Iceland being enslaved!

Thanks a lot Illusionsaregrander, your post made a lot of sense to me. Weve obviously invested a lot in our viewpoints, I think after reading your post its obvious to me you are an Idealist in the best sense of the word. I also believe that the NWO crowd highlight important things people should know about, but you must admit the Alex Jones / Icke crew just take it to extremes and do more harm than good.

The trouble is I don’t believe principles applied thru idealism work at all. I just don’t trust humanity enough to see it thru, every example throughout history has ended up worse than the system it was set out to replace. I have zero confidence that anything better will ever come along, and zero confidence in us as a species.

But at the moment life is good for a lot of us, not great, but we live in the free-est societies in the world, we have enough to eat, we earn enough to get by, we are relatively unmolestered by government interference. And that’s fine by me.

I see nothing wrong with letting the rich guys get on with what they want, because they’ve always done that, and they know the best method of keeping themselves secure is stability. They arnt going to apply dictatorship, theve had hundreds of years to do that, why rock the boat? Hitler and Lenin achieved it within a few years, backed by the very people we’re talking about, so why have they never done it here?

Im sure world government will one day be a reality. Im sure we are moving to a purely electronic based monetary society. Its a scenario that could be abused, but probably wont be. It will just happen as our society now has 'just happened'. Stoking the fires of revolution is asking for trouble, out of the frying pan into the fire and all that.

Oh and just to clarify I never said I was a ‘back room dealer’, ive never been put in that position, but it happens and is no secret, even tho there are procedures in place to prevent it. The point was to show i was not oblivious to the principles of corruption as had been inferred.

Im tired.

Originally posted by Man_Versus_AntiMan
Im sure world government will one day be a reality. Im sure we are moving to a purely electronic based monetary society. Its a scenario that could be abused, but probably wont be.

And you call yourself a realist?

reply to post by eldard


Well thats a little picky! It will obviously be set out to the advantage of the powers that be sure, whether you class that as abuse or not is up to you. It will not be abused in the sense of applying totalitarian rule, because theres just no need.

[edit on 25-10-2008 by Man_Versus_AntiMan]

All of this brings to mind how similar we all are....US...Haiti.....Iceland?

Reminds me of the classic experiment and thesis where scientists place a loaf of bread and a male and female mouse in an aquarium. They breed, raise young and ......?

Who are the scientists?

Originally posted by Man_Versus_AntiMan
The trouble is I don’t believe principles applied thru idealism work at all. I just don’t trust humanity enough to see it thru, every example throughout history has ended up worse than the system it was set out to replace. I have zero confidence that anything better will ever come along, and zero confidence in us as a species.

That is where you are correct in calling me an "idealist." I DO have faith in the species. And, I do have faith that we will eventually figure out the flaw in the formula and learn to apply it correctly. However, other than that I think I am as realistic as it is possible for a human to be. No one who knows me personally accuses me of being overly optimistic.

You are correct that so far, every system set up to replace the abusive ones has failed to some degree. However, to say that there has been no improvement is factually incorrect. We are evolving. Things are better today in the countries that either overthrew the old monarchies, like the US, or benefited from the reaction of the monarchs in their own country to the overthrow of other monarchs in other countries. Like Britain.

However, I am NOT calling for revolution in the old sense of the word. I do NOT think that there is a need for a bloody fight against the "elite." We are not yet consolidated on the better way to live that would have to be in place to make such a sacrifice worth the price. However, I do see the possibility of a better way to live. And, in the meanwhile, I do see a need to check the growth of this disease of "I need MORE" that threatens to overwhelm humanity as a whole. They cannot do it without us. We dont need to slaughter them, we need to stop going along with the game as laid out by their rules. We need to stop agreeing that MORE is the answer.

Originally posted by Man_Versus_AntiMan
But at the moment life is good for a lot of us, not great, but we live in the free-est societies in the world, we have enough to eat, we earn enough to get by, we are relatively unmolestered by government interference. And that’s fine by me.

