Is it un-American to choose NOT to vote?

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posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 07:41 PM
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I beg to differ about not having the right to complain if you don't vote. Fact is, we are only shown Democrat vs. Republican. What this amounts to is most don't get to know what Independents have to say, so they choose the lesser of two evils. I refuse to vote until they bring Independents into the debates. Wasn't it Perot who took a pretty large percent when he ran against Bush and Dukakis? Since then Independents have been "ghosted". Not voting is voting. If everyone voted Independent, I would bet $1,000,000 that a jackass or elephant would win no matter what.




posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 07:41 PM
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Yes, it is unAmerican to not vote.

There is no such thing as protesting by not voting.

Not voting is saying "everyone decide for me". THAT is unAmerican.

If you do not know enough about each canidate to vote, then fix it. If you dont like your choices, too bad for now. Do what you can to fix it by the next presidential race. If it doesnt work then, keep trying.

Voting, and doing something about the crap you find wrong is the epitome of being an American.

So, yes, sitting on your butt and doing nothing is unAmerican.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by mrsdudara
 


What about the Americans that truly think they have seen enough evidence to believe the election process is corrupted?


So, yes, sitting on your butt and doing nothing is unAmerican.


Also, it's not fair to assume someone who doesn't vote is also doing nothing else...

[edit on 22-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 



Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
What about the Americans that truly think they have seen enough evidence to believe the election process is corrupted?


If an American knows with out a doubt that there is voting fraud taking place, they should report it, call the news crews, papers, etc. But they should still vote.



Also, it's not fair to assume someone who doesn't vote is also doing nothing else...



Im sorry if that came off wrong. Let me make myself more clear. Not voting is unAmerican. Not voting because you think the system is broke, and not doing anything to fix what you saw, is unAmerican.

I am not assuming anything.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by mrsdudara
 


America is a nation of apathy.

But I agree, if someone feels the system is corrupt they should do something about it. Fighting injustice and making society better is the moral and civic duty of our Nation.


If an American knows with out a doubt that there is voting fraud taking place, they should report it, call the news crews, papers, etc. But they should still vote.


I'm going to admit that didn't make sense to me.

Why at that point should they still vote?

What I really mean is, at that point, why would not voting still be 'un-American'?

[edit on 22-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 08:33 PM
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here's the way i see it. if you choose to not vote for president that is your choice and you are not un american for it. However... if you don't vote for president you really have no grounds to bitch if you don't like the person elected or his/her policies. if you don't like mccain or obama vote for a 3rd party canidate or write someone in. atleast your vote will have been counted.

If you vote for congress members and you don't like them then bitch away.

if you completely don't vote at all then you shouldn't bitch about anything that happens until the next election. you had your chance to influence the elections and you choose not to give your say.

Bottom line you are not unamerican if you don't vote you just don't have the right to bitch afterwards.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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Here's how to answer both questions. What I suggest is that if you are displeased, you go to the polls and write in "No One" or "None". At least you participated, and have the right to complain.

On "un-American", the term simply means that which is not for, with, or in support of America. Socialism is un-American for example because it is against free enterprise. Do we know any candidate for president who is a socialist, that is, who wants to "spread the wealth around?"



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 08:37 PM
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Probably already heard this already, but if you don't vote dont compain.

Plain and simple, it's your right, use it or lose it.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 08:38 PM
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What is American, or un-American?!? As we are, so we will be.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by ADVISOR
 




Probably already heard this already, but if you don't vote dont compain.



Problem with that is that we will never be able to distinguish between who voted and who didn't and everybody will still be complaining.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 

well i guess here on ATS in that situation we will be on the honor system then.... none of us would knowing lie to another member of ATS would we?

(i'm not accusing you or anyone of lying BTW!)



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


Yes, true. How ever they know if they have or not, and if you see some one in person, or if they honestly answer with a no, then we can always say. You should have voted.

They reply, it wouldn't matter any ways. Look at them and say, you will never know will you.

No vote no voice, that is just me though, and my opinion.

It used to be only land owners could vote, may be it should go back to that. Ensure those critical votes get in.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 09:15 PM
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I say complain all you want. If you are one of those that think it doesn't matter who you vote in and that you are screwed either way..then complain...you have every right to. A vote isn't justification to have disagreements with your government.

