The Real Crash - 30% Of Worlds Hedge Funds to Collapse Market Braced for "Sheer Panic" Monday, page 3
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reply posted on 26-10-2008 @ 11:08 PM by bruxfain
Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
I know for a fact that hedge funds made a killing with the market. Well many did. I see them going on just fine. They shorted the market pretty well. BTW.....Anybody posting this info know a hedge fund manager? Just curious.


I know hedge funds want you to believe they are doing just fine but I have heard this is their worst year on record. The thing about hedge funds is this, they don't often have a net long or short position, they are hedge funds. So, a down market doesn't necessarily earn them money and a up market doesn't usually make them money.

Hedge funds carry a market neutral position to acheive minimal exposure to changes in value of the underlying asset and that debt, futures and options to leverage their position and generate cash flows. Their intention is not to invest in other companies, but only their own. They are parasites. Sometimes they act as hired financial mercenaries to drive currencies and stocks and even whole states to ruin if the price is right. Like they tried to do to the dollar and how they tried to use oil as a weapon against the west.
But now these fools must be dropping dead from heart attacks because they know they've been jacked for real.

Hedge funds are unwinding their positions, which I don't think can ever be considered business as usual for them. They won't be just fine.

But the real economies of the world will be just fine.

The rumors that the hedge fund managers used to drop are now going to kill their funds and their operations. What you are witnessing is what it looks like when a world and way of life is taken out behind the barn and shot.


reply posted on 27-10-2008 @ 01:34 AM by Z.S.P.V.G.
reply to post by stander



people......the 'markets' are where they want your attention. on those little numbers and percentage swings. i admit, i'm watching every day too, but only as theater. the 'markets' do not reflect the true global economic calamity.

you should all know this.

the 'markets' are as intangible as the worthless electronic numbers and stocks they represent. it's theater. CNBC and the like are similar to those sunday morning NFK shows. theater tied to the fake thing it represents.

believe me, this is all miss-direction, slight of hand. something massive is happening and soon will be on our doorsteps. i predict the NWO.


reply posted on 27-10-2008 @ 01:45 AM by seabisquit
reply to post by Dermo



Its not the stupidity of capitalism,its the people who have been allowed to run rough-shod over the market with little or no regulation,starting back when Clinton repealed the Glass-Steigle Act. This allowed the previously illegal derivitive and credit default funds.

These people would have been jailed back in the 80's for what they have done in the past 15 years.

edit misspellings
[edit on 27-10-2008 by seabisquit]

[edit on 27-10-2008 by seabisquit]


reply posted on 27-10-2008 @ 09:56 AM by stander
reply to post by MischeviousElf


The "sheer panic" subsided in England and Germany: FTSE is down by 0.48% and Dax by 1.3%. The sheer Monday panic hasn't still reach NYSE. Dow gained and then, out of respect for the fallen comrades elsewhere, lost some weight -- about 52 points (0.62%) as I type.

Don't worry. We get there. There is a whole week of trading ahead.



reply posted on 27-10-2008 @ 11:36 AM by cpdaman
if hedgies unload the majority by friday this COULD put in a bottom in the financial world of stocks- however earnings will be poor going forward for a long time, so it' s not like they will recover in a v shaped fashion, more like an L.

Also are there any other large holders of stocks out there who may face margin calls in the future (after hedgies) , as the leverage continues to unwind, and pressure to sell to come up with some $ to pay creditors continues.

Finally the fed has increased the money supply (M1) as per the st. louis fed website. Seems the fed can't direct where this money will go or wether this can outpace the deflationary forces of defaults and debt destruction. The new money will probably flow into the bond markets by bond speculators and not lead to price inflation, like many seem to fear. Also the capital injected into banks via the bailout will probably by spent on mergers instead of bank lending. The high level of consumer debt combined with changes in consumer attitudes and a fast deteriorating jobs market would make me believe the banks would rather not lend- for fear of not getting paid back.

Deflation is the friend of bond markets and depressions and it seems like the elite bond speculators like to stay in the shadows as the world collapses around them while consolidation of smaller weaker firms occur, and the MSM focus is on the stock markets.

Some fear hyperinflation will be coming, but that is a POLITICAL DECISION, if you look at history. First we have deflation and a continuation of the 25 year bond bull market. the political decsion to hyperinflate would come AFTER the dollar based world is unhinged-probably thru opec dropping the petro dollar, then the dollar decision to hyperinfllate would have less collateral damage to the world and the elite money could flow into agriculture commodity's or gold (gold would probably still be legal for them but not you) before the massive loss of purchasing power (hyperinflation occurs)

[edit on 27-10-2008 by cpdaman]


reply posted on 27-10-2008 @ 08:22 PM by MischeviousElf
Originally posted by LowLevelMason
Originally posted by MischeviousElf
The Markets will be very differant and probably all closed by Friday.


Preserved so that you don't try to edit it. Since you want to make such a bold prediction, will you describe what you classify as being "very different"?

