If socialism is bad, it's time to end the Public School System

a socialist fire department is paid for by the goverment .... the fire protection is what happens when it stops bieng socialist .... or becomes very corrupt


may i ask where you live? country/county will be enough i dont need more im not mailing you a fire extinguisher

Originally posted by Dermo PUBLIC SCHOOLING, SOCIAL WELFARE and FREE HEALTHCARE IS NOT SOCIALISM

Please research socialism and the socialist system. Socialism is not capitalist.

You Americans are still brainwashed from the Cold War..

Its not wrong for your government to use your taxes to help your young/sick/elderly/educations

Your government just pretends that it is so corrupt politicians can spend your hard earned money on big houses/security/war/slavery.

Get a new perspective.

there are no commie's trying to kill you anymore..

I think maybe you should research socialism. Here is one of the more lighter forms of socialism.... social democracy www.socialdemokraterna.se...

Several powerful men in leadership have stated quite clearly that socialism is the step toward communism. So, although it may not be complete control, it certainly is the step toward control.

I do see some benefits to socialism (which might surprise some on here who know my stance)... HOWEVER, I would rather be left to take personal responsibility for the welfare of myself and my children than to trust corrupt politicians to dole out who gets what, how much, and when.

This kind of thinking, socialist thinking, IS being implemented daily into the impressionable brains of our youth. If you don't believe that then you are either unaware with what is taught daily in our school systems or you are ill informed on what socialism really is.


Edited to add: BTW, it IS wrong for the gov't to take money out of our pockets and spread it to those who are ill, blah blah. If more ppl would keep their money, they would be more in the position to help those in their families who are ill and/or are struggling.
As it is now, the $$ money they take from us to supposedly help others, we are required to follow their guidelines for seeking that help and some of those guidelines are against ppl's personal values. It is a form of control that isn't meant to help, but meant to control how one can receive that help.

[edit on 24-10-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by infinite


The Postal service is not run from our taxes. It is funded through the sale of stamps and fees. Kind of like our IRS.

Originally posted by justamomma
Edited to add: BTW, it IS wrong for the gov't to take money out of our pockets and spread it to those who are ill,

This is one of the main points with the US that most people in the rest of the ""Western World"" completely disagree with.

Don't understand the mentality, don't care for the ideals behind it. I find it disgusting to think that such a wealthy nation can have so much greed and selfishness.

But.. everyone to their own.

And don't tell me that all wealthy Americans would help their poor, sick, ill etc. That concept is laughable.

reply to post by Dermo



Well, I don't completely disagree with your statement about finding the greed in this country disgusting... but that view can be expanded to other countries as well. Mexico is much worse. Mexico is actually a very rich nation that most are oblivious to and that is simply because those in control make sure that those deemed "worthless" have nothing.

You are generalizing all Americans to fit into this catagory of greediness when actually most are not. My family personally has given up my parents time and some of our money and goods to help the ppl in Zambia and I have seen countless of my fellow citizens VOLUNTARILY give up their earnings to help others both in this country and in others during hard times.

So, your general opinion of those in my country is false. If you specified it to those in positions of leadership, you would be more right on with your line of thinking and thus should be able to understand why so many here are mindful about handing over their earnings to those who ARE the greedy and selfish in our society.


[edit on 24-10-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by Dermo And don't tell me that all wealthy Americans would help their poor, sick, ill etc. That concept is laughable.

BTW... this statement goes to show your bigotry towards those living in America simply because they are living in America.

I have not seen one person state that all the wealthy Americans would help their poor, sick, ill, etc. What I will state is that they should not be obligated to do so.

You assume that everyone here is wealthy and that is your misconception that muddies the reality of the situation. True, Americans have much to be thankful for; but false that all are able to afford what it may appear from what you are hearing and seeing broadcasted.

reply to post by noobfun


Northwest Tennessee.And it is extorsion by the fire dept.It costs you $100 to get on their "protected list".Even though your home owners ins.covers the fire call. Now they have changed it up a bit and say they will attend "unprotected" fires but will place a lien against your property for cost recovery.Estimated at $5000 per call.

It's just a money maker for them.I questioned the fire chief about federal money the dept recieves and he had me escorted out of the building by the police.Still no answer.

Originally posted by justamomma

BTW... this statement goes to show your bigotry towards those living in America simply because they are living in America.

