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What's the obsession with poor-bashing here?

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posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 06:01 AM

Originally posted by Zepherian
Travel a bit, get around and wake up to the world around me, you seem to have a worldview which is born more out of CNN and BBC, and dare I say ego, than actual experience.

No actually you would not see CNN or the BBC advertising those facts, they are so far from politically incorrect they aren't spoken about.

And I have traveled, though of course I have no desire to visit third world hell-holes in Africa (will stick to europe and the middle east when money permits). However my sister has traveled to India several times and she can certainly confirms the statement.

If one needs first hand experience before they can share an opinion, please list the places YOU have traveled too. Every been to sub-saharan Africa? Or do you get your opinions from Chris Rock interviews?

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 07:11 AM
reply to post by Sonya610

Let's just say I've "been around"

Your fear of poverty is telling in your travel choices, and more telling of your mindset than any of your posts. I urge you to change your mindset, for your own good, not just the good of humanity in general, you're locked in a closed frame of mind which is quite sad tbh.

And never forget that a lot of the poor in this world are poor because the rich countries negative influence, via the world bank and abuse credit practices as well as what can only be described as wide spectrum strip mining, keep them in that state. Never forget the swiss bank socialism that is so rampant throughout africa for example, never forget the corporate deflorestation of amazonia, never forget the minefields and depleted uranium.

Never forget that it is we in the "developed" world that hold the biggest share of blame, not at an individual but at a cultural and political level.

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 07:35 AM

Originally posted by Zepherian
Your fear of poverty is telling in your travel choices

Of course! I only wish to travel to places where I can eat the food without worrying about being poisoned or getting parasites, where the culture and laws permit a lone foreign female traveler to walk the streets in safety, where I won't see puppies slaughtered in outdoor markets for food, and where I won't worry about being ripped off by every local that sees a caucasian traveler as an "easy target".

You are implying that I cannot judge the living conditions in other places because I have not been there, yet it seems you are judging. Based on what? You cannot imply i am ignorant because I choose not to visit those places while hold yourself to a different standard.

You have "been around" and you seem to know all about the true living conditions in third world countries. Again, what countries have you been to? What trips gave you this personal knowledge? Hey if you have been to so many you can't list them all thats okay, just name 3 or 4.

[edit on 24-10-2008 by Sonya610]

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 07:54 AM
reply to post by Sonya610

No, I will not list anything. "Been around" is all you're going to get. Whether you take my word or not is your choice.

But do realise I am portuguese, and we have a huge emigrant community, everywhere from the USA to Venezuela, from England, Luxembourg, France to South Africa and Australia. Do realise we have close political and commercial ties to former colonies, namely Brazil, Angola, Mozambique, Guinea Bissau, Cape Verde, East Timor, Goa (and a couple of adjacent regions) and Saint Tomé and Prince. And do realise we have extended families and are not as disconnected from family as anglo-saxonic and germanic cultures. Do realise we know the world because of our unique historical perspective of rediscovering it after the middle ages. Connect the dots.

Edit: and do realise I am typing all this in a second language, forgot to mention that.

[edit on 24-10-2008 by Zepherian]

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 08:17 AM
I can remember working the night shift at the Hospital and I was reassigned to another floor. A Nurse was sitting there with a book reading it then she picked up the phone and made a call which of course I heard the conversation because I was sitting right next to her.

First let me tell you Hospitals have people that go to other Countries and look for people to come over here and work. The people they get are given free airfare, housing area and all education PAID for and the deal is the person just has to work for said Hospital at full pay for five years then they are free to go wherever they choose. Many stayed and sent money home and/or bring family here.

Now, back to what I started with. This Nurse had called a family member whom she sent money to come over here and was reading from this book on where to go and how to get everything free from this government because they were foreigner's. She showed me the book and I was shocked to say the least.

I also can't tell you how many people I know that came from Africa alone that weren't even of age, there parents send then as young teenages to a family member and put the wrong age on passports to get them here and our governments doesn't do a thing. Then these people start a free business taught to them by our government if needed and then these people milk we the people.... for example when they sell us there pizza.

As we all know there are people that will do everything they can to get/take this from our own people that need the money.

I have a neighbor women that gets up at 2 in the morning to stat her first job, she doesn't have a car and has to walk a few blocks to catch a ride. When she finishes that job she gets dropped off where she was picked up and then has to walk several blocks with a bad back and knee's to her next job. This women has four teenagers.... her husband left years ago for another younger women and doesn't send support and Domestic Relations doesn't do crap to get her the money he owns for those four children.

My concern is they have not had Electric for three months because she had a Hospital stay because she couldn't breathe and she didn't get paid while out from her minimum paying jobs. They don't have TV or phone service. They are in an apartment that the landlord thinks mildew is black caulking and she can't do anything because the landlord has threatened to raise her rent or not renew her lease if she tries to do anything about it.

This is one of our own American citizens who is truly struggling to survive and raise her kids.

