how to: Control Low Level Masons

Originally posted by TRAVELS
And I couldn't resist this one from Adam Weischaft:

Who's he? You could quote Adam West and it would have the same authority. (perhaps you meant Adam Weishaupt?) Though it's perhaps more revealing what your sources may be, as the name "Adam Weischaft" only produces two Google results...

Think that neatly ties that one up...one more because I'm enjoying this, then I'll leave you with your consciences. This is from the book 'Occult Theocracy.'

Edith Starr Miller, or whatever her name was, was a quack. She is a most singular form of lies and disinformation, and that one book, with all its questionable content, has been quoted, repeated, exaggerated upon and otherwise blown out of proportion by more anti-Masons than any other anti-Masonic source that I'm aware of. (Even moreso than Nesta Webster's "World Revolution"... (not counting, of course, those anti-Masons who choose to misquote Pike and try to turn that against us...))

[edit on 11/15/2008 by JoshNorton]

Originally posted by tgidkp
i have studied, from the outside, the mormon temple ritual for about 12 years (i come from a mormon family, but do not practise myself). i became intrigued early on about the comparisons of the temple ritual to masonic rites. these comparisons are accurate, BTW.

from what i have learned through personal inspiration in the course of my study, i can say that there is without a doubt to me hidden information in the mormon temple ritual of the nature which i described before (control structure, etc). to me it is undeniable, although i cannot see any clear way to explain these things aside from the rituals themselves. this makes it very difficult to talk about.

you state that there is "no grand control structure"...as though you could possibly know! such a thing for fact. in my view, the control structure is so incredibly vast and convoluted that it is nearly incomprehensible.

Well, since you've introduced the topic of the parallels between Joseph Smith's ritual and the stuff he learned when he was a Mason, and since you assert that both are emblematical of control structures in use to this very day, can you offer any proof of Mormon's controlling the world?

Well blow me down with a feather...passing off evidence as coming from a 'quack..!' Is that the best you can do? You disappoint me...hardly surprising though...although I must admit I did mean Weischaupt, my mind was clearly elsewhere when I wrote Weischaft or whatever I put,...having a life and all I can't devote 100% of my attention to waking you up when the kids are doing the same to me...you see, admitting you're wrong is not an impossibility, try it...

Welcome to the thread tgidkp and mischievouself...finally someone with some intelligence feels they can make a contribution...not before time...

reply to post by TRAVELS


I am a little intrigued about where this is all going.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that 'Blue Lodge Masonry', IE the first three degrees, are being mislead or controlled.

Also, just to keep focused, let's assume the "controllers" have come from within Freemasonry and have worked their way up to the top levels.

To that end, I have a couple of questions and I promise to be open-minded about the responses.

1 - In my lodge there are basically three paths to take once you become a Master Mason. You can join York Rite (which leads to Knight Templar), Scottish Rite (Which leads to 32nd degree Prince of the Sublime Secret) and the Shriners.

Is there one of these appendant bodies that would be more likely than the others to provide a path for the "controllers" to work their way up?

2 - In Masonry's past, when the lodges were full of members, a Mason could have the opportunity to move through the 'chairs' or offices and become Worshipful Master of the lodge in about 12 years with diligence. In my lodge our numbers have fallen off and if a Mason dedicates himself diligently he could potentially become Master within 5-6 years of his initial appointment as Marshal.

Assuming you have to control the master in order to control the lodge, how would the "controllers" groom a potential candidate in such a short time period as 5 or 6 years in order to maintain the deception and control of the membership?

Thanks!

Originally posted by tgidkp
that was an incredibly rude and arrogant response...as though i have no understanding of what i am speaking on and just making the whole thing up.

Nice try, but it is you who is incredibly rude and arrogant. You presume that because someone doesn't see some hidden conspiracy in masonic ritual that I must be be to dumb to see it and really its all there.

You cannot create a non-falsifiable conspiracy theory and not have it pointed out, especially when you use the "oh, well your just too dumb to see it" line to explain why no one else sees it.

Originally posted by tgidkp
it is unwise to make such assumptions about people. particularly when not in face-to-face conversation.

Then I recommend you listen to your own advice and stop doing that.

Originally posted by tgidkp
i have studied, from the outside, the mormon temple ritual for about 12 years (i come from a mormon family, but do not practise myself). i became intrigued early on about the comparisons of the temple ritual to masonic rites. these comparisons are accurate, BTW.

No, they are not accurate. Jospeh Smith did indeed take large parts of the mormon temple ritual from masonic ritual, but these have been widely changed by the church as time progressed. I highly recommend you get a updated expose of the ritual.

