Self Mutilation: Self Injury Disorder

I think . . .

1. perfectionism on the part of parents can be a factor . .

2. a sense of emotionless detachment--absence of an emotional bond with another human leaves one desperate to feel alive. The pain of the cutting is at least a bit exciting and not as horrid as the hollow empty void of feeling nearly NONEXISTENT in a kind of emotionless empty horrifically alone fog.

3. parenting wherein there was a lot of destructive double-binding--the kid being damned if the kid did and damned if the kid didn't--can lead to extremely exasperating frustration not uncommonly taken out on one's self.

reply to post by silo13


In Reply to my earlier post...

"We are male and female. We are artists, athletes, students, and business owners. We have depression, DID, PTSD, eating disorders, borderline personalities, bipolar disorder, or maybe no formal diagnosis at all. Some of us were abused, some were not. We are straight, bi, and gay. We come from all walks of life and can be any age. We are every single race or religion that you can possibly think of. Our common link is this: We are in pain. We self-injure. And we are not freaks."

Please be aware the information in this post may cause *Triggering*.
If you are a Self Injury person - please read in PEACE.
I’m passing on this information to help others understand the Self Injury person.
I mean no threat - I’m here to cause no harm.

Remember always...

There is no shame to Self Inflicted Injury.
If you cause physical harm to your body in order to deal with overwhelming feelings, know that you have nothing to be ashamed of. It's likely that you're keeping yourself alive and maintaining psychological integrity with the only tool you have right now. It's a crude and ultimately self-destructive tool, but it works; you get relief from the overwhelming pain/fear/anxiety in your life. The prospect of giving it up may be unthinkable, which makes sense; you may not realize that self-harm isn't the only or even best coping method around.

(link)

Self-injury involves deliberate harm to oneself without conscious suicidal intent and not for sexual pleasure.
Primarily, it is used as a coping mechanism.
It is sometimes called self-harm, self-abuse, self-mutilation (a term which most self-injurers hate), or self-inflicted violence.
The generally preferred term, however, is self-injury.
Common forms of self-injury include, but are not limited to: cutting, burning, picking at the skin, interfering with wound healing, hitting, and biting.

The person who self-injures is almost never a threat to others; the only person he or she would even think about harming is his or her own self. The internal pain is turned inside out, but never goes any further than the person's own skin.

Self-injury is NOT "attention-seeking."

On the contrary, people who self-injure are often very clever in hiding their wounds, and equally clever at making excuses when their wounds are discovered. (snip) Because of the stigma attached to SI, they may even be ashamed of what they are doing. People who are either "careless" in letting their wounds show or who confide in others about their self-harming behaviors are merely asking for help, probably in the only way they know how.

(see)

There are many different reasons why a person might turn to self-harm. Studies have shown that the brain releases endorphins when a person is injured, which may explain the feelings of calmness commonly experienced after self-injury.

Who of you reading this take a drink when you’re tense. Smoke? Use food for comfort? Sex?
There are any number of ways humans choose to alleviate stress and the majority of these options for stress relief are extremely lethal to the body as a whole.
Smoking kills more people per year than many diseases combined.
Drinking causes untold numbers of death by excess (drinking and driving, cirrhosis, etc).
Overeating and obesity is so rampant at this time in history it’s a modern plague.
Sexual promiscuity leads to physical, emotional, psychological harm and death.

Self Inflicted Injury People are different than the above body abusers!

Self Inflicted Injury rarely (if ever) is attributed to long term health problems.
What about the scars you ask?
People don’t die of scars.
You see the scars... S.I’ers see beauty marks - their own badge of courage.
Marks where they’ve reclaimed their body and reclaimed their life.
Scars that prove they are alive and want to stay alive.
Battle scars that prove ownership of their own souls!
Funny, tattoos show so little, yet are widely accepted, but you see a scar on someone who self injures and you’re repulsed.
Change your mind - change you ignorance!

