Stop, Breathe, Do you SEE what they are Doing to all of us?

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posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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Interesting end run around the T&C. Also interesting how you set up yourself as the leader of this little group you are pretending not to be forming. Hypothetical eh?
Transparent would be more accurate.

Your method is quite classic. Make a statement nobody in their right mind could disagree with and then as you form your group, lead the discussion in a manner that lets people believe it is their own idea's and you are just another Bozo on the bus. No more than I would expect from a Professor. Superiority Complexes seem to be epidemic among that Peer Group.

I have to wonder, do you show the same disregard for others beliefs that you do for the wishes of those who own this Private Board? Saves you the bother of all the years of work to build this board, when you can just simply ignore the owners rights and treat their wishes like so much nonsense.

I agree fully with the first post of this thread of yours. Later it however becomes obvious that you are just being sly about trying to start your own group on ATS and the T&C be damned. Character is everything. We don't need another leader without it in this world. Instead of having an open discussion, you are carefully manipulating the discussions direction to achieve your goal. In the end I suspect the only idea's that you will agree with, will be your own.


You do realize that the owners of this PRIVATE BOARD could be held liable for the actions of any group formed on this board? Of course you do, you are a Professor.


[edit on 10/25/2008 by Blaine91555]




posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by angel4change
The question is what is the goal? Where does humanity want to be? Do we need a monetary system? What laws serve to improve our lives verses repressing our freedom? Where do we draw the line between a free society and anarchy? The solution is not an easy one to be sure.


And that is the problem for the majority of people - maybe not here at ATS, but the majority of people don't even have a clue about personal goals and what they want to do with their own lives. Whenever I ask anyone what they hope their lives will be like in a year, 5 years, etc, they don't know. Most haven't even thought about it and don't make plans.

First people need to want change enough and I just don't see that happening around me. People also need to have an idea of what their ideal world would look like and most people don't have a clue. I moved from England to Spain, 5 years ago, with a plan and an intention and knew it wouldn't be easy but I was prepared to put in as much effort as required. I've seen so many people move here to escape the grind only to find they don't know what to do with their new found freedom. Most end up spending their days in bars, with other clueless people, and then they move back to England within 6 months. They move back to what they know because it's easier and they need to be told how to live.

I've become rather disheartend by people's lack of ideas and enthusiasm. It's so sad to watch people just resigned to plodding along nicely. People don't ask questions because they don't want answers. They're quick to complain but ask them what they'd do instead and they haven't a clue. I haven't a clue either but I knew what I didn't want and packed up 5 years ago and changed my life.

I do know that the current situation has got me really thinking again and trying to have conversations, with others about their opinions. Most are oblivious to anything changing and are going about their business as usual. It's frustrating because part of me wonders what it's going to take for them to want change and the other part of me worries that if these people were involved, in any kind of change, what would we end up with?

I have no idea what the answers are but I'm loving this thread and the links provided. I love having an open mind and listening to both sides - I often find myself moving from one opinion to another and sometimes back again, after more research. That's what I love about this site - ideas people that aren't afraid to express their opinions. I will keep reading with interest.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 03:12 PM
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While peaceful debate is an admirable goal, I think it's limited in the context of hypocrisy and falsehoods and thus remains a rather theoretical objective. If one solely focuses arguments on the message and not the messenger, then hypocrites and liars get a free ride. Once you address the person and not the subject, you're technically involved in the dreaded ad homonym attack. We've been conditioned to avoid this, because it invites counter attack, and very few if any of us aren't hypocritical about these things.

Theoretically, it's perfectly fine to say, "I know I can't live this way, but just do as I say, not as I do." One can hope that those people take their own advice. More often than not though, it seems that hypocrites never take their own advice.

Thus, it's important to remove the plank from our own eye before instructing someone else on removing the spec from theirs. Once done though, I think that addressing the messenger and even addressing them forcefully is not a terrible thing. I consider it a meta-level debate and an effective heuristic, i.e. a rule of thumb, for qualifying information, knowledge, and data being spewed in our direction. After all, if the messenger is a crackpot, do we want to bother debating them?

An excellent example of this is happening right now in politics. Are we being invited to inspect the character of the individuals running for office? Character is an excellent heuristic for understanding a person's values and their decision-making style and ability. I think it's rather odd that people keep saying, that's a personal issue, let's get back to their policies or platform. If you know that neither side will keep any of their promises, then what is the value of keeping the debate at that level? I'd rather debate about the evidence for their decision making.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus

England against Iceland, Obama against McCain, Wall Street against Main Street, each blaming the other, WHILE THE REAL CULPRITS sit back, laugh and wait for the wars to start.
Who are those that are sitting back and waiting?