Originally posted by tgidkp
from what i have learned through personal inspiration in the course of my study, i can say that there is without a doubt to me hidden information in the mormon temple ritual of the nature which i described before (control structure, etc). to me it is undeniable, although i cannot see any clear way to explain these things aside from the rituals themselves. this makes it very difficult to talk about.

And from years of studying masonic ritual, I can say that without a doubt to me there is no "hidden information" about some control structure conspiracy.

Originally posted by tgidkp
you state that there is "no grand control structure"...as though you could possibly know! such a thing for fact. in my view, the control structure is so incredibly vast and convoluted that it is nearly incomprehensible.

I love this. You state that there is some "grand control structure" even though you could never possibly know such a thing for a fact. In fact, you've made up a non-falsifiable theory where everyone who disagrees is just too dumb to see it. The simplest explanation is usually the most probable: and the most probable is that your grand conspiracy does not exist.

Originally posted by tgidkp
you are very flippant about the "function of knowledge". as though these rituals are just yer ordinary run-of-the-mill classroom type knowledge. no. they are not. they are a highly specialized form of communication, and ought to be viewed as such.

I think you clearly have some reading comprehension issues, because stating that understanding ritual takes a life time doesn't fit the definition of "flippant" - I think you must be having a imaginary argument with yourself. Masonic rituals are pretty but they are not unique, they were written by normal men - smart men - but normal.

Originally posted by tgidkp
perhaps the reason none of the self-professed experts are getting it is because they are all as dismissive of it as you seem to be.

You really are making this up as you go along. I have never claimed to be a expert but you certainly have. But perhaps you are "getting it" because you want to see something that isn't really there. The power of suggestion is very strong.

Originally posted by tgidkp
simply because you do not understand a thing does not mean that it, in fact, does not exist. nothing wrong with saying "i dont know."

Simply because you desperately want to see something does not mean that it, in fact, does exist. Nothing wrong with admitting that you just don't know.

Originally posted by tgidkp
and try not to be so rude, huh?

No problem. Your the one being rude. You should take your own advice.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by LowLevelMason]

reply to post by TRAVELS


Actually its because your "research" is really a copy and paste job from conspiracy websites and I've seen all the quotes before, and NO ONE can ever trace them back to their source. In some cases they are true but they end up being taken completely out of context: references to being controlled by "other groups" are not the Illuminati but quotes taken from references to political palace intrigue events.

Its more a testament of you needing to find things that agree with your worldview than anything else.

There are no official accounts. There is no documented evidence. Its the same old timeless charade of people who demonstrably have no idea about freemasonry proclaiming that they know what is "really" going on while members are somehow clueless to it all. The whole "your all sleeping sheeple if you don't agree with me and I hold special knowledge about what really goes on" isn't impressive, people try it every day on this board.

By the way, calling people deluded and other names because they don't agree with you just makes your case look even more ridiculous than it already is.

reply to post by LowLevelMason


good lord! this is your response and you tell me that 'I' am being rude?! at least i dont copy and paste and pick apart and mock every last goddamned thing that you write. i have no problem having a discussion, but i have never read something more confrontational on all of ATS. no wonder you were in the middle of a fight when i entered the thread last night.

i have no problem having a discussion, but this is going nowhere.

reply to post by tgidkp


You can continue to try to project your anger and rage at me but its not going to work. If you cannot handle the points, then simply do not respond. Getting angry and pulling out all that rage at me isn't going to change anything. Please calm down. Its just a message board, its not worth it for you to get so enraged.

reply to post by tgidkp


He breaks the post apart to address each of your points.
If you were speaking with him, he'd be able to address each point as you brought them up.
However, since this is a web forum, you make a post containing multiple points and he replies to them each separately.
If you have a problem with that, then that's yours. You're getting frustrated over him contradicting you, and addressing your points. Not a good way to hold a discussion.

No, he makes largely-irrelevant generalisations about the stuff that helps his case and omits the stuff that supports ours...pretty much like a politician does when he tries to 'spin' reality, in fact the more i hear of the guy the more I'm convinced he's complicit with the grand plan in question, otherwise why be so defensive when we are providing the evidence he asks for..? 32nd degree weren't you LLM? Did someone just say something about a 'sublime secret'? Curiouser and curiouser.

Line break to aid LLM in his bizarre quoting ritual...

