The "N" word---does and don't's...?????

reply to post by ThatDGgirl

But I still think we're laboring under "someone else's" rules.

And thats what a N***** did for 300 years, And that my dear, is why N***** means so much to a black man.

reply to post by N.B.A.Y.S.O.H


Understand, I'm not trying to insult you, and I see your point... but we've just transferred the ownership of a particularly nasty epithet. And 300 years later, it's still doing it's originally intended job. WHY perpetuate the slur????

reply to post by lombozo


The only thing I can think of that even comes CLOSE to this, is when the C word is used regarding a woman. SO, by the same logic used earlier, not on your post, since the black folks can own the N word and use it to empower themselves, does that mean women should own the C word and use IT to empower themselves???

I am a woman and I think NOT.

And please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the C word get far more use in the UK?

And is the N word something native to the US???

Race, color, creed, sexual orientation, preference, religion, all more or less useless today. there is only one race, the true race. This true race has no name and can only be described with one singular word. MONEY.
The governments of the world care nothing for your history or use of terminology to describe or relate to one another. In fact, that is the point of racial divisions. Keep you separated enough where you can't gang up on the government.
The Governments are the ultimate in tolerance. As long as the N words and crackers, and other useless expletives pay the taxes, everything's gonna be alright.

reply to post by ThatDGgirl


I was debating this the other day and heres what I think. Im white too by the way and not racist.

Years ago listening to some rappers discuss 'the N word'... they said.. the racist white man gave us it as derogatory and now we are just 'taking it' twisting it and 'owning it' and ramming it back in their face -- bla bla. I forgot the rest but that was the jist of it.

In other words they (some of them of that mentality) think they have changed the meaning of it by using it how they do. Like... if N-r means black... we are proud to be black! so 'my brothers' becomes 'my niggaz' however you fancy spelling it, same difference.

We dont generally hear decent family oriented black people who know something use the word.. mainly all rap world / music. Need I say more?

Most rap music is full of bad attitude and gun loving stuff. (note I said most not all)

As for what it truly means I guess it means different things to different people.

Some blacks may call their 'sellout' low minded brothers by the word. If youre an 'uncle Tom' butt kissing brother your a N..r.. etc.. (thats pretty much all the offkey part of the rap world)

But lets go elsewhere with this.. there is a place in Africa called Niger. (and Nigeria) I tend to think that a certain group of slaves came from Niger and so they called them Niger's? (note they just add another 'G' they love G dont they masons... now rappers are all 'G's for what? Gangster I supose) now it has just bred out of control and some racist fools with no knowledge or care for it just want a word to cuss them with and they tend to use their own culture to abuse them with...... so really calling them a N..r doesnt really mean anything in a way! if it means that part of the country then so what? if it means black then so what? its the EMOTION in the person using the words as a vehicle thats the problem not the word its only a word.

I dont think N-r was concocted out of Negro just to abuse people with, so thats why I think it gos back to the land / name. I could be wrong.


Anyway so the rap world is controlled by the white man still. In a sense they (artists) are maybe right if it makes them feel better, but also in another sense the white racist is still laughing harder cause he has them running about calling each other Niggaz and feeding the world with it more than he does!! when most of society would rather they STFU!!! well.. actually we could all accept it or trash it either way it doesnt really matter to me its a dumb word if you think about it long enough. Im a white honky cracker wowee big deal.. sticks and stones.. that mean NOTHING by themselves anyway!?


But if they can use it then white people shouldn't be affraid of using it in the 'same sense' that black people use it! (if they wanted!) they DONT own the word! and surely someone cant be told off for being 'racist' if they have a deeper meaning behind it and are not racist!? Gee.. am I confused?

Stupid words :w: everyone wants us to use their ones or be subject to their meanings and feelings attached to them.. its classic psycho babble.

