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Stop, Breathe, Do you SEE what they are Doing to all of us?

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posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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In doing my part, I spend my time presenting the truth as I can find it. I research issues from as many sides as possible. Much like a research paper, you need many sources presenting many different aspects. The truth does not come from limiting your knowledge to a few, but expaning your understanding of the many.
I take this principle and spread it around. When I talk with my friends and co-workers about current events, religion, politics, or anything, I always present my perception of the truth and then listen as they do the same from their own perception. We debate the issues and I try to present them with intrigue to make them think. I always encourage them to do one thing above all else..."seek the truth for yourself". I encourage people to open their eyes and ears and pay attention. I insist that they do not take any single ideal as fact, including mine.
I feel that, in this respect, I am doing my part to spread a practice of self-awareness and enlightenment.

As to the OP, you speak of the infighting among the various sides. I agree that there is a worldwide problem with intolerance and closed minds. There are far too many people that insist that their idea is the only right and any difference must be wrong. It is a human problem with ego. Ego blinds mankind from opening up to any difference. Checking your ego at the door of debate leaves an openness to opinion and the truth.

In order for true change in the outcome of the world as we know it to what we wish it to be, people need to leave their predjudices and bias behind and move forward into a more highly enlightened state of openness. Doing so would unite people against the lies being perpetrated by the few and we would begin to see honest change.




posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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It dawned on me last night as I was countering the blinding affects of my neighbors new one million candle watt porch light, that if there ever was a movement, one could show solidarity by uniting our porch lights as one color.

I envision one by one, buying a box of green light bulbs, taking a cup of coffee or tee, or if your neighbor is a beer drinker, take a bulb and a beer over for a chat about the state of the world today, and after said chat, screwing the bulb in, and moving on to the next neighbor... Until your street is glowing with the signs of solidarity.

And we can start with my neighbor Mike, cause he's killin me with the "sun in a bulb" he screwed in the other night.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by squiz
 





Wise words, ProfEmertus. Haven't got much to add except thanks.
You did catch my eye with the Sun Tzu references though. I've read it many times. These are the ultimate strategies of warfare used on the ancient battlefields, the corporate board rooms and international political movements. Everyone should know tactics involved.

Thank you. Before my career as a professor, as many of you know, I spent the better part of three decades in the business world. I can tell you, as a fact, that the first time I read Sun Tzu's Art of War, was when it was given to me, and all of the other new hires of a very large corporation, to read and discuss, and understand how it would apply in the world of marketing and finance, and after all, business is just a means of waging war without traditional weapons such as guns, cannons and missiles. However, the weapons used by business are just as lethal as those used by the military. Look at how many lives have been destroyed financially and otherwise by those who have waged this economic war against us now.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by justgeneric
 


Don't Quit... and never say never ..
lol

I do believe that some day .. someone will do something so simple but so powerfull that will touch everyone deep inside.... and that will be the turning point. Don't stop dreaming...

I was posting in the Iceland thread not to fight other ideas but asking people to Think....
To see outside the box.
The problem is Choice...
They always give us 3 -4 options... and you choose. Not knowing that all the choices lead to the same result. Now you can always blame you and others for their choices... If we / you / me are in this position today is because of the choices we made. ( maybe I should have gone to door Nº 3 and not nº 2)
In a Labyrinth ... you have 4 doors and 100 people going inside. 98 go for the doors looking for the exit.. the solution but 2 dont. They start thinking, start questioning the situation. Maybe taking down the halls is the solution. Why should we go that way or this way ? Why are we limited to 4 doors ??
They will go for the halls... trying to take them down... the others will look at them as crazy...stupied...criminals trying to destroy what took so many years to build. Can't they see the doors... are they that sutpied ..No they are ..... They will try to stop the only 2 that went for the outside the box solution... they are Ideologic Terrorists and that's what we are... isn't it ?

We... (at leest me)... aren't trying to fight anyone that as a diferent opinion or reaction to the situation... I'm simply asking people to think.. look at the choices we have and the solution given to us. We don't think about solutions we just choose one from 4 that are presented to us...
"
Talking to my boss I made th e big mistake of saying ..."I thought this was.."

You already know the unswer don't you..? " I'm not paying you to think .. I'm paying you to do.."

