Obama 2001 Redistribution of Wealth Audio Uncovered

reply to post by CreeWolf


The other side of that is that most supporters of capitalism are also hypocrites.

Free markets are good and all....UNTIL... I run my company to the ground...then the government should step in and save my bussiness...

So all of those that LOVE our absolute capitalist system, I bet the part they love the most is the chance they get at PRIVATIZING their profits WHILE SOCIALIZING their losses!!

So who's the socialist here?

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Bunch]

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


I would suggest you do a little more research on Karl Marx and what Marxist and Socialism truly mean.

Karl Marx – Marxism

en.wikipedia.org...

Socialism - Types

en.wikipedia.org...

Voluntary Community Service is more Democratic then Marxist and or Socialist. Under a Marxist and or Communist/Socialist society, Community Service would be a duty and or mandatory of all Citizens.

John F Kennedy Said it best “Ask not what your Country can do for you but what you can do for your Country. (Selfless vs Selfish)

Again on the Tax policy – His plan is no more progressive then McCain’s or any President previous. Regardless of Party the Tax structure has been relatively the same for decades. Using you Logic I have Compared Both Obama’s and McCain’s Tax Plans, I am having a hard time seeing why Obama’s plan is Marxist and McCain’s is not.

The Things that put him over the edge… This is more Fascist then Marxist. Both sides are guilty of this. Politics as Usual

He disagrees with our Constitution…. This I find Hard to believe. He is a constitutional Lawyer who has been fighting for the rights of Main Street for most of his adult life. Read Article III section 1-3 of the Constitution for the powers of the Judicial Branch

www.constitutionfacts.com...

He wants more government in our lives… Remember We the People are the True Government. The Executive, The Legislative and the Judicial Branch of our Great Country work for US and not the other way around.

So from time to time we need to remind them of this fact by cleaning house.

So David Alinsky described Obamas speech as Marxist and that makes him Marxist. I know you can do better then that. I found his speech to be a call to Arms. If we want Change we have to fight for it. If we want a great education for children we have to fight for it. “We have to be Selfless vs Selfish”

We are all in this together.

He wants the government involved in even more of our lives… I agree, however; Government is already a major part of our lives. While we have been fighting over who is going to President, IRAQ, Afghanistan, Terrorism, and the Economy President Bush and Congress have taken a lot of constitutional rights away.

Saul Alisky beliefs are his own and not Obama’s. Besides, elements of McCains speech sounded just like Obama’s

I have traveled all over the world and everyone says the same thing. There system of government is the best. Your view on Socialism and Marxism is nothing but brain washing. Here in American and around the world we have been taught to hate anything that is not like our own. This is a defeat us attitude that will eventually destroy us all.

I truly believe that an Injustice to one is an Injustice to all.

According to your belief system I would be considered a Marxist.

Keep an open Mind!

reply to post by CreeWolf


Oh CreeWolf how you entertain me.

reply to post by Bunch


It is funny. I think the bailout was complete bull. Let idiots who run their companies into the ground fail. Someone else will rise to take their place. You won't get that chance in Socialism. You will always be NO BETTER than anyone else around you. And, THEREFORE, in the long run, YOU will receive LESS.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I am SO happy I've entertained you. That means I'm getting through????

Originally posted by Bunch
I bet the part they love the most is the chance they get at PRIVATIZING their profits WHILE SOCIALIZING their losses!!

aka Corporate America

When maximizing profit is the pie in the sky, exploiting the worker is a means to an end.

Originally posted by CreeWolf

I am SO happy I've entertained you. That means I'm getting through????

I am way too corrupted to allow that to happen I encourage your continual effort though. Perhaps one day I will see the light. Any recommended reading material or media source?

How about The Leviathan and Rush Limbaugh? That a start?

reply to post by Justice123


Taken straight from www.barackobama.com...

"Barack Obama and Joe Biden will work to inspire Americans from all walks of life to serve and will help build the architecture for them to do it."

His ideology is all laid out in his plan and he is describing socialism in his speeches.

His ideology is Marxist, look at the people that he surrounded himself with.

As far as he disagrees with the constitution he says it in this audio that this thread was started on, He thinks the constitution is "negative liberties" and about what the government can't do rather than what the government can do. This conversation that is presented in the audio is talking about the best way to go about wealth re-distribution. He thinks the courts should be utilized in this and the best way to go about this is to legislate it. It is all there in the audio.

I already know that the progressive tax plan is socialist, and it needs to change to a fair or flat tax or something like it.

Wealth re-distribution is not what America was founded on it was what it was founded to get away from. We The People have lost our way and have allowed the government to take over. We need to get it back.