I've got a question to the black posters of this forum. Is writing "the N-word" better or worse than just coming out and saying it (if it's being used in a contextual manor,like in this thread,not as a negative brain dead slur) If you see what i mean. Cos I ain't the sort to pussy foot around. Where I live,is a mixing bowl of lots of races,these days,me and my mates racially abuse eachother ALL DAY LONG. As a parody of rascism and racists. (ok,an outsider looking in on us would probably be a little uncomfortable with it) We have proper laughs with it,cos it does stun some people. (get some great looks in a mainly white pub,when an Asian dude comes over and calles me an effin honkey b@@tard.)

So,back to the question. Is it (as/less/more) offensive writing "it" as "The N-Word" ? Doesn't it hyphen the fact that someone was going to say "the N-word" and thusly render the abrieviation pointless and offensive in itself.


edit,cos I'd misse a chunk of my point.


[edit on 23/10/2008 by Acidtastic]

Originally posted by Acidtastic
So,back to the question. Is it (as/less/more) offensive writing "it" as "The N-Word" ? Doesn't it hyphen the fact that someone was going to say "the N-word" and thusly render the abrieviation pointless and offensive in itself.


[edit on 23/10/2008 by Acidtastic]

Well, consider the ""C-word" as relates to women. If someone calls me or someone I feel empathy for the C-word, with the intent to insult or harm, I dont give a fig about laws for assault, I am going to attempt to make them eat that word. Male or female. Bigger than me or not. Win or lose on my end. Perhaps if the spirit of Zen is particularly strong in me that day, I will try to do the noble thing, but dont count on that. I am not a dualist, and if a fight feels right, I may very well go with it.


Unless, I can discern that that person genuinely has no idea that term is a hostile and deeply offensive one. (ie; they are non-native English speakers, retarded, or so innocent they have never heard it before.)

Intent, to me, is the big thing. If you are intending to hurt me or someone I feel protective of for whatever reason, with a word, in my mind your karma is what it is.

If someone does not intend to offend, I will use other means to explain to them that the word is offensive and direct them to choose another.

The use of the term "N-word" or "C-word" in this sort of context is a way to reference a particular word in the course of conversation. So that we all know what word or term we are discussing. There is no intent to offend simply by the use of the word.


If, however, someone got in my face and screamed, "C-word! You effing C-word!" at me, I would think they were pretty twisted, but I would still likely pop them one. I would discern that they intended to hurt me by using that term, and unless I thought they were totally insane, I would do what I felt I needed to do in that moment.

Mind you, I grew up in a culture that accepts fist fighting, (not weapon violence) and, that has colored my view of it. I disagree with the mainland view that you can say what you want and there will not be consequences for it.

If someone writes a post where they are saying "N-word" or "C-word" as an obviously politically correct way to call someone a hostile name, I think they should be called to the carpet for it.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

If someone writes a post where they are saying "N-word" or "C-word" as an obviously politically correct way to call someone a hostile name, I think they should be called to the carpet for it.

Absolutely. Those words are reprehensible. HOWEVER, I have, on a handful of occasions used those words to DESCRIBE one individual to another. Was my intent hostile? No. Edit to add: Yes, intent WAS hostile. Did I mean to insult the people I was describing? Yes.

Basically, my whole point in starting this thread was this question... WHY is it ok for them and not for us? Is there another word in the English language that carries such unique qualifications? Not even the C word does, in that respect.

I think I'm getting lost...................

[edit on 23-10-2008 by ThatDGgirl]

Originally posted by ThatDGgirl


Absolutely. Those words are reprehensible. HOWEVER, I have, on a handful of occasions used those words to DESCRIBE one individual to another. Was my intent hostile? No. Edit to add: Yes, intent WAS hostile. Did I mean to insult the people I was describing? Yes.

I think I'm getting lost...................

[edit on 23-10-2008 by ThatDGgirl]

I dont think you are getting lost. When you chose those words, your intent was to express anger, rage and hostility. You chose the worst words you could think of. I may not use the "n-word" to express my rage, but that is because I grew up in a place where it was virtually unheard of. No one used it. We had our own words, equally hateful.

Whether or not we use, (and I would guess most of us have used SOME hateful term at some point in time, either behind the back of or to someones face) is beside the point really.

