reply to post by dreamwithoutfear
Does anyone else think this thread may be more effective if we start swapping information, such as books, articles, documentaries?? I'm really glad
Art of War has been mentioned. I'm just brainstorming ways for us to be more effective in this thread. It seems silly to just keep going back and
forth. It's starting to sound like complaining - not the best energy for motivating or truth seeking.
Absolutely. Your post is excellent. I, for one, am glad to see members like you posting. I do think most of the members are trying to help each other.
Unfortunately, a few trolls just can't seem to accept the fact that there are people that really are just trying to help each other.
Look, I've had a fairly good life. I have children and grandchildren that I want to have a BETTER life. If I were to pass away today, I would have no
regrets. I am retired, and have dedicated the rest of my life, to try to help make things better for those I leave behind. I truly believe that a
rising tide raises ALL ships. Right now, there is no doubt that we have a falling tide, and all of our ships our going down.
The trolls and nay-sayers obviously don't buy into that philosophy. In a way, I feel sorry for them, because their anger shows so clearly. They must
have miserable lives.
I think we should take Zorgon's advice, and ignore those people, because they are not contributing anything positive to the discussion.
Getting back to your great comment, another book which I found great was Fisher and Urey's "Getting to Yes". It discusses the art of negotiation,
but it also applies to everyday decisions that we make. One of my favorite lessons in that book goes something like this:
Two people were sitting in a public library, next to each other. The first one got up, and went over to the closest window, and closed the window,
then sat down again. Immediately the second person got up, went over and opened the same window, then sat down. This continued for several go-arounds,
until they started to shout at each other. At that point, the librarian came over and asked what was going on to cause the noise. Each explained what
they were doing. The librarian then turned to the first person and asked why he closed the _ The first person replied "Because I was cold".
The librarian asked the second person why he wanted the window open. He replied "Because I wanted fresh air." At that point, the librarian went into
the next room and opened the window, thus allowing fresh air in, without having the cold air reach their room.
The moral of the story- DON'T ARGUE POSITIONS. PRESENT INTERESTS.
The first person held the POSITION that he wanted the window CLOSED.
The second person held the POSITION that he wanted the window OPEN.
Those two positions are,of course, mutually exclusive.
However their respective INTERESTS were NOT mutually exclusive, and the librarian's solution resulted in a win-win for their respective interests.
IF the world COULD LEARN to negotiate INTERESTS, rather than POSITIONS, MOST CRISES could be averted.
A simple example is the Middle East problem. Iran wants Israel Destroyed. Israel wants to obviously survive. They are conflicting positions, and one
will always hold a losing position. However, if they could express what their interests are, a solution might be found.
Look at the cold war, Russian, Georgia, Russia, NATO, etc. Those standoffs are always stated as conflicting interests. What needs to be done is find
out why Russia did what they did, perhaps a solution short of invasion could have been worked out. I understand what Russia's concerns with NATO are,
and I think that a very real common interest could be worked out, but both Bush and Putin are both being pig-headed, and continue to argue from a
POSITION point of view, rather than seeking to find a solution that involves both sets of interests satisfied. It is a parable I have tried to live
by, ever since reading that book.
I think that applies to ATS also.