Some (S.Iers) are comforted by the sight of their own blood...maybe they weren't allowed to cry when they were younger, and blood has replaced tears for this person, or it is otherwise symbolic somehow of "getting rid of the pain."
For people who are victims or survivors of physical or sexual abuse or molestation, it may be a way to "reclaim" their body, a pain that they can control, or a way to stop flashbacks or keep themselves from dissociating.
It may also be used as a way to release tension when a person feels anxious, angry, scared, stressed out, or any other "negative" emotion.
S.I behavior is in no way related to suicide or failed suicide attempts.

What about the pain?
It’s an interesting 50/50 - the S.Iers that report they *feel pain* while self injuring, and those who do not.
I tend to believe that’s because there are two main categories (with many sub categories) of S.Iers.
The ones who *use* the pain to live.
And the *bloodletters* who release the blood to live.
Note: Their bodies work in the same way. Natural endorphins (the bodies *happy juice*)are released bringing rapid relief from tension, stress and emotional pain.
I’ve found through the years *bloodletters* tend to be the S.I’ers who’ve also experienced childhood sexual assault.
This is not by any means stating *painers* have not... God help them both!

JAMA reports:

Nonfatal self-inflicted injuries are most common among adolescents and young adults - few studies have investigated these types of injuries among adults aged though 65 years.
Older adults are one of the fastest-growing population groups in the United States.

One of the problems the S.I community faces today is health care.
Health care providers are ignorant when it come to S.I behavior.
It’s most important to educate doctors and nurses in the E.R concerning the Self Inflicted Injury
It’s not suicide.
It's not psychotic.

It’s their way to LIFE until the S.I’er finds a better coping mechanism.

Learn.
Accept.
Love.

[edit on 25-10-2008 by silo13]

reply to post by silo13


Yep your right there, silo. People should be careful about triggering, thats why i never described what i did to myself.

People should be careful, and not describe all the things they do, in case of this.

Plus, no one person has all the answers why people do things. We are not of all the same mind, so i may do things for different reasons, than another person. So anyone here looking for help, should heed that before, accepting that anyone is right here.

Andy,
Hang in there - you're not alone.

I was off finishing a post on how to help SII People and I come back to your post.

Your remind me just reminds how beautiful SII people are.

I've never met a SII Person that isn't kind, loving, and always caring and careful for another human beings well-being.

I'm so amazed these people who've gone through so much personal hell, can remain so gentle and loving to others.

Thank you again...

...hope...

reply to post by silo13


Helping Self Inflicted Injury People to Heal

SII is a very effective coping tool.
Most S.Iers don't feel they need to stop harming as it's working just fine thank you.

For those who want to help?

Ask them where it hurts.

Be loving, non judgmental and don't turn away from their scars.
Let them explain their *way* of coping, if you're up to it, let them show you.
No, don't ask them to perform like a circus monkey, but, in an attempt to gain their trust, explain to them lovingly, that if they ever want *company* when they feel the need to injure, you'll *be there* for them.
Sometimes that's enough for the S.Ier not to harm themselves, but be prepared for the time when it is not.

You need patience, love and more love, and an understanding that goes beyond probably anything you've ever had to call on in yourself before.

Here’s some information I’ve had tucked away - and a Link - here.

People who self-injure often say that knowing they can use self-injury to manage intense feelings is the only thing that keeps them from suicide.
Some mental health professionals now recognize that focusing on the elimination of SII at all costs is actually harmful and may even increase suicidal thinking or attempts.

What helps people heal from the need for SII?
People heal from SII in various ways. While some find it useful to focus all their energies on eliminating SII from their lives, others find that the need for SII diminishes as they focus on healing from the traumatic experiences they have survived.

The trauma that leads to self-injury may include profound emotional pain and shame, disconnection from one’s own body, the environment, and the people. The first step to healing is identifying the repercussions of past trauma. As the deep emotional pain is acknowledged and released, and the survivor learns about his/her strengths in survival and gains control over other aspects of his/her life, the use of SII generally abates without specific behavioral intervention.

