THATS IT! IM ......

ok, i got to get this off my chest because there or so many incredibly ignorant people out there that [snip] the [snip]out of me. (and no i havent posted this in dave's topic)

I just recently saw the "mammoth spider devours a bird" thread (already seen this same topic on another forum), and i am not supprised to see people who state that "they should have saved the bird" or giving false information like "that thing could eat a child" and all this stupid[snip].

I am completely enraged at the people who have such a biased oppinion on things like snakes, bugs, spiders and anything really that is a usual suspect for evil and horrid things in this world of nature.

These people are also the same people who give great responces to other threads and have a perfect perseption of opinion and respect towards the original poster or the events that take place. yet they instantly ridicule the simple, natural thing of a living thing eating another living thing. after all we do the same, do we not?

After thousands of years of miss information and hatered caused by word of mouth, untrue resorces, and of course hollywood, have warped the minds of the majority of the world to the point of having extreme phobias over something that they know so little about, but fear so emensly that they dont want to even set foot in the same skyscraper a snake may be in because the boss has one in a terrarium. its irrational and incredibly stupid.

Now, I have worked with scorpions, spiders, tarantulas (which are not true spiders), milipeeds, centapeeds, venomous snakes, snakes in general, 8 foot monitor lizards, geckos, skinks, dragons, and anything else people will generally hold there children back for fear of death. I have studied all of these creatures, and for the most part, can answer nearly anything you would want to or need to know about alot of them (specializing in non-venomous snakes and lizards). I have even convinced a person who could not even stand to be 15 feet from the room where my locked tanks were, because they had snakes in them, and by the end of the day, got him to purchas one. How? Not only because im a great salesman, but because i gave him and anyone else a long history of snakes, along with factual information to everything he would ever need to know. Along with disproving myths, and giving statistics on attacks, deaths and so on.

Here is yet another story on the ignorance of a person.

"Trooper shoots agressive 'python' in Ottwa County"

Brian Ahlin thought he saw a large stick in the middle of 156th Avenue in Ottawa County Monday morning until it reared up and started attacking the side of his pickup.

"I was driving to my home on Polk Street and saw this SUV on the side of the road and I what I thought was a stick in the road," he said. "But as I got closer I said, 'That ain't no stick.' And then as I got closer I realized, 'Shoot, that's snake.' Then I got even closer and I thought 'That's a python!' Then, it started attacking the truck."

Ahlin said he was glad to be surrounded by his 5,000-pound 2004 Chevrolet Silverado pickup as the python repeated lunged into the driver's side with its jaws wide open. Ahlin said he was concerned his 50-pound dog would jump out the window and suddenly "become a snack for that snake."

"I'll tell you, this snake was big enough it could have swallowed a kid," he said. "I mean the girth on that thing was huge."

Ahlin concluded he needed to do something and his Silverado, built like a rock, was up for the job. He put the truck in gear and repeatedly ran over the snake.

"I must have run over him 10 times and it didn't do anything," he said. "It was like running over a piece of rubber. He kept bouncing back with his jaws wide open. Let's just say, I wasn't going to stick my head out."


Chronicle/Terry Judd
Trooper Bill Coon displays in the Grand Haven Post a seven-foot-long Burmese Python that had to be killed Monday morning after it lunged at passing vehicles on 156th Avenue in Ottawa County. Enlarge photoTom Moore of West Olive, the driver of the SUV on the side of the road, witnessed the snake attack and called 9-1-1. State Police Trooper William Coon of the Grand Haven Post was dispatch. When Coon arrived, he found a 7-foot-long python lunging at anything that moved, including himself.

"It's jaws were really wide open and he came after me," Coon said. "Even after being run over, it was still lunging."

Coon said he had no choice but to kill the snake. It took three bullets, including one to the head.

"In the eight years I have been a trooper, I've never responded to an animal complaint like this one," he said.

Coon said a Holland pet shop identified the snake as Burmese Python, which is found in Southeast Asia but are bred in the United States as pets. These snakes are capable of growing to more than 20 feet in length and up to 200 pounds.

According to several Internet sites, there is a national problem with owners "dumping" their snakes once they grow to seven-15 feet. At that length, the snakes require eating rabbits several times a month, can produce as much waste as a horse and are extremely difficult to handle.

Coon speculates the python killed in West Olive was a pet that either escaped from its cage or was deliberately released by its owner tired of caring for such a large creature.

However the snake ended up in West Olive, Ahlin believes it was a real danger to children and dogs.

"Something dangerous like that with kids around? Well, we just could not have something like that. I just did not want that thing getting out in the woods."

