The Real Crash - 30% Of Worlds Hedge Funds to Collapse Market Braced for "Sheer Panic" Monday

Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
I know for a fact that hedge funds made a killing with the market. Well many did. I see them going on just fine. They shorted the market pretty well. BTW.....Anybody posting this info know a hedge fund manager? Just curious.

I know hedge funds want you to believe they are doing just fine but I have heard this is their worst year on record. The thing about hedge funds is this, they don't often have a net long or short position, they are hedge funds. So, a down market doesn't necessarily earn them money and a up market doesn't usually make them money.

Hedge funds carry a market neutral position to acheive minimal exposure to changes in value of the underlying asset and that debt, futures and options to leverage their position and generate cash flows. Their intention is not to invest in other companies, but only their own. They are parasites. Sometimes they act as hired financial mercenaries to drive currencies and stocks and even whole states to ruin if the price is right. Like they tried to do to the dollar and how they tried to use oil as a weapon against the west.
But now these fools must be dropping dead from heart attacks because they know they've been jacked for real.

Hedge funds are unwinding their positions, which I don't think can ever be considered business as usual for them. They won't be just fine.

But the real economies of the world will be just fine.

The rumors that the hedge fund managers used to drop are now going to kill their funds and their operations. What you are witnessing is what it looks like when a world and way of life is taken out behind the barn and shot.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Again I cant say this strongly enough this is when the true crash will occur, and it seems like its days away from starting.

According to your "headline," the true crash will occur on Monday when $1.7 trillion gets unloaded domestically.

Over in Japan, the market is mixed as I type.

Mixed?

What's wrong with this world?

Originally posted by pteridine
When the world finally weathers this mess, what should be done to prevent the next cycle?

Look to Canada's regulatory systems. We are not going to escape this mess by any stretch of the imagination as we got sucked into "looser" mortgage aplication in the 2005 through 2008 era. Nor are we going to escape the world tsunami circling the globe.

But if you look at the big picture, we have the most sound banking system in the world today. Why? Proper regulation.

JK

Originally posted by leo123
But if you look at the big picture, we have the most sound banking system in the world today. Why? Proper regulation.

I suppose the EU brass came knocking on the White House door with suggestions to make it even better.

_______________

Japanese traders came to their senses with about thirty minutes of trading left. NIKKEI: -4.04 %

reply to post by stander


people......the 'markets' are where they want your attention. on those little numbers and percentage swings. i admit, i'm watching every day too, but only as theater. the 'markets' do not reflect the true global economic calamity.

you should all know this.

the 'markets' are as intangible as the worthless electronic numbers and stocks they represent. it's theater. CNBC and the like are similar to those sunday morning NFK shows. theater tied to the fake thing it represents.

believe me, this is all miss-direction, slight of hand. something massive is happening and soon will be on our doorsteps. i predict the NWO.

reply to post by Dermo


Its not the stupidity of capitalism,its the people who have been allowed to run rough-shod over the market with little or no regulation,starting back when Clinton repealed the Glass-Steigle Act. This allowed the previously illegal derivitive and credit default funds.

These people would have been jailed back in the 80's for what they have done in the past 15 years.

edit misspellings
[edit on 27-10-2008 by seabisquit]

[edit on 27-10-2008 by seabisquit]

As I type this morning before the Dow opens, and this is on top of the falls we have seen already:

Hong Kong index

Down 12.7%

Nikkei

Down 6.36%

Set
Down 10.5%

CAC
Down 6.15%

Dax
down 3.64% (or 156ish points, if It wasn’t for the Volkswagen gains of 80% today you could take an extra 200 points plus of this figure-in the strongest and most capitalised economy in Europe Germany)

FTSE
Down 4.46%

Oh by the way Russia's Indexes are closed until this Thursday! as they lost 13% in last trades.

CBOE or the volatility index is now at:

80 from the close on Friday at 67.80


Looks like a big sell of to me!

I just need to reiterate something in my opening posts I said the Unwinding of hedges would start today globally, especially in London it does not mean that it will all go today, but this is the real start of the actual crash that could bottom the markets.