They are IN the English government. They are IN the American government. They are in governments around the world. Since they have no real name, what are we to call them if not to identify them where they work?

If people, say in the Enslavement of Iceland thread, decide that this means the English people and either begin to defend their government because of a false sense that their government works for them, or conversely attack the people themselves because of a false sense that the English government represents the people, that merely shows the depths of their delusion.

By and large, there are no governments that work to defend their own people they placate their people to the minimum they must in order to have less hostility at home than abroad. And, they wage a constant war against their own people in terms of propaganda and economic policy to lower that level that those people will agree accept as minimum.

I do not confuse the English people with those that govern them, any more than I confuse the American governors with her people. But that does not mean I will not say "American business interests" or "British business interests" or even "America" or "Britain." I take it as a given that any real thinker will realize that the driving force of these countries and their political maneuvering is not the people, pretense of democracy aside, I expect that people will realize that these are competing groups of self interest, with the "self interest" only truly representing the rich and powerful elite.

Those who jump to the conclusion that I would be talking about the peasants, yes peasants, you and I, the serfs, the indentured servants of those masters, I am not really that concerned with convincing. To jump to that conclusion they would have to be laboring under the assumption that their leaders represent them, and I am not in the business of teaching "Seeing the truth 101." I am interested in finding other thinkers that are able to discuss the actual mechanics of what is being done, why, and what strategies are being used to wage this war of global dominance.

The people have always had the upper hand in terms of number. The whole system collapses without our compliance. Yet time and time again from time immemorial we act against out own self interests, our little peasant interests, in order to push forward the agenda of those who drain our blood like vampires. This is because the "illuminati" know one truth. They are not all wise and all powerful. They flounder and repeat over and over again the same mistakes. They are short sighted and are harming not only us, but themselves in the long run. These are not evil geniuses in the true sense of the world.

The one thing they know is exactly what I have in my signature. The truth about human nature. That no one wants to know, or cares about at all, the truth. It is unpopular. It is frightening. Often it is not glamorous enough. It requires action on our parts, responsibility. We want pretty lies that reinforce the illusion we already have about our lives, the world, God, life itself. All they do, the Illuminati, is figure out what they want, and then figure out a way to convince us that what they want is in alignment with our own illusions. It is a simple thing, really, hardly genius.

It is one simple technique that they have used over and over, recycled generation after generation, because it works. Why on Earth would I, or anyone, seeing the undeniable effectiveness of this program decide that telling the truth to the "people," who are already laboring happily under illusion, is the answer? People who are laboring under the illusion that their government represents them and other governments represent the people of that country are, by and large, not convincable. They are operating from such a deep and unconscious state of fear that they cannot be reached with reason.

Nothing is going to change this dynamic until the fear of not changing becomes greater than the fear of change itself. And we are not there yet. I do not believe it is a "negative" to portray America in an unfavorable light, or Britain. It begs the question of the individual, do I stand for the same things my leaders stand for? I like the fact that it makes some blind followers uncomfortable that their country and its policies are being attacked as ruthless bloodsuckers. I liked it when it was my own country being attacked in that way. That pain will drive you one way or the other, further into the delusion or into a new way of looking at your leaders as separate from yourself.

Those who retreat further into delusion are not redeemable. Whatever is to be done in terms of changing the world must be done despite them, not with them. Those who become uncomfortable enough will begin to blink and wake up. However it isnt the reasoned truth that will awaken anyone, it is when the delusion becomes more painful than the truth.

People who identify with their leadership become upset when their countries policies are attacked? Good. It is their opportunity to examine whether or not they support those policies, and whether or not their leaders work for them. I dont see peoples pain, upset, and anger as a negative. I see it as our only hope.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


"No fate but what you make" vs. "Life predetermined by fate"

Admirable proposing action in the face of adversity.

IT (action) will happen on its own time.

Because both statements at the top apply - fate and destiny

are 2 different but related things.

Our timeline is headed towards a predestination, and our

actions will determine future flux that can't be foreseen by anyone,

until we get there....try to enjoy the ride (and hope it isn't from hell).



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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Lemmings..........

We aren't Lemmings are we?

