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Why do abductees have to educate skeptics?

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posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 06:08 AM
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reply to post by spacedout
 


While I agree with you on the topic of having childish remarks and being labelled mentally ill, I disagree that it is skeptics that are doing it.

A true skeptic will research every shard of evidence to determine whether or not you are telling the truth, while offering alterntives as to what the experience could have been. If you think its skeptics that are making these remarks, you are just as ignorant as those you are labelling.


Unfortunantly over the last few months, there have been more and more members that simply joined here to write stupid comments and bait other members into arguments. I do understand where you are coming from, I have many views (except mine are usually skeptical until I see evidence which challenges my views), which are hammered by totally pointless and childish remarks. The only thing we can really do about it, if it truly bugs you, is stay off the threads or dont create any more threads in which you think someone may reply like that.

And by the way, there is always the "report" button which alerts the mods to anything you may think is not a decent comment, let them know and they will take action




posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by spacecowgirl
reply to post by Malevolent_Aliens
 


Hi Spacecowgirl,


The truth is, they are not to be trusted. The truth is, they lied to me and removed my own child from my womb. Not a hybrid, but my own.


I'm not sure what you went through but I can only imagine, not all ET's are to be trusted, there are the good, the bad and the ugly. Some of them believe our DNA is rightfully theirs or they feel ownership over us, like we would over some animals. So taking a placenta would be like us taking chicken eggs from a chicken.I know it doesn't sound right and I'm not talking about the majority of ET's only a few species that feel that way from what I've learned. For whatever it's worth I'm sorry you had to go through whatever it is you went through.


Am I angry and bitter about it...you betcha!


I don't blame you, I wouldn't be surprised if I have had the same thing happen to me but was not allowed to remember. Keep in mind I have been visited by the good and the bad. It took me a long time to get my questions answered and finally they allowed me to remember, I was explained the different ET groups and what they were doing. The ET's I considered bad treated me carelessly from my perspective and those are the worst experiences of my life but they did help me conquer fear.

Those particular ET's do not look at it that way at all I was told. they feel as if they treated me normal like we would a cat or dog. But as I explained in one of my above posts we interpret things completely different from a human perspective and all encounters tend to be frightening to us especially if we are fully conscious.
I was always returned unharmed for the most part but if you only saw my life back then and now. I was angry as H-E-L-L
and lost and had nobody to turn to and didn't know WHY and what was going on, I even contemplated leaving the country and hiding or suicide,
I used to be religious and felt like God had abandoned me or there was no God. My life was a wreck I was living in fear 24/7 because I didn't understand.


After finally getting answers answers answers to my satisfaction from ET's that treated me very kindly I pondered a very long time about it and looking back now I realize some of these ET's look upon taking a human perhaps in the same way we take animals to a vet for a shot. Some of them don't look at taking us as bad or malevolent the same way we don't feel bad about taking an animal out of the wild or whatever. I'm sure we end up destroying that animals life phsycoligcally after returning it to the wild because it went through great trauma and fear but we didn't mean to hurt it maybe only study it.


Do I have the patience for skeptics after all the cr*p I have been through at the hands of aliens? No way No how!


I can understand that, this is life we have to roll with the punches wherever we may be. I would never come to ATS seeking therapy or sympathy, if someone is here for advice or to share their story well great but you won't get sympathy or comfort from some members on here. That is just the way it is, that's life and especially from an online forum like this. lol


When you next meet your lovely kind aliens could you please ask them to find my boy and bring him back to his Mother? They can keep all the hybrids they bred from me but can they bring my own boy back please? Could you please get them to tell my boy that his mother loves him? Can they give him a hug from me? Please?


Well I only have a few ET friends if you could even call them that-- I will share something with you that I don't normally share with anyone but since this is an online forum and I'm pretty much annoymous here why not. The ET's that regularly visit me have told me their relationship to me, we are family from past lives thousands of years back, their souls are only ahead of me. They are my guardian angels in a sense, they have told me not to worry about children that are aborted or taken before they are actually born because they do not have a soul yet. The soul is not placed in the body until near birth or even after in many cases. I wish there was more I could do for you and I'm sorry to hear about your boy, if I had a way of helping you I would of course. But I am powerless like the rest of us.

