India's Chandrayaan Blasts Off To The Moon!, page 3

Originally posted by the_spark
reply to post by patsy22

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""How can ask those questions before knowing anything about India's history and current data? ""

How do you know that I dont know about Indias history, beliefs and culture??
.""How can you think India cannot have poor people after all those foreign invaders looting all the wealth for centuries?".

So India can recover from all the foreign invaders enough to join the space race......but oh.... cannot provide clean water and sanitary health....

I should have realised....

I am not critising India for progress,,, India has the right to succeed and have the very best.

But you cant use the past as a reason for poverty,,,, you cant blame others forever.... one day accountability lands squarely on the goverments shoulders.

As I said,,,,, my opinions posted with respect.

PVR

reply to post by patsy22

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You reply was sheer lunacy and was arrogant. So you have "travelled all over the third world"... and you think that qualifies you to pass judgement on a DEMOCRATIC nation's decisions? This mission was the action borne of the decision of a billion people. This mission was the extension of 1/6th of the hand of humanity into the sky.

So you think my response is immoral? With all due respect, it isnt your country, you cannot possibly know the mentality until you live there. I was born in India and I know the Indian mentality. You find it absurd that a hungry man would applaud this mission, yet why dont you turn on NDTV and witness the scenes of jubilation. There are beggars dancing in the street with pride for their country. That is what I said you could never understand. That is India: the indomitable of spirit.

Look the bottom line is as I stated it. This mission will actually generate money from the subsequent commercial launches.

I would even entertain a debate about whether the nuclear weapons program was needed, but from a cold, hard clinical point of view this lunar mission was undoubtedly a good step as it will more than pay for itself, while increasing GDP in the short and long term.

Your responses are childish and emotional. I understand you have good intentions, but are you incapable of looking at it rationally?

Apologies if this post was a bit hostile, but I can't stand irrationality (or criticisms of Indian scientific advances ).

reply to post by the_spark

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Just a comment - India has been under invasion for more than a couple of thousand years. Remember Alexander and all the other middle-eastern kings who invaded India and lived here for centuries.

reply to post by 44soulslayer

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I say how did the EMPIRE come into existence , where did it get all the riches from ? Still today 'Kohinoor' glitters on the crown of the Queen of England. We had enough riches to feed other nations greed and at one time we had 20 % of global trade , all taken away by the colonial masters !!!

And today they pontificate to Indians on poverty blah blah blah.

Progress is needed even if its at a cost . MOON is our FIRST STOP and many to come.........

reply to post by patsy22

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Hi Patsy,

With all respect. I am sorry for making a prejudiced statement about your knowledge on Indian history. Btw if you ask how would a space race help poor; I wouldn't even say that a race. India is always been very practical about its space activity. So far it has used its space knowledge only to help people like communication satellites for extending its reach to all rural areas, remote sensing satellites for surveying resources which can be used efficiently, EduSAT for educational purpose. The current mission is solely to understand the resource that are available on moon.

Again poverty cannot be eradicated over night. We are not blaming the past for anything. I just wanted to make a comparison between poverty during independence and now. It has significantly reduced.

FYI en.wikipedia.org...

I honestly dint like the way you picturized as India being irresponsible about its poverty. I believe every country has rights to develop to its capability when it has resource and knowledge.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by patsy22

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""You reply was sheer lunacy and was arrogant.""

In the spirit of free speech and democracy.... you are entitled to your opinion of my reply.

""So you have "travelled all over the third world"... and you think that qualifies you to pass judgement on a DEMOCRATIC nation's decisions? """

I do not recall claiming I am qualified or passing judgement..... merely my
view, based on the poverty I have witnessed as simple person.

"""So you think my response is immoral? ""
Yes I did.

""With all due respect, it isnt your country""

Absolutely true....... and if it was....... my opinion would remain the same.
And though it isnt.... as a fellow human being...... I can in a DEMOCRATIC society express my opinion.

""you cannot possibly know the mentality""

Unfortunatley,, the "mentality" - good choice of word - of many cultures dictates and tries to justify poverty through culture.

"You find it absurd that a hungry man would applaud this mission, yet why dont you turn on NDTV and witness the scenes of jubilation."


No I wouldnt find it absurb,,, because they would be proud,,, and quite right to have pride,,,,, but then its another debate as to why that is.

"There are beggars dancing in the street with pride for their country. That is what I said you could never understand. That is India: the indomitable of spirit."

In 2008 - I would have hoped that "beggars" would be a redundant word.
I make no critisism of India and its spirit.

""Look the bottom line is as I stated it. This mission will actually generate money from the subsequent commercial launches. ""

Good, then in years to come we will see better health, living conditions for your people who have benefited from all the money..... and people like me can shut up!!


""Your responses are childish and emotional. I understand you have good intentions, but are you incapable of looking at it rationally?"""

Maybe,,, but at least I can say my responses are moral. And if being rational... means I condone poverty, then I will reamin as I am thank you.

""Apologies if this post was a bit hostile, but I can't stand irrationality (or criticisms of Indian scientific advances ).

"""


Apology accepted...... but remember...... I am not critisicng India or its scientific advances,...... I am merely debating ... and putting the other side of coin. I intended to provoke debate and reaction,,,, to a headline story.

reply to post by patsy22

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I agree totally that India needs to eliminate poverty. I guess I just look at the long term benefits of this mission as opposed to any short term gains. Its like giving up today's meal to know that tomorrow's meal for you and your children will be assured.

This mission was not a misallocation of money. There are far worse things in India... for example corruption and governmental croneyism that prevent the elimination of poverty. Of course the scale of the problem is also something out of this world!

Anyway, I agree that poverty is an issue, but I dont see space research and poverty elimination as mutually exclusive. I think some people see India reaching the moon and find it strange because they expect that a third world nation could not possibly do so, or that they should be entirely focused on uplifting their population.
India is doing both, at a steady but sure pace. Adbul Kalaam (incidentally the inventor of this PSLV rocket), the ex-president of India wrote a book about the elimination of Indian poverty by 2020. His solution was the same as mine: poverty will be eliminated by science and progress.

reply to post by patsy22

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that's all well and good, but this thread isn't about poverty vs. scientific progress. it's about india's launch and the amazing things some of these experiments(or all) will tell us. if you want to "cause debate" about india's poverty, perhaps you should make a new thread.

on topic, i think it's extremely awesome Mike. great find! i wasn't aware of this launch at all, and now that i am i will be looking forward anxiously to the results of these experiments. i've been pretty disappointed with china's moon exploration.

www.christianaid.org.uk...

is this allowed?

how can you have a space programme when you are also asking for International Aid?

reply to post by baughany

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The same way you can have a military and nuclear weapons while still asking for national aid.

reply to post by Critical_Mass

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Sorry that didn't enlighten me at all.

reply to post by 44soulslayer

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Feed your people first.

Then go to the moon.

With utmost respect.

Originally posted by baughany
reply to post by 44soulslayer

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Feed your people first.

Then go to the moon.

With utmost respect.

Go to the moon, earn spinoff capital to feed your people..

problem solved

reply to post by baughany

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Whatever country you are from sir, no doubt you have homeless, hungry people there too.

One might level the same accusation at any country.

Dermo said it perfectly. I cant put it any more succinctly than that. This was an investment, which will bring in billions of dollars in the future. With all due respect, if you cant see that then you must be unwilling to acknowledge (due to your preconcieved notions) that a third world country is planning on using space technology to feed the poorest people in the world.

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