My whole argument is that allowing one "group" or "type" of person permission to use a word is discrimination. Discrimination against one group is not the right way to make up for discrimination against another.

People DO use those words differently. Maybe among friends they can be used less harmfully. Maybe. I reject, however, the notion that one group of people should have a word or term withheld from them while being openly used by another group. THAT is a hostile act, one of discrimination. All discrimination can do is breed resentment. And, eventually, more discrimination. It is a vicious cycle.

Much has been made about history here. The hundreds of years of this or that, and the burden carried by one group imposed by another. I will again state something I said earlier. Every human being only experiences their own lifetime.

Women, for example, have been treated as property for THOUSANDS of years in some areas. Raped, murdered, beaten, blamed and even executed for their own victimization, prohibited from acquiring education, forced to marry and bear children with men they did not choose and who treated them badly, refused a voice in law or politics, etc.

That is not my experience. Although I am a woman and genetically related to women who DID experience that sort of discrimination and abuse. I can only experience my OWN lifetime. I have had to deal with chauvinists. I have had to fight for a job. I have listened to hostile speech and deal with discriminatory laws and religious views, and those things I have experienced I have the right to deal with. I do NOT have the right to personal outrage and victimhood over a past I did not experience. I may be sad for it for their sakes, I may work to ensure it does not come to pass in my present or my future, but I have no right to impose a penalty against the modern descendants of the historic oppressors of women.

In this case, the one of "whites" and "blacks" not all white people participated in slavery. Many were far, far too poor to own anything, much less anyone. Not all white people were free themselves. The reason the inhabitants of Barbados have a particular lilt to their English is because tens of thousands of Irish were stolen off the streets in Ireland and sold and sent to Barbados as slaves themselves.

www.yale.edu...

Oliver Cromwell "barbadosed" Irish who refused to clear off their land and allowed other Irish to be kidnapped from the streets of Ireland and transported to Barbados. Those who were barbadosed were sold as slaves or indentured servants, to British planters. They lived in slave conditions and had no control over the number of years they had to serve. The number of Barbadosed Irish in not known and estimates very widely, from a high of 60,000 to a low of 12,000.

Thats just the tip of the iceberg. Many, many people who "immigrated" to the Americas or Australia were not "free" (as we consider it) to choose. Some were driven off their land in "clearances" and put aboard ships and then had to work their "fare" off for whatever period someone else decided. Some were "criminals" whose only crime was extreme poverty and desperation. To paint all white people with the brush of "slave owners" is not only factually incorrect, but it is deeply unfair.

They too could be whipped, beaten, kept in inhumane conditions, raped, hung for running away.

en.wikipedia.org...

The law provided for punishments for runaway indentured servants. In 1638, for example, several lashes were the punishment for running away. In the following year, the punishment was extended to hanging the runaway. By 1641 the law was changed such that death would be the punishment unless the servant requested that his or her service be extended after the expiration of the contract. The service could be extended up to twice the time absent, not to exceed seven years.

Was there a difference? Absolutely. Except for those just sold outright into slavery such as the Irish in Barbados, most indentured servants would someday be freed unless they died before they finished the term of their indenture.

However, despite this difference, it is foolish to assume that all whites bear the burden equally for what happened to those black people who were brought to the Americas as slaves. It is also foolish to assume that all modern descendants of slave owners must pay some penalty for the actions of their ancestors. I know plenty of white males who have never in their life either oppressed a woman, or an ethnic minority. For what are they being punished? And how is discrimination towards them justified? And why is racism, or sexism more acceptable when it is applied to one group over another?

The answer is, it isnt more acceptable. Individuals do things. Individuals are responsible for their actions. Individuals should be punished or rewarded based upon their own merits or failings.

Directly related to this, individuals make choices about the words they use, and how they use them. There are repercussions for using certain words in certain ways. However, it should never be decided based on skin color. That isnt an improvement over the past, it is business as usual.

