India's Chandrayaan Blasts Off To The Moon!

Originally posted by the_spark
reply to post by patsy22

 

""How can ask those questions before knowing anything about India's history and current data? ""

How do you know that I dont know about Indias history, beliefs and culture??
.""How can you think India cannot have poor people after all those foreign invaders looting all the wealth for centuries?".

So India can recover from all the foreign invaders enough to join the space race......but oh.... cannot provide clean water and sanitary health....

I should have realised....

I am not critising India for progress,,, India has the right to succeed and have the very best.

But you cant use the past as a reason for poverty,,,, you cant blame others forever.... one day accountability lands squarely on the goverments shoulders.

As I said,,,,, my opinions posted with respect.

PVR

Originally posted by TheOneEyedProphet
interesting news!

Hopefully they don't keep secret what they find.

I think the Septembers offer from the USA to help them upgrade there Nuclear power stations & weapons was more than just convenient!
I doubt there is any chance of secrets being spilled while the USA are so forthcoming with sharing technology. If Pakistan are so annoyed about not getting the same offer from the US then maybe they should send a probe to the moon & see how long it takes before the US buy's there silence.

reply to post by patsy22


You reply was sheer lunacy and was arrogant. So you have "travelled all over the third world"... and you think that qualifies you to pass judgement on a DEMOCRATIC nation's decisions? This mission was the action borne of the decision of a billion people. This mission was the extension of 1/6th of the hand of humanity into the sky.

So you think my response is immoral? With all due respect, it isnt your country, you cannot possibly know the mentality until you live there. I was born in India and I know the Indian mentality. You find it absurd that a hungry man would applaud this mission, yet why dont you turn on NDTV and witness the scenes of jubilation. There are beggars dancing in the street with pride for their country. That is what I said you could never understand. That is India: the indomitable of spirit.

Look the bottom line is as I stated it. This mission will actually generate money from the subsequent commercial launches.

I would even entertain a debate about whether the nuclear weapons program was needed, but from a cold, hard clinical point of view this lunar mission was undoubtedly a good step as it will more than pay for itself, while increasing GDP in the short and long term.

Your responses are childish and emotional. I understand you have good intentions, but are you incapable of looking at it rationally?

Apologies if this post was a bit hostile, but I can't stand irrationality (or criticisms of Indian scientific advances ).

reply to post by the_spark


Just a comment - India has been under invasion for more than a couple of thousand years. Remember Alexander and all the other middle-eastern kings who invaded India and lived here for centuries.

reply to post by 44soulslayer



I say how did the EMPIRE come into existence , where did it get all the riches from ? Still today 'Kohinoor' glitters on the crown of the Queen of England. We had enough riches to feed other nations greed and at one time we had 20 % of global trade , all taken away by the colonial masters !!!

And today they pontificate to Indians on poverty blah blah blah.

Progress is needed even if its at a cost . MOON is our FIRST STOP and many to come.........

reply to post by patsy22


Hi Patsy,

With all respect. I am sorry for making a prejudiced statement about your knowledge on Indian history. Btw if you ask how would a space race help poor; I wouldn't even say that a race. India is always been very practical about its space activity. So far it has used its space knowledge only to help people like communication satellites for extending its reach to all rural areas, remote sensing satellites for surveying resources which can be used efficiently, EduSAT for educational purpose. The current mission is solely to understand the resource that are available on moon.

Again poverty cannot be eradicated over night. We are not blaming the past for anything. I just wanted to make a comparison between poverty during independence and now. It has significantly reduced.

FYI en.wikipedia.org...

I honestly dint like the way you picturized as India being irresponsible about its poverty. I believe every country has rights to develop to its capability when it has resource and knowledge.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer

This mission cost $50 million. There are 900 million hungry people in India. Now do you think they benefit more from being given 18 cents worth of food each, or from being able to take pride in the fact that their country has stepped into space?

Progress is eternal, hunger is temporary

Brilliant reasoning!

But neither of us are feeling the pangs of hunger looking up at the greatness of India blasting off into space in what could have been a shining moment of glory that we can bask in.

Only to be interrupted by the growling tummy. 0.18USD can buy us bread and soup for a meal that'll nourish us happily.

Oh what great joy a meal brought but it'll never shine the likes that streaked into the sky that touches the moon. Atleast we lived to see that.

=====================
No, I'm not from india but I've been there twice and seen and fed the impoverished.

[edit on 22-10-2008 by Prometheus Ascendent]

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by patsy22

 

""You reply was sheer lunacy and was arrogant.""

In the spirit of free speech and democracy.... you are entitled to your opinion of my reply.

""So you have "travelled all over the third world"... and you think that qualifies you to pass judgement on a DEMOCRATIC nation's decisions? """

I do not recall claiming I am qualified or passing judgement..... merely my
view, based on the poverty I have witnessed as simple person.

"""So you think my response is immoral? ""
Yes I did.

""With all due respect, it isnt your country""

Absolutely true....... and if it was....... my opinion would remain the same.
And though it isnt.... as a fellow human being...... I can in a DEMOCRATIC society express my opinion.