So ... we need a litle push... and they are pushing.... gently





posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 05:30 PM
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Too true i've often wondered what would happen if millions didnt go to work i want to see it and be in it.
But with regards to what was said earlier 'we're all human right?' thats the problem we're human and none of us deserve to exist.





reply to post by justgeneric
 



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Great post


In the recent thread Mike Singh started on India's new launch to the moon... the VERY FIRST reply was a racist remark against India and had to be removed. Half the posts in the thread turned into an argument over India spending money in space instead of feeding their poor.

The ones defending just added to the distraction (guilty of 2 posts) and as you say its one side against the other and the topic is buried.

I have seen this trend on other forums as well It almost seems like a concerted effort. The end result is that we end up with an internet forum version of the Tower of Babel

Solution? Don't play their game... "Just the facts ma'am"

Reality? Its hard not to want to shoot back

Sometimes you want to converse with a baseball bat to get their attention




posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by Lastone
Lemmings..........
We aren't Lemmings are we?



Hmmm I may have used that term once or twice, I like it better than "Sheeple"





posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 06:50 PM
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Wow. That is interesting indeed. The Lemmings all have the same instinct to kill themselves; thus controlling there own population. I don't really know what to make of that. Very strange.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 06:53 PM
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"Mod Smacked"so thats what happen,great phrase,I see that I am in good company.

I read as much as I could to see that there was no fix to bring the people together,there is no fix,drama in our lives is what we (humans)do best,we thrive on it and the powers that be know this and use it well to fill there pockets and create the power they need to stem the bordom of being the richest people on earth.

The Art of War is a great book but you can be sure you have lost your anoniaty(SP) when you quote it like its your bible,some things are better left to yourself in a world where "control" is the new buzzz word.

Myself,I look for that one voice,a person with morals,honor and integraty,the only problem is with my luck it will be this Antichrist that people talk about.

Look at all whats happening and whats to come as a real adventure,prepar yourself as YOU see fit and hope for a real life changing ride,great for some and real bad for others,thats life, is it not?You can talk tell you turn blue in the face and you won't change a thing.

Its a big lemon,so turn it into lemonade(great saying)YOUR WAY! Look into yourself for your answer,counting on others is why we are about to have one hell of an adventure in life change.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


This is all very true. But so is the need to work out methods to solve our problems. If there is no way to do that, than all this is just useless information. You can know everything there is to know about this little planet called Earth. But knowledge by itself accomplishes nothing.
That knowledge must be applied to a serious of actions in order to cause a reaction that changes circumstance.
but if you have a series of actions from many different directions that cancel each other out, then we are going to be losers the rest of our lives.
In a giant game of tug-of-war, it is the team with the most power that wins. The trophy for this game is the right to make choices and hinder the choices of others concerning your life.
Right now the strongest team is the ruling elite, and they are dragging us all through the mud toward an ultimate victory for them and slavery for us and our offspring.

They are winning because we all punish each other for organizing into teams to pull back. we are all trying to go in separate directions, because we are too (fluffy) afraid to talk to each other and do it right!

Sites like ATS are only helpful in confirming the fact that we are losing.

Then there is the whole peaceful protest like daisies movement. Your purposeful ignorance at the situation really makes me shake with anger. Most seem to think asking nicely and sending in forms with nice little words like "lawsuit" and "constitution" are going to make these people grow a conscience.

How much more naive can you get! How much more cowardly can you grow! Our politicians pander because YOU pander!!!

For example
I remember that we had quite a strong "voice" when congress focused on the bailout bill.
50% of us said no, and the other 50% said "Hell No". They passed it anyway, flagrantly displaying their lack of concern for anything you ever tell them. We should all have packed our bags, gone into congress and thrown those who voted "yes" straight out the tallest windows. Then we should have done the same to that Nazi in the whitehouse, who DARED threaten us with martial law for not approving his robbery of us.

Instead, we all sat down on our butts and typed about it. Like just changing a few pixels on a webpage would fix things. Just like talking about 9/11 stopped them from lying about it and using it to steal our rights and kill our children in wars for oil.

They own your government, your schools, your "money", your house, your car,your job,your news, your weapons, your food, your water, and your military. They force you to work for money they print so they can take it away from you as soon as you earn it. It's PAPER!
You are poisoned everyday with something worse than lead. Flouride is a carcinogen that causes all known forms of brain disease and disorder. The flouride in 1 tube of toothpaste is enough to kill a child. and it's only .5% of the tube. They are trying to kill you right freaking NOW.
They have publicly killed thousands of people, from the lowest of peons all the way up to the highest ranking office in the land.
They are the real terrorists, and they want to suck you dry and then kill 80% of you. That is their trophy at the end of this game. Total control, just like Orwell wrote.