We aren't suppose to think .. we are suppose to choose.
To do it and get pay.... not do it and be left out... to be a Ideologic Criminal not work with or for the system but questioning it..
They are not paying us to Think it or question it.... they are paying us to do in it... work with it and choose from the option/answers/solutions etc........presented to us




posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by Copernicus
 


Regardless of what you think finally brought down the Berlin Wall, and the old USSR, it was PEOPLE like Solidarity in Poland, and people in other former Bloc nations that put the cracks in the WALL, and eventually brought it down. I


This was orchestrated by Western agents - people did not know what to do or how to organise it - its hard to imagine a confusion and fear of larger scale - I was there.

Nevertheless we need to stay together against elite machinery and stay calm and reasonable.

They can succeed only if they manage to set us up agianst each other



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 12:31 PM
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Devision and separation is weapon used against us to prevent us from uniting.
If we are always focused on how we are different from eachother we are too distracted to see how we are the same. Racism, prejudice, religion, politics,...these are the tools. They do not serve humanity except to perpetuate more of the same thoughts of devision.

It is very apparent that a movement is immenent and that a small group of rebels are ready to see beyond the differences and unite for the better of humanity. But I fear that group is too small. There are still so many who walk around blinded. They still believe they are free and don't see a reason to rebel. And until something happens that disturbs their perfect little lives they will continue to support the system and they won't seek the truth.

Hypothetically of course, IF we were to create a movement, I would say the start would be to spread the word. Plant the seeds of questions to the public. Signs on the streets in every city that ask the important questions and peak the curiousity of the normal person. In turn that person will try to research that question and then we have people searching for truth. If this was done on a national scale, or better yet, a GLOBAL scale, it would make a huge impact. Then, once you have the people's attention, you can start with real action...boycotts, protests and the like.
Until the public knows what we are fighting for, I fear any movement would be in vain.

All hypothetical of course.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by anonymousATS
 





So, we've identified a handful of "badguys". Problem is, these badguys are protected by men with guns. Men with guns that work for corrupt governments. Is there a theoretical solution to that?

Can such problems be addressed within the serious restrictions of an entertainment bulletin board?


Knowledge and understanding is the first step in developing a solution to a problem.

Unfortunately, in society today, people are so used to instantaneous responses and solutions, before the PROBLEM has been fully analyzed, and the players have been completely identified. I suggest that at this point, we know there is a problem, but in my humble opinion, I don't think we yet understand the extent of it, nor have we identified the players involved in this plot. What we see are the 98% that are affected by it, but the TRUE perpetrators remain hidden. The best we have been able to do is give them a name- NWO, Illuminati, Bilderbergers, etc. It may even be more than one group of real people, working independently, and with different agendas.

In any project, what needs to be done is:

Set up Initial team and rules, identify the players
Define the problem
Gather the facts
Develop a solution
Test the solution
Implement solution
Check for feedback

We are at the first step. There is a long way to go, but bypassing each step is guaranteed to result in failure. In business, we would call such an attempt to bypass the steps "reactive management". In such systems, people merely search for a scapegoat, then shoot them, and assume the problem has been solved. In reality, all they have done is ensure that the problem continues.
If you don't get to the root cause of the problem, identify the problem, and design a solution to the problem, all you have done is treat an insignificant consequence of the problem, while leaving the problem deep rooted, and even harder to see.

Let me put it more in the vernacular. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was the crisis we are in today. There IS NO instant solution. That, in plain English is WHY what Congress did, ONLY MAKES THE PROBLEM WORSE, because they have NOT identified the true problem, but have COVERED IT UP with money, and further empowered the perpetrators.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by reticledc
 


Are we one species? Yes & no. But we do need to adopt a mindset of oneness to evolve this reality.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by populardisbelief
 





Rightly said but you forgot to add Christians vs Anti-Christians.

Yes, of course, that is just one more "us vs the" that they use to divert people from the cause of the problem. There are many other diversions that could have been mentioned, of course, Vegetarians vs. non-vegetarians, etc., but the point is they are just all diversions from allowing us to focus on the real problem that we have today. Caesar has provided us with "Bread and Circuses", and the crowds cheer, while Caesar raids their coffers.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by angel4change
 





Hypothetically of course, IF we were to create a movement, I would say the start would be to spread the word. Plant the seeds of questions to the public. Signs on the streets in every city that ask the important questions and peak the curiousity of the normal person. In turn that person will try to research that question and then we have people searching for truth. If this was done on a national scale, or better yet, a GLOBAL scale, it would make a huge impact. Then, once you have the people's attention, you can start with real action...boycotts, protests and the like.
Until the public knows what we are fighting for, I fear any movement would be in vain.

