Peaceful secession or civil war?

In the last few weeks, I have noticed a deeper rift growing between liberals and conservatives .The ideological differences are at near polar opposite. This rift seemed to begin after the 2000 election it has opened deeper and wider as time has passed.
The country has shown great division along these ideological lines, witnessed by the red state blue state divide.

This development has given me cause to consider. If this division continues I see the possibility that this country will tear it’s self apart. I’m speaking of secession from the union by several states. Right now many of you are thinking “Oh that southern states thing” NO this sentiment has been voiced by several northern states including Hawaii and Alaska.

The last time this country was so politically divided there was a horrendous civil war. This can never be allowed to happen again, death and destruction have never changed the people’s ideologies.

As the ideological differences will not cease, would it not be in the best interest of the country to amicably split? Two separate unions. The blue union and the red union interdependent with interstate trade yet separate political structure. The federal government holdings that reside in each state would revert to that state and to the new union they defer to.

I do not posit these thoughts to produce sedition. The simple fact of the matter is that soon we will have to seek a solution to these problems. I would opt for peaceful measures.

What would be your plan to alleviate this looming problem? Or am I just way off base with what I am seeing?


[edit on 27-10-2008 by daddyroo45]

I had high hopes that there would be a general discourse about this issue.
There is a rummble below the retorical political speeches.The people have chosen sides and I feel the end result will be civil unrest at best,outright civil war at the worst.
Tell me your thoughts.What sense do you have about this issue?

For the first time in my life I see people, when among friends they trust not to think they're insane, beginning to discuss this as a real possibility. Almost daily, someone mentions it to me. Like you, I see it as the best alternative to violence.

I dunno about anyone else, but I'm about sick to death of living in the same nation as California, the epitome of all I hate about Leftist politics. Especially, I'm sick of being in the same nation with the Bay area. They probably feel the same way about me. I don't feel that I have the right to dictate to them how they want to live, nor do I feel they've the right to dictate to me. But, we've reached the point where we want to live under a very different sort of government, and compromise is less and less feasible every day. What suits the one group is absolute anathema to the other.

Oh I have to admit that the separation of the country sounds good to me. I would love to see the South break away again and go back to the constitutional form of government. The liberals fail to realize that life is about choices and everyone makes a choice in how they live it. Is it fair that I am taxed like hell because I work 84 hours a week and spend 9 months a year on a boat away from my family. No its not fair especially when liberals love to give my money to poor single mothers whom made bad decisions. I personaly think it would be fair if they were actually required to clean my house and mow my grass for the money I pay but that will never happen because that is to demeaning. What about me people You act like I am selfish for wanting less taxes but I consider the liberals selfish because they want to take my hard earned money. So unless these two sides come to an agreement there will more than likely be a civil war in the future. Oh and I assure You the Liberals will not do good when the split happens because socialism leads to laziness.

Your premis jumped instantly from a scale of weeks to years.

You are just in culture shock from seeing a world view composed of old mens lies crumble around you.

You took the red pill, I think you are going to Pop! Just relax and get it overwith.


"Stand back, I think he's going to blow!"

reply to post by daddyroo45


What if the only way a civil war type scenario would occur is if we naturally arrived at our current moment in our situation unassisted. What if we no longer posses the luxury of warring amongst ourselves. When one realizes the situation we are in, one might deduce that we have been deliberately tampered with and steered into our current dilemma.

I would believe only one of two things would occur in this scenario. We would be seduced back to sleep postponing our situation or truly horrible events will occur involving the entire world as well as our own inner Implosion.

The only way we could be seduced back is if the population of us still slumbering, ignorant & in denial were still greater in numbers than the awakened. For everything to be all right the situation requires the opposite. It costs us a great loss of life and perhaps a demolished world.

Which of our these futures appear more attractive to you?

Seemingly for most of us to survive we would have to depend on the ignorant and go back to sleep ourselves.

Wouldn't that be bitch?

~Hyp

reply to post by Cyberbian


The premis didn't change.I stated that the rift had grown deeper in those few weeks,and it seems to have continued to grow to this point.The 2000 elections seemed to me to be where the rift began.
If you have doubts as to the divisive nature of things.Check out a few online weapons and ammo dealers.The volume has been overwhelming.Many dealers have sold more inventory in the last month than they did all last year.
It's not lies I see crumbling,it's civilization as we know it.I didn't take the red pill...didn't need it...but you may need to take a shot of some Koolaid and relax.

reply to post by HypnoAsp


I could understand how some would prefer to stick their heads back in the sand.It would be easier,lives could be lived in ignorant bliss.The next few generations would pay the price for our peaceful slumber.
The few hold the power because the many allow it.There are to many people awake and aware now...I feel there is no turning back.

I don't think the country should secede from each other. One part liberal, one part conservative, that would be horrible! The USA was made for a difference of opinion on different issues whereas in other societies their freedom was restricted at the time of the revolutionary war. I think that our founding father's values and ideals should remain among all of us and rather than dividing us we should be united under any President that we have. I also feel that we should feel united with each other for a common cause because the USA is one of the if not the greatest nations in the world and that alone should be reason enough for us not to split apart from each other. I don't hate my fellow liberals or conservatives. I love them equally. I respect people with other opinions. Would you want to live in a country where everyone agreed with you?

reply to post by Frankidealist35


I agree that we should hold dearly to the values and ideals of our founding fathers.They over threw an oppressive government,to be free of taxation and state based religon.
They held to the truth that the states were soverign.The federal government answered to the states and the citizens therein.Now the states and citizens answer to the federal government.That is NOT what our founding fathers intended.
Secession was a viable recourse prior to the civil war.A few of the northern states seceeded from the union when votes didn't go their way.
This nation is as diverse as it is large.Things that work in New York City,probably won't work in Florence Alabama and it should not be forced on them if they don't want it.People are tired of government that doesn't answer to anyone.Barring the outlawing of political action committes and special interest lobbiests,and make congress answerable to the people again,there will be secession.
As far as living in a country where everyone agreed with me? Hummm...
I guess not. I would however like to live in a country where reasoning was used to solve problems.Not by empassioned zealotry or by indoctrinated rabble that refuse to think for themselves.

reply to post by daddyroo45


I've been considering this for a while now as a real possibility in the not too distant future with the way things have been going. Unfortunately I'm on the wrong side of the mason-dixon (below). Curious as to where you are.

reply to post by CapsFan8


I too live below the mason/dixon line. That in itself makes no difference.Where you live is not nearly as important as how you live.Ideology is the key.How you view the world around you.
There is a rift growing in this country.It's not racial or cultural,it's governmental. You have about half the people believing every word the government and their minions speak.While the other half believe that there is an ulterior motive for every move the government makes.
This creates,essentially ,two different competeing species as it were.Just take note of the animal kingdom. Living in harmony is impossible when resources are scarce.This causes one species to destroy the other,or they must seperate into other areas to continue to survive.


Are we not beginning to face similar circumstance in the way our country is being run? Should we pit ourselves against one another in a struggle for dominance or seperate the country for the survival of all?


Does anyone here believe that the idologies that are deeply ingrained in us all,can be overcome easily? What makes someone elses ideology a more valid solution to the worlds problems than yours?


I would really like to hear your point of view.There are always those that are willing to pick apart a valid point,(not you in particular)yet there are few willing to stand up and posit their stand.


Tell me what you think!!!