I know the answer! lets sit back and talk about it! you can't do anything, oh no not here! Just talk. That really helps.








[edit on 25-10-2008 by Hiatus]



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by Hiatus

I remember that we had quite a strong "voice" when congress focused on the bailout bill.
50% of us said no, and the other 50% said "Hell No". They passed it anyway, flagrantly displaying their lack of concern for anything you ever tell them. We should all have packed our bags, gone into congress and thrown those who voted "yes" straight out the tallest windows. Then we should have done the same to that Nazi in the whitehouse, who DARED threaten us with martial law for not approving his robbery of us.



Election day isnt over yet. What would you have us do? Really? Storm the White House? Violence isnt the answer here. (although I am not a peace daisies and pink unicorns and rainbows sort) We have the opportunity to tell them exactly how we feel. We can all vote third party. Will we? Probably not. But we could. I am.

If you cannot get your fellow Americans to cast a vote for a third party candidate to send a message to the other two parties, which requires very little bloodshed, you better not get your pitchfork and head for the White House just yet.

We dont need violence to change things. We need unity. We need belief that we can make a difference.

People who advocate violence are as bad as the people who advocate daisies and pink unicorns. They offer no realistic way to bring about change. They encourage people to do nothing because what they offer is so clearly unworkable.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 10:19 PM
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When one gives up before they even begin, failure is certain.
The resolve of the human spirit is something amazing.
Unfortunately for us, though, we seem to only exhibit this resolve in times of great calamity.
Do you really want to see what happens when the good people do nothing?
Why must we be pushed over the edge before we wake up?
Hasn't humanity waited long enough to evolve?
Transcendence is possible for each and every one of us.
It is you, who chooses not to think!
It is you, who chooses not to act!
It is you, who chooses to be ignorant!
It is you that keep yourselves down!
You have no one to blame but yourself!
So are you going to wallow if your own sorrow and pity?
Or are you going to do something about it?
I am choosing to talk to people.
I do my best to educate myself, get informed, share what I learn, and give positive encouragement.
I just talk.
I open peoples minds up to the ideas they are not familiar with.
I am subtle.
I pique their interest by asking them thought provoking questions.
I have often been told by some they have never been the same after they have talked with me.
They think differently.
All I ever did was show them the door.
They choose to walk through it.
That is all I ever wanted.
To get people to think.
Not just exist.
When people think, they question.
The more answers they find, the more they seek new questions.
When people think they find that they may have had the answers they were looking for all along.
They just lacked the ability to know what it was they were looking for.

PEACE
L8R



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 





Your method is quite classic. Make a statement nobody in their right mind could disagree with and then as you form your group, lead the discussion in a manner that lets people believe it is their own idea's and you are just another Bozo on the bus. No more than I would expect from a Professor. Superiority Complexes seem to be epidemic among that Peer Group.

I have to wonder, do you show the same disregard for others beliefs that you do for the wishes of those who own this Private Board? Saves you the bother of all the years of work to build this board, when you can just simply ignore the owners rights and treat their wishes like so much nonsense.

I agree fully with the first post of this thread of yours. Later it however becomes obvious that you are just being sly about trying to start your own group on ATS and the T&C be damned. Character is everything. We don't need another leader without it in this world. Instead of having an open discussion, you are carefully manipulating the discussions direction to achieve your goal. In the end I suspect the only idea's that you will agree with, will be your own.


First of all, I do not have a superiority complex. If you had followed my posts since I registered in the beginning of the year, you would know my background, namely a business person who spent his last few active years teaching in the School of Business at a 4 year college. I do not consider myself an academic, as I've stated so often on my posts, and in fact, despise the entire academic facade.

Second, I am not, nor do I want to be a leader. I actually only wanted to facilitate the ability of people to express their concerns without the type of invective that you are trying to insert.

I have no intention of starting a "group" as you say. All the majority of people on this thread want, is to be able to discuss how to handle a crisis that was not created by them, but has affected all of us.

I was very successful in helping many of my graduating college seniors set up their own companies, and I had never, nor would I ever take any part in those companies, several of which are now multi-million dollar enterprises.

