Stop, Breathe, Do you SEE what they are Doing to all of us?

What is going on with this thread?? We started with unity and support and encouragement, and now we seem a bit insulting and off topic. This is not about Prof. Hell, it's not about any one of us - It's about all of us. Why do we insist on focusing on the fruit or the branch. It's the root that deserves our energy. There are powers that be that we know and even more that we don't see. I am not a fan of religion, but it is only a tool to control. I am also not a fan of political parties and finger pointing, but, again, they are merely tools.

These tools, among almost countless others, are used to divide us to keep us weak, distract us to keep us from seeing the big picture, and deceive us into thinking we're free. We don't have to agree on every detail in this thread, but, if we're serious about the topic, we've got to establish the root(s) in this world's situation. That's going to require people who have looked, or are at least willing to look, WAY back in our history. We can't lie to ourselves and think this all begin with the current administration. Our civil liberties have been slyly eroding for centuries.

We need to take our situation both seriously and in stride. I agree with an earlier post that said the action will show itself in time - think 'When the student is ready, the teacher appears.' We've got to educate ourselves and stay aware of the dots needing to be connected.

Does anyone else think this thread may be more effective if we start swapping information, such as books, articles, documentaries?? I'm really glad Art of War has been mentioned. I'm just brainstorming ways for us to be more effective in this thread. It seems silly to just keep going back and forth. It's starting to sound like complaining - not the best energy for motivating or truth seeking.

Another thing I think will help is if only those who want to work towards a similiar goal do the posting. Insults, accusations, and negativity aren't helping. I don't want my time wasted with labeling or name calling. I already know we're in this 'mess' because we gave our power away (pointing the finger in anger won't change it or bring others around to seeing it - only makes people cling that much tighter in defensiveness). I certainly don't want to read how impossible it is to change anything. I'm not trying to censor anyone, but, c'mon, either you're intenting to help or hinder - which is it?


Hope this made sense. Hope it didn't come across as too much of a rant. I'm just encouraged to be on a thread like this - this is how change happens. People like you and me discussing, brainstorming, and supporting.

BTW, Shocka, I thought V was a great movie!

reply to post by dreamwithoutfear


You forgot one thing..... questioning.

We are looking to the past to find the guilty ones in the present. Shouldn't we be looking into the future?
We are looking for the causes not for the solutions.
Do you know what happens when you are walking forward and looking back... you crash.

We are looking at the root of a dying tree, shouldn't we be planting the roots of a new one.

And that is what I'm questioning.. because that's what we have always done.

We are falling into the same mistakes, over and over again.



Just raising the question.... nothing else.

All the best.

You're absolutely right. I did forget questioning. That's an extremely important part of the equation. Moving forward is great...once we know where we are and where we are going. In order to get to that point, we've got to know what got us here and what's keeps us here currently. All I'm saying is for us to truly understand the situation.

Thanks for adding the bit about questioning, and thanks for that song - it's one of my favorites

To become more and more aware.


To become more and more aware of you.

To become more and more aware of what you are.

To become more and more aware of what is around you.


Me Vs you distract us, It's simple action and response mechanism. It stops us from becoming aware of what's around us. We as a human race, have become so cot up with Me Vs you behaviour, we don't even know why we are doing it.


So I agree. Stop, breath and think for a moment.

Whenever you feel, misguided, confused, frustrated or even angry. Stop, breath and think. Become aware of what's your body is telling you, learn to understand what is going on inside. Become aware of your feelings and emotions.

When you do, you become more in control and at peace. This will radiate to others'


Great thread. So kudoos to the person who posted the thread

reply to post by dreamwithoutfear


I agree, questioning is vital. It helps to clarify confusion and chaos, that we sometimes forget what and where we are in life or in the moment.

It's something that the mass media and the government dont us too do. By constantly distracting our inner thinking.


It's time for every human on the planet to take a deep breath. The air an element, one of the elements needed for life.

Air = inspiration, always there around us,

Inspiration comes from the air, you can't see it, you can't smell it, you can't grasp it and it's unlimited.

Inspiration comes from within, as air a source to life. It reaches every cell in your body. Mind, body and spirit. Breathing and been aware of the power of it. Shows how far your inspirations starts within you.

So everyone once in awhile, meditate.

reply to post by dreamwithoutfear

Does anyone else think this thread may be more effective if we start swapping information, such as books, articles, documentaries?? I'm really glad Art of War has been mentioned. I'm just brainstorming ways for us to be more effective in this thread. It seems silly to just keep going back and forth. It's starting to sound like complaining - not the best energy for motivating or truth seeking.

Absolutely. Your post is excellent. I, for one, am glad to see members like you posting. I do think most of the members are trying to help each other. Unfortunately, a few trolls just can't seem to accept the fact that there are people that really are just trying to help each other.