The CBOE volatility index does prove that the markets are in "Panic" today, and as said in opening posts this should all unwind by Friday of this week starting today as we are seeing.

Look at the HKI down 12.7%,

this is a 25 year Low, so the last 25 years of growth and wealth generated has just disappeared into 0's and 1's on computer screen's and bits of worthless paper.

Pretty supportive of the sources if you ask me and their predictions.


Kind regards,

Elf.

CNBC markets

reply to post by MischeviousElf

The "sheer panic" subsided in England and Germany: FTSE is down by 0.48% and Dax by 1.3%. The sheer Monday panic hasn't still reach NYSE. Dow gained and then, out of respect for the fallen comrades elsewhere, lost some weight -- about 52 points (0.62%) as I type.

Don't worry. We get there. There is a whole week of trading ahead.

if hedgies unload the majority by friday this COULD put in a bottom in the financial world of stocks- however earnings will be poor going forward for a long time, so it' s not like they will recover in a v shaped fashion, more like an L.

Also are there any other large holders of stocks out there who may face margin calls in the future (after hedgies) , as the leverage continues to unwind, and pressure to sell to come up with some $ to pay creditors continues.

Finally the fed has increased the money supply (M1) as per the st. louis fed website. Seems the fed can't direct where this money will go or wether this can outpace the deflationary forces of defaults and debt destruction. The new money will probably flow into the bond markets by bond speculators and not lead to price inflation, like many seem to fear. Also the capital injected into banks via the bailout will probably by spent on mergers instead of bank lending. The high level of consumer debt combined with changes in consumer attitudes and a fast deteriorating jobs market would make me believe the banks would rather not lend- for fear of not getting paid back.

Deflation is the friend of bond markets and depressions and it seems like the elite bond speculators like to stay in the shadows as the world collapses around them while consolidation of smaller weaker firms occur, and the MSM focus is on the stock markets.

Some fear hyperinflation will be coming, but that is a POLITICAL DECISION, if you look at history. First we have deflation and a continuation of the 25 year bond bull market. the political decsion to hyperinflate would come AFTER the dollar based world is unhinged-probably thru opec dropping the petro dollar, then the dollar decision to hyperinfllate would have less collateral damage to the world and the elite money could flow into agriculture commodity's or gold (gold would probably still be legal for them but not you) before the massive loss of purchasing power (hyperinflation occurs)

[edit on 27-10-2008 by cpdaman]

Dow is up 1.57% at 1 o'clock.

Is there anything out there that would spook the US Monday market to the point of predicted collapse apart from OP's collapse of reason?

The news that describes the trading action around the world don't mention any collapse caused by panic-stricken traders (or traitors to link them to OP.)

If I didn't have serious doubt about the OP title prediction, I wouldn't be after his ass from the very beginning.

Guys, you can do better than this. The more you know about the works, the harder is for the ruling class to mop with you.

The stock goes up and down as those who have the millions to invest gain confidence in the status of the stock, or the economic news improves. The news on housing sales improved, so thus the confidence. But still I can't help but wonder just how bad the holiday retail sales reports will be.

My guess is it will be way way off, and more bad news of layoffs and unemployment will once again rock the markets.

No we wont reach bottom from a climactic sudden freefall over a FEW DAYS or even WEEKS.

It will be the realization over an extended time of just how bad things have gotten in ALL aspects of the global economy that will bring about the crash.

I see no real answer except the huge correction everyone is talking about. So stay tuned and try to limit your exposure to risky investments.

Up over 2%, this is my kind of panic!

So we end the day on ~-200 on the DJIA, with only -30 on the S&P, which is the real stock market people should be reading. A loss, yes, but certainly not the "sheer panic" people were hoping and praying for.

Yet another person predicting utter doom who was wrong...again.

But I'm sure we'll be told that it was really supposed to happen today but the government manipulated it. On ATS the government manipulates things every time the market goes up but for some reason never when the market goes down...unless it just goes down a little bit.

Should we revise our calendars for economic destruction for Tuesday instead? The last 30 days everyone has predicted the end of the economic world nearly every business day, so I'm afraid the track record is not terribly good.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Stocks advanced Monday afternoon as investors weighed a better-than-expected new-home sales report against worries about a global slowdown.

