Is ATS proof of the dumbing down of America?

What makes you think no one has absorbed your thoughts? I read your posts, and thought that your points were excellent (and well presented, in usage and spelling )

reply to post by americandingbat


Well thank you. I appreciate that.

I guess I'm just despairing that this debate is still continuing. In the general population, I mean, not just ATS.

It's one of the few things in life that really gets me all worked up.

Sad, I know.

Peace,

MGGG

reply to post by InfaRedMan


I agree with you to some extent, however my personal reasons for why I choose not to care what people think differs from what your opinion is. Like you I choose to look at the bigger picture especially when it comes to self respect.

I’m not worried about what others think because what they know and what is reality are often remote from one another. I know for a fact that poor grammar is at least in my case due to laziness.
Quite frankly the internet does not hold the blogger to high standards. LOL

However Like I said in a previous post, ATS has helped me to break some bad habits and strive for a higher level. For that I am thankful…That’s undoubtedly a sentence fragment. LOL
In any case I agree we should all hold ourselves to a higher level. In doing this we I suspect would at the very least look better to others.

Look better to others? Really? I’m not trying to impress anyone here what the hell? They can take or leave what I have to say. Judging on the basis of grammatical clarification is petty in my opinion.
In most cases I’m speaking with your average Joe off the street. What I’m not doing is writing my 400 page dissertation for my PhD to the Harvard school of grammar.

I feel that writing well is in fact a lost art that is wonderful if kept alive, but has fallen to the wayside in light of technology. We modern humans are used to shortcuts and speed, writing well has all but vanished.
In its wake has come the methodology of point blank speaking. Say what you mean and move the hell on.
That kind of thing.

I still agree with you to some degree though. I just think that people make often sweeping accusations about stereotypical situations. No I’m not trying to sound smart here.

It is just that if I say I don’t care what people think the first opinion out of the bag is that I probably have no self respect. Other posters claim that people who use words out of context frustrate them. Well everyone has done it, and most people don’t know everything. As far as I know there are but Two god men/women on ATS that know it all and I’m not one of them. By the way don’t ask me who they are either.

reply to post by snowen20


You make some good points snowen. People are prone to drawing their own conclusions. Sometimes regardless of the evidence at hand. However, I try to make a conscious effort not to supply them with more ammunition.

It does seem to be a trait of humans to get away with what they can in the interests of saving a second or two... shortcuts per see. Technology is somewhat to blame, such as the use of calculators in rudimentary mathematics classes. However, it's not the calculator that's 'evil' or at fault. The fault lays in the hands of the user.

It's this that I worry about the most and I guess a line must eventually be drawn as to where we are comfortable allowing technology to do our work for us. From a philosophical stand point, when does technology that was built in the interests of empowering us, disempower us? Or do we willingly disempower ourselves whilst under the illusion technology advances us?

I think I may be floating off topic!

IRM

[edit on 27/10/08 by InfaRedMan]

reply to post by InfaRedMan


Hello everyone my name is Snowen20.……and I have poor grammar…
See the first step is admitting you have a problem. LOL
True I like it when you can have someone patiently correct you. Unlike some people on ATS that I guess flame the hell out of a poor bastard for hitting a grammatical speed bump.
At least you are polite, and for that I thank you.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by snowen20]

reply to post by maus80


I too have noticed this, I'm not perfect when it comes to writing either, but i have enough of a grasp of the language, so as to not look like a total ignoramus when replying to someone.

Sad part is that this is not just limited to ATS...i frequent a number of different boards...and it happens pretty much everywhere. It always amuses me when someone calls someone else stupid, yet they can't even spell.

The whole Affect/Effect thing ALWAYS got me..still does...

strangely, the the most consistent levels of proper spelling and whatnot were at a forum that is generally NSFW. Whereas some of the worst i've seen is here, and in a sci-fi forum where people like to think they're smart, but relatively few actually are.

It's a sign of the times though, i think. I've been online, and using message boards since like '98, and i've actually seen a decline. It's the gutting of the educational system, and the lowering of standards, so that failures don't screw with funding. The people graduating are getting progressively dumber. I was myself expelled from high school for refusing to become a casualty of staff incompetence. the difference between me, and a lot of the other people who actually graduate, is that I took steps to improve and expand my intellect. I read books, and articles, talked to people, learned things..

The problem with today's youth is that once they get out of high school, a lot of them just settle for the first rubbish job they can get , and stay focused on the mindless consumerism that the mass media and pop culture have convinced them is the meaning of life.

God bless America....Land of the obese, and home of the dumb.

For the most part I agree. Reading these post I noticed that, for the most part, they are written quickly as the thoughts are generated. It also has alot to do with text messaging and e-mailing that has become so popular over the last few years. I was discussing this with a friend the other day that some people are even talking in abreviations as if they were texting, causing me to have to count to ten and remember that they are not dumb even though it would seem that way. Just for this post I am not going to review what I typed and hope I make an A for grammar.

I have no respect for a man who can spell a word only one way
Mark Twain

I agree. And this is from being introspective, not critiquing others. Over the years at ATS I found that more and more I was completely leaving words out of my posts, committing grammatical errors, etc. I concluded it is because I slowly merged speaking with writing. In other words, I feel like I stop thinking about the writing aspect of it and am verbalizing with my fingers...it's a weird deal. But I guess my point would be, I don't want to be viewed as "dumb". I can write, read, spell and know correct sentence structure, but I "speak to you" in a more lax manner here.

