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Is ATS proof of the dumbing down of America?

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posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by maus80
 


YES!!! when i visit other countries it becomes very clear that you are right. hell, statistics back you to! or was it too?




posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 05:43 PM
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Well first of all using "u" instead of "you" was originally to reduce the number of char. on a screen for back in the day when a max post was allowed of 250 char. a post it is also used in text because you are only allowed to send so many letters per text. By doing this you decrease the amount of storage space required by up to 20% if everyone did it resulting in lowered cost to the sponsor of the site.

In addition English can be confusing for example 90% of people used the word laid when they should be using the word laying in it's place. "He has laid in bed" is wrong it should be "He has been laying in bed" as an example.

Doesn't matter what you use you will always be wrong, even when you are right, when it comes to the English language. It all ends up being perception of each individual involved.

My nieces don't even speak English anymore they just rattle on "omg mbf jgd"

[edit on 26-10-2008 by Darthorious]



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by Darthorious
 


All very good points
I usually don't think about the max char issue (although that's not as prevalent now).

I think in all fairness it can only be judged from a native speaker, to a native speaker.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 05:55 PM
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I propose ... NEWO - The NEW ENGLISH WORLD ORDER

NWLaw ... NWLanguage...NWGrammer.

NWLaw - If your native language isn't English you can't post.

NWLanguage - If you don't write English on a day to day base you can't post.

NWGrammer - If you don't have, at least, college degree education you can't post.

ENGLISH FOREVER..... Amon ... ups Amen



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by maus80 Am I getting twisted over nothing at all, or is this obvious proof that the average person is getting dumber and lazier by the day?


No. You're not getting twisted over nothing.

You're not getting twisted over nothing.

It seems to me that many posters here are nothing but uneducated white trash 17-25 year old males that suckle from the verbal teat of Limp Bizkit or 50 Cent.
They have no idea of the difference between "than" and "then", "your" or "you're" or their" or "there", nor do they care.

Grammar is the way it is for specific reasons.

Hundreds of years of refining, to distinguish exact distinctions of reference.

People for the most part are idiots, and their numbers are growing.

You made an incredibly valid point, one which I've been meaning to make a thread about yet have been too lazy "too" do.


Thank you.
A necessary post, if, in the least was only to vent some accumulated steam.

-


[edit on 26-10-2008 by prevenge]



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 06:07 PM
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this is just an evolution of the english language. which in itself is a evoution of old english which is an evolution of a fusion of the romance languages and germanic languages. besides, if it gets the general point across who gives a flying hockey explative about how its spelled?

the way I see it its more efficient to use "u" instead of you (I am aware that I shouldn't be doing so, but it was typed like that to illustrate my point) I mean it could be worse, we could all be speaking 1337. (once again, used to illustrate my point)



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 06:22 PM
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My spelling/grammar is poor. If you think that this is a reflection on my intellectual potential, then you are only partially correct. The ability to use language is only a very small part of what intellect is. Their are people out there that are mute, and could barely write their name, yet give them schematics, a cad program, a canvas, etc... and all of the sudden they are beyond brilliant.

I often intuit things that I can't put into words properly. Or I use the wrong words all together. Does this make me an idiot? I guess it depends on what your interpretation of an idiot is. As far as an IQ test is concerned, I'm far from one. I do, however, have below average abilities (or at least I did when tested and throughout school) with language skills.

It's not at all like I don't try, though. There's many things I don't get. People think I'm an idiot at times because I'm usually the last one to get a joke. Then something insignificant will happen, and I'll stumble upon an insight and share it with them. In their minds I've just changed from an idiot to a genius and they become quite confused.

Not everyone has similar intellectual capacity in all areas.

The way I understand language is that words are used to denote meaning. If you understand someone, even if their language is a little broken, why correct them? Why point out the mistake at all? Who is perfect? I'm not, and I know it, so I allow other people to be imperfect.

If people want to speak 'properly', then they may learn how to. If they don't, why bother?