Here is a quote from the article David Alisnky wrote:

Barack Obama's training in Chicago by the great community organizers is showing its effectiveness. It is an amazingly powerful format, and the method of my late father always works to get the message out and get the supporters on board. When executed meticulously and thoughtfully, it is a powerful strategy for initiating change and making it really happen. Obama learned his lesson well.

Also Saul Alinsky originated the term "community organizer"

Here is what you said,

So David Alinsky described Obamas speech as Marxist and that makes him Marxist. I know you can do better then that. I found his speech to be a call to Arms. If we want Change we have to fight for it. If we want a great education for children we have to fight for it. "We have to be Selfless vs Selfish"

According to your belief system I would be considered a Marxist.

That isn't according to my belief system that I would consider you a Marxist, That is what you are, you just described it the only thing you didn't do was come out and say it.

I don't view you in a negative light because of it or dislike you because of it, we live in America and that is your right to choose what you believe. You agree with Socialism which summed up best is equality for all, no classes (to paraphrase). Sounds great, but doesn't work. Besides Marx's idea of a communist society has never been implemented in the way that he would have wanted.

It all sounds good on paper and is very well intentioned, but it doesn't work.

Over the past 100 years we have already moved to a more progressive state, and it isn't working.

America was founded to be a land of opportunity where you have the freedom to succeed and freedom to fail. The semi socialist nations that exist in Europe are way different in a lot of ways.

So far Capitalism has been the one that works that benefits everybody, it has worked so well that China is starting to move to a more capitalist structure and so is a lot of the world.

The reason why is because before we are a group we are individuals, we are individuals that make up a group.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Hastobemoretolife]

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
Besides Marx's idea of a communist society has never been implemented in the way that he would have wanted.

It all sounds good on paper and is very well intentioned, but it doesn't work.

Something to think about

is all.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Human nature will not allow for the Utopian society that Marx dreamed up. That is exactly what Communism is supposed to be a Utopian society where everybody is equal.

Human Nature is not that simple in fact we are still after tens of thousands of years we still learning about Human Nature.

We as Humans are imperfect and we all have differing ideas. Group think effectively stops the advancement of the Human Race because Communism promotes group think.

I edited my post above yours to include this

We are individuals first and a group second.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Hastobemoretolife]

Well, if our government is going to stop spending so much money, then we need to cutback on our huge military, and stop playing worlds cop, and use our military as defense, as it is supposed to be. Then we can end the war on drugs, stop putting so many people in jail, start taxing drugs and eliminate the drug cartels. We could also eliminate Medicaid with a workable nationaly healthcare plan. That might be a start.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


First, I should be more clear, I am not a Marxist. I am sure you know that Marx did not dream up Utopian philosophy nor did he dream up Socialism. He was a great thinker and he did develop is own interpretation of socialism/communism. I agree with many aspects of his earlier work, but I am not a Marxist. My personal ideology embraces socialism along side anarchism (which of course is as general as I could be using umbrella terms) which I borrow from many great thinkers. I'd like to think my vision is more unique then not.

I understand your concerns about these philosophies. They are the same ones I read every day on ATS. That might be group-think too!

Anyways, I don't agree with the whole 'mindless worker-bee drone' scenario. That would depend. Perhaps so with Marxists later ideas, but not true to every possible implementation of Socialism. I also, do not agree with your take on human nature.

If you want to see human nature in its most natural, go to Papua New Guinea, or visit the Aborigines of Australia. Society is all about changing, controlling, or focusing the rules of human nature. So thats a moot point IMHO.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

The government is why the poor even exist. It will never provide, it only takes. Do all of you yuppie do gooder socialist not realize this has been tried before for 50 years in the Soviet Union. Did the poor in the countries under that system dissapear?

All of the regulation and taxes mandated by the government is what is destroying our countries economy. Its why there are no jobs for the poor, and their phony central banking and fiat money are why prices are so high. Obama and McCain are both big government fascist. They will both expand the government. Boycott the election they cant govern without a mandate from the people.

reply to post by Karlhungis


Becuse this is a system of government known as communism. The rich are not taking money from the middle class, the rich employee people to work for them, they get paid the market rate, that is capitalism. The Ceo gets paid more than the average worker because he does more, has more education and alot more responsibility.

So you want everyone to be equal? You want street walking crack addicts and doctors to be paid the same by the state? You want to given a list of how much food you are alotted? If you try to purchase more than you are allowed, you will be sent to a work camp. How would you like to be assigned a job far away from where you live to help the state?