You were wrong today and the chances are overwhelmingly not in your favor for being right by Friday. I'm going to hold you to it that all the markets will stop trading and close due your predicted economic Armageddon, and also hold you to what you mean by "very different" if you give a concrete definition of what that means - which you probably wont.

If the major markets are all closed early by Friday due to economic doom, I will come here and personally praise your foresight and ability to predict the future of the markets. If they are not, I am going to point it out and ask you to please stop trying to fear monger. Not that you will.

4 days and counting, see ya then!

[edit on 27-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]



Lowlevel mason what are you on about?

Can you ever show one time ive edited a post to change anything ive put online.

I really take offence at that.

The DOW Closed down over 200 points today and stated 12% or more of the entire wealth of the HKI index was lost?

Drops of 200 are BIG now as the Dow has been so ravaged by recent weeks... you don't seem to be making any sense.

It will be under 8000 points if this happens again tomorrow two big days like last week 700 + falls and were at the 6000 I originally warned about.

Anyhow its 2.30am where I am I will take you up on your challenge and post a proper reply tomorrow, quote that too, hey write it on a piece of paper to prove it, that is a worthless toilet paper and was a stock holding till this morning.

Me doom and gloom? don't shoot the messenger just facts.

U.S. stocks slumped to their lowest levels in 5-½ years, as investors fretted about the severity of a global recession. The S&P 500 is on track for its worst month ever in the post-World War 2 Era

CNBC

That is from CNBC Asia Markets Reports as they begin to open being Tuesday there.

and further same source

Japan's Nikkei continued to bounce around a day after hitting a 26-year closing low


A 26 yr closing low.

Vix is currently at or CBOE 80.6 after closing at end of DOW trading at 79.13 Monday showing Panic is increasing.

That proves panic it is the indicator of such a thing,

Elf.

I will reply to your post properly tomorrow, but the above is enough in itself really.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by MischeviousElf]


reply posted on 27-10-2008 @ 11:05 PM by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by seabisquit



Dermo is Right! Many crooks working at very high levels in banks have been arrested since 2006 and a number have received jail sentences after extradition for money laundering under anti-terrorism laws. Bankers are, also for this reason, not too pleased lately as they had been living under the impression that they could get away with just about anything, doing what they considered 'business as usual'. Not so anymore, we should see them cleaning up their act if the European Global Governance Initiative seizes this occasion to take power respective to these matters.

Just look at the sub primes and see what many bankers were really doing: Selling your mortgage 4 times in sliced up leveraged sections as derivative financial products - using the credibility of their own institution to get investors to believe that real underlying assets existed, but there was no real mortgage behind these financial derivatives.

The real financial scandal buried underneath the alleged over lending to poor people using variable rate mortgages called 'sub primes' is that the mortgage bank prospectively gets paid FOUR TIMES per mortgage:

Payment #1:
Down payment and subsequent income stream from the householder granted the mortgage.

Payment #2:
A discounted payment from the ‘mortgage collectiviser’ (such as Lehman Brothers or Bear Stearns) which buys the mortgage at a discount from the mortgage bank and then sells it on to Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, which then places the mortgage in a trust, which then creates Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDOs) after collectivization with other mortgages (or even with dud paper), and then splits the CDOs into tranches (slices), which are then multiplied creating a ‘basket’ of pools of tranches which are sold off to institutions, especially carousel participating institutions abroad which didn’t originally do their due diligence, with the resulting avalanche of completely worthless assets being propped up alone by the NAMES OF THE INSTITUTIONS marketing them.

Of course, from the earliest stage of this avalanche, the owners of the ‘assets’ beyond the original mortgage bank have sold them ‘without recourse’ to the holder of the original mortgage.

Therefore, if the mortgagee defaults, so that the ORIGINAL asset has become worthless, none of the parties ‘downstream’ is any the wiser. They just keep on marketing successive tranches of these fake ‘assets’ ON THE UNCHECKED ASSUMPTION that the original mortgage is still intact.

Payment #3:
Since the bank continues to hold the associated Universal Commercial Code 1 document that goes with the original mortgage and does not ‘travel’ with the subsequent hypothecations, the bank is in a position to sell the mortgage a second time, to a third party (which starts the replication process beyond the mortgage bank all over again).

Payment #4:
Finally, the bank of course continues to demand the repayments from the mortgagee. Should the mortgagee default, and foreclosure occurs, the bank hopes to be in a position to repossess the property, whereupon it becomes a realtor and proceeds to sell it or to provide a mortgage against it from scratch (which would open up a further three prospective payments for the mortgage bank in accordance with the above sequence).

In such cases, people facing repossession should demand that the TOP COPY of the mortgage document be presented to the Court.

Since the bank has sold the mortgage on, it may not be able to comply with this demand, in which case the repossession should be adjudged to be null and void.


reply posted on 28-10-2008 @ 08:40 AM by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by Z.S.P.V.G.



I predict a world wide ban on religion. Then we will all see trouble on a scale never before seen in the history of man. Remember this when it happens.
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