Now, befor going into further detail, i want to see how many people on this forum are informed enough to pick out the false details throughout that intire news article?

link blog.mlive.com...



Mod Edit - removed profanity - censor circumventions

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 24-10-2008 by elevatedone]

Thats a good thing that man killed the snake. It could have endangered a small child or anyone else that it could over power. If I was in that man's position I would have done the same thing.

If you see a potentially dangerous animal in a place where it should not be then kill it.

Bears, for example, may be beautiful creatures and they play an important role in the ecosystem, but if I see one in my neighborhood, then I am going to shoot it to death.

Originally posted by Ghost147


I just recently saw the "mammoth spider devours a bird" thread (already seen this same topic on another forum), and i am not supprised to see people who state that "they should have saved the bird" or giving false information like "that thing could eat a child" and all this stupid bull#.

I wouldn't agree with saving the bird as that would be interrupting the cycle of nature. But if anyone sees a spider near or in their home, they should kill it immediately unless they want to get bitten. I kill all insects I see in my home without hesitation and you should too.

Now, befor going into further detail, i want to see how many people on this forum are informed enough to pick out the false details throughout that intire news article?

I think. but do not know... that the bs in that article is that it attacked the truck. Also that the owners dump the large pythons. Who would care for a creature that long and get rid of it? Besides, they can either sell it, or donate it to a zoo, or a pet shop.

If you see a potentially dangerous animal in a place where it should not be then kill it.

If all animals had that perspective we would all be killing one another... For man is the most dangerous of animals, and obviously very territorial.

I understand your frustration, but people sometimes entertain their primitive instincts because it excites them and it seems easier to do so than to actually research the subject. It comes down to the psychology and level of education of that individual.


[edit on 24-10-2008 by laiguana]

The guy was lying.

Pythons do not lunge like a cobra. They suffocate their prey first prior to ingesting. Further, snakes use smell as a primary method for sensory perception. There is no way a python identified prey (I don't care how hungry it is) from outside a vehicle...especially enough to get so riled up (which they don't often do if at all).

There was no need nor was there an excuse to run it over repeatedly or shoot multiple times. The python could not have moved quickly enough to catch a human and could have been monitored until animal control had arrived.

That said, Ghost147, please do not circumvent the automatic censors again.

Thank you...

i don't think snakes have girths guys, not if they haven't eaten anything, this story is nothing but a fabricated tale

first off, take a read of this quote (of my words in responce to this article)

This is ridiculous! Lets get a few obvious facts out of the way.

That is no Burmese Python, in fact its not even a python! nor does it come from Asia. Its a Boa constrictor from central-south America, reaching 9 feet on average, possessing no venom, nor any danger. Any average Joe out there can over power that animal with his/her own strength.

There is also no way or reason why a snake would be attacking a vehicle. A person, a possibility, But nothing but humans attack just for the hell of it. It would have to be because the animal was cornered or attacked first

Judging by the size of that relatively small species of snake, it would not be eating rabbits. and if it were, it would be an extremely small one, and would eat once a month. Now, how do you suppose that a tiny little rabbit, im talking a young one, not a huge adult, turn its mass into that of Horse manure. It cant, perhaps in the span of 2 or 3 months could it produce that amount that a horse could in a day.

As ive already read a few others say. There is no way that animal could eat a child, or even a baby.

However, i do agree that there are disrespectful reptile owners out there. But the majority, as you can see from all the responses from them here, are extremely knowledgeable and capable of taking care of such animals.

I recall someone saying something about "thats why we should import animals into the pet trades". Where the hell do you think German Sheppard's come, or most house cats, dogs, birds or fish come from? NOT AMERICA!

Just because you or most people in this country have no or little knowledge towards this entire species that inhabits this planet that you live on, Doesn't mean you can brand it dangerous. Stop believing Hollywood when you see someone put over 20 species of non-venomous snakes on a plane and instantly think that they have the capability of killing someone.

Yet again the news bashes an entire species with false information to fuel the frightened and push the people who do take even the most minimal time to research where we live and who else lives with us into the dirt.

Lets focus on how horrible the people who posses this "disgusting" "slimy" creatures are. Lets see how irresponsible and incompetent they are by showing that one person was forgetful enough to leave a tank open letting their (for the most part) perfectly harmless animal to explore. Lets take their right away to keep these animals because of that incident . Lets take their Right to learn from something that doesn't live from their location on the planet. Lets take their right away to be involved with other country's and their inhabitants.

If someone has a car crash, should we ban all vehicles? if a doctor looses a single patient after 20 years helping the sick and injured, should we take away their license to save a life?

NO!