Oh yeah did you look into that whole Windsor/Uranium thing? Found out the US is still under British rule yet? Don't remember your answer to those little anomalies...Anyway back on track, Emsed I think five or six years would be plenty of time to groom somebody...if the price was right it might take no more than a second; if we were dealing with such an infiltration the stakes would be high, so logically the 'backhanders' would have to reflect that, in whatever form they come...and they say every man has his price..!

Copy and pasted?! Took me ages to write that..! You can't copy and paste your own handwriting...I'd probably be insulted if I cared enough

Just make them feel 'honoured.' They'll want to feel sufficiently classy that they can look down on the working class, but hey! The good ones will not harm anyone.
Once you have them in the bind of having a bit of class position to loose, they will do what you want,

As I have forseen,

Pretty Sith Prophetic.

Originally posted by LowLevelMason
reply to post by TRAVELS

 

Actually its because your "research" is really a copy and paste job from conspiracy websites and I've seen all the quotes before, and NO ONE can ever trace them back to their source. In some cases they are true but they end up being taken completely out of context: references to being controlled by "other groups" are not the Illuminati but quotes taken from references to political palace intrigue events.

Woah you're right, quoting is fun..

Er, back up a sec...so 'political palace intrigue events' can manipulate the masons then? I don't recall us talking about the illuminati, we were discussing whether or not the masons could be controlled in principle...Haven't you just admitted what you've been so vehemently denying?

[edit on 15-11-2008 by TRAVELS]

Originally posted by TRAVELS
No, he makes largely-irrelevant generalisations about the stuff that helps his case and omits the stuff that supports ours...pretty much like a politician does when he tries to 'spin' reality, in fact the more i hear of the guy the more I'm convinced he's complicit with the grand plan in question, otherwise why be so defensive when we are providing the evidence he asks for..? 32nd degree weren't you LLM? Did someone just say something about a 'sublime secret'? Curiouser and curiouser.

Wrong, but nice try. You see that is the point of quoting people like you who try to manipulate and distort through deliberate red herrings misinformation. This way there can be no way to do anything but respond directly to what you say, and there can be no generalizing.

Originally posted by TRAVELS
Oh yeah did you look into that whole Windsor/Uranium thing? Found out the US is still under British rule yet? Don't remember your answer to those little anomalies...Anyway back on track, Emsed I think five or six years would be plenty of time to groom somebody...if the price was right it might take no more than a second; if we were dealing with such an infiltration the stakes would be high, so logically the 'backhanders' would have to reflect that, in whatever form they come...and they say every man has his price..!

Your belief in conspiracy fantasy is not the subject of the thread, which is "how to: Control Low Level Masons" - and back on topic, you miss the point that in order to maintain control you would have to groom every single officer of every single lodge and grand lodge in the entire world. With that many people involved in your conspiracy there is absolutely no way for it to be based in reality: the more people that are involved, the higher chance of being exposed. Freemasonry is not centralized enough to do this.

You'd also have to explain how we are somehow bribing so many people and yet no one can find any evidence of the money trail. With all the books open, exactly how is this happening?

Originally posted by TRAVELS
Er, back up a sec...so 'political palace intrigue events' can manipulate the masons then? I don't recall us talking about the illuminati, we were discussing whether or not the masons could be controlled in principle...Haven't you just admitted what you've been so vehemently denying?

You are either being willfully ignorant or your attempt to manipulate is about to fail, again. The vast majority of conspiracy quotes are 95% just made up, the 5% that are real are not referring to the Illuminati, Freemasons, or any other group that you believe is trying to take over the world. They are referring to specific historical events in that time that involved things like palace intrigue and nothing to do with the inferred nefarious group.

Zeitgiest, and people like you, employ this technique all the time. Take for example this quote that conspiracy theorists love to use that appears in Zeitgiest, which was debunked by conspiracy science in the earlier link I provided:

"There is something behind the throne greater than the king himself."
- Sir William Pitt, House of Lords 1770

This one was kind of difficult to track down, but I finally did find it. The quote in full is "A long train of these practices has at length unwillingly convinced me that there is something behind the throne, greater than the throne itself." What William Pitt was talking about, was a scandal of sorts, how King George III was under too much influence from Lord Bute, and how it seemed as though the King didn't care about what the French were saying. The speech this quote came from was made in 1770, six years after the King had already stopped seeing Lord Bute, and Pitt knew this. The purpose of the statement was to imply the King was weak; it was nothing more than an insult[1].

The Quarterly by Close, William - Published 1859 - Page 471

So the quote isn't referring to some sinister outside conspiracy group, but simple political palace intrigue. This method of taking quotes out of historical context is used all the time by people who don't have any evidence. This is not a quote you have used, but my point is that this type of out of context source quoting is probably behind the quotes you have found that are not made up and actually legitimate.