All hypothetical of course.



Hypothetically in this conspiratorial thread, I agree with your hypothetical remarks.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 12:45 PM
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Great topic.

The tool that has been used against the average person is the same tool for the past 200 years; money. We work for money, but the Banks create it. The Banks get the privilege of loaning out 10 dollars for every one they have on deposit. This is called "leverage." In 2004, Paulson (reigning baron at the Fed) begged for more Leverage for financial companies. Please note that it wasn't the actual failure of mortgages that caused Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to fail -- it was that they were allowed to get into high risk investments. The bigger problem with Leverage, is it allows you to control a lot of investments to make lots of money on the upside -- but have lots of exposure on the downside.

There is a lot to this, so I'm going to be brief, you can get far more detail on "these sorts of things" at Market Ticker. Now, it is interesting to note, that there were plenty of profits being made on NINJA mortgages, and even more money made -- 20 times over, on the speculation on the value used by these assets on unregulated markets. The CDS and Derivatives markets are about $64 Trillion and $1.2 Quadrillion -- which can actually ZERO out, and gets really big because there are puts and calls and both the upside and the downside of all transactions are covered. It is insurance, but not regulated as such, and it is speculative investment, but not regulated as an investment or taxed as the high-stakes gambling that it is. Golden Rule must apply. The problem is -- that even if these transactions can zero out, it you cannot trust, or know, the underlying costs, or who is actually worth their credit rating -- the imbalance of trying to setting these accounts can bankrupt any nation on earth -- just with an accounting error. The TOTAL output of the world in a year is something like $60 Trillion.

But let's get down to the criminality -- the culprits. I can't say who ultimately pulls the strings, but we can see their proxies; Paulson, Bernanke, Bush, Cheney (all the NeoCon leadership), Tony Blair and the latest English PM -- just look at anyone who has had an association with the Carlysle Group. Also, an quasi religious group (if, serving yourself and doing whatever you want can be considered a religion) called "The Family." In 2007, Negroponte used the provisions of the Patriot Act to go to 5 of the top Financial Corporations and allowed them to bypass SEC rules, so that they could go beyond 12x leverage and up to 40 -- perhaps 80. For God, Country, and your own pocket -- it was probably an easy sell. All but Goldman Sacks is under now -- but the executives were not harmed.

Fundamentally, what Thomas Jefferson was warning about with private banks (and he is my patron saint in my book -- the world was a better place because of this one man), is that -- unless someone can explain this to me -- they are designed for failure. The PEOPLE always back the currency -- not the banks. As we can see with this bailout. A bank can use leverage (create money by lending more than they have on deposit -- called "factoring") and can charge interest. Now, the same dollar can get more work done, by changing hands at a faster rate -- called the "velocity of money." So for a time, computers and massive bubble trades have kept the game going. But a private bank cannot keep functioning and making a profit, without creating more debt. Someone has to take out a loan for $10 for every $1 a bank gets. Creating a debt of $9. Where does that money come from, except from adding to an imaginary shadow economy of debt? I do not see any way, that our financial system CAN keep working forever -- it has to eventually collapse and make all money worthless -- or, something worse can happen.

Well, something worse is going on. The world funds the US lifestyle by buying $2 Billion in debt per day. They have to keep doing this -- or their previous investment goes away. Even if the US cannot repay them and never will -- they cannot get off this treadmill, or their financial systems collapse. Much more, when the US got off the Gold Standard, and kind of became the default currency for trading Oil -- we have a new standard that might be backing our currency; the ability to launch Nuclear Missiles -- our military itself may be the "value" that backs the dollar, and this is tolerated by the world with 720 military bases because it is the status quo and anything else is anarchy. If China does not buy US debt, they all of a sudden have at least 20% of the population out of work and perhaps starving (because they need our food). That might lead to a revolution.

