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World's First Dog Lived 31,700 Years Ago!

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posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 04:08 AM
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World's First Dog Lived 31,700 Years Ago!


www.msnbc.msn.com

An international team of scientists has just identified what they believe is the world's first known dog, which was a large and toothy canine that lived 31,700 years ago and subsisted on a diet of horse, musk ox and reindeer, according to a new study.

The discovery could push back the date for the earliest dog by 17,700 years, since the second oldest known dog, found in Russia, dates to 14,000 years ago.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
dsc.discovery.com




posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 04:08 AM
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From the perspective of someone such as myself with a keen interest in Pets, this is an absolutely astonishing discovery. Typically Canis lupus familiaris, Domesticated Dogs, were seen as first making entry into the Evolutionary chain around 12,000 Years Ago. Now however, a recent discovery has pushed that timeline further back by over 17,000 years. It is also interesting to note that they state the earliest known Domestic Dogs would have resembled the Modern Day Huskies, specifically mentioning the Siberian Husky AKA the Sibe, or Arctic Husky.

I always knew that the Huskies were closer to Wolves than most other Modern Dogs. This has been disputed for a while now, as most state such similiarities in their characteristics are due to Phenotyping. I (and I am certain others) however, have felt that they are actually closer by all means on the actual Genetic Timeline, as opposed to simply having such primitively "protected traits". Now other Scientists have arrived at facts, which seem to support this conclusion.

This is cool.

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 04:39 AM
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The first thing that I thought when seeing your headline was, ‘I wonder how they could tell the difference between a Husky and a wolf from that long ago?’
Seems great minds like a think. I’m sure they have their ways, but Husky’s are so similar to their progenitors. I’d like to know the parameters they use to determine what’s a wolf and what’s a domesticated ‘dog’. At what point do they become domesticated? Once they’re hanging around outside the camp, or when they’ve been brought up with people from a pup? Seems to me that they’re not truly a dog until some selective breeding has gone on, even if they’re hanging out and cooperating with people.

Interesting thread.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 10:10 AM
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HMMMMMMMMMMM

so you are telling me humans have been on earth for millions of years..with no dog's to be seen til 3100 years ago?

where did they come from did they just appear from thin air?

IDk what to say besides that



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 10:12 AM
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If my knowledge serves me correctly, 'humans' have only been around for the past 100,000 or so years.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 10:23 AM
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The public education channel just re-ran an excellent series of documentaries on how dogs came to be and how rapidly the different breeds developed from the gray wolf.

Extremely interesting and well done with computer generated movies of the skeletal systems of different breeds shown in running mode.

One point they made was that it's difficult to impossible to tell the breed when the pups are young since all breeds look alike at that time.
Takes a couple months for the breeds characteristics to show up.

It'll probably be back in 3-6 months time.

Highly recommended....



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
...I always knew that the Huskies were closer to Wolves than most other Modern Dogs. ...


Not to put too fine a point on it, but you DO know that there is no inherent different species there, right? A "wolf" can breed with a dog, and those pups can grow up to breed with either wolf OR dog. That says they are the same species. Wolves are just feral dogs.

Wherever you find humans, no matter how far back, you will find dogs. In fact, EVERYWHERE on the planet that you find humans, you find dogs. That's because dogs were CREATED domestic. Think this is wrong? Name one other animal that has an inborn instinct to protect human children.

Sure, you can give one example of a gorilla protecting a child, and everyone goes "That's amazing! Incredible! I've never seen anything like that!". A dog protects a child from a rattlesnake, cougar, or bear, and everyone just goes "Good dog!", because it's expected of them.

Do you also think that it is just coincidence that dogs have the most malleable form of all animals? That they can be bred to serve any function humans can think up? Do you think it coincidence that you can breed small dogs into big dogs, or big dogs into small dogs?

I'll say it another way: Present day scientists have the wrong idea about dogs and wolves. They are not separate species, never have been. Wolves are simply Feral dogs. Take two wolves, and within 1 (maybe 2) generations, their puppies are fully domesticated.

[edit on 22-10-2008 by sir_chancealot]



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 12:04 PM
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I'm guessing that some paleolithic hunter killed a mother wolf with newborn pups and had a brainstorm.

"Hey, I wonder if I get these little boogers early enough, they'll be my "pack" and they'll help me hunt and protect my family?"

Makes sense.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by resistor
I’d like to know the parameters they use to determine what’s a wolf and what’s a domesticated ‘dog’. At what point do they become domesticated? Once they’re hanging around outside the camp, or when they’ve been brought up with people from a pup? Seems to me that they’re not truly a dog until some selective breeding has gone on, even if they’re hanging out and cooperating with people.

Interesting thread.


Modern theories say humans did NOT domestic dogs. Wolves/dogs domesticated themselves.

As another poster pointed out there was a fascinating PBS show on this. Apparently wolves have to be hand raised at a VERY young age to become truly tame, and our cave man ancestors would not have had the time or energy to provide that level of care.

They believe wolves started foraging in the trash piles left around human settlements, and very slowly dogs evolved out of that. Those that foraged successfully had a slightly lower "fear response" and were able to get the best scraps first, as a result they became tamer over many generations and finally they in turn became a separate lineage, their bone structure even changed as a result (compared to the independent wolves that hunted for their food).

As the "dogs" became regular fixures around human settlements they would naturally bark at intruders and that is when humans would have started realizing it was a mutually beneficial relationship.

Though the barking part is odd, because wolves do not "bark". Dogs developed a "bark" to communicate with humans (since we don't understand their communications so well, they had to adopt a very loud and obvious way of telling us what they think). Wolves use much quieter forms of body language. Same thing with cats, cats do not "meow" at eachother, they only meow as a way of communicating with humans and other animals.

It was very interesting, instead of humans "taming" dogs the inverse could have occured (though any pet owner would know that pets aren't smart enough to train their people! haha).


[edit on 22-10-2008 by Sonya610]



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by GreyFoxSolid
If my knowledge serves me correctly, 'humans' have only been around for the past 100,000 or so years.

Eh? Last time I checked, 'humans' (ie the Homo ETC part of our species) go back like 2.5 million years.

And also the last time I checked, they traced the separation of dog and wolves about 100,000 years back using DNA. So between the archaelogical evidence and genetical evidence there is a rather obvious gap...



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 04:10 AM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 




Interesting. I'll definitely have to catch that show.

I've been telling people for a long time when asked, 'is that your dog?' (He's seldom on a leash) 'No, I'm his human.'


edit for correction

[edit on 24-10-2008 by resistor]



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 06:20 AM
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When a tame wolf gives birth, it produces naturally wild offspring which is in stark contrast to the offspring of dogs which are inherently tame right from the get go! If a wolf pup from a tamed individual is not socialized by humans before its eyes open that animal will have problems dealing with people; the same is not true of dogs even for much older puppies of several months! In other words, the taming of individual animals does not bestow genetic modification upon its offspring even over a span of many generations. Simply put, the idea that people from the Mesolithic period tamed the wolf and gradually transformed it into the domesticated dog seems to rest on very shaky ground indeed!

www.buzzle.com...


That is one of the main reasons why they think humans could not have domesticated wolves. Hand raising newborn canines is a LOT of work, they need to eat every 4 hours around the clock.

How on earth would the caveman have even provided the milk every 4 hours? They had NO livestock. There is only one way I could think of (a lactating human female) and that is extremely unlikely.



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