Oh I was also told that we all have family around us that continually watch over us, every prayer is heard and answered though maybe not always the way we expect them to be answered. I would send your thoughts of intent through prayer to your own guardian angels, they can bring you comfort.

Best Wishes!




[edit on 30-10-2008 by Malevolent_Aliens]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 06:54 AM
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reply to post by Malevolent_Aliens
 


Thank you, that was a lovely post.

Yes there is not much anyone can do. I see there is someone on this board holding meditation sessions to bring in alien contact!! He must be mad or totally ignorant of what he is bringing in. I feel very sorry for the people he is doing this to. Crazy!

Now, about the souls. You said: "they have told me not to worry about children that are aborted or taken before they are actually born because they do not have a soul yet. The soul is not placed in the body until near birth or even after in many cases. I wish there was more I could do for you and I'm sorry to hear about your boy, if I had a way of helping you I would of course. But I am powerless like the rest of us. "

They are the masters of cloning...not just bodies but souls. They often clone 4 or 5 souls from a large soul and insert it in different people around the world. Often there are many of you and me out there.

About my child. I knew the minute he was conceived. I felt his life force awaken in me instantly. They took him from my body at about 6 weeks in the most awful of ways. It was very traumatic. They let me visit him when he was "born". I tried to escape with him. I was hysterical. They woudn't let me. How do you escape from a UFO anyway?
A few years later, they let me meet with him. They were very nervous of what I might do. And that was the last contact they let me have.

Life is God given. Conception/life is from God, of God. It starts in a fetus at the moment of conception. A soul is inserted at some stage, but life is still of God. They took my son and they still have him. They have not looked after him well. He has had the worst of lives with them. I can never forgive them for that.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
The only thing we can really do about it, if it truly bugs you, is stay off the threads or dont create any more threads in which you think someone may reply like that.



I will not give in to the ignorant. Truth will always win.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by spacecowgirl
I will not give in to the ignorant. Truth will always win.


So what you're pretty much saying is that your point of view is correct and anyone with a differing opinion is wrong.....correct me if im wrong but isnt that ignorance?


I know its hard to prove personal experiences but everything else should be investigated from both sides first. Not just assumed that something is correct or incorrect because you personally believe in it

And if you truly believe what you just typed, why even start a thread to have a whinge about other in the first place? you should know that there are those that wont agree with you


[edit on 30/10/2008 by OzWeatherman]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 09:28 AM
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I was thinking the exact same thing as the OP when reading some of the nasty crap I have put up with this week posting about my abduction experiences. But I also agree that everyone needs a voice, a fair freedom of speech, and I don't want to stifle anyone's opinion on the particular topic at hand. So in my opinion, everyone has a right to talk, even the skeptics.

I didn't mind the people who brought up sleep paralysis even the ones who were so insistent on it as an explanation that they wouldn't hear anything else I had to say. I disagree with that opinion but it didn’t make my blood boil or anything. I even said, “hey… I looked into that as a possible explanation, but I have had physical evidence, after the fact, that leads me to believe in the validity of the abduction experience.” I have been my own skeptic at times as well.

What hurts me and pisses me off to the point where I either want to throw a brick through the computer screen or just give up on ATS all together is when they make the following remarks:

- You’re insane.
- You’re on drugs. (Yeah…because I was on drugs as a little kid… this is a life long thing.)
- You have a personality disorder and make it all up so you can feel like you’re part of a “special group” who got picked by the aliens. THIS ONE is the one that really burns my ass!!! It is the most ignorant, non-productive, skeptical approach to the issue.

In addressing the last point in greater detail: Some rapes are hoaxes. Some acts of violence are hoaxes (like the ATM / B on face girl last week.) Some UFO sightings are hoaxes. All these hoaxes are done by people who seek attention.

Attention seekers who are mentally unstable are the first ones to go running to a UFO show and be interviewed. Hey, they are nuts and have nothing to lose and it’s these fruitcakes that the general public generally “meets” when learning about the abduction phenomenon. I wince at most of the interviews I see on those shows with the fruity star-children / “I’m special” talk.

A doctor, lawyer, electrical engineer / scientist (like me), business owner, is never going to go on the discovery channel special on abductions on UFO week to talk about their story. I’m absolutely positive I would never appear in such a show with the attacks I have gotten on ATS, which is supposedly more open-minded than the general public.

