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posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 12:57 PM
I say this as a business owner.

It amazes me how easily people fall for spin whenever the word socialism is mentioned. We are a socialist/capitalist society right now and we should just embrace that truth.

It seems you have 2 sides. One who thinks socialism is okay for business but not working people. The other who wants socialism for the people and not business.

I have to agree with the second group. I think instead of bailing out business, the government needs to provide basic services to the people like roads, new schools and yes health care.

If you ever been sick without insurance, then you know it's the worse feeling in the world. I was reading somewhere that medical bills are the main cause of bankruptcy.

Now, you can do universal healthcare in a free market way that recognizes that we are a socialist/capitalist country.

The concentration of wealth is staggering. This is not good for the country and you have to "spread the wealth" because the government for the last 8 years has given business most of the advantages by deregulation which has allowed some to amass huge concentrations of wealth at the expense of others.

Watch this you tube video.

He talks about how the big 3 oil companies are worth more than every consumer company out there combined except Wal-Mart and this was on FOX Business.

The government doesn't have to control industry but it can put in places things like closing some corporate loopholes and more regulation that will protect the consumer from this huge concentration of wealth.

Check this out:

In America today wealth is distributed more unequally than in any industrial country. The top 1 percent of our population owns half the country's wealth. As for income, the bottom 20 percent take home a decreasing share and the top 20 percent take home an ever increasing portion of the total. The other side of the coin of the relentless fall in real wages is the end of the eight-hour-day.

During the 1920's, for example, 0.5 percent of the families in the United States controlled 32.4 percent of the total wealth--an inequity that was only reduced when the Great Depression dropped their share to 19.3 percent. Since then, the concentration of wealth has crept back up to a higher imbalance. Current trends are promoting not just economic insecurity but social unrest, terrorism, a growing stream of refugees across the globe, and environmental destruction.

Hopefully, we don't have to go through a Great Depression for people to realize that the concentration of wealth is not good and we have to "spread the wealth" for the sake of the country.

The Bush policies have us 10 trillion dollars in debt. He didn't pay for anything these last 8 years. He's borrowed and spent like crazy and deregulated industry.

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:03 PM
reply to post by Wise Dome

You say you want to share the wealth eh!

Your a business man you say? Ok you can share your wealth with me.. Email me we'll arrange a meeting

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:09 PM
reply to post by Truther beat me to it.

Will you share with me too ?

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:11 PM
Yeah, this is fundamentally unfair. If you work for your money, you deserve not to have it taxed into oblivion, just because someone thinks you have 'too much'. I'm in favour of perhaps a 30-40% tax rate for people with high net wealth, but there are extremes.

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:14 PM
"I'll give you my money when you take it from my cold, dead hands!"

what else did that great American say? Oh yeah:

"Get my hands off me, you damn dirty socialist!"

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:16 PM
reply to post by Wise Dome

Well then as a business owner then you should not complain that you are TAXED 60 or 70 percent of what your business makes to maintain all of these great social programs you claim.

What will that do to you as a businessman? Will you hire more employees because you are taxed? Will your business be more competitive? will all of these increases in the tax rate be an incentive for more small businesses to start and thrive? Will people's standard of living increase when no new business ergo new jobs are not created?

For a so-called business man you seem to have very little business sense.

It sound like the only business you are in is selling Karl Marx t-shirts.

[edit on 24-10-2008 by Gateway]

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:26 PM
It amazes me when people act so selfish and they don't think about their kids or their grandkids.

Do you realize that nothing was paid for these last 8 years and we have a debt over 10 trillion dollars?

There's no more free lunch and we have to pay our bills and yes, I would pay higher taxes instead of seeing the country fall deeper in debt and maybe fall into another great depression because of the concentration of wealth.

What people don't understand is, alot of theis wealth wasn't earned it was taken. When you deregulate industry, smart people can manipulate rules and put in place new policies that will fleece the consumer and then wealth becomes concentrated.

The government should be a buffer between the consumer and the corporation. If that doesn't occur then corporations will squeeze the wealth out of a nation because that is what they do, make profits.

There's nothing wrong with that but there has to be a balance.

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:38 PM
But soon the "american dream" will become true again.

Bush leaves.

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:45 PM
reply to post by Wise Dome

Slow yourself. You attempted to break everyone into just two groups, but in doing so you've neglected a very important and very robust third group: REAL AMERICANS. Real Americans who embrace our Constitution and hold dear the values this nation was built on. That group doesn't want a damn thing to do with socialism for businesses or for citizens. We believe in true capitalism and we were equally sickened by the bailout as we are by the idea of wealth redistribution to lazy aholes who just sit around waiting for their handout. We're not a dying breed, but we sure as hell are a persecuted breed as the leftists call us heartless bastards because we believe that a man is entitled to all of his hard earned money to do with as HE sees fit and the neocons call us unpatriotic fools who fail to see the bigger picture of what would happen if the system was allowed to run its own course.