Look, I've had a fairly good life. I have children and grandchildren that I want to have a BETTER life. If I were to pass away today, I would have no regrets. I am retired, and have dedicated the rest of my life, to try to help make things better for those I leave behind. I truly believe that a rising tide raises ALL ships. Right now, there is no doubt that we have a falling tide, and all of our ships our going down.

The trolls and nay-sayers obviously don't buy into that philosophy. In a way, I feel sorry for them, because their anger shows so clearly. They must have miserable lives.

I think we should take Zorgon's advice, and ignore those people, because they are not contributing anything positive to the discussion.

Getting back to your great comment, another book which I found great was Fisher and Urey's "Getting to Yes". It discusses the art of negotiation, but it also applies to everyday decisions that we make. One of my favorite lessons in that book goes something like this:

Two people were sitting in a public library, next to each other. The first one got up, and went over to the closest window, and closed the window, then sat down again. Immediately the second person got up, went over and opened the same window, then sat down. This continued for several go-arounds, until they started to shout at each other. At that point, the librarian came over and asked what was going on to cause the noise. Each explained what they were doing. The librarian then turned to the first person and asked why he closed the window. The first person replied "Because I was cold". The librarian asked the second person why he wanted the window open. He replied "Because I wanted fresh air." At that point, the librarian went into the next room and opened the window, thus allowing fresh air in, without having the cold air reach their room.

The moral of the story- DON'T ARGUE POSITIONS. PRESENT INTERESTS.
The first person held the POSITION that he wanted the window CLOSED.
The second person held the POSITION that he wanted the window OPEN.
Those two positions are,of course, mutually exclusive.
However their respective INTERESTS were NOT mutually exclusive, and the librarian's solution resulted in a win-win for their respective interests.

IF the world COULD LEARN to negotiate INTERESTS, rather than POSITIONS, MOST CRISES could be averted.
A simple example is the Middle East problem. Iran wants Israel Destroyed. Israel wants to obviously survive. They are conflicting positions, and one will always hold a losing position. However, if they could express what their interests are, a solution might be found.

Look at the cold war, Russian, Georgia, Russia, NATO, etc. Those standoffs are always stated as conflicting interests. What needs to be done is find out why Russia did what they did, perhaps a solution short of invasion could have been worked out. I understand what Russia's concerns with NATO are, and I think that a very real common interest could be worked out, but both Bush and Putin are both being pig-headed, and continue to argue from a POSITION point of view, rather than seeking to find a solution that involves both sets of interests satisfied. It is a parable I have tried to live by, ever since reading that book.

I think that applies to ATS also.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by dreamwithoutfear

 

A simple example is the Middle East problem. Iran wants Israel Destroyed. Israel wants to obviously survive. They are conflicting positions, and one will always hold a losing position. However, if they could express what their interests are, a solution might be found.

Look at the cold war, Russian, Georgia, Russia, NATO, etc. Those standoffs are always stated as conflicting interests. What needs to be done is find out why Russia did what they did, perhaps a solution short of invasion could have been worked out. I understand what Russia's concerns with NATO are, and I think that a very real common interest could be worked out, but both Bush and Putin are both being pig-headed, and continue to argue from a POSITION point of view, rather than seeking to find a solution that involves both sets of interests satisfied. It is a parable I have tried to live by, ever since reading that book.

I think that applies to ATS also.

I agree with everything you stated, but Iran does not want Israel destroyed. That is propaganda and garbage spewing.

I just want you to be sure, that you could lead other's to fall for this too. It's misleading reality.


But I agree on your points above.

Instead of personal gain and personal take. Let's strive for balance. Let's look at what works for all.

Siding, the Me Vs you tactic, get's none of us anywhere.

We must learn to meet in the middle, and look at the other person, and understand we are all human and have our needs and desire, as humanity as one we can reach greater height's, than thinking about one self. Thinking for all humanity, empowers the inner core of what you are. We represent each other, all of us are one, if you really look at it.

reply to post by mind is the universe

I agree with everything you stated, but Iran does not want Israel destroyed. That is propaganda and garbage spewing.

Perhaps that was a bad example. I know that there is disagreement on what Ahmajinadad meant by the remarks he made. Regardless, the "situation" between Iran and Israel still applies, I believe. Certainly, the situation between Russia and Nato would be a valid application of the win-win principles, guided by interests, rather than positions.
I certainly wasn't trying to spread propaganda.

oh well
October 14th went to #, i guess the OP has to dream up a new threat/problem/encounter.

If you live your life under this constant stream of THREAT
then only the drugs and the quacks will work.

reply to post by dalek

oh well
October 14th went to #, i guess the OP has to dream up a new threat/problem/encounter.

Are you referring to me? I don't understand your post at all. What is October 14th about?

Prof: Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. I'm sure by now you know that I completely agree with the concepts of position vs. interest.

Mind: I am SO glad you pointed out the fact of propaganda being used in the situation of Iran and Israel.