BUT… what if you were really raped, for instance, and people had heard about a rape hoax in the news (and that’s all the news ever reported on). And you told someone you were raped and they said, “Oh… you're a liar... you're on drugs... you just want to be part of a ‘special group’! You just want attention and need to seek theropy for your mental disorder.”

I think that some of the ATS skeptics should keep that in their mind when authoring some of their posts. They are hurtful and mean, and stress people out worse than they already are from the trama of the experience itself.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 09:43 AM
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One additional thought…..

It’s amazing that people post that we just want to be in a ‘special club’ because we were 'picked' by the alien. Many times others and myself wrote about the comparison between us and a monkey in the rain forest who was tagged for study. We view ourselves in the same light as that monkey. Scientist really don’t think that monkey was ‘special’ and ‘picked’ it for study.

They grab a random sampling of primates (for instance), tag them and keep coming back to the ones they originally tagged because that’s how long term science research projects work. We, as humans, quite frequently follow generations of the same animals as well. We tracked the tagged one and when it gives birth we frequently tag the children for study.

My view of myself is not self-inflated!!!! I’m a friggin’ lab rat and I know it so stop insulting me by insinuating that I think I’m “special” to be in the abductees’ club.

What we should really be having in these threads, is a productive dialog regarding the likely reasons for the study, whether it be malevolent or benevolent, and discussions regarding who the heck these creatures are who are performing these studies. But, we spend most of our time defending / insulting ad nauseum and get nothing accomplished.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by spacecowgirl
 


Ooops! I seem to have touched a raw nerve or two. . . One minute you're saying that people should speak out about their experiences to educate us all, and the next you're saying that you don't care what we think! I'm confused.com. . .
All I said was that if you didn't like what debunkers said about your claimed abduction experiences simply keep them to yourself. What's the harm in that? Unless, of course, abductees only wish to preach to the converted?



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 

"preaching" huh?

I know that reply wasn't to me but as I just said:
"What we should really be having in these threads, is a productive dialog regarding the likely reasons for the study, whether it be malevolent or benevolent, and discussions regarding who the heck these creatures are who are performing these studies. But, we spend most of our time defending / insulting ad nauseum and get nothing accomplished."

The reason I stated above is why I post in those threads. Not to preach. Quite frankly I respect people's rights to be skeptics and debate the validity of abduction, that's fine. But that is FAR from the reason I am posting on those threads. The skeptical view is merely a distraction from the topics we wish to discuss. Can you blame us for defending ourselves?

Going back to my original analogy… Imagine a group is formed for rape victims to discuss their experiences for the purposes of group support and perhaps the attempt to understand the mindset of the criminal sexual offender. But first they have to suffer a deluge of skeptical people who want to call them liars, drug addicts, and loons. And when they do defend the fact that they were, in actuality, raped are told they are just there to "preach". WTF!! (sorry for the acronym use, but it's appropriate here!)

Most of the abduction threads do not start with: “Let’s discuss the validity of alien abduction”. Generally the poster is quite sure of what they experienced and wants to discuss aspects of it that aren’t really calling into question whether or not they are nuts.


Typo edit.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by JonInMichigan]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 10:07 AM
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Though many abductees are sincere and many actually believe they were abducted by extra-terrestrials, their ranks are also haven for scam artists, those with low self-esteem, fantasy prone personlities and out-right scammers who would want the reader to believe they are anything other than who they are.

So it seems to me to be an impossible task on both sides to tell with whom you are really dealing.

Does it make a 'true abductee believer' uncomfortable to know that sitting at a lecture, on their right is a scammer, on their left is a person with delusions, in front of them a person with intense fantasies and behind them a person with temporal lobe epilepsy who has hallucinations.?

It would seem to me the 'true abductee' would be as skeptical as anyone else because their ranks are full of disingenuous individuals.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by Syandos
 


I believe I addressed your point as well. The fruitcakes on TV and all over the net actually turn me off of talking about my honest experiences.

I also mentioned that I spend quite a bit of time attempting to debunk my own experiences which has turned out, not how I expected, but in support of a true physical experience.