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:50 PM
I don't believe in redistributing wealth. For one thing most people in the world are not capable of handling them (re: they're dumb) and they'll just squander them on pizza or beer.

posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 08:52 PM
While it’s true that the USA has devolved into a socialist democracy from the representative republic that we were founded as, I find that to be no reason to simply surrender to the impending socialist dystopia. The cry’s of socialism regarding Obama coming from the R right are incredibly hypocritical since the redistribution of wealth continued unabated through six years of a recent R majority. The difference between the USA and those countries that we consider socialist like Canada and Western Europe is about 10%. It’s a difference much more in word than deed. Yes, the USA is socialist and a lot of other negative things, but that’s no reason for us to continue our rush toward the cliff.

posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 08:57 PM
What really bothers me is when people want to privatize the profits, but socialize the losses. Where is the capitalism in that. If you want to keep all the profits, then you should also own all the losses as well. That is a FREE MARKET. That is CAPITALISM.

posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 09:27 PM
If you took everything from every American and spread it equally among everyone, in 10 years, the people that are rich now would be rich in 10 years and the poor people now, would still be poor in 10 years. Wealth distribution does nothing but make the rich work harder and the poor sit back and wait for handouts.

posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 09:38 PM
In America, spreading the wealth around is called charity, and it is volentary not compulsive. However, we rejoice in our ability to be all that we can and becaome wealthy. Stealing the money from those who earn it to give it to those who choose not to is a crime IMO. Socialism is a doomed failure. I hope the people get that straight before they vote.

posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 11:10 PM
Sorry people taxes need to go up period. I like Gateway above am for no taxes and very small federal government. But heres the thing. We have to accept big government is here and has been here and is not going anywhere. People like Ron Paul who want the correct change gets laughed off the stage.

So I say to myself why is this. Why does someone who wants small government get laughed off the stage? The reason is because we dont have to pay for this big government. It gets put on a charge card and we get taxed via inflation and through higher and higher interest payments. People dont understand this though and when they do it will be to late if it already isnt to late. I want SKY HIGH taxes. I want people to start paying for this big government we have. I think its the only way we can get the sheeple who are sound asleep to wake up.

So for me elect Barack Obama. tax the rich. Tax everyone to the hilt. You want big government people then we need to pay for it. This scam of the Republicans of claiming small government is now shown to be a farce for President Bush has done what 15 presidents and 90 years couldnt do and that is add 6 trillion on our debt. So yes spread the wealth. hopefully it will wake people up and people like Ron Paul wont look like a nut after all.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 12:06 AM
reply to post by Wise Dome

I will gladly share the wealth, distribute it among the people.

So long as YOU generate it!

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 12:34 AM
To me the issue I have with any socialism is that it creates a lack of desire to Find, Create or build New Wealth.

I think a big part of the problem in America is that people were sold a bill of goods through the 50's-80's where it was believed that all you had to do was go to College and take a good job, nice and easy a paid vacation, a 401 k, money left over at the end of each week, social security when you retire, health insurance.

Everything you want, provided for you by the corporation or business, but I see that whole path as a path to dependence, and now when business can't do the job, instead of go out and create wealth people want the govt, to continue the trend of seeing all their needs met.

America was built on Inventions, Farms, New Industries, Resources... all New Money or money brought from overseas for what we made, created sold, dug up from the earth etc, etc

and that Brings... Real Answers, the creation of new wealth

We are 8 Trillion in debt, division of that debt differently is going to fail to pay for it, it simply more class division.

What we need is NEW Wealth and Money from overseas via Innovation, New Money, More money, new resources

I see, this as being a time to get rich, every one that wants a JOB, sees this as a disaster, but really from the mind of a real Entrepreneur, a depression is Great news... competition is down, prices for land are down right now, rents are down as well, people are looking for jobs and new opportunities, it's easier to recruit and what's more, people are looking for solutions, willing to change, try new things... It's just a great time to be positive and be inventive and create new wealth

There are so many ways to make money right now, by finding ways to save people money... and new technologies are abundant

1: The Internet... It would cost 100.00- 500.00 to start a web business, and right now... to save gas, it's a good time for people to shop online, gas prices and saving money will leave all of us online instead of going out as much, why not take advantage of the opportunity? Virtual Workspace is big, shopping and delivery of entertainment as well as social networking

best of all you reach out of your local economy to the entire world.