Also (I've discussed this before), about 3 months of being on ATS and ewe start exhibiting ATS-induced homonymal dyslexia. It's a bizarre disorder that can bee scene when people get there homonyms crossed. Eye don't no what causes it, but your better off knot judging people bye they're misuse of words. It could just bee that they are having an acute attack of thee malady. Aye no eye don't want too bee judged bye it.

Originally posted by maus80

Originally posted by JPhish
i believe an individuals' intelligence should never be "called into question" do to grammatical errors.

you should also realize that for some of the people you're speaking of, english is their second language.
[edit on 10/26/2008 by JPhish]

"I know this board is used by people all over the world, but it's usually obvious when someone posting here speaks English as their first language."

Did you even read my post? I don't mean to call you out, but "do to", seriously? I know you have to be aware of the difference between "do" and "due", so maybe you could shed some more light on what causes this? I somewhat agree with you that spelling and grammar shouldn't used to judge intelligence, but maybe it could be used to judge their laziness or ability to clearly think through what they are talking about.

I'm not trying to be a snob or ruffle any feathers; I've just spent a little time reading scans of letters sent during WWII, and it is a bit shocking to compare the literacy of that generation with ours.

Wow this IS interesting because I am a HUGE fan of Jphish and have read many of his posts on science which have impressed the hell out of me especially when he painted evolutionary biologist and ATS member "Horza" in a corner on debating phyla and species as being totally different. So I am with Jphish as far as not judging in this way because I know he is very intelligent. HOWEVER I too have noticed from reading love letters written by WWll vets to their wives ( See I get their and there messed up from time to time) and I must say I too noticed how well written they were, I mean the difference is HUGE.

reply to post by MAINTAL


it's the phonics program they gave us as kids. you learned how to read, write and spell based on the way words sound.

Originally posted by snowen20
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

Hello everyone my name is Snowen20.……and I have poor grammar…
See the first step is admitting you have a problem. LOL
True I like it when you can have someone patiently correct you. Unlike some people on ATS that I guess flame the hell out of a poor bastard for hitting a grammatical speed bump.
At least you are polite, and for that I thank you.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by snowen20]

Yes! I know the feeling but ya know what is really fun is when you can nail em with the same sword like this.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by MAINTAL

 

it's the phonics program they gave us as kids. you learned how to read, write and spell based on the way words sound.

Well Hey there undo! I am a HUGE fan of yours too. I like the threads you and your friend bigwhammy are in. I usually stay out of those but enjoy reading them a great deal. Tell whammy I said hi and I signed up for his videos

reply to post by amazed


Amen.. thanks for picking out the irony in my post; indeed, the diversity of communication styles and skills makes our discourse both fun and intruiging; moreover, we can all be patient with and forgiving of each other regarding the technological barriers of the post-modern computer multi-tasker -- after all, time has never more been 'off the essence', yes? I do feel, however, that the firmer one's grasp and mastery of a language, the more clearly, effectively, and engagingly one can communicate one's ideas/thoughts/feelings...

I don't want to give the control system any excuse not to listen to what we have to say...

cheers

reply to post by maus80


Hey Maus relax...'you're' coming off as sanctimonious and sound kinda jerky(insulting)...this is hardly a forum for punctuation, grammar and spelling.

This is a place where peeps can just talk loosely if they choose about any number of silly unrealistic subjects, its an entertainment site, not educational...so if some 'Americans" type in a loose, slang or otherwise manner that lacks grammatical perfection...who cares?!

Not to mention i resent your remark about Americans and the English language and usage thereof.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I don't think it is as much of a non-issue as some here make it out to be.

Imagine if our traffic signs, airport abbreviations, doctor's prescriptions, directories, legal documents, etc., were all subject to the same sloppiness. One letter transposed in a chemical formula could mean disaster. Math would be impossible.

To me, it's a product of bad education, or a lack of effort on the part of the author. I can't say that the internet is the cause since I never communicated as much with strangers via text as I do now.

I guess we could always chalk it up to a broken keyboard, eh?

No, chalk it up to it being an informal setting, just as if you were sitting around your living room having a discussion with a group of "friends".

Would you use a formal speaking pattern in that setting? No? Yes? Or would you just relax and have a chat?

Have any of you ever recorded a conversation between a group of people and listened to the speech patterns? I can guarantee you they are not any more formal than what you find here on ATS. The difference is in speech you will not notice the "typos" or misspellings. What some people will notice sometimes will be words that are stumbled across, mispronounced etc. But a majority of people just do not notice this during conversation basically because it just does not matter in an informal setting.

It is an interesting study, one I have done on a personal level for curiosity (the recording of conversations). Try it, you might discover something interesting about how people communicate.

It is always respectful to let people know you are doing the recordings and ask if they would like a copy. Let everyone know why you are doing such a thing.

No, just upgrading ignorance.

Ps. No Pun Intended.
I wonder how many people on this board are actually American?

reply to post by maus80


The then/than thing bothers me the most. I'm glad someone pointed this out. I've even seen it used incorrectly on newspaper sites and my local TV news sites. Yikes!

reply to post by Sfen Senterra


Raises hand

reply to post by goldbomb444


no big deal. its quick thoughts, people are time crunched etc. language is used as a message transitioner (bad word good part for the thread )but unnecessary to be harsh on language. im getting pretty good at spanish, and its so much easier. I work on too many things, i could really just care a lil less if my grammar is imperfect.