People who use SII are often helped significantly by talking with others who themselves have healed from the need for SII. Just knowing that others have gotten past the need creates hope for a life without self-injury.
For agencies, mental health providers, and private practitioners, trauma-informed mental health services are the key to helpfully addressing SII. Trauma-informed services understand that a wide variety of psychiatric “symptoms”—including SII—are adaptations to trauma that help profoundly wounded people cope.

What is hurtful to people who live with SII?

Sometimes, the people who care most, and who genuinely want to help, actually can do harm.
Currently, emphasis remains on efforts to stop self-injuring behavior at all costs.
Family, friends, professional and paraprofessional providers often react to self-injury with confusion, anger, fear or disgust. They simply want the behavior to stop—now.

Those who care about a person who self-injures often feel it is their responsibility to keep the person safe, and feel it is their own failure if the person continues to cut or otherwise injure him or herself.
This is a particularly poignant dynamic if the self-injuring person is a child or adolescent.

But interventions such as forced hospitalization, restraint and seclusion, overmedication, and “don’t cut” contracts are coercive and shaming.

These approaches reenact the person’s earlier experiences with loss of power and control and most often resultin re-traumatization.
The use of force is oppositional to healing from SII and is counterproductive in the long run.

Learn from people who themselves have healed from the need for SII.
Help people identify their reasons for using SII as well as to explore alternatives to self-injury that might satisfactorily serve the same purposes for them.

The importance of the relationship cannot be underestimated. Because the experience of trauma is isolating to begin with, and people react so strongly to discovery or disclosures of self-injury, a genuine connection based on mutual respect rather than on power dynamics is invaluable to those who use SII.

People, use your HEARTS, please.

Thank you...

Since I was 14 I had been cutting myself. It originally started from my facsination with drawing things on my skin. Then it grew into the desire to release my pain through it. I used to just do it all the time, not for attention because I didn't want anyone to know. This went on for years, with a dozen attempts to kill myself in various manners. It's a very difficult subject to talk about, but this is anonymous.
Here I am 4 years later, and it's been a little over 200 days since I have harmed myself. You were curious as to how someone 'gets over' this kind of thing, you don't really ever grow out of it. It's like going through an addiction, at least it is for me. The only difference in the way things are now is: when I cut I blackout, destroy myself, then relize what i did and regret it. Even today I feel triggered to when i see knives. These days I take anti-depressants for my depression and anxiety.
I hope this helped.

From a Mommy's perspective...I think this behavior is a throw back to the very early stages of toddlerhood. What is the fastest way to get attention from your parents? Being injured or in danger.

Cutting and similar disorders are fundamentally a cry for attention that has morphed into an obsessive-compulsive behavior.

IMO.

[edit on 25/10/2008 by kosmicjack]

reply to post by kosmicjack


I couldn't disagree more, I really strived to hide my "issue", it was also quite easy for me to do so... as a bit of background, to how I ended up in that position... (m)anorexic (pun intended).

My girlfriend broke her back in an accident, I took 6 months off work to care for her and when she started to heal and could look after herself, I couldn't get my old job back. I started a job as a chef in a pub, it was the most horrible, depressing job I have ever had, there were a few friends that really stuck by me during this, but there were a lot that showed no interest. I was really struggling to pay rent and also to provide care for my girlfriend, I felt like my life was out of control and slowly spiralling down a hole. The only "control" I felt I could exercise in my life was whether or not I ate.

It was so easy to hide this, I could tell my girlfriend I ate at work, was sick of the sight of food after cooking all day, my friends and colleagues assumed I was tired all the time because of my workload and stress. Most people with some form of self-harming "issue" are more than capable of hiding it or at the least the true extent of it (whatever that may be).

This may be a criticism of your point, but it is meant with the best of intentions, I don't think it's at all helpful to state that self-harm is a cry for help, it CAN BE, but that isn't a necessity of the condition.

reply to post by jokei


Fair enough. I hope things are better for you now.

As indicated by another poster, I can also understand where an intense need for perfection or control - as a core issue - could result in this obsessive-compulsive behavior as well.

I found that most people will believe the line "I got in a fight with mom's cat" for so long..

Interesting subject to come up. Sometimes a little burning pain is just more effective at managing deep, intense emotional pain. I know that everyone is different.