[edit on 26-10-2008 by unityemissions]



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 06:31 PM
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I have heard that Washington, Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were all bad spellers.
Kind of makes ya think.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by maus80

Originally posted by JPhish
i believe an individuals' intelligence should never be "called into question" do to grammatical errors.

you should also realize that for some of the people you're speaking of, english is their second language.
[edit on 10/26/2008 by JPhish]


"I know this board is used by people all over the world, but it's usually obvious when someone posting here speaks English as their first language."

Did you even read my post? I don't mean to call you out, but "do to", seriously? I know you have to be aware of the difference between "do" and "due", so maybe you could shed some more light on what causes this? I somewhat agree with you that spelling and grammar shouldn't used to judge intelligence, but maybe it could be used to judge their laziness or ability to clearly think through what they are talking about.

I'm not trying to be a snob or ruffle any feathers; I've just spent a little time reading scans of letters sent during WWII, and it is a bit shocking to compare the literacy of that generation with ours.


mmmm..you said "shouldn't used to judge".......maybe u were trying to say "shouldn't be used to judge?"

See the problem? Even someone who does the complaining, makes the same mistakes they are complaining about.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by amazed
 


How about you read my OP?

edit: If you read the OP, you will see this isn't a complain/rant thread. It's about an erosion of clear communication and thought, in relation to a common CT.



[edit on 26-10-2008 by maus80]



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 06:36 PM
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It is interesting how the human mind works.

Those who complain most about the posts in here often say "I have trouble reading without proper punctuation and spelling, It is hard to follow"

But those who do not always pay attention to such things, have no issue following the flow when reading the same material.

I think it just shows that we process information in different ways, some people prefer and perhaps even need order, while others simply read in a way that allows them to make sense from more chaotic patterns.

I think what we have here is a glance at the different ways we process information not a look at who is more or less intelligent.



[edit on 26-10-2008 by mopusvindictus]



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 06:38 PM
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Language is a dead art. I've reanimated it and am using it to further my own mad designs.

Intercepting conceptual visualization stratagems….
Processing…
[Aligning deployment modules]
**[Synthesis index .808]**
\-Tuning extrasensory harmonic receiving spectrum-/
Processing…
Co syncing thought blueprint…
Recalibrating optic sensor…
Disintegrating mental confines…
==System Online==

À|omega neutron beast|À
V.121
intuit conduit portal path wrath stigma
enigma entwined perception insinuation
deciduous existence resistance structure
rupturing fraudulent impressionistic facsimiles
utopia serenity mind choice demonstration
universal equanimity rehearsal dispersal
mithril luminous language fandango
evocative nocturne symphonies realize
intensifying epiphany architecture
eloquent reformation implication



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


I never really thought about it like that. I assumed that people who couldn't get past grammar mistakes were simply perfectionists that refused to follow after encountering said mistakes. If this is how someone processes though....wow, that makes sense. Most of my processing is beyond words. It's more of an integration of color-feeling-tones, pictures, and stuff that I can't really put into words at all. English is definitely a second language to me, although the only one that I speak!



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by maus80
I know this board is used by people all over the world, but it's usually obvious when someone posting here speaks English as their first language.

I am NOT a grammar/spelling elitist/snob, and my spelling and grammar are definitely not the greatest, but I still cringe when reading a lot of the threads here.

Do people really not know the difference between "you're" & "your" anymore?

Than/then? As in "It's better than I would have thought..."

There/their/they're, loose/lose, affect/effect, etc. to hell and back.


I hate grammar, I have my whole life. I know the differences of all the examples you mentioned but I often make mistakes absent-mindedly. The only grammatical thing that drives me nuts is when someone says something like "I did good", its WELL, that's about the only thing that really makes me mad.

I think many people don't care about spelling and grammar on the internet, its shorter to type the letter 'u' than to type out the word you and so people tend to leap at opprotunities to abbreviate.

There is a conspiracy to keep us fairly dumb, cell phones are a big part of it. I've noticed more and more people using L337 (or whatever that gibberish is called) in actual verbal dialogue, people actually saying OMG and LOL and it really bothers me. What will become of our language if all people begin talking like that. I think that instant messaging and texting and all the abbreviations involved have a fair chance of destroying language as we know it. The public school system doesn't help, either, it teaches kids to conform and regurgitate meaningless facts rather than learning critical thinking. Learn what you need for the test, put it in your short term memory, and then let summer vacation wash it all away...