I have not seen one person state that all the wealthy Americans would help their poor, sick, ill, etc. What I will state is that they should not be obligated to do so.

You assume that everyone here is wealthy and that is your misconception that muddies the reality of the situation. True, Americans have much to be thankful for; but false that all are able to afford what it may appear from what you are hearing and seeing broadcasted.

Maybe i was a bit harsh in my wording, btw I have been to the US and had this discussion face to face with some of your fellow patrons while in your country so it really comes down to a difference of opinion borne of different history and culture.

There is plenty of excessive wealth in the US that is squandered on excessive materialism.. as with here.
The main difference here is that while many are wealthy and many are not so fortunate.. none will suffer to be below the breadline unless they are caught in a loophole in the system.

The mentality for this probably comes from a tri century history of massive poverty and the need to not leave anyone suffer this existence while times are good for others.

While there are aspects of our system that i don't fully agree with for numerous reasons, the common argument from the vast majority of Americans against this system goes like this - "It is communist.. you are a nazi, its our money, why should we hand over our hard earned money to help the poor" - all while your taxes go to funding a regime that has killed millions.

Its a mentality i understand but don't 'get'.

btw - no offense meant at all.

Originally posted by daddyroo45

It's just a money maker for them.I questioned the fire chief about federal money the dept recieves and he had me escorted out of the building by the police.Still no answer.

o_0 thats just outright extortion in the criminal sense unless of course nebraska doesnt actuall pay for the fire service

but im pretty sure americas fire service is payed for with goverment money the same as in the uk

reply to post by Dermo


While I appreciate the admission, I did not take offense at all. I am often guilty of seeing things through a muddied perspective as well.

I hear what you are saying. I do not think that socialism = communism per se. What I do KNOW is that socialism is a step away from communism.

Another HOWEVER though, sometimes, as much as I don't want to live under tyranny, I think that it would do good in the long run for some in this country to understand what it is that they take for granted by living under a communist type government.. This DOES NOT mean though that I will be standing up for it and/or not fighting against it.

I think that a lot of ppl have gone literally to the brink of insanity w/ their view of freedom and also with consumerism... however, there are some of us here that don't need the extreme lesson of socialism or communism; and also one must realize that the corruption comes mostly from the gov't (and/or those pulling the strings of the gov't) which can be said of most any country.

One could see paying taxes for public schools, Fire, and police as insurance and even investments. Insurance against criminals robbing me, against my house burning down uncontrolled, and against completely uneducated people running rampant in the streets. I see the the education of our children as an investment. An investment in the future of this country... In it's future leaders and citizens. You can split hairs, but these functions of a civilized society do not fit the definition of socialism in my view. Just a few systems to separate us from pure anarchy.

Originally posted by justamomma

While I appreciate the admission, I did not take offense at all. I am often guilty of seeing things through a muddied perspective as well.

I hear what you are saying. I do not think that socialism = communism per se. What I do KNOW is that socialism is a step away from communism.

Im going to have to go back to my original point and state that free education, healthcare and social welfare is arguably NOT SOCIALIST.
Its just another way of looking after your 'down and outs'.

I think that it would do good in the long run for some in this country to understand what it is that they take for granted by living under a communist type government.. This DOES NOT mean though that I will be standing up for it and/or not fighting against it.

I might have picked you up wrong here but i don't live in a communist, ex communist, socialist, ex socialist, fascist,
ex fascist country. And neither does the vast majority of the rest of the world.

This was also a point that i was trying to make with my first statement, people from the US rant on about freedom as if it is a rare gift. i just assume it is residual propagandist beliefs left over from the cold war.

Research the worlds most free countries, both in freedom of speech and economic freedom.. the US is not ranking at the top.

Anyway, my little rant is over, just had to get that stuff out there coz they're some of the main things that bug me about the American mentality

Not that it really matters anyway

reply to post by Dermo

Your perspective matters I do admit to having a different view of freedom than many of my fellow citizens.

For instance, I am free to not have my kids in school and deal with the consequences. I choose to not deal with the consequences and have them in school, but at the same time, to keep a close watch on their activities there and to make sure that at home my values are being implemented into their upbringing.

I am free not to pay income taxes and although there may be consequences for such a decision, I am free to put that money into the lives of those I deem truly needy of that money.

I have heard ppl complain about certain "privacy violations" on the internet and my answer has and always will be that they have the freedom to not log into the internet or any site they feel violates their privacy.