So every country in the world is printing money -- so on balance, all the worlds currencies don't become worthless, because as the Fed prints dollars, the German bank prints Euros. But we are reaching a divide by zero error soon. The dollar an your pocket is worth less and less.

Also, there may be a total sham in the offshore accounts that buy our debt. It may be some group from the US orchestrating financial collapses because they have money to do it -- they make the money. All financial systems are collapsing and they are solving the problem, by using guarantees of money from Citizens to the financial institutions -- there is not enough money in the world to do this - or should I say "value." Because the shadow economy of debt that will never be paid is growing exponentially. It is all about keeping track, and keeping the illusion of value to keep everyone busy.

If the PTB setting up a NWO on THEIR Currency, are allowed to trade their phony money for ours, they will keep the Bank sham going, and we will never see the balance sheets or the end of our debt. The only solution is Banks controlled by the people. They will just keep track of our debt, and the imaginary debt can grow forever.

What we can do, is to become self-sufficient, and create our own supporting communities. If we cannot have our own currency -- perhaps precious metals, then it would take barter. The BEST result of the collapse, is to make money worthless -- super inflation. Because then everything stolen will have no power. Our debts won't matter, either. Labor and THINGS then become valuable because the robber barons still need to eat, and have others do things for them - but all they will have is worthless money. I guess this is a bit more radical, than prudent oversight -- but ultimately, the only thing that will allow Labor to be valued again.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by VitriolAndAngst
 





Fundamentally, what Thomas Jefferson was warning about with private banks (and he is my patron saint in my book -- the world was a better place because of this one man), is that -- unless someone can explain this to me -- they are designed for failure. The PEOPLE always back the currency -- not the banks. As we can see with this bailout. A bank can use leverage (create money by lending more than they have on deposit -- called "factoring") and can charge interest. Now, the same dollar can get more work done, by changing hands at a faster rate -- called the "velocity of money." So for a time, computers and massive bubble trades have kept the game going. But a private bank cannot keep functioning and making a profit, without creating more debt. Someone has to take out a loan for $10 for every $1 a bank gets. Creating a debt of $9. Where does that money come from, except from adding to an imaginary shadow economy of debt? I do not see any way, that our financial system CAN keep working forever -- it has to eventually collapse and make all money worthless -- or, something worse can happen.


Great post. You obviously understand the current machines of the economics system of the world.
What I have quoted of yours above, of course, is nothing more than a gigantic Ponzi Scheme made famous by Charles Ponzi, and used over and over again by the PTB in such instruments as the US Social Security Scheme, which is reaching the point of total collapse because the number of investors remaining cannot sustain paying those trying to collect.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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As I said before I think the first step needs to be a movement to inform the public. I like to think of "Fight Club" with the masked men going out in the middle of the night and creating havoc. Not destructive havoc like in the movie, but the type of havoc that cannot be ignored. This is the beginning stage.
The question is what is the goal? Where does humanity want to be? Do we need a monetary system? What laws serve to improve our lives verses repressing our freedom? Where do we draw the line between a free society and anarchy? The solution is not an easy one to be sure.
What is most moving to me is the idea of the Venus Project.
The fact is that we HAVE the resources right now to feed and house every person on the planet. We HAVE the technology to use renewable energies and save our planet. We don't need to be slaves to the system any more.
Of course the idea isn't perfect; it is still in the beggining stages but my point is that we have to unify for a common goal. If every person sees a different solution then we are just creating new differences for us to argue about and perpetuating the same results...DEVISION.
Human intuition and creativity is what has created our great civilizations. Now the wicked and power-hungry forces of the world seek to destroy that. But I believe that the great human spirit can overcome that and that our intuition and creativity is what will save us in the end.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by VitriolAndAngst
 


Great post, thanks.

What other option there are available to substitute or eliminate money system?
Self sufficiency can go very far, but it has limits. How to maintain or may be increase our living standard without money?

Any ideas on solutions?

[edit on 25-10-2008 by FIFIGI]

[edit on 25-10-2008 by FIFIGI]



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by angel4change
 


I'm undecided on the Venus Project overall, but I believe real change is comprised partly of forsaking the culture of official secrecy in general. There's an intelligently nonhuman dimension to all that's going on that the ZEITGEIST ADDENDUM crowd doesn't begin to address. Call me crazy and lock me up now if you must... MUFON and FAA radar returns don't lie.