While I find some of the more technical aspects of grammar to be a restriction of free expression basic grammar is needed so that we can all communicate, and keeping the ordinary citizen speaking a rudimentary version of a language forms a gap between the rich and poor... Weren't some slave owners afraid of their slaves learning to read and write, weren't men worried that women would begin to gain formal education and demand to be equals? Its a continuation of the same thing as far as I'm concerned, keep the poor fairly dumb and they won't understand how bad they're being conned.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 06:56 PM
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oh... the sweet irony, people...

on this thread alone, I stopped counting after a dozen -- mistakes of this nature; and by the way (I just slipped and typed 'buy', instead of 'by'), what we're talking about in many of these cases is USAGE, not GRAMMAR, although there are plenty of those problems as well...

let's think of it this way (also, before you say anything about my punctuation and capitalization, let it be known that this is my informal writing style -- semicolons and elipses instead of periods, and no caps at the beginning of 'sentences'...

which leads me to my point, precisely (just wrote 'precicely', and corrected it): firstly, many of us probably have a developed 'internet writing style', which is different from our academic or formal letter style; in some cases they may lend themselves toward more punctuation, spelling, and usage 'snafus'...

secondly, it's really not that hard to proofread; don't we want readers to take us seriously? don't we want the world to take us seriously? I don't give a s*** how Paris Hilton or 50 Cent or any of those bozos communicate (insert said politician and/or pop icon here); if this were a formal paper, or a letter to a senator, or an article for a newspaper, I would use the more conventional writing style, and PROOFREAD UNTIL PERFRECT because I would want readers to take me seriously in that setting as well...

it's just the way it works, folks; I'm not saying that making mistakes renders someone stupid -- not at all; but the regularity that some of these fundamental erros occur is downight disturbing, particularly considering the fact that I find, for the most part, people contributing to this site have "THEIR" heads in good places, and still believe in thought, discourse, and analysis, issues which are sorely lacking in the public conscience today...

let's put our best foot forward gang, so more and more people will take notice; I'll even forgo my informal writing style if it'll make a difference...

so... how many mistakes did I make?



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 07:00 PM
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found one: 'erros' instead of 'errors

bad proofreader!!



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 07:01 PM
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I vote "Internet phenomenon", and that phenomenon is called "competition".

As a self proclaimed "Grammar Nazi" (can't find the thread?), I can say that the miss-use of a noun or the unproper placement of a verb is something I find of the utmost dishonor.

However, I also understand that the internet is an animal of a different breed. Also one that, when released upon the masses, has affected society in ways that would have never been anticipated by it's creators.

In every human being on this planet, lies the spirit of "competition". From an All-pro NFL Quarterback, to that of your local, as my 3 yr old nephew says it "Gar-gib-man". No offense meant to the garbagemen of the world.

Everyone wants to be the best....at something.

This IS the technological age, and never before has anyone ever had the opportunity placed before them where they could achieve a level of "greatness", in thier own eyes mind you, without the proper resume.

I will only cite one recent example: (One from today as a matter of fact!)

One of my pals in preparing for his matchup with 1st place "me", stated in this week's "Smack-talk" that I was.......

"Sofa king re tar did".

I beat him 110 to 64.

Enuff sed.


For spelling, go figure.

[edit on 10/26/2008 by Kaiser Sohse]



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions

If people want to speak 'properly', then they may learn how to. If they don't, why bother?


First, great post, beautifully written. You're absolutely right about grammar and spelling not being that much of an issue so long as your targeted audience understands you. But personally, I'm grateful for the people who point out my grammar and spelling flaws in a polite or even humorous manner, because it encourages me to improve myself. The people who are rude about it have the opposite effect, more often than not.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 07:21 PM
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Next step.

Children shoudn't be allowed to make drawings.

The sky isn't brown..... uffffffffffffffff.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 07:23 PM
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I think it's a combination of being dumbed down, too much text messaging and using a keyboard.

The only one that pisses me off is when people say loose instead of lose




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