I have a friend that escaped communism, there were propaganda posters all over her town, they looked exactly like the barry posters of HOPE, she is frieghtened of what she see happening. She sees these brainwashed kids singing the praises of obama and it reminds her of her communist home where they were forced to sign to their leaders daily.

Communism only works for those that are on top, you my friend are just a pleebe and will feel the iron grip on your neck in short time, that is communism. So its fair to take away all of the money of the rich and give it to those less fortunate? That is stealing. No one has a right to do that, if they do, all is lost for sure.

reply to post by Comind

I too would rather see a 'fair use/consumption tax' as opposed to the current income theft (tax) system. Was just running the numbers though and the only way Buffet's secretary was paying 30% in taxes would be if he/she took absolutely NO deductions, lived in a state with a high tax rate and made about $250,000/year. I make about $93k and only pay 22.6% (includes federal and state income taxes) and that is BEFORE deductions. One's tax bracket is not indicative of the total percent of income paid to the federal coffers. Imagine how low I could get them if I were really savvy in regards to tax law!

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


You say you embrace socialism/anarchism? What the heck is that? So you think that those that have more should have their money/posessions striped from them and given to those that have none or less than them?

Where does the anarchy come into it? If they wont willing give up their things, you have the right to take them?

Cool, I have been waiting for a world like this, see, I am stronger, trained and have many guns, so I will come to you and just take what you have by force, there is no law against it right? If I see someone having more than me, I will beat them to within a inch of their lives and take what i need. We are talking about anarchy after all. So when I see all the tough skinny little punks looting stores, I would shot them and take their stuff, maybe I would even make them load up my car by force.

There wont be any police, so I can do whatever I want right? Man that would be awsome.

reply to post by Justice123


Obarry doesnt like the bill of rights at all, he likens them to something negative in that the government gets nothing from it and it actually takes power away, that will have to dealt with under his administration.

reply to post by never_tell

WOW! You really need some serious help, man. I couldn't help but be shocked by your words. You speak as if the rich were the cause of all the crises in the U.S.; yup, it was the rich that overextended their credit, it was the rich that bought homes they KNEW they could never afford, etc, etc.
All I hear is "they need to pay their 'fair share'"; what, may I ask, is unfair about being in the 33-35% federal tax bracket while the majority of the US is in the 15-25% brackets? Are you saying it should be a flat percent, with no deductions? That certainly would be 'fair', wouldn't it...but then you would say the poor are bearing an 'unfair' burden.
"They didn't work for it"...do you think Warren Buffet just woke up one morning and had billions of dollars in net worth? There are a few which did nothing to earn what they have (i.e. Paris Hilton and the like) but for the most part the 'evil rich oppressors' started with little and worked their asses off to get what they have...I hope I can do that and not be punished because of it. "They didn't work for it"; yet that is EXACTLY what you and so many others are prescribing for America...let them do the work so others can benefit. Do you not see the irony in your statements?
Raist has got it on the money! If I could star all of your posts thus far I would. I too was in a bad spot...actually receiving food stamps/government assistance for a while because I was out of work; I felt bad about it though, I don't want others to work for me. I am happy to say that I got myself out of that situation, and fast; went back to school, earned a master's degree and have a decent job. I don't make huge amounts of money, but I am damn proud of what I have accomplished and I don't rely on others efforts to provide for myself or my family. I will continue to work MY ass off to succeed, and if someone wants to take that away, I DARE them to try!

Originally posted by stinkhorn
reply to post by Karlhungis

 

Becuse this is a system of government known as communism. The rich are not taking money from the middle class, the rich employee people to work for them, they get paid the market rate, that is capitalism. The Ceo gets paid more than the average worker because he does more, has more education and alot more responsibility.

We dont need communism we need a fair system. The rich are taking from the middle class if you cant see that then you most not be very old.

A CEO and executives should be paid more of course, but they should not take so much that they break there companies and not leave a decent wage for the workers who produce what the company makes.

The governments job is to protect the people against tyranny in all its forms and that includes corporate tyranny. We dont have the power or unity anymore to do it ourselves because the corporations have through the media talked you into believing unions are not for your best interests. Since the 80's executives and CEO's have raped our country and left it the husk you see today. When I was growing up my mother was able to stay at home and my father made enough working at G.M. to take care of us. This is almost impossible today and back then GM made record profits. The difference between then and now is not what they pay the workers but how much more of the pie those greedy people at the top take.

Yeah. H will tax these big rich companies and then they will compensate by raising their prices. Just lovely. Trickle down applies in many ways. Positive and negative and this will be the negative.