This kind of behaviour does scare people away. It seems to either upset, or scare people.

I think this is a method used by lonely people. When you have no one to talk or cry to, you have to find your own way to get the emotions out.

EDIT to add: Do eating disorders really go with this?? They both kinda started for me at the same time.
Helplessness will really make you do weird things.

[edit on 25-10-2008 by LostNemesis]

reply to post by kosmicjack


I also respectfully disagree. I think for the most people that cut it is a private release of pain, and they would be ashamed to admit they are actually doing it, which sometimes feeds their need to cut.

But there are some who do it for attention... like some of the "emo" kids I've noticed seem to be proud of cutting,w hich truly bothers me since it cheapens the problem for everyone involved.

reply to post by LostNemesis

EDIT to add: Do eating disorders really go with this?? They both kinda started for me at the same time.

Eating disorders go hand in hand with SII in much higher numbers than the statistics even mirror.
I've yet to meet an S.Ier that had not battled with some eating disorder at one time or another and the majority of people I talk to admit to having a harder time giving up the eating disorder than they do the S.I behavior.

Hang in there!

Don’t forget my U2U is always open

reply to post by silo13


Silo, thank you. You almost reduced me to tears with your posts, but you hit the nail right on the head.

At the time I was cutting myself it had nothing to do with wanting to commit suicide. I was just trying to SURVIVE the living hell that I was going through. I have finally reached a point where I have found someone who truly loves me, and I have come out of the dark place where I was.

Self inflicted injury is NOT something horrifying or something repulsive. It's a means to survival, and a means to coping. People that have never reached that point have NO IDEA how horrifying it is for the person cutting themselves to get bad news and feel NOTHING about it. And then have more and more and more thrown at them, and be expected to react normally to it.

My scars and the battle that I have come through are something to be proud of. My significant other has helped me to understand that. But I still feel the need to hide the physical scars because of the reactions that I would get from people that were horrified that I tried to commit suicide (in their eyes). My significant other got very upset when she first saw the scars, but she didn't say a word about it because she understood EXACTLY why I did it, and she was PROUD of me for coming through what I did.

People that think this is something horrifying, and something terrible need to understand that it's not. People need to open their minds and LEARN instead of just a kneejerk reaction that they're horrible people, or that they're just crying for attention. Most of the people that cut themselves DON'T want attention, and AREN'T asking for sympathy, and may not even be asking for help. There is NO help that can be given to them, except to be a friend to them and to help them realize that things WILL get better. Trying to stop them is the worst thing you can do. That will make them think that the person that's supposed to love them and accept them doesn't, and will make them feel worse.

There was a night when a friend of mine was telling me that I needed to do this, that and the other thing to get help. Guess what, the help that worked so well for others, may not work well for that person. Most cutters have already tried to get help, and it didn't work. When my friend told me that repeatedly I finally stopped talking to him for awhile that night, because it angered me so much. DON'T tell the person to get help, or what kind of help will help them. They've tried in most cases, and it didn't help them. Be a friend to them. Let them talk to you if they need it, let them NOT talk to you if that's what they need. BE THERE for them, and let THEM decide what they need.

Originally posted by silo13 You see the scars... S.I’ers see beauty marks - their own badge of courage.
Marks where they’ve reclaimed their body and reclaimed their life.
Scars that prove they are alive and want to stay alive.
Battle scars that prove ownership of their own souls!
Funny, tattoos show so little, yet are widely accepted, but you see a scar on someone who self injures and you’re repulsed.
Change your mind - change you ignorance!

I doubt that. Many go to great lengths to hide it. If they thought it was “beautiful” why not get creative with it or practice scarification?

To the posters here that used to cut – did you find the marks beautiful?

Silo I find your extreme response to this a bit odd. At first you attack the OP for DARING to post anything on the topic, then you say discussing it can trigger relapse. Then you go on and on about it and make it sound like a perfectly harmless practice that perfectly sane people engage in and you even say it is a lot less harmful than drinking or smoking. Sounds like a lot of contradictions there.