There are around 800,000,000 people in the world who live on the brink of starvation. Just living at subsistence levels. Now. We are also tearing through our resources at a rate that is breathtaking. Absolutely breathtakingly horrifying if someone cares to actually look at all the figures. Topsoil. Fish stocks. Forests. Metals. Fossil fuels. And, popular or not, we ARE experiencing climate change. Despite whether it is our doing or a natural cycle. It is happening. Now.

At the moment us, here, in the first world living pretty well and being relatively unmolested is not good enough. Thats how it was right before the stock markets crashed. It was pretty good. At least on the surface. People were seeing fair growth and doing ok. Then, the party came to an end. Could someone have seen it coming? A lot of people did. It wasnt just crazies predicting this, it was people like Ron Paul, and other less well known finance aficionados. I was first cued in by a mortgage broker who explained to me a year ago why this was going to be a nightmare. The problem with some of the "crazies" is that they call the game too early and then when it doesnt happen that week, everyone writes them off. It doesnt mean they are wrong. It means they are seeing further in the future than the average person wants to consider.

What our future holds is not a mystery. It is not unprecedented. It is a simple repeat of the same cycle that arises from people doing exactly what you suggest next.

Originally posted by Man_Versus_AntiMan
I see nothing wrong with letting the rich guys get on with what they want, because they’ve always done that, and they know the best method of keeping themselves secure is stability. They arnt going to apply dictatorship, theve had hundreds of years to do that, why rock the boat? Hitler and Lenin achieved it within a few years, backed by the very people we’re talking about, so why have they never done it here?

They have not had to. They have come up with a better, less dangerous to themselves, way. That does not mean dictatorship is off the table. It means they have not needed to take the risk inherent of going down that road to get what they want. We have the illusion of democracy. The illusion of freedom. The illusion of the American dream. So far, that has been enough. However, all dreams eventually come to an end. Economies based on "fluff" collapse, but the consequences are real. Particularly when you consider that we have more people and less resources than ever before.

Why should we not let the rich people do what they are doing and hope that their own self interest will save us all? Because it never has before. That greed, that insatiable need for "more" is not evil genius. It is a form of insanity. The insane elite do not make good choices, they make the choices that get them more until it literally costs them their lives. Over and over again throughout history you will see a pattern of an elite rising to power, and then bleeding their people and their environment nearly to death. Generally speaking, the people suffer until it becomes apparent that they will ALL die if it continues and they rise up and remove the elite. Or, an outside party comes in and takes advantage of the situation by promising a better life under THEIR rule if only the people back them. And it is a better life. Initially. But the madness continues, and over time, the cycle repeats. The bigger the system, the longer in terms of years it takes the pattern to play out, but it always plays out. They always overreach, and it always brings about their demise.

We have two choices. We can start to refuse, peacefully, to play the insane game of "endless more" in a finite system, and we can figure out a way to live cooperatively, which means NOT letting the insane run the world any longer. (And which does not mean it has to be communistic, cooperation is the human rule not the exception) OR we can just stand idly by and wait for a repeat of the expansion, collapse, revolution cycle. I am not advocating revolution. Not a physical one any way. I would loathe to see something like that happen. I cannot imagine any sane human wanting to see the kind of slaughter a revolution in todays first world would entail. I am advocating an evolution, where we stop the merry go round before the collapse that follows over-ambitious expansion.

Originally posted by Man_Versus_AntiMan
Its a scenario that could be abused, but probably wont be.

It is a scenario that WILL be abused because in the time when it is abused, the "elite" will have no other choice. They will have let the whole thing get so bad in their fevered pursuit of more, (just like they did with this economic collapse) that desperate times will call for desperate measures. Just like they have every other time in the past. The more poverty stricken and desperate your people get, the hungrier, the more fearful, the more force you must use to ensure they cannot turn against you.

I differ from many conspiracy theorists in that I do not think it has ever been their goal to have to impose dictatorship. Dictatorship has a well known and ugly end. I think they much preferred this peaceful "illusion of freedom" scenario where we go willingly to be fleeced. I think dictatorship is a last resort that they are willing to use if they have to, and I think their own insanity will drive us to the point where it is their only option. I think there are those in power who already see this writing on the wall, and know that the time will come when they have no choice.