But – let’s suppose 75% of the people who claimed to be abducted are full-of-###.
Does it invalidate the topic of discussion at hand?

This reminds me of the Joe-The-Plummer thing. Does it matter that Joe didn’t make $250k to have the “spread the wealth” position of the candidate. Isn’t it true there are people who run small businesses who do make just over $250k via the sweat of their brow?

Isn’t it true that there are some REAL abductees out there who want to have real discussions? Does each and every abductee’s (real or not) character and honesty need to be attacked and validated (which is impossible) to have an honest discussion about abductions. i.e. why they do it, etc.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by JonInMichigan
 


"I know that reply wasn't to me but as I just said:
"What we should really be having in these threads, is a productive dialog regarding the likely reasons for the study, whether it be malevolent or benevolent, and discussions regarding who the heck these creatures are who are performing these studies."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What about productive dialogue about whether or not these experiences occur in our every day reality? You seem to have convinced yourself that it's all down to the aliens. Wouldn't you want to know if you were having hallucinations (as some abductees clearly are), or if you weren't the unwitting lab rat in some government experiment?
It is the fact that most abductees only want to talk to the converted and will not discuss any other alternatives other than the "kidnapped by aliens" hypothesis which debunkers and some sceptics find annoying.
I'm not saying any abductees are openly lieing but what I am saying is the desire for the truth should come first not the wish to prop up an alien abduction theory.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 10:52 AM
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I don't know how self moderation would work. Some of us actually, though furious at the personal attacks skeptics often resort to, and someone definitely comes to mind with this, would have just as hard a time self moderating the thread, and wish the moderators were quicker to act. I don't like heated discussions and name calling, and have reported the person only to discover most of what they say remains. But on the other hand, partly due to feeling threatened instantly by confrontation and partly due to not wishing to hurt anyones feelings, even the one being very rude and insulting, I wouldn't be able to moderate it myself. I know others would however and so I feel that self moderation may be ideal for the "grey area". I'm not sure if the spirit of the grey category truly reflects what I think it does. However, there is another forum I participate on where detailed and very informative accounts are given, without the presence of these kind of skeptics. One of the most informative guys has been able to put across a lot of information this way. Just when his thread gets bogged down by page after page of paranoia, the brilliance starts again and goes full swing. I only send a few his way due to the fact he doesn't have to deal with things the way we do here, and consequently it goes really deep, albeit at times weird in a wonderful kind of way with everyones input. I was hoping that this was what was meant by the grey area, where proof was not demanded and where someone should be able to go as deeply into the rabbit hole as they can with their experiences. Unfortunately, skeptics feel that they have the right to get on and repeatedly abuse the posters in the grey area.
As a side note though, I still wouldn't start my own thread because even if self moderation could occur in the personal testimony category (the grey area) I wouldn't be able to deal with even an aggressive poster by booting him from the thread. I worry about their feelings even when I shouldn't. Lol.

Edit to add: there are many reasons experiencers bring their stories up on forums. One, is to explore what is happening outside the conventional box so to speak to try and scratch beneath the surface. There are others who often help to shed light on it. Two, because this is the truth that many are experiencing, and not sharing it would mean very few would ever understand what is happening. Three, there are others who are experiencing this, and sometimes they are just becoming aware. Posting experiences such as this provides invaluable help to others.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by mystiq]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by mystiq
 


" skeptics feel that they have the right to get on and repeatedly abuse the posters in the grey area."
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Are you sure that you aren't confusing sceptics with debunkers?
A sceptic will listen to your story then offer you a few alternative theories for you to take away and ponder over, whereas a debunker will instantly resort to abuse and mickey taking. Debunkers see themselves as the last stalwarts of the current scientific paradym where as sceptics just want to get to the bottom of the mystery, and unfortunately that means if they come across certain information which hints at a different theory than that of the alien abduction then they will say so.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


This is a big problem in Ufology. Most of the researchers want all the cases to be extraterrestrial to the point of not even considering any other explanation. The area does need research, not just hypnotic regression stories that could be fantasy based.
The abductee stories with physical evidence on the victims is quite interesting, and that should be looked at. It should also be determined if the wounds are inflicted by oneself or another person before stating aliens.