""you cannot possibly know the mentality""

Unfortunatley,, the "mentality" - good choice of word - of many cultures dictates and tries to justify poverty through culture.

"You find it absurd that a hungry man would applaud this mission, yet why dont you turn on NDTV and witness the scenes of jubilation."


No I wouldnt find it absurb,,, because they would be proud,,, and quite right to have pride,,,,, but then its another debate as to why that is.

"There are beggars dancing in the street with pride for their country. That is what I said you could never understand. That is India: the indomitable of spirit."

In 2008 - I would have hoped that "beggars" would be a redundant word.
I make no critisism of India and its spirit.

""Look the bottom line is as I stated it. This mission will actually generate money from the subsequent commercial launches. ""

Good, then in years to come we will see better health, living conditions for your people who have benefited from all the money..... and people like me can shut up!!


""Your responses are childish and emotional. I understand you have good intentions, but are you incapable of looking at it rationally?"""

Maybe,,, but at least I can say my responses are moral. And if being rational... means I condone poverty, then I will reamin as I am thank you.

""Apologies if this post was a bit hostile, but I can't stand irrationality (or criticisms of Indian scientific advances

).

"""


Apology accepted...... but remember...... I am not critisicng India or its scientific advances,...... I am merely debating ... and putting the other side of coin. I intended to provoke debate and reaction,,,, to a headline story.

reply to post by patsy22


I agree totally that India needs to eliminate poverty. I guess I just look at the long term benefits of this mission as opposed to any short term gains. Its like giving up today's meal to know that tomorrow's meal for you and your children will be assured.

This mission was not a misallocation of money. There are far worse things in India... for example corruption and governmental croneyism that prevent the elimination of poverty. Of course the scale of the problem is also something out of this world!

Anyway, I agree that poverty is an issue, but I dont see space research and poverty elimination as mutually exclusive. I think some people see India reaching the moon and find it strange because they expect that a third world nation could not possibly do so, or that they should be entirely focused on uplifting their population.
India is doing both, at a steady but sure pace. Adbul Kalaam (incidentally the inventor of this PSLV rocket), the ex-president of India wrote a book about the elimination of Indian poverty by 2020. His solution was the same as mine: poverty will be eliminated by science and progress.

reply to post by patsy22


that's all well and good, but this thread isn't about poverty vs. scientific progress. it's about india's launch and the amazing things some of these experiments(or all) will tell us. if you want to "cause debate" about india's poverty, perhaps you should make a new thread.

on topic, i think it's extremely awesome Mike. great find! i wasn't aware of this launch at all, and now that i am i will be looking forward anxiously to the results of these experiments. i've been pretty disappointed with china's moon exploration.

Well done for India, a subsidary of the US and NASA, I can see another missile shield going up in India!!!

So India launches into space, India & Pakistan are allowed to progress their nuclear research and develop nuclear bombs !!

Poor old Iran, subject to pressure and sanctions from us in the West just because they want to further the development of their own country as they are 50 plus years behind the so called civillised world.

Having a oil rich land must be the work of the devil I guess.

Patsy I agree with your opening post 100%

Wolfie

www.christianaid.org.uk...

is this allowed?

how can you have a space programme when you are also asking for International Aid?

Originally posted by TheOneEyedProphet
interesting news!

Hopefully they don't keep secret what they find.

And that impact probe checking minerals and mining sites makes me wonder...

It seems to me they are in a hurry to get there and begin exploiting the minerals that supposedly other nations have done already, or so the legends say...

I believe we are way off from mineral exploitation on another "heavenly body", but what is there to wonder about really? They clearly mentioned what it is they would be testing for, unless of course they have hidden motives. If anything I hope they can be more transparent than our stupid space program that only gives us worthless blurred pictures of nothing...when we know that imaging tech in space is super-advanced.

I Applaud India for the advancement of their space program. It makes them more of an international equal and i think the more nations that become equals in this world, the more deterrent it will be toward countries who spread aggression. It will bring mankind collectively forward.

It would be great to know that the moon has mineral resources we could use in my opinion. Especially if we made it a joint international effort.
Ok, so I am pipe dreaming, but maybe in the future it is something that is possible.

reply to post by baughany


The same way you can have a military and nuclear weapons while still asking for national aid.

reply to post by Critical_Mass


Sorry that didn't enlighten me at all.

reply to post by 44soulslayer


Feed your people first.

Then go to the moon.

With utmost respect.

I think Iran's problem stems from their stance on Isreal

I don't like your toilet seat theme, do you?

Originally posted by baughany
reply to post by 44soulslayer

 

Feed your people first.

Then go to the moon.

With utmost respect.

Go to the moon, earn spinoff capital to feed your people..

problem solved

reply to post by baughany


Whatever country you are from sir, no doubt you have homeless, hungry people there too.

One might level the same accusation at any country.

Dermo said it perfectly. I cant put it any more succinctly than that. This was an investment, which will bring in billions of dollars in the future. With all due respect, if you cant see that then you must be unwilling to acknowledge (due to your preconcieved notions) that a third world country is planning on using space technology to feed the poorest people in the world.