Now that I'M able to accept them, YES I find them beautiful. So does my significant other. Because they're proof of the fact that I'm still here, and I'm standing on my feet, and I've come through a hell that most people wouldn't understand and wouldn't have come through in one piece. But yet I'm still here, I'm still smiling, and I'm still sane. So YES my scars ARE beautiful.

The reason people hide them is because they don't want the horrified looks, and to have to sit there and explain to someone who DOESN'T know what it's like what they went through, and WHY they did it.

It wasn't that the OP dared to say something on the topic. It was that the OP claimed that they wanted to self revenge, or they were punishing themselves. THEY AREN'T. They are trying to LIVE, and to prove to themselves that they are still alive, and still in there, and still capable of FEELING.

[edit on 10/26/2008 by Zaphod58]

Originally posted by silo13
Do you know the harm that's caused by words (like you wrote) when used in reference to SI behavior?

After the trash you posted I was mighty kind in how I worded my reply!

...taps...

Okay so Silo attacks the Op, and then goes on to say later that cutting is not nearly so bad as smoking. The scars aren't a problem, fine. The cutting rarely leads to death or serious injury, fine. The people engaging in it are not psychotic or dysfunctional, fine.

If it's not so bad then what is the problem with discussing it? Its all good, so why freak out at the op? Silo's extreme and contradicting views makes no sense to me.

Because it's one thing to discuss cutting, and to discuss self mutilation, and another to "discuss" it by saying that it's a cry for sympathy, or self punishment, or counterevolutionary. What the OP said was basically an attack against people that cut themselves, that AREN'T crying for help, or punishing themselves, or anything like what he claimed.

What the OP did was ASSUME that people that cut themselves do it because they hate themselves, or they're trying to kill themselves, or something like that. And he said as much, which was basically putting down people that do it to SURVIVE. It's NOT bad to discuss it, if it is discussed properly, and politely. DO NOT assume that just because someone cuts themself it's because they feel they need to be punished, or whatever. Saying that's the reason they're doing it CAN cause them to feel horrible, and to feel that no one gets them, and CAN lead them to cut themselves more. I know, I was there.

reply to post by Sonya610

In answer, no I don't find my scars beautiful, I'm not particularly ashamed of them though, like my tattoos, they mark points in my life and yeah, to an extent they mark off things I have been through and survived, I don't wear them with pride, in a sense, I think that would be vulgar/unseemly perhaps.

I cut too, but in my early teens and a few isolated incidents in my late teens, my eating disorder came at a time maybe 4-5 years ago now, I think my reasonings behind it were always the same, control.

When cutting it was (and I'm not speaking for anyone else here, just me) my way of venting feelings, mostly anger, I would get to the point where I was so pent-up that it was the only thing I could think of to do to let that emotion out. Even though I was angry/upset I was always quite calm and methodical with my behaviour and would pre-plan so as to be able to hide any scars easily. There was one incident where I was hasty and hospitalised myself unintentionally, managing to get away without a psych evaluation.

This has been an on and off occurence, I haven't cut in years, my eating-disorder is behind me, I eventually sought counselling for it at the patient and kind urging of my (then) girlfriend. My counsellor was great, got me to talk through my though processes behind things, made me feel a lot more sane for how I was acting and helped me to develop other coping mechanisms. It was a long struggle, not easy, but I got there... if anyone else is having trouble with these things, go speak to someone, there are numerous organisations out there to help - and a lot of anonymous free-phone numbers that you can call.

To those reading this that haven't experienced (in one way or another) this "condition" in any of it's forms, please be aware, it's a complex issue, there are many forms of self-harm, many ways to do it, many reasons for doing it and many causes for it.

It's nice to see this thread generally being quite peaceable, let's all try not to mud-sling, if there's anything anyone disagrees with, be open to someone else's opinion and be polite with yours.

If anyone wants to u2u me, that's cool, I have little to offer other than an ear.