Nice try to be manipulative though.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by LowLevelMason]

reply to post by redled


It is too bad that the working class makes up large portions of freemasonry then, eh? There goes that theory.

Originally posted by LowLevelMason

You'd also have to explain how we are somehow bribing so many people and yet no one can find any evidence of the money trail. With all the books open, exactly how is this happening?

...We?...

reply to post by TRAVELS


Please see:

Editorial use of we - is talked about in your grammar school writing courses. I didn't keep any textbooks from grammar school, but if you REALLY don't get it I suggest you go buy one.

You bribe as many people as you need to man...

I've had a change of heart about you actually, it can't be easy getting to 32nd degree and not being let in on the secret...bet you're itching eh? I'd be gutted...I'll be more sympathetic from now on...

Look it's been lovely talking to you all but I've got other crusades to wage, all peaceful mind...so to summarise yeah I think it's possible to manipulate the masons, especially with the level of ignorance I've witnessed here. Most possible. Might even try it myself

In all seriousness I hope I'm wrong I really do, but my truth is that I'm not, malheureusement...Another truth is that if people continue to voice concerns about 'wild conspiracies' it would actually make it more difficult for the conspirators, should it be true...if we stopped questioning everything then we deserve to be enslaved...so here's to all the thinkers

Originally posted by TRAVELS
You bribe as many people as you need to man...

If your're going to make such baseless accusations that masons are bribing people, you'll need to provide some evidence or at least explain how a fraternity registered as a not-for-profit and thus with 100% open books could do such a thing and then have those very same books pass the auditing process.

Originally posted by TRAVELS
I've had a change of heart about you actually, it can't be easy getting to 32nd degree and not being let in on the secret...bet you're itching eh? I'd be gutted...I'll be more sympathetic from now on...

Unfortunately you are still having changes of heart based on things that are not real. The evidence shows that it is quite easy to get to 32nd degree, because the reality is that its not about degrees - something people like you completely ignore.

I'll tell you the biggest secret: There is none.

Originally posted by TRAVELS
Look it's been lovely talking to you all but I've got other crusades to wage, all peaceful mind...so to summarise yeah I think it's possible to manipulate the masons, especially with the level of ignorance I've witnessed here. Most possible. Might even try it myself

Hopefully you will wage crusades on other things where you actually have some idea what you're talking about, otherwise the colossal display of not knowing what you are talking about that you've put on is likely to get you no where, just as it has here. You have provided no evidence for your baseless claims, and the claims you have made have been debunked.

Originally posted by TRAVELS
In all seriousness I hope I'm wrong I really do, but my truth is that I'm not, malheureusement...Another truth is that if people continue to voice concerns about 'wild conspiracies' it would actually make it more difficult for the conspirators, should it be true...if we stopped questioning everything then we deserve to be enslaved...so here's to all the thinkers

No worries, because the evidence shows that you are quite wrong. If you stopped throwing out baseless and wild accusations at fraternities then perhaps you could focus on the actual groups that are up to no good in the world.

'Debunked'? You haven't debunked anything. You just keep saying 'no that's not true'...takes a little more evidence to debunk, and you have provided none, but then again that's the masonic way I suppose...

Good luck with your plans anyway. They've already failed, because nothing will ever supress the human spirit...something you guys should have considered a a loooooong time ago...but you enjoy your privilages while we allow you to have them. Then you'd better get used to bread and water.

Originally posted by TRAVELS
Well blow me down with a feather...passing off evidence as coming from a 'quack..!' Is that the best you can do?

It's been better done by other...

freemasonry.bcy.ca...
Occult Theocrasy relies heavily on the published works of self-described 33° freemason, Domenico Margiotta; the hoaxers Dr. Karl Hacks and Leo Taxil and their creations, Diana Vaughan and Dr. Bataille;3. the imaginary Miss. Vaughan’s promoter, Adriano Lemmi; anti-mason, Samuel Paul Rosen (1840-1907), theosophist, Alice Bailey (1880-1949); Taxil’s supporter, Clarin de la Rive; antisemite, Nesta H. Webster and the once anonymous "Inquire Within".4.
In the balance, Miller brought nothing new to the mythology of the secret societies, although her anti-masonic and anti-Mormon rhetoric continues to be quoted in fundamentalist Christian literature.

My main contention is that she continued to pass off the Taxil hoax as true some 30+ years after Taxil himself admitted the hoax.

Here are specific issues with Occult Theocracy

[edit on 11/17/2008 by JoshNorton]