I believe there is always a reason for everything even if we don't understand. When I was moving I could move anywhere I chose to.... but I saw this big old house and fell in love with it. This is a very poor neighborhood and not completely safe but I felt this is where I was to be. I see how the people around me are struggling to just have food on there tables for there kids and I do whatever I can whenever I can. I'm known as Grandma and all the kids come to my house and I do all I can for them.

As a race of people we have to observe who is taking advantage and who really needs help and we need to help them ourselves in our own way for if there is one thing I do know is this....when your time comes the Creator's know who has been naughty and who has been nice and your next soul tour will be determined by what you do on this Planet.

Sorry for this being so long.

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 09:00 AM
It's all about choices and those choices are not for anyone else to judge. There are no victims in this society period there are only choices. If people would understand the power they truly hold none of this would be an issue (meaning nothing that is typically discussed on this entire site would be an issue). People have forgotten their own power. For those of you that do not believe in energy and the ability YOU have to manifest your own reality I don't know what to say except that the ability IS there and the proof is in the fact that when one thinks they are a victim they are in fact creating that and therefore becoming the victim over and over again proving it to themselves every step of the way but not wanting to realize it and take responsibility or actions to change it.

I'm not saying it is easy on this planet to turn that victim role around. "They" make it very difficult but it can be done. I do it for my own life everyday.......

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Zepherian
and do realise I am typing all this in a second language, forgot to mention that.

Yes well I will agree to disgree. By the way your English is flawless, I had no clue it was not your native language.

Originally posted by observe50I also can't tell you how many people I know that came from Africa alone that weren't even of age, there parents send then as young teenages to a family member and put the wrong age on passports to get them here and our governments doesn't do a thing.

Yeah it is crazy. I read somewhere that it costs an average of $250,000 to educate and settle the average Somali immigrant to the U.S. They are pulling some of these people out of refugee camps.

One can only imagine what $250,000 would do to improve and develop a small village in Africa, but apparently our government doesn't care about that, they prefer to bring them to the states where many will live off of welfare and have a new baby every year.

They need classes on how to use a toilet, unlock a door, cook food etc... I remember reading an article about one family that locked themselves in their apartment for FOUR days because they could not figure out how to unlock the door.

In some areas around here there are frequent apartment fires that tear through multiple units when these people start using outdoor grills inside their apartments for cooking or heat. It is crazy.

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 09:19 AM
They may be poor and may not have much of anything ...but they at least are not as much a slave to the system as we all are ..
They (TPTB or System) have us all by the you know what .Through our working and taking our money ..

Maybe some people are just jelious of that fact ..

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 12:18 PM
azurite, I have to disagree with you.

A person could do everything right, work hard, be giving, share, help others and nothing goes there way and they struggle from one day to the next.... then you could have someone that does absolutely nothing and they end up with it all.

Look at the way things are going in this time of our history. Let's say you are working and bringing in lots of money then everything you had just went down the tubes....job and all. You check out unemployment on your computer and the computer screws up and you can't get through. Next you call and you sit on hold forever then lets say you go to the office and they say it will take weeks for your first check. Okay, tell me if you lost everything in the market how are you going to pay your bills that are due and feed your family.

Okay now you look for a job and you find there is nothing out there that pays nothing but minimum wage and the job is located to far you can't afford the gas to get there.

This is just some examples of falling off the latter and hurling downward and this can happen to anyone at anytime.... so I hope you can see that there are times you can do everything right and nothing could go well for you.

I believe you need to open your heart for one day you may need someone's help and they will tell you exactly what you are saying then you might stop to think you should have thought things out just a little bit better.

What I am writing I don't mean in a nasty way I hope you can see this.

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:48 PM
reply to post by observe50

I did not take this as nasty at all. I do see where you are coming from and this is one of those topics that is hard to talk about. Manifesting one's own reality is a bit complicated in the distorted system we are in i will agree with that and it can be tricky for reasons i can't really go into here b/c they are to complicated to explain. but to keep it simple....being a good person vs a "bad" person has nothing to do with any of this. doing everything "right" has nothing to do with this. it is all about where you are focusing your consciousness. if a person is born into a rich family they have a bit of an easier time with money b/c they are in a space of constantly expecting it to be there and quess what it is b/c they believe it to be that way. it does not matter if they are aware of what they are manifesting or not. now on the other had they may have a terrible time with relationships b/c they may believe that they are not worthy of love etc.

a person born into a poor family is going to have the belief that money is hard to make that maybe they will always be poor no matter what they do and guess what that is what happens. i truly believe that a poor individual (with this mindset) could win the lottery and end up broke the next year b/c they have not yet let go of that belief. on the other hand you see people pull themselves out of these situations as well and thats b/c somewhere along the way they believed it was possible and literally thought their way out of it.

