on 9/11 shut your computer off because we all know the 9/11 commission and official story line. its not hard to find. it dont need copied and pasted here with insults for good measure.


labtop i will respond to your much welcomed posts later this evening when i have the proper amount of time to dedicate to it.


[edit on 3-11-2008 by Domenick DiMaggio]



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 07:18 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
4. FDR data
4. CVR data

You wouldn't happen to have some serial numbers to show me that those alleged objects really are what they are supposed to be?

It's a trivial matter for you to be able to prove it, so I expect that after listening to your sea breeze on that quarter acre of luxury, you'll respond fairly quickly with some proof.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by tezzajw]



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 07:23 PM
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dbbl post

[edit on 11/3/0808 by ThroatYogurt]



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by cashlink
What about first responders who statements contradicts the official story?
What about structural Engineers who statements contradicts the official story?
What about the scientists who have proven with testing that our Government is lying.
What about victim’s family members who are asking for a new 911 investigation because the truth has not been told, yet they are claiming the 911-commission report is nothing but a white wash of lies.



Cash, my friend. I do not have a problem with people contradicting any story. To draw appropriate conclusions, you take all of the evidence combined.

This is a flight 93 thread though sir...although I am on ignore from the OP i don't want to stray off topic. Please start another thread with each of your points. I am sure they will stimulate some great conversations.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 07:32 PM
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reply to post by tezzajw
 


Not too much of a breeze tonight. Tides are not too high either.

I don't have the serial numbers sir.
Your point was made about 546 posts ago when you asked for them.

Not sure why the government would plant an FDR that was damaged enough to have to be sent to the manufacturer to obtain information.

Some info if your interested:

The Flight Data Recorder

The FBI were the lead investigators for the crash in Shanksville. The FDR was handed over to the NTSB Vehicle Recorders Division on September 13, 2001.

The SSFDR (Solid State Flight Data Recorder) was examined by the NTSB. They determined that the recorder and memory board were found to have damage. Since the amount of the damage was not known, the FDR was taken to the manufactures facility in Redman, Washington. The data was extracted at the Honeywell facility and electronically transferred to the NTSB headquarters.

The transcribed data were then processed by the (RAPS) "Recover Analysis and Presentation Systems" at NTSB headquarters. There, they converted the data into graphic and tabular forms. The examination of the data showed that the recorder operated normally.

The following link will take you to photographs of the recorder and memory board recovered from the crash scene. It also explains in detail how information was translated. In addition is all the graphs etc.

www.gwu.edu...



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
I don't have the serial numbers sir.
Your point was made about 546 posts ago when you asked for them.

So it's a faith based argument that the FDR and CVR might be the ones from the alleged Flight 93. Your guess is as good as mine, huh?

We're given all of the 'evidence', except for the authenticity for the source of the 'evidence'...



Not sure why the government would plant an FDR that was damaged enough to have to be sent to the manufacturer to obtain information.

Wow, you're not sure why they would do that, if indeed they did it?

Hmmm, given that you're posting on a conspiracy website, that by its very nature is full of people asking questions, why aren't you prepared to imagine a little further? If you're going to believe everything that you're told, then you might as well go and enjoy your expensive beach locale, rather than waste your time typing at a monitor.

Lots of people here could imagine why there would be a need to plant a fake FDR and CVR. That's the whole purpose of this forum.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by jthomas
that AA77 hit the Pentagon... that AA77 flew over the Pentagon... that it flew over the Pentagon, tezzajw?

Again, jthomas, your weak tactics of trying to drag a thread off topic are noted.


There is no harm in telling you why Dom ran away, is there? Don't tell me I didn't warn you.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by ThroatYogurt
 



I have corresponded with:

First responders
FEMA members
Structural Engineers
Scientists
Victims Family members



Oh TY, I was only commenting on your post in this tread, so if “your” comment is off topic then you should not have posted in the first place Sir.

Infact you should start a thread about your off topic post.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by jthomas
There is no harm in telling you why Dom ran away, is there? Don't tell me I didn't warn you.
What the hell are you on about, jthomas?

You're linking to a thread about Flight AA77 in a Flight UA93 thread - why?

Dude, you seriously need to take a break from the keyboard, you're not even trying to stay on-topic.



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