That's a nice fix for one day, but it's not going to cure all the pains.
So what's in store for the next couple of days?

Trading was volatile, however, with stocks not being able to commit too long to one direction following waves of selloffs across Asia and Europe today. Concern is spreading that central banks may not be able to prevent a global recession.

Move over, hedgehogs. If the big banks can't fix the problem, no one else can.

Sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide . . .

THE HKI dropped over 12% at close.

Its started alright.

That is a serious fall, and a big deal to say the least.

7 more days of that and its close to 0

The panic is proven by the CBOE or VIX volatility which is higher than the day the dow fell 700 odd points.

The Markets will be very differant and probably all closed by Friday.

If anyone thinks I am praying for this they are badly mistaken, and know nothing of my situation financially, and how much I have personally lost already.

Where I work and how it affects my Job prospects for the rest of my life, and what I am likely to loose in my pension over the coming week.

It is a Fear caused by facts and I wish for the opposite.

Does anyone really believe I am happy saying I will retire on £20 a week which is looking likely if this continues to unravel as it seems it will, well you are very sadly mistaken.

I stand by my OP the CBOE is higher than the 700 dow fall some time ago, and the HKI says it all. Sheer panic was seen in Hong Kong all of trading Monday.

When the markets are down 200 points then 20 minutes later 17 points up it shows panic, it shows fear and massive amounts of units traded. Soon people wont buy the mop ups unfortunately.

Regards

Elf.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by MischeviousElf]

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
The Markets will be very differant and probably all closed by Friday.

Preserved so that you don't try to edit it. Since you want to make such a bold prediction, will you describe what you classify as being "very different"?

You were wrong today and the chances are overwhelmingly not in your favor for being right by Friday. I'm going to hold you to it that all the markets will stop trading and close due your predicted economic Armageddon, and also hold you to what you mean by "very different" if you give a concrete definition of what that means - which you probably wont.

If the major markets are all closed early by Friday due to economic doom, I will come here and personally praise your foresight and ability to predict the future of the markets. If they are not, I am going to point it out and ask you to please stop trying to fear monger. Not that you will.

4 days and counting, see ya then!

[edit on 27-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Originally posted by LowLevelMason

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
The Markets will be very differant and probably all closed by Friday.

Preserved so that you don't try to edit it. Since you want to make such a bold prediction, will you describe what you classify as being "very different"?

You were wrong today and the chances are overwhelmingly not in your favor for being right by Friday. I'm going to hold you to it that all the markets will stop trading and close due your predicted economic Armageddon, and also hold you to what you mean by "very different" if you give a concrete definition of what that means - which you probably wont.

If the major markets are all closed early by Friday due to economic doom, I will come here and personally praise your foresight and ability to predict the future of the markets. If they are not, I am going to point it out and ask you to please stop trying to fear monger. Not that you will.

4 days and counting, see ya then!

[edit on 27-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Lowlevel mason what are you on about?

Can you ever show one time ive edited a post to change anything ive put online.

I really take offence at that.

The DOW Closed down over 200 points today and stated 12% or more of the entire wealth of the HKI index was lost?

Drops of 200 are BIG now as the Dow has been so ravaged by recent weeks... you don't seem to be making any sense.

It will be under 8000 points if this happens again tomorrow two big days like last week 700 + falls and were at the 6000 I originally warned about.

Anyhow its 2.30am where I am I will take you up on your challenge and post a proper reply tomorrow, quote that too, hey write it on a piece of paper to prove it, that is a worthless toilet paper and was a stock holding till this morning.

Me doom and gloom? don't shoot the messenger just facts.

U.S. stocks slumped to their lowest levels in 5-½ years, as investors fretted about the severity of a global recession. The S&P 500 is on track for its worst month ever in the post-World War 2 Era

CNBC

That is from CNBC Asia Markets Reports as they begin to open being Tuesday there.

and further same source

Japan's Nikkei continued to bounce around a day after hitting a 26-year closing low

A 26 yr closing low.