If someone all the sudden loses a job and cant find another etc. and things spiral downhill form there that is also something that person is responsible for all on their own. they somehow manifested that into their world. again this is hard to talk about b/c we are talking about energy here, something most people can't see and does not feel tangible to most. I have personally thought/felt/manifested my way into many situations that most of the people around me did not believe would be possible. i have countless examples of this in my own personal life from selling a house for a profit when my realtor thought i was crazy, to bringing a perfect partner into my life two weeks after a wrote a list out and intentionally manifested what i wanted in him, to even smaller simple day day things. i wanted to find a way to get my 401k money out and into my pocket

[edit on 24-10-2008 by azurite]

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:50 PM
reply to post by observe50

b/c of the economy the way that it is and all of a sudden the newspaper i work for is being sold. everyone is in panic and scared of what will happen but i know this will all work out for the best for me and now i can take out my 401k as soon as the sell is complete. anyway i could go on and on.

i hope this cleared up my point of view.

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:54 PM

Originally posted by LostNemesis
Just lately I've started to see this trend on ATS about people who will put down the poor. Calling the poor "life long bums", "unambitious", and many other names that I will NOT repeat here.

It's bothering me now, and I cannot understand why. If you look at people, as a whole, you will see that most of us are more similar than different.

This goes for people all over the world. Usually people have very similar interests in life. Many include coming together with other people.. But above all, taking care of their own families. And valuing the time they are able to have with others.

Is it worth name-calling because someone else decided they have different ambitions in life? Like spending more time with family, and enjoying life as they know how, instead of obsessing over this currency that is printed in massive amounts to keep us in line?

Even for the people who CHOOSE to remain poor, by not surrendering their life to some corporate entity... are some only jealous because they felt like they had no choice to do just that themselves?

"Poor-Bashing" is nothing new. In a monetary system, the less off will always be bashed, mistreated, and abused.

The monetary system is built upon shame, reward, and punishment. Those who can gain an immense amount of wealth are rewarded psychologically by the belief that their monetary gains and acquisition of material possessions defines their worth and puts their value above those who have less than them. Those who can't gain the same amount of wealth are punished and forced into shame over the belief that they have some how failed because they couldn't meet the standards of success that have been set in place for them.

The shame, reward, and punishment aspect of the monetary system motivates the majority of people to work in order to gain wealth and not be shamed by "poorness". Everyone thinks that if they work hard enough then they can escape the shame and punishment of being poor. But people do not know that this entire monetary system is just a big game where there are winners and losers. Not everyone can win because in order for a set of individuals to become successful, another set of individuals has to fail. The set of individuals who fail are shamed and punished and they will serve the purpose of being examples of "poorness". Individuals will look at these "poor" individuals and possibly be motivated by their ego not to be like those who are examples of poorness.

But in the end it doesn't matter how much pride, motivation ego, or disgust toward poorness you may have because everyone is just a player in this game. And EVERYONE has the equal chance of becoming poor.

You are only one circumstance away from becoming what you don't want to be (poor).

Anyone who looks down at the poor should remember how easy it is to cross the line between wealth and poorness. Maybe that will give people some empathy and understanding.

If you are wealthy, that doesn't make you any better than those who are not wealthy. Your success has been made and supported by not only your own hard work but by a system that kills millions of people each year and causes countless suffering to many.

I am not implying that the wealthy should feel bad over their success. Just keep in mind that you are apart of a twisted system and your "status" makes you no better or worse than anyone else in the world.

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Sonya610

Yes well I will agree to disgree. By the way your English is flawless, I had no clue it was not your native language.

Thank you. I only speak two languages, so I try and speak them well, although I do understand the latin languages fairly well due to their similarity to portuguese.

Ok, we can agree to disagree, but do consider the big picture as to why the poor are poor, because I do not think individual responsability covers it nor do I think individual capacity justifies it:

At the end of the day it's circumstance for a lot of people and individual drive for a few. But in our current system, which whether you like it or not is a socioeconomic pyramid, there is not enough "good" slots for everyone and the ones at the very top did not get up their by natural selection, it's more a case of them staying there due to historical inertia, to the detriment of millions of good people.

You do not accept this yet, but perhaps in time it may sink in?

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 03:20 PM
azurite hello,

I see what you are saying and for me I would say that you just either are lucky or did the right thing at the right time and it worked for you.

As with everything it could go the other way and in my thoughts.... whatever happens is the way it was meant to be. Doesn't matter how hard or how little you tried.

I'm glad you understood I didn't write that for argument sake I was just expressing my thoughts, thanks.

posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 03:56 PM

Originally posted by LostNemesis
Even for the people who CHOOSE to remain poor

I don't believe anyone CHOOSES or intentionally wants to be poor. That just seems like a ridiculous statement.

by not surrendering their life to some corporate entity

Why would you have to surrender to any corporate entity?

Start your own business then you can surrender to yourself. The majority of the U.S. economy is driven by small business, so work for a small business since you seem to have a problem with large corporations.

Please give some specific examples of this so called poor bashing because I have not seen it here on ATS. Most people have been poor at one time in their life so I find it hard to believe there has been lots of poor bashing.

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