No one wants to hear they may have a mental illness. That can be a real stigma when trying to give someone the help they need. This should also be addressed if we want to find out what is really going on.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 11:15 AM
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I think it's all in the debate, and claims by UFO believers get more extreme with time. They're trying to rewrite history (rightly or wrongly) in saying that the Bible had UFOs. This is going to cause some amazement in the anti UFO camp, and this is a debate as well as the discussion. You do not only want one sided discussions or debates so you need both sides. I've done my share of trolling UFOs in my time and have kinda stopped, but I think you need to differentiate with constructive (even antagonistic) debate and people just having a laugh. If I had had it pointed out to me that my glib comments were trolling, I would have thought about it and stopped much sooner. Just u2u them and explain that they are trolling and not being inovlved.

IMHO (I still believe 'abductees' need a stint in mental hospital, but hey)!



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 11:26 AM
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I'm not sure which terminology is most correct, but I do know they call themselves skeptics.
I sit here on my computer trying to form an opinion on whether someone who persists in name calling and rudeness is being paid to try and derail a thread, or if they are somehow dysfunctional and natural bullies that can take this activity to the next level, online. Haven't a clue. There is certainly a purpose for skeptics who bring in other view points and try and suggest other evidence for what can be happening. But a stalemate occurs when someone's experience, as often happens, doesn't fit into their categories, (ie. balloons, sleep paralysis) and then they resort to attacking the poster personally. Such as calling them schizos or delusional fools. They persist repeating their attacks over and over again, often until the thread is compromised. Though this thread is in the grey area, and the person would love to, with the help of others, get into discussing the more important implications of their experience, the purpose behind ets activities. The nature, either beneficial or hostile, of et to one) the planet and its ecology, and two) the sentient life forms here. Some of the ideas are naturally radical and can go into the whole nature of the universe, life, contracts before birth.
Some experiences are negative and frightening. I, for one, had 2 unusual periods that were missed for nearly 3 months in a life time of a perfectly regular cycle except for my pregnancies. I had no reason to expect a pregnancy in any way. But I had had markers for abductions that I had ignored at that point, and continued to ignore almost unnaturally even when I began to watch documentaries on abductees and "Fire in the Sky". Whenever the idea would come, it would disappear and it would be months later that I would even have another moment of examining it briefly only to have it disappear again. I could never hold that thought. Until my children where sharing sightings of crafts and my protective instinct kicked in.
Edit to add: others talk about meeting their children and it sends chills through me. Though it has been a hardship, my children are precious nonetheless and even the thought of this behavior on behalf of the visitors is heartbreaking.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by mystiq]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by kidflash2008
 


"This is a big problem in Ufology. Most of the researchers want all the cases to be extraterrestrial to the point of not even considering any other explanation."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you to a point. There is this idiotic notion that it has to be either a real alien abduction or the witness is an outright liar. There's no grey area! There's not many researchers who will look at the case and investigate whether the witness is just experiencing something out of context or whether they are in alternate states of consciousness brought on by being enveloped in natural magnetic fields for example.
It's aliens or it's nothing and that's a shame because everyone loses out.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 11:48 AM
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The grey category for threads is a place to explore, in depth, without skeptics repeating the same arguments over and over again and name calling, for personal experiences to be given without testimony (because there never will be any unless government and et do a joint disclosure!) and shared with others who often have much to add. "Grey" is only being used here as a safe platform for bringing out personal experiences. But the safety is being compromised by those who persist on derailing the threads.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by mystiq]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by mystiq
 


Hi Mystiq let me tell you about myself. I am actually the illegitimate child of Queen Victoria although royalty today refuse to listen to my story. At the age of four I discovered I had psychic powers and could read minds and kill people just by looking at them. This led to the army recruiting me as a spy who now mans the British Moon station Alpha 1.

Are you impressed? Should I now start my own thread where only people who truly believe in me and my mystical powers can post and discuss just how great, weird and amazing I am?
Or should I allow others to post and tell me what they think with the realisation that I may be kidding myself, or lying, or simply deluded? Is it a good idea to let people who have these experiences and make outlandish claims simply go on deluding themselves when there may be a simple answer?

"By the way, I don't work on Alpha 1 anymore after the incident with the shotgun and the porthole! Well, they did say it was bulletproof glass!"



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