Hammer Of The Gods

I hope I can be forgiven for what may well be reasonably considered an off-topic post, but I just wanted to send my love to my brothers and sisters in both Iceland and the UK.

I know there's a rather thick stack of controversies surrounding the financial relationships between both countries, but that's not where my heart is at right now.

I'm just hoping you'll all be okay.

Sorry if this seems a bit sappy, but there it is.

I don't believe we went in at all to liberate the Iraqi people from Saddam Hussein.

I think Saddam's crime was selling oil as an independent. Free Lancing outside the regulated markets. Like a drug dealer underselling the price of the others..and thereby creating an independent market and thus lowering the price...ie..profits. Saddam had to be stopped. The oil must be kept in the ground and released in only controlled amounts. It must also be kept out of the hands of independent competitors.

This is what happened in the Falkland Islands in the early 1980s. Oil was discovered off the Falklands. Argentina most certainly did not want the sheep. They did not really want the islands per se...except as a harbor and a staging ground for oil operations.
It was about a year after this war was over...that I heard on BBC that the British Government was taking bids for oil leases off the Falkland Islands.
What a shock to hear this on my shortwave radio. So that was what all the killing and dying was about.

In the phoney controlled media it was about a long standing claim to the islands by Argentina going back to the 1830s or so. If Argentina wanted the Islands they should have taken them while WW2 was still going on and the Brits were to busy to fight or challenge them. But no oil had been discovered back then. The problem was that Argentina would have sold the oil as an independent and also paid back their debts to the world banks..ie...IMF. Neither of these is allowed under this controlled system.
Both Oil and debt is how many nations are controlled...historically.

This is also what happened in Vietnam. Oil was found drilled and capped off under the guise of war. The wells and sources are known and put in storage...capped off. Furthermore ..to keep this nations oil in storage...a communist government was installed in order to keep competitors out and the oil in the ground. Communism insures that competitors will be kept out and nosey folks controlled. Communism also insures that no economic progress will take place unless brought in from outside sources...the perfect means of putting a country and its resources in storage and competitors out. IT will be the same with Taliban type radical governments.

Here we have an independent island nation...Iceland...who discovers oil off their shores. They cannot like Argentina be allowed to harvest this oil and sell it independently. Oil ...just like Blood Diamonds is a controlled substance. Someone will brook no competition here.
However ..an Invasion of Iceland will not go over well on the world stage as did the Falklands Islands war.
When this business is completed ...Iceland will need capital from outside sources to keep solvent. The price will be selling off their controlling interest in their oil areas.

The problem in the Oil Industry ...like diamonds is how to keep the supply controlled and the prices up. There never has been a shortage...it has all been man made and man manipulated...for lucre.
However..Oil ..likd Diamonds is a claim to soverign territory ...without borders..without governments. These groups/industries are higher than any government...they are a government unto themselves. They know no borders...they are true internationalists.

Some peoples have been warning of this trend since back about WW1.

Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by Majic


As someone from the UK i thank you for the sentiment i know you are impartial but a conciliatory mood between the peoples of Iceland and the UK would serve both peoples. There may be people out there that deserve some recrimination for whats happened in the Iceland banking collapse but the peoples of both countries would be best served by pulling together during a most troubling time affecting the whole world.

Well, ofcourse it is all very tragic but let's not forget that Iceland at the beginning of the previous century was one of Europe's poorest countries and 'rightfully'so, because they have nothing and still don't. A country does not get rich from exportingfish and home made sweaters. Still, the wealth of icelanders grew and grew and for decennia they lived a high standard.
Paid with what? The country hardly produces anything and anything other than fish needs to be imported. So where did these riches come from? Well, paid for by the rest of europe.
Sadly as it is, the standard of living in Iceland should not be higher then it is in say Pitcairn

reply to post by mr-lizard


yes Im agree with you
I think we all want to live in a world without wars
no more wars!innocents die everyday....
why why and why???money?
I hope it stops soon
Peace and love

reply to post by orangetom1999


Dont forget that Argentina was under a military government in 1980
The militaries send teenagers to the war...boys without training,without guns...they had guns out of service,old guns
They didnt have food or water,they had nothing
The young soldiers were terrified,but on the other hand the militaries were waiting at their homes or killing innocents in Argentina,they were the real enemies!!not UK
The worst enemy was at home .....not from outside

reply to post by tdogg1


Zimbabwe's problems are entirely down to Mugabe.