As an addendum, I think my major issue was an inability to express negative emotions outwardly, so I focused them inwards - there was never any "badge of honour" or the like for me, other than that I'd "coped", that I'd dealt with these feelings somehow. It took me a while to find other ways of dealing, self/harm wasn't going to be a long term solution.

I hope this helps clarify some things.

reply to post by leapoffaith

It made me decide to go to university and get a degree in psychology which I did. Unfortunateley it appeared that science didn't have the answers either. I come from a warm nest, no childhood traumas or anything.

Yours are words of wisdom. Many of the earlier contributors to this thread should take them to heart.

The idea that maladaptive behaviour is a symptom of some emotional trauma, and that the behaviour somehow symbolizes the trauma or its effects, is one of the oldest psychological 'insights', going back all the way to Freud. Nowadays, it's called symptom substitution.

symptom substitution: an unconscious psychological process by which a repressed impulse is indirectly manifested through a particular symptom, e.g., anxiety, compulsion, depression, hallucination, obsession.

Symptom substitution is one of the few psychological mechanisms nearly everyone understands and accepts as true. We have grown accustomed to seeing our own and others' compulsive or self-destructive behaviour patterns as symptoms of underlying emotional distress. So far in this thread we have seen self-mutilation syndrome interpreted as

• self-punishment or an act of vengeance against oneself
  
• a cry for help or attention
  
• an affirmation of the self under conditions where it feels threatened
  
• an outlet for frustration
  
• a way of replacing an uncontrollable mental anguish with a manageable, physical pain
  
• a way of feeling something when passion and emotion have gone dull
  
  ...and, of course, that good old shrink's standby,
  
  
• Blame The Parents™

However, there is absolutely no clinical data to suggest that symptom substitution actually exists. It appears that Freud was playing at analogies with thermodynamics and simply pulled out the whole concept out of his hat:

Symptom substitution is at the core of Freudian psychology... It is based on the Freudian theory that all symptoms of mental illness are simply a reflection of an underlying unconscious conflict. Freud was inspired by the first law of thermodynamics that says that energy cannot be created or destroyed just turned into another form...

...but according to a new article in Clinical Psychology Review there is virtually no evidence for its existence and the concept should be abandoned...

Source

Here's a link to that CPR paper for anyone who's interested. And here's a quote from it:

The first conclusion supported by the empirical evidence reviewed above is that clinical concerns regarding the dangers of symptom substitution were greatly exaggerated and are essentially baseless. No clear evidence of symptom substitution could be found. While the scientific method cannot prove that symptom substitution does not exist, the lack of credible evidence for it over more than half a century combined with the motivation by psychoanalytic proponents to find and report such evidence strongly suggests that supportive evidence is unlikely to be forthcoming.

'Whatever Happened to Symptom Substitution?' Tryon, W., Clinical Psychology Review #28, p.967

I notice that andy1033 and jokei, who in their different ways clearly know whereof they speak, are wary of taking refuge in the glib judgements of parlour psychology. I trust their self-knowledge.

Buck Division seems to be suggesting that maladaptive behaviour patterns are instinctive drives that have developed in unusual and counterproductive ways; and more even than this, that they may even be the flip-side of an unusually high degree of development in some desirable trait. I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be nearer the truth than the tired old Dobbin of symptom substitution.

Even if it were not the full explanation, how liberating for a cutter or bulimic to realize that the only thing wrong with them is their cutting or bulimia, which might be treated directly and effectively at the symptom level without embarking on a years-long analytical wild-goose-chase after nonexistent repressed traumas.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by Astyanax]

reply to post by Sonya610


Hi Hi!

I'm going to take your posts and try to answer them here all at once instead of foundering the thread in endless replies.

I doubt that. Many go to great lengths to hide it. If they thought it was “beautiful” why not get creative with it or practice scarification?

*Slaps my forehead*
Yes, SIIers go to great lengths to hide their scars.
Here’s a little star for you.
I didn’t say nor did I imply the SIIer was flashing around their scars like a new tat.
Tell me - what do you think when you see a scar on someone?
If you’re honest you’ll say, *Look, that’s a scar*.
Most SIIers I’ve interviewed don't see *Scars*.
The best way to put it is --- they see*MORE*.