If you pay taxes....you HAVE EVERY RIGHT to b***H all you want about anything the government does.

Vote or no vote.

Just my opinion.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by Replikant
 


Thats a better choice. There are some who would say voting for someone who can not win is a wasted vote. I see it as a way to make a statement that you are not satisfied with the choices. I'm at the point where I think I'll end up voting for someone who may not be on the ballot this time.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


They should still vote, because their vote could still be counted. They could fix the problem.

Another point....a lot of people died so you could stand up and have a say. A lot of women were tortured and died so that women could stand up and have a say. Same goes for blacks. Obviously your opinion, your vote matters. Even if you have to choose between two turd heads like these. Your vote matters so much, that other people before you, laid their lives down. Dude! That is cool. Dont waste a perfectly good voice.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by mrsdudara
Another point....a lot of people died so you could stand up and have a say..


Right but I was specifically speaking in the context of the Americans that believe the voting process is corrupt aka they don't really "have a say", and there are plenty that feel this way.

The people that fought for it, and even died for it, as you are bringing up, were not fighting for a broken one. I am of course trying to play devil's advocate here. Still this isn't exclusive to some small group of people. This mentality is prevalent as far as I can tell..

[edit on 22-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
Right but I was specifically speaking in the context of the Americans that believe the voting process is corrupt aka they don't really "have a say", and there are plenty that feel this way.


I think I understand what you are saying. A lot of poeple feel this way. The way the system is set up is very complex. In a crazy way though it makes sense. My vote does not get counted the way other votes on other issues gets counted. We have delegates. So come voting day, we all cast our votes. Then our delegates cast votes that are supposed to reflect what we in the state have decided. Those are the votes that get counted. That does not mean your vote does not get counted. They just get counted differently.

Is that what you were talking about?



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 10:18 PM
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Many interesting views here. I do think that not voting in America today is Un-American. However, I disagree with those who say that if a person doesn't vote that they shouldn't complain about the way the winner does things. As Americans, we can and should complain whenever we don't like the way things are run. We should also take action in conjunction with the complaints via protesting, and through elections.
Today, in most cases, there are more than just the two main parties who have candidates for president. Choose the one that more closely resembles your own believes. It shouldn't be expected that any one candidate will be perfect. If for some reason, it were down to the two main candidates, right now, they both hold opposing views, so one should be closer than the other, in the views of the individual voter.
If for some reason there were only the two major candidates and a person didn't agree at all with either, this is what I suggest: Vote for the candidate that is going to run the ship aground quickest. My reason for this is, that things don't get fixed until they're broken. You can elect someone who will drag out the hard times, or someone who till break it completely then people will start taking notice and putting importance where it belongs and things can start getting done right. Again, this scenario is only if there are no candidates that even slightly resemble your views/values.
In conclusion, not voting IS un-American, and no matter what, b*tch all you want.

edit: this doesn't account for the electoral system. I personally think that is a concept that is no longer needed.

[edit on 22-10-2008 by Wolf321]



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by mrsdudara
 


I was speaking on behalf, so I was not speaking of any one thing specifically.

In support of this idea I hear:

1.) Indeed the Electoral College, which means we are indirectly voting.
2.) Past record of Presidents winning the election but losing popular vote.
3.) Past records of suspected voting fraud.
4.) The fact that only two parties have a chance. *If Cynthia Mckinney wins the popular vote, would she win the Electoral College vote? I think not*

And then of course there is the Shadow Government conspiracy, but I will leave that out for the sake of a more tangible discussion.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by elevatedone
 





That being said, those who don't vote shouldn't complain about politics or our politicians.


Ridiculous nonsense...When Obama or Mcain becomes president and start implementing either their socialist or fascist policies it will be PEOPLE THAT VOTED FOR THESE KNUCKLEHEADS that shouldn't complain. Since I'm not voting for either one, and writing-in my candidate; it will be people like ME that will have the pleasure of telling PEOPLE like you, "I TOLD YOU SO!" Even those who choose not to vote will have the HIGHER moral ground to those that foolishly voted for these two.

So it is to the contrary, it will be people like me and those that choose not to vote out of disgust for either of these shysters that will have more right to complain about the future-mess they will wrought on this nation and its people.




[edit on 22-10-2008 by Gateway]





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