2: Services, tons of things people would like to save money on right now, the service industry in all forms is wide open for anyone who invents a way to save money at traditional services people use that might not be as affordable right now.

3: Industries where you can Make BILLIONS... Farming innovation, Alternative energy particularly biodeisel, alternative health, resource aquisition, nano technology, Biotech, clean water and air innovation, environmental science in general, information distribution.

To name some off the top of my head

The for those who think really BIG... alternative housing, asteroid mining, space tourism, private space industry, robotics, artificial intelligence, bionics, genetic engineering.

I'm sorry but knowledge is increasing at a rate that is overwhelming

There is simply no lack of ability to innovate and make New Money now...

I for one am just restarting my life after a divorce and... it's not easy now,

But I have my hands in allot of things (probably too many)

I sell Bio Deisel as a sideline career

Do E-commerce ppc ads

I'm working on Virtual Office space for companies that can't afford the space to put employees

and i'm looking at Online movie distribution as Internet speeds take a step up again in coming years... (difficult sure) But I say, reach for the stars you should at least crash into the moon on the way.

But what I'm NOT doing, is being scared, i'm not concerned with wanting a job, or having it easy, I know I can't get rich that way.

The only thing I want from rich people, is the chance to talk to them, I have no resentment to those who do well, I admire them, all I ask for, is the chance to pick their brains so I can identify the traits they have that make them rich...

And this IMHO is the only real answer to this economy, to remain capitalist, to find ways to innovate and do new things that create more wealth, not redistribute and fight and peck what little there is, because if there was enough, we wouldn't be in debt, I view wealth distribution as futile...

I sit down and wonder what robotic, Nano engineered worms could do in terms of mining for gold and what an AI search engine would be like and who to help consumers get the best prices online and what kind of movies can be made for a low budget with modern digital software...

But I do not want, anyones money...

It just reminds me of that movie, with Dennis Leary

"Judgment Night"

Dennis is running through the ghetto attempting to catch Keifer Sutherland and others and a gang of kids stops him and he says to them

"You can Take my Money, but you can't TAKE my money"

and that is what socialism proposes for the rich, you CAN take the money of the rich if they make a deal with you and give it, but you can be sure, if the Government tries to TAKE the money of the rich, they will, send it over seas, bury it, tax fraud, ditch America entirely, invest outside of America and shelter it,

and realize , these people are very smart or most of them wouldn't be rich and the ones who inherited it, employ very smart people...

We are NOT going to be able to simply TAKE their money no matter what any one proposes or issues into law, they will, of course find a way to find it, worse, we have a standoff here, it can't turn out good.

But as Entrepreneurs we can take their money, the right way, with their giving it over, by providing good services and innovative things they wish to purchase or use

[edit on 26-10-2008 by mopusvindictus]

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Fromabove
Socialism is a doomed failure. I hope the people get that straight before they vote.

And who would you suggest they vote for? McCain the moderate socialist, or Obama the leftist socialist? This election is not about whether we'll be socialist or not, we are and have been socialist for decades. This election is about a minor difference in the degree of socialism we'll have. Some choice. Don't blame me, I wrote in Ron Paul.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 10:26 AM
As long as we the people can vote often on who controls the socialism then it could create equality for the standard and quality of life for all Americans.

I do not think our founding fathers envisioned a nation where some own multiple homes and fly around the world on personal jets, while others live in squander wondering if they can afford the medicine and food they need to live healthy.

There is enough wealth in this nation for everyone to have an education, medical care, a home and a job.

The stock market ha become a way for the wealthy and the government to drain profits off companies that YOU worked to earn. You work all day and they rake in a portion of what ever value you worked to make. They make us all think its normal for you to make less than the exec surfing the net in there offices or traveling around the world to useless meetings heh.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 10:57 AM

Originally posted by RRconservative
If you took everything from every American and spread it equally among everyone, in 10 years, the people that are rich now would be rich in 10 years and the poor people now, would still be poor in 10 years. Wealth distribution does nothing but make the rich work harder and the poor sit back and wait for handouts.

That would only be true if the rich were currently only rich because they worked hard and earned it.

But in a society where the rich beget rich and the poor take generations to become middle class and the average person has a greater chance of winning the lottery than to ever join the ranks of the wealthy, the idea that people are poor because they aren't somehow 'better/smarter/have better work ethics' than the rich do, is a crock.

The "american dream" is pretty much a lie that they feed the populous to keep them happy, to create the illusion of equality. When in truth, while you will most likely make more money than your parents did, rising from middle class to the upper twenty percentile is much like the odds of entering a casino and walking out a millionaire.

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