As Zaphod58 said:

Now that I'M able to accept them, YES I find them beautiful. So does my significant other.

And that Zaphod is an incredible beautiful thing for both of you. I'm humbled and thank you for that input.

Sonya, as for your *get creative with it* comment, don't be flip, it doesn’t suit you.
SII behavior has nothing to do with scarification and to confuse either or is ignorance.
But ignorance can be cured.
And that leads into answering another question of yours.

At first you attack the OP for DARING to post anything on the topic, then you say discussing it can trigger relapse

The key word in your quote from above is *anything*.
I didn’t *attack* the OP for DARING to post ANYTHING.
I *attacked* the OP for posting pure TRASH - concerning a sensitive subject that should be handles with care, discretion and human kindness.

As for *triggering* It’s common practice for anyone who writes about SII behavior to post a *Trigger* Notice.
Someone who is a practicing SII is forewarned about the content and can choose to go ahead and read the content, or not.

Then you go on and on about it and make it sound like a perfectly harmless practice that perfectly sane people engage in and you even say it is a lot less harmful than drinking or smoking. Sounds like a lot of contradictions there.

What contradictions?
Nowhere in my post(s) did you find any of the above.
The contradictions started with you and the fact that you seem to be the only one who doesn’t understand what my points are about, what my words are saying, and gosh-darn-it-all somehow from you they just come out all spinned.

If it's not so bad then what is the problem with discussing it? Its all good, so why freak out at the op? Silo's extreme and contradicting views makes no sense to me.

There is no problem with discussing it as long as you use fact, and not fictitious fear mongering and supermarket rag magazine labels.

*Freak out* and *Attack*...
Hmm, I’m sorry you feel the need to label me with negativity.
I stand up for the issues I believe in and the people I love, and I love SIIers.
If you find my approach negative, I regret that.
It’s a sad thing when someone makes a stand and others can’t see it for what it is.


Might as well keep going now...

Okay so Silo attacks the Op, and then goes on to say later that cutting is not nearly so bad as smoking. The scars aren't a problem, fine. The cutting rarely leads to death or serious injury, fine. The people engaging in it are not psychotic or dysfunctional, fine.

Don’t put words in my mouth.
I never said cutting was not nearly so bad as smoking.
I pointed out the truth, that, most people use some form of *stress relief* (smoking, food, liquored etc) and each of those relief methods do bodily harm.

SII behavior also does bodily harm - but - extremely rarely leads to long term health issues.

How you twisted all that into me thinking cutting is not nearly so bad as smoking I’ll never know, nor actually do I care.

I also never said SIIers were not dysfunctional!

Psychotic, you bet they’re not - dysfunctional - guess what, we all are.

Hypocrites that label SIIers *psychos* as they raise their whiskey glass and cigarette are just that - hypocrites. The only difference is an SIIers *harm* you can see on the outside, if you ever see it at all.

SII is not *socially acceptable* behavior.
But scarification and tattooing is?

It’s hypocritical and each and every time I see that type of labeling and unfounded pathetic statements made by anyone I will *attack* (there’s that word again) as you call it.

Why attack the OP?

Because the OP obviously knows next to NOTING about SII - as each and every SIIer here that’s posted has agreed.

Somehow, human beings can get into a mode where they wreak severe injury upon their body. They are punishing themselves, and some sort of self-vengeance. One might almost think it was a type of demonic control, of sorts.

Oh give me a break - that kind of ignorance was nauseating to read the first time just as it is now!

I’m not going to go over it again.
If you can’t see my point - or if you're not willing to because this isn’t the first time you’ve had a run in with me here on ATS then I'm sorry for you.
But I do see a need for stern words in the case of the OP and I wont just sit here and let something like that go without a rebuttal.

I might add - just in case you missed it.

I went to a good deal of time and effort to post my own personal notes and information from outside links.

I didn’t just *attack* the OP and run.

I DENIED IGNORANCE and came RIGHT BACK AT IT WITH TRUTH.
Just sayin.

Thanks for your thought,
silo