Every choice is made in freedom.

Every choice I make, even if it were done under a tyrannical government, is still a choice that I have made in the name of personal freedom. I am just not the type to wait around and let others tell me that I am free or not to do something or not to do something.

I tend to weigh out each decision based on the consequences and/or benefits and this is a freedom that each and every one of us are afforded as a human being on this earth. Any freedom that a person does not possess is merely a freedom that they chose to give up in the name of security no matter what system of gov't they are living under.

So I have yet to see anyone make a convincing case why we should not have Universal Health Care. We seem to agree that we need police protection, fire protection, military defense etc., so why should we not expect health care. Health care would not be nearly as expensive as the $10 billion per month we are spending on the Iraqis. It would be a more useful investment on the future of this country than studying Moose DNA. It is a far better investment than bailing out the greedy banksters on Wall Street. So why is it wrong?

As far as redistributing the wealth in this country, when the top 1% have more money than the bottom 50%, something has to give. I'm not for Communism, but the greed and avarice have to stop somewhere. I certainly think they should pay more in taxes than the rest. Instead, they are the first in line for handouts when the crap hits the fan, as has been seen recently. I also think there should be a salary cap for any and every position. The day of the 'Golden Parachute' must end. We have become far too much like the Roman Empire in it's final days, and if we don't do something, the US will be just another fallen empire in the history books. As the saying goes; "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it", and we are repeating the mistakes of all to many fallen empires. The time is coming very soon when we will have no choice but to either fix our flawed capitalistic society, or it will fall and disappear into the sands of time.

[edit on 24-10-2008 by JaxonRoberts]

Ah! Another Socialist = Communist or Fascist American arguement.

When are you Americans going to get it into your heads that the Cold War is over and there are not reds under every bed and that Socialist policys are actually good for the people.

Socialist policies are not bad ...... okay.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Have you never wondered why the rich have always sent their children to private school, or why considerate parents always homeschool their children?

Public schooling is an honourable concept (as with many left-wing ideas) but it just doesnt work. Thats the reason why public school pupils are almost always a couple of standard deviations away from private school pupils in terms of knowledge and understanding.

Some children work their way through the public system and are immensely successful of course, but these children would do even better in an environment which truly challenged them as opposed to them getting the one size fits all approach of public schooling.

The thought of the founding fathers was that any money gotten by the government from taxation was to be used for the government to function to serve the people. Thus, the military, the police, and the schools are mandated to that end. What is not, is the Department of Education, Planned Parenthood, ACORN, etc. Those would be socialist entities that suck off the government like a tick on a dog.

Socialism, in it's ideal, is that all people should earn equal pay no matter who they are. Medicine should be government operated, and so forth. To that end, heavy tax burdens are laid upon the backs of hard working individuals and successful businesses where that wealth is then transferred to those in siciety who don't want to work hard for it. It's called wealth distibution, or rather "spreading the wealth around".

The end result of Socialism is that the desire of the hard working people is lost as they give up. The entire nation then stagnates and falls into a rapid depression. This happened with the USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics), and led to their downfall.

In America, wealth is created by hard word, imagination, and effort. When heavy tax burdens are lifted, the result is an expansion of the economy, job creation, and success. When people are allowed to keep their wealth, they inspire those coming up behind them to do as they did and gain wealth.

Originally posted by Fromabove

Socialism, in it's ideal, is that all people should earn equal pay no matter who they are.

I believe that is a common misinterpretation. Socialism deals in nationalizing the means of production. People are not equal under socialism, nor do they receive the same wages. Social democrats (which is not an oxymoron) actually advocate socialist ideals under capitalism.

Capitalism is the problem.

It will destroy America and create a HUGE rift, it will also be the reason that every aspect of your lives will one day be controlled by the super corporations.

There´s something else to this that hasnt been mentioned yet...

Socialism, if abused, tends to undermine the individuality of a person. Thats where we get a school-system from that feeds every student the exactly same curriculum. Rather than a school that tries to address an individual childs strengths and preferences, all have to go through the same "party line" all in the name of "equality". This is one of the inherent weaknesses of a system that promotes equality but goes overboard by force-fitting sameness upon people.

In this way are schools are not quite but almost as gray and dull as the schools in communist countries.

We would be able to create a bit more diversity in our public schools...without much extra budget.