Vix is currently at or CBOE 80.6 after closing at end of DOW trading at 79.13 Monday showing Panic is increasing.

That proves panic it is the indicator of such a thing,

Elf.

I will reply to your post properly tomorrow, but the above is enough in itself really.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by MischeviousElf]

reply to post by seabisquit


Dermo is Right! Many crooks working at very high levels in banks have been arrested since 2006 and a number have received jail sentences after extradition for money laundering under anti-terrorism laws. Bankers are, also for this reason, not too pleased lately as they had been living under the impression that they could get away with just about anything, doing what they considered 'business as usual'. Not so anymore, we should see them cleaning up their act if the European Global Governance Initiative seizes this occasion to take power respective to these matters.

Just look at the sub primes and see what many bankers were really doing: Selling your mortgage 4 times in sliced up leveraged sections as derivative financial products - using the credibility of their own institution to get investors to believe that real underlying assets existed, but there was no real mortgage behind these financial derivatives.

The real financial scandal buried underneath the alleged over lending to poor people using variable rate mortgages called 'sub primes' is that the mortgage bank prospectively gets paid FOUR TIMES per mortgage:

Payment #1:
Down payment and subsequent income stream from the householder granted the mortgage.

Payment #2:
A discounted payment from the ‘mortgage collectiviser’ (such as Lehman Brothers or Bear Stearns) which buys the mortgage at a discount from the mortgage bank and then sells it on to Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, which then places the mortgage in a trust, which then creates Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDOs) after collectivization with other mortgages (or even with dud paper), and then splits the CDOs into tranches (slices), which are then multiplied creating a ‘basket’ of pools of tranches which are sold off to institutions, especially carousel participating institutions abroad which didn’t originally do their due diligence, with the resulting avalanche of completely worthless assets being propped up alone by the NAMES OF THE INSTITUTIONS marketing them.

Of course, from the earliest stage of this avalanche, the owners of the ‘assets’ beyond the original mortgage bank have sold them ‘without recourse’ to the holder of the original mortgage.

Therefore, if the mortgagee defaults, so that the ORIGINAL asset has become worthless, none of the parties ‘downstream’ is any the wiser. They just keep on marketing successive tranches of these fake ‘assets’ ON THE UNCHECKED ASSUMPTION that the original mortgage is still intact.

Payment #3:
Since the bank continues to hold the associated Universal Commercial Code 1 document that goes with the original mortgage and does not ‘travel’ with the subsequent hypothecations, the bank is in a position to sell the mortgage a second time, to a third party (which starts the replication process beyond the mortgage bank all over again).

Payment #4:
Finally, the bank of course continues to demand the repayments from the mortgagee. Should the mortgagee default, and foreclosure occurs, the bank hopes to be in a position to repossess the property, whereupon it becomes a realtor and proceeds to sell it or to provide a mortgage against it from scratch (which would open up a further three prospective payments for the mortgage bank in accordance with the above sequence).

In such cases, people facing repossession should demand that the TOP COPY of the mortgage document be presented to the Court.

Since the bank has sold the mortgage on, it may not be able to comply with this demand, in which case the repossession should be adjudged to be null and void.

reply to post by Z.S.P.V.G.


I predict a world wide ban on religion. Then we will all see trouble on a scale never before seen in the history of man. Remember this when it happens.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
The DOW Closed down over 200 points today and stated 12% or more of the entire wealth of the HKI index was lost?

Stricken by the "sheer panic" that caused Hang Seng to lose 12%, the Chinese traders decided to simply restore the share prices and called the Japanese to do the same thing. Things are so simple.

Hang Seng rockets 14.4%, Nikkei spikes 6.4%

By V. Phani Kumar, MarketWatch
Last update: 5:52 a.m. EDT Oct. 28, 2008
HONG KONG (MarketWatch) -- Most Asian markets survived early volatility to end higher Tuesday, with Hong Kong stocks spiking more than 14% to claw back from some of their steep losses in the previous five sessions.

Just keep playing Nostradamus. Shuffle a bunch of figures here and there and serve your goulash to anyone who wants to buy it. Fair deal.