That leads me to my next thought. I believe the conflict we experience in the world (I'm not meaning this as much as with each other as with countries) is all by design. If one world government is the goal what better way to achieve that than by divide and conquer. We've been talking about division regarding individuals in the population, but I feel division amongst countries plays into it on a larger scale. One of my favorite sayings is, "Problem, Reaction, Solution" They want to achieve something, but it's too big to enforce on the people without inciting a riot or protest, something along those lines, so they create and sell a problem. The people then have the reaction and cry for the problem to be fixed. Along comes the solution, and it just happens to be the very thing, or its closest cousin, that they wanted to do in the first place.

I feel we've got to stop looking at the events in our lives, both past and present, as life just taking its course. We've got to look beyond the reality we've been given and see the real picture. Remember those Magic Eye pictures? It was a picture of one thing, but, when you stared at it long enough and in just a certain way, it revealed a whole new picture. The crazy thing about that is normally those pictures started off as a bunch of little things then the true picture was one big version (ie, rows of dolphins simming in the ocean turn into one large dolphin performing a trick). Somehow I feel that's relevant here, to us now.

Maybe it's just me...

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Of course your point is valid, I'm glad you brought it up in your viewpoints, and was not spotting you out at all. It's just the rumour that I wanted to correct. Because it is only rumour, It's all hear-say from the governments. Nothing proven or shown concrete in evidence. It's really dangerous to make these claims going on this, as it will ultimately affect us, as if any war starts, It's us the people that fight them, not the ones that are doing the finger pointing, or playing the Me vs you game that the governments spin out to us. The point I'm trying to make, we need to become aware of these spins spun at us.

Again as you put, we NEED to STOP and THINK, BREATH and become AWARE.

The Iranian leader has corrected that statement himself pubically. It has already been debunked on ATS. I'm just saying it's important we note the propaganda here.
He has been for a fact threatened by the US and Zionist's of Israel consistently since Jan 07 till present, and still he has made no signs of wanting a war. This has to tell us something logical here.

For example, Bush said WW3 how many times in relation to Iran, I mean, this is propaganda.


I feel the Iranian leader, is doing the right thing, You can see that by his actions, and this to me proves, that all these word spinning about him are false.
This is a fact. His actions speaker louder than words.

I just want people, just like you have said on this thread, to realise what the government tries to do to us, distract us, created controversary and fear amongst us. That could have us ending up in an Iran - Israel war.

The ME does not want this war.
The jewish do not want this war.
The Palistineans do not want this war.
Iran does not want this war.
The Iranian leader does not want this war.

But the Zionists Do, the ones that play the tricks of me vs You.


Believe me, I follow and and can empathise where your coming from.


I don't have much time to respond, But I'm glad this thread was brought up, purely for the simple reason, we do need to stop and take a deep breath and realise what's really happening to us! And what we are actually doing when we are not aware or clear minded.


[edit on 26-10-2008 by mind is the universe]

Double post.

[edit on 26-10-2008 by mind is the universe]

Double post. Sorry again

[edit on 26-10-2008 by mind is the universe]

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus


You want the ULTIMATE CONSPIRACY. It is being perpetrated on all of us right now, and the war has just begun.

concentrate your efforts on finding the true enemy

so who is the real enemy?

Prof, ignore him. Dalek seems to bring confusion. Unless I'm misunderstood him, his post an accusatory tone. Possible troll alert?

As far as the Iran topic, I don't think anyone would think you're spreading propaganda. I believe your intentions are more transparently noble than that. I know I was introduced to the propaganda regarding Iran through this video:



(If the video doesn't show up, type in 'Apologize to the world Mr Wallace and return that Emmy' on Youtube to see it)

Just thought I'd share.

reply to post by dreamwithoutfear

One of my favorite sayings is, "Problem, Reaction, Solution"

Yes, great points. In fact, your saying is really quite similar to Hegel's dialectic, which was taken by many to be "thesis, antithesis, synthesis".
The fact that much of Hegel's work was a misreading of his ideas, does not change the fact that Karl Marx DID use the principles in his development of communism, which was, of course, supposed to be the ultimate "one-world government".

Today, the principle, as you so correctly pointed out, are used by tyrants and deceivers of all ilks, in order to arrive at the point they wish us to be at.

A star for you post. Great points.

Originally posted by dreamwithoutfear
Prof, ignore him. Dalek seems to bring confusion. Unless I'm misunderstood him, his post an accusatory tone. Possible troll alert?

I am not a troll
I simply asked a valid question

reply to post by dalek

so who is the real enemy?

That is what I set this post up to investigate. We need to ask the questions, gather the facts, and try to discern who the real enemy is. I think right now, the enemy is well hidden. What I believe we are seeing are the enemy agents, whose strings are being pulled by those hidden ultimate powers.



Again, though, I ask you, what was the meaning of your last post, concerning Oct. 14th?