I am not directing this to the place that this incident occurred, but to anyone that knows so little about this entire species. To anyone that has their prejudice towards this entire species and the people who own them. For the facts are, that your dog and your horse can and do do much more damage than a small, non-venomous snake could ever accomplish. Its the ignorant that explode when they here that a snake got loose instead of someones dog that jumped the fence.

now back to answering a few things here.

kj6754: People like you are the reason i made this thread. because your first thought is "spiders kill people and harm things, they must die". I am currently living in costa rica for a few months, and we have well over the amount of deadly insects and arachnids here then you do in america (assuming you come from america). infact, the average number of spiders in a single hectare in these forests are populated to be around 600... thats spiders only mind you. There is a constant minor population of insects and "creapy crawlies" that live with me in my house that have yet to harm me. Infact, i have never! ever! in my entire life, even after breeding tarantulas, scorpions, crickets, and so on, i have yet to been bitten by one. Why? because statistics show that the most people who get bit by animals are the ones attacking them. such as cornering a snake with a broom stick to get it out of your house, or to kill it.

No! it is a descusting thing that those two men killed that snake. first off, use rational thinking, as you so clearly dont use becuase your first instinct is the same as theirs aparently, and call someone who actually knows what to do, AKA Animal Control, and they will assess the problem with capturing rather than slaughtering. Secondly! that is a boa constrictor, NOT A PYTHON! and by the size of it, it is eating rats. so no even a human baby will not even be thought of as food. I have had 3 boa constrictors (not including the babies they produced) that are well over the length of the one in that artical, the smallest being 11 feet, and the largest being 13 feet. All three of which i would trust alone with a child. why? because humans arent a snakes food source, because we are too big to be a food source, and the only reason for a snake, or anything for that matter to attack, would be because it is defending itself. There is no such thing as an agressive spider, scorpion, snake or what have you. There is only a veriation in the degree of defensiveness.

Spiders, are a good thing to have in your home, whether you think so or not. seeing how they are there for a reason, and that reason is to eat the bugs that are getting in. there for you dont have to bother with them. They dont sneak up in your shoes or bed spread at night. They make their own home in some form of corner, and wait.

This forums saying is "Defy Ignorance" yet ignorance is all i see of you.

I hate spiders with a passion, but if I can get one out of my house without killing it, I will.

Snakes die if I see one. I am sorry but I hate them. One almost killed me when I was three. Ok, I was stupid and tried to pet it, but it bit me anyway and a three year old is no match for a 6 foot rattle snake. If my father hadn't been a forester with a snake bite kit in his truck, I wouldn't be typing this today.

I am not one for killing animals (even bugs) without reason, but fear is a natural response and sometimes a knee-jerk reaction of stomping a bug happens.

I can agree with almost everything you're saying...and I love snakes.

The pythons will lunge if threatened won't they? I'm sure I saw a nature show about pythons and the jerk host set about bothering one and it did lunge a few times before he let it wander off (he grabbed it by the tail and was dragging it out of it's hiding spot)

as for this:

Spiders, are a good thing to have in your home, whether you think so or not. seeing how they are there for a reason, and that reason is to eat the bugs that are getting in. there for you dont have to bother with them. They dont sneak up in your shoes or bed spread at night. They make their own home in some form of corner, and wait.

Nu Uh...I have a deal with the arachnids in vancouver...(most here do not make webs persay and stay in one spot...they are nasty (yes vital) creatures that skulk around and grow to ridiculous sizes.) If they dart out and scare me I kill them. If I happen to spot one and it hasn't darted out...it can stay. it works. My neighbor has a ton of spiders in her place...my "vibe" keeps them away LOL. We have a few resident spiders that follow the rules even one that lives under the radiator (bugger is so big even the cats won't bug him) I see him periodically and he's always careful to come out ever so slowly as to not spook me. Seriously.

Most bugs, insects, snakes and amphibians I have no issue with. It is sad when lack of education causes an animals demise. (yes hypocritical as I am a spider killer) Fear does it.

All we can do is recognize our flaws and failings and try to rise above them as best we can.

Well maybe this will cheer you up.

I was out walking my cat the other night, when all of a sudden he started pulling on his leash to get over toward some leaves.

Before he could pounce, I saw a praying mantis trying to get away before my cat got him.

So, I picked her up. She was very, very cold, and after about ten minutes in my hand she started getting feisty. I couldnt bring myself to leave her out there to freeze, and so I took her in and let her sleep in my bathroom.

(With the door closed so my cat could not eat her.)

The next day, I went out and bought her a little container, with carpet. I put some sticks for climbing and a water dish made to look like a stump, and a bunch of crickets. I named her Sophia.