Forgot to add: I'm astounded at how a native English speaker, if applicable, can miss the spelling of division.


[edit on 25-10-2008 by Lightworth]



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 01:38 PM
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A control freak has a sickness of the mind that can't be satiated.

No matter how much control they have,they want more.
If a control freak has free reign upon the THING they control,it will eventually cause the thread to die.
I have attracted control freaks like flies my whole life
.
The only ways I have been able to effectively deal with it is as follows.

Indifference-totally ignore their attempts without emotion,pretend they don't exist and just walk on by and live my life the way I and others of like mind see fit never stray from the topic at hand. You need nothing from them,make it so

subtle manipulation- be better at their game than they are. Let them think they are leading me down the path till I turn to them and take control.
Make them reliant on you then sever the connection.

Randomness- I just get totally random in actions and deeds. This is the most frighting thing for a control freak because they need the structure around them. group randomness is not a welcome chaos to a control freak
once they cant control their off topic posting they move on.

Self reliance on facts(as a group as well)say your peace and act upon it

don't feed the trolls



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


You have pretty much nailed the No. 1 reason why we are not living on our own family planets, out among the stars. People will argue even if their point is pretty tenuous. It has to do with wealth and power actually.
Person A will lose 'face' (power) if the point that has been considerably argued is then easilly or suddenly conceeded. The loss of power has a high potential to equate to a loss of wealth or prosperity. After all, if you're at the bottom rung, if noone likes you, or respects your viewpoint, your likely to stay right there at the bottom, hence no prosperity/lack of wealth. (This of course has knock on effects on the mating game, as most humans desire a strong / healthy partner or mate, due to our own unconcious desire to procreate)

Anyone that's been alive for more that a few decades will know this, most people will know instinctively whatever their age is, but will continue the cycle anyway.

The answer? Hmmm...Well, there doesn't seem to be an easy one to be had, humans being humans. If you can somehow get rid of money and personal wealth (money equating with power), gradually, humanity will begin to lose it's need (for the above reasons) to compete, thus a more harmonious existence should be has by all.

Apart from that, perhaps a dedicated thread, highlighting a topic voted as being the No. 1 priority or most urgent, could be started. BUT, only for people in agreement (as much as is reasonable) with the original post's main thrust and tenor. Negative viewpoints or unsuportive remarks should be banned or made clear that the will be deleted asap. The negativists would be more than welcome to start another thread or topic that is more in line with their particular viewpoint. The 'Pro's' could have *constructive* dialogue, without undue distraction and possibly form a consensus and plan a way to progress, while the 'Con's' could do the same. Perhaps retain a common forum, where the same old same old can continue as is, but make it clear the 'dedicated' threads, will not contain dissention.

All sounds a bit orwellian, but it's quite innocent really. Could work too...

spikey.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by Lightworth
 


I hear what your saying Lightworth...at least I think I do. And I think we need to focus on what we do have the power over. The non-human aspect or what ever you want to call it is completely out of our control. But the way we treat eachother, and the way we treat our planet. These our the things we as a human race need to unite and fight for.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by angel4change
 


Human and, if truly applicable, hybrid (or whatever future name)... Would like to add that at least most of those dismissed as control freaks here today will most likely be historically known as truthseekers.



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


So you're the OP...

I would strongly suggest you to read the name of your Thread.

Did you breathe and think before writing this:

"Knowledge and understanding is the first step in developing a solution to a problem.

Unfortunately, in society today, people are so used to instantaneous responses and solutions, before the PROBLEM has been fully analyzed, and the players have been completely identified. I suggest that at this point, we know there is a problem, but in my humble opinion, I don't think we yet understand the extent of it, nor have we identified the players involved in this plot. What we see are the 98% that are affected by it, but the TRUE perpetrators remain hidden. The best we have been able to do is give them a name- NWO, Illuminati, Bilderbergers, etc. It may even be more than one group of real people, working independently, and with different agendas.

In any project, what needs to be done is:

Set up Initial team and rules, identify the players
Define the problem
Gather the facts
Develop a solution
Test the solution
Implement solution
Check for feedback "

This is not ironic... it is simple question....

Think before you answer... read it and think.



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