reply to post by orangetom1999


well,you know.thats my point of view
and you can be agree with me or not,its ok
is just my opinion

reply to post by 44soulslayer


Gordon Brown didn´t tell you about the other 12 banks from other countrys in UK wich owe much more money then the Icelandic banks.

He stamped Icelanders as a terrorists but he said nothing to these countrys were these banks are from. Why? Because they are from USA, Germany and many other countrys, and they still owe UK people that money, but the Icelandic nation is paying everything back.

[center][color=deeppink]Peace and Love to ya'll wherever you are ![/center]

Im from Iceland myself, and I just want to thank everyone who has showed us support in any way, thank you for your kindness

this is a message from the hearts og hell

Thank u all the people of the world that stand with us Icelanders in this god forsaken mess. lets hope this will get sorted out quick

we are a strong hardworking nation and WE WILL OVERCOME THIS

Bigtime corprate what ever will not make slaves out of us! i can asure u

Regards from Iceland

P.s u all should come here too shop now, its cheep hehe

i have been to Iceland few times and liked it alot. and been in UK as well. but what i am hearing and reading these days its sad for UK goverment and mr. Brown is acting stupid and not showing that he is a brait person. i will probebly stay away from UK products and servise in the nearest future and start baying Icelandic instead. (if possible)
anyway, it is a nice try mr.Brown , to kick a smallest nation in western world. (300.000 people) but as we all know, this is the fourth war with the Iceland and UK , and UK have lost them all, so i say to you icelanders, we will take your side in this as many others in the western world and the people of northern countries
hope Mr. Brown will be able to sleep after this try to rape a hole nation

I have been in Iceland for one year, for work: i've learned many unique facets of icelandic people, i won't never forget what they did for me: all i can say is that i find all this extremely sad, and that i hope all will get ok asap, God bless Iceland.
I'd like to share this, anyway:

Portraits of Icelandic terrorists exhibited

A photo exhibition “Icelandic Terrorists” was opened on Sunday 26th October in Smaralind, the biggest shopping centre in Iceland.
The exhibition consists of 79 photos in all of 98 alleged Icelandic “Terrorists” photographed by Thorkell Thorkelsson.
The purpose of the project is to show in a humours way the ridiculous nature of the act of the British Government of using the anti terrorism law against the people of Iceland. But by doing so the British Government has caused the Icelandic nation and the image of Iceland grave damage.
In addition to condemning the act of the British Government toward the Icelandic people, the project meant to give people a chance to release their anger in a positive way and at the same time help make something creative.

Source: IceNews

I will embed only one image because i believe that who is interested in looking at the exhibition should visit the website:
David Orn Johannesson
Former Future Employee of Kaupthing Bank
Weapons: Toy Gun and Key Board

Copyright © Torkell Torkelsson / Artemis-Photos

Photo Exhibition "Icelandic Terrorists". October 2008

reply to post by internos


WOW!!
thanks for sharing the pics
they dont look like terrorists!!!!LOL???????????????
Its a good way to show how they feel about it
It is a sad situation and they show their sense of humour....
needless to say,I hope they can find a solution to this prob

reply to post by internos


Thanks for pointing me to this photo gallery, Internos. I have just looked through the images, and they are really funny.
And I just can't resist posting this image:


Sebastian Gunnarsson
Future „Terrorist“
Weapon: A Snowball

It's winter here in Norway now. If Iceland and Norway cooperates, there is no way of telling how this will end. Yes, we are planning to take over the world. We will take our snowballs with us wherever we go... Beware...