It was a massacre. She was grabbing up crickets in each claw and chowing down. I felt awful for the crickets. However, the mantis has a home for as long as she lives. And, she is happy as can be. After a quick search on the internet I discovered that due to their nature, (they like to stay in one spot as long as they have a good supply of food) they adapt readily and happily to container life.

So, not everyone dislikes insects and arachnids. Even insects with particularly gruesome dining habits.

Edit to add; I also dont kill spiders. Here in New Mexico we have lots of black widows, and if they are in the house, they get relocated. If they are outside, I put up barriers around their little hidey hole so that they can do what they want but pets and neighbors dont acctidently get bitten.

They are soooo timid. Scary looking, but not an aggressive bone......err....exoskeleton? in their bodies.





[edit on 24-10-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

awwww I wanted to keep a mantis i found once but it bit me (took a rather large slice outta my finger) and my Mom killed it...I remember crying and crying...I was far more angry with my mother than the mantis. Was my fault anyway I was poking it with my finger...duh kids huh?......... You almost lost me after the "taking my cat for a walk..." part though (I take my rabbits for walks on harness I couldn't stop giggling.

and Ghost...you're avatar...it should be rather disturbing but it's really quite serene...where did it come from?

Sorry off topic I know...spiders really creep me out.

reply to post by justgeneric


Surprisingly mantis' make great pets. Who would a thunk it? But the internet abounded with information on keeping them as pets and the pet store people didnt blink an eye when I told them what I needed and why.

Sophia hasnt bitten me, but she did grab on tight with her claws once and it poked. She also likes wet cat food I found out the first night I had her. She is eating some right now off a q-tip. (So she can grab hold of something)

And yeah. walking non traditional leash pets on leashes is fun. I swear my cat is half dog. He even sits on command. Lol.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


thank you. someone with a full sence of nature. I walk my monitors (big lizards) and bearded dragons on leashes too its interesting to see people react to a 19 year old getting dragged around by a 6 foot lizard. i also bring my 13 foot boas to the ravine whenever i can. I also brought my Goliath Bird Eating tarantula to school once (she was around the size of a dinner plate), some fun reactions from that too.

anyway, for that mantis, make sure there are no crickets that are wondering around in the tank. they tend to nibble on your pets when you or they arent watching. you may see loss of legs, feet, claws, fealers or eyes. keep a watch for that. also, not sure where you live, but make sure the humidity is set well, or you may find a sick or dead mantis one day. ALSO! dont put the jar near a window, the sun will heat the air inside unless its well ventilated.

EDIT: my avatar and sig is CG art by Greg Petchkovsky. thanks for noticing! alot of people seem to get alot of different emosions from it.

[edit on 25/10/08 by Ghost147]

Thank you for the tip. I did put all the crickets in her container, I wont do that again. I bought ten of them, and she ate nine the first day. She was a cricket slaughtering machine. I doubt she can eat that many every day though. I was amazed she ate that many that day. (they were sort of small crickets) I was kind of guessing maybe one or two a day until I saw how she wolfed all those down.

From now on, I will just put a couple in at a time so they dont nibble her. She already has part of a claw missing, the very tip of one, and it looks like her wings are damaged from the cold, but thats how I found her. I dont want her getting more damaged than she already is.

If you have any idea what the optimal cricket per day amount is, (two week old crickets) let me know, other wise I will just put a couple in at a time and sort of gauge by how quickly she eats them.

She is about 3 - 3 1/2 inches long.

if you stick with 2 weeks for now then 2-4 a day will do. however, humidity and heat will affect her eating habits. more heat will generally make her eat more. But it also depends on how big you want her to get. do you know what sub species she is spacificaly? also, try gutloading the crickets. gutloading is a term used to power feed crickets with nutritional supliments or foods. so feeding the crickets befor hand can give her a better health. also, you can try dusting the crickets with a suplimentation like calcium. but im not too sure if that is good for a mantis. search that one up.

Thanks. No, I dont know what variety she is, but here is a pic someone posted of a mantis just like her that was supposedly taken in the same state.

Sophia looks just like that, with the slightly brown/yellow parts rather than being totally green, except she is a little less plump in the abdomen. Another 9 crickets, and she will look exactly like that.

www.gardenmandy.com...

hmmm, couldnt tell for sure, what state do you live in?

New Mexico. The land of bounteous snakes, lizards, spiders, and insects.

Oh and Aliens too.

I to live in New Mexico, in a semi rural area that at times has what I would call a virtual plague of rattle snakes. I always try to shoo them off the property with a length of PVC pipe but if I feel the snakes are a danger to my dogs....adios Mr. Rattler

I was stung once by a scorpion, bitten by a black widow....very sick for a couple of days!!