IF you do not wish to be a part of a group of people who wish to better their situation, free of hatred and anger, which seems to be your main forte, then why not just refrain from posting on this thread?



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 





In the recent thread Mike Singh started on India's new launch to the moon... the VERY FIRST reply was a racist remark against India and had to be removed. Half the posts in the thread turned into an argument over India spending money in space instead of feeding their poor.


Zorgon, good to see you here also. For those that aren't aware of it, there is a great thread started by redhatty here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Respected members such as Zorgon and others have given some great tips on how to essentially be more self sufficient, not only with food, but with virtually every other aspect of life. IMHO, it is one of the better threads that I've seen since joining ATS.

I think many of us are sick of the trolls and the petty arguments, and as much as trying to discuss the current world-wide crisis being a reason for this thread here, I want to provide, (and I hear by what most of you are saying, that you also want to provide) an environment where we can discuss issues without the name calling and accusations. Trolls rarely contribute anything to a thread but noise and their invective. Anyone can condemn and scoff, but it takes some intelligence and a modicum of respect to analyze and provide solutions.

Is it asking so much for those who disagree to express their opinions without name calling? We don't have to agree, but why resort to name calling and nay-saying? Nay-saying is really just a way of saying "I can't" and if you think you can't, then "you won't.

Stereotyping people and groups is not a respectful way of arguing a point. Making statements such as typical professors have superiority complexes, or all Christians or Jews or Muslims are ignorant, or all white people are lazy only show the inability of the speaker to actually communicate or understand someone in the group being attacked. I've said enough about this, maybe too much, but I think Zorgon has the best advice, ignore such people. They do not seem to have anything to add to the discussion but invective. I won't waste any more ATS bandwidth on such posters here, but I will discuss disagreements if they are posed in an intelligent, sincere and civil manner.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 

Therein lies the problem, Emeritus. Opinions are carved out into Classifications, and no matter how objective one tries to be, you are bound to agree predominantly with A SPECIFIC Classification. Accordingly, people who truly do align themselves with an opposing Classification will label you and try to discredit by arguing a bias that doesn't exist, when in reality it is their own bias that pollutes the ability for thought-provoking discourse.

For instance, if I say, as I have in a previous thread, that I believe we all have a moral obligation to take care of one another and, therefore, support the concepts behind many of our current and proposed taboo social programs (e.g. Medicare, Universal Healthcare, Social Security, etc), then immediately I am labeled a Liberal Democrat. If I say I want to untax the rich because they will create jobs, then I'm a Neo-Con Republican.

But if I argue that we need to keep our most important social programs, BUT DO THEM RIGHT, even add new effective and efficient ones, but still dig deep into our government and eliminate all waste and shrink it, then what am I? Well, it depends on the venue, and the audience, and what specifically their ear is trained to here.

So, what do we do?

Until the masses begin to see these not as republican or democratic opinions, but rather just a pool of opinions, it will be impossible to solve real problems. Until we have websites and information accessible that objectively break down issues into their multiple scenarios, how can we ever make good decisions?

Without this, all that's left is a small few that are capable of weighing issues against their alternatives, and making reasoned arguments to support their positions. A small few who are capable and fully willing to HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE for their words and actions, and not arbitrarily decide who gets a pass simply because of party affiliation. Equally an important trait that is missing is the ability to simply say "You know, I never thought of it that way, you're right!"

For God's sake, I read recently in another thread a number of people saying that the reason American students rank so far below the students of other countries is because lefty teachers are using the classroom to push their radical left-wing agenda! I couldn't believe it; not even a single consideration that maybe we suck as a society at teaching Math and Science, and maybe we need to improve our teachers and our methods.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 02:26 AM
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I blame religion! flame me all you want but religion has been the excuse for our major conflicts throughout history, the 1000 yr war between , terrorism, the spanish fleet that attacked england in the 1500's under the catholic word of "god", the crusades. Lets see, "one nation under god" as quoted in the pledge, our country (US) was founded under the means of free worship along with other "freedoms".

Yeap thats the just of it, society has forever been based on religion which is usually the root or excuse for all major conflicts and has always separated one people from another.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:22 PM
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I don't know if any of you have seen V for Vendetta. I just watched it today and it narrated exactly what is going on right now. It says that everything happens for a reason and nothing is by accident. I know this isn't a constructive post on my part sorry. Just thinking a lot about that movie and this thread reminded me of it.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:41 PM
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this whole thing reminds me of that movie "They Live"
watch it online here




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