Originally posted by Observer_X
reply to post by ThatDGgirl

 

As for what it truly means I guess it means different things to different people.

This is more of a reply to your whole post about how "rap" has magnified the "N" word.

A tribe callled quest had a song called "suckanigga" - here is a lot from
the verse -

"See, nigga first was used back in the deep south

Fallin out between the dome of the white mans mouth

It means that we will never grow, you know the word dummy

Other niggas in the community think its crummy

But I dont, neither does the youth cause we

Em-brace adversity it goes right with the race

And being that we use it as a term of endearment

Niggas start to bug to the dome is where the fear went

Now the little shorties say it all of the time

And a whole bunch of niggas throw the word in they rhyme

Yo I start to flinch, as I try not to say it

But my lips is like the oowop as I start to spray it"



Personally I use the word all the time, but I also swear all the time,
"the do's and don'ts" - it is nothing more than an inside joke..
If you aren't sure if you should say it, then DON'T.
I certainly don't say it around everyone, but I don't swear around everyone either

reply to post by juveous


Yeah that pretty much sums it up.

nigga is played out. I mean I see 7 yr old white kids calling each other nigga.

Its funny seeing everyone trying to tip-toe around saying/typing 'n-word'.Like if you say it on here your instantly gunna be labeled a racist.To me saying n-word or nigga is just stupid just say the stupid word, everyone knows this thread is in good faith and anything racist would be quickly removed anyway.
So everyone repeat after me NIGGER.......see you weren't struck by lightning for saying it just don't be stupid and call people 'n-word's(could result in bodily harm).
And like lysergic said that word is so played out its not even funny.I personally believe that word has lost its power so in a way its been good having it in popular vocab, say a word enough it loses its meaning.

"Its not what they call you its what you answer to"-Skinlab

Edited coz i didnt realise if you type 'n-word' you get nword haha bugger me.
Forget my little rant than i suppose.
Censorship at its best.

[edit on 24-10-2008 by Azador]

Originally posted by Azador
Its funny seeing everyone trying to tip-toe around saying/typing 'n-word'.Like if you say it on here your instantly gunna be labeled a racist.To me saying n-word or nigga is just stupid just say the stupid word, everyone knows this thread is in good faith and anything racist would be quickly removed anyway.
So everyone repeat after me NIGGER.......see you weren't struck by lightning for saying it just don't be stupid and call people 'n-word's(could result in bodily harm).
[edit on 24-10-2008 by Azador]

lol -
First of all, you should preview a post before posting it, ATS auto corrects the word - *Nigger* into 'n-word'

I do not use the n word nor any other type of insulting words. It is not my nature.

But.............I will say any word I please. No group of people or any government is going to dictate what I can say.

To me this goes further than just the use of a word. Where will it stop?

"Give me liberty or give me death." Patrick Henry

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


oooer,the C-word is one of my favourite words. Infact,I do believe it was used to describe me a few times last night. I think maybe in England it's not as offensive. Cos it's bandied about one hell of alot,even creeping into films and stuff. I can reighn it in when I have to,especially when I know I'm in the company of someone who doesn't like to hear it used (like my sister) But then,when these same people carry on and use derogative terms for male genetalia (calling someone a di*k or co*k,or even so far as scrote) then I lax back into my ways,because what's good for the gander,is good for the goose.

reply to post by Acidtastic


Fine by me. Again, I dont think any word should be off limits to a specific group of people as a rule.

As long as people are willing to pay the individual consequences of using the word around other individuals.

It isnt a term of endearment where I am from, saying it directly to me may result in a fight. Historically, that has been the case.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Fine by me. Again, I dont think any word should be off limits to a specific group of people as a rule.

All words are are available to all people. No one here wants to pass laws limiting free speech. The argument comes down to simple manners and respect for others.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Acidtastic

 

It isnt a term of endearment where I am from, saying it directly to me may result in a fight. Historically, that has been the case.

Far be it for me to to comment,but would you mind if I asked why a word can evoke such a strong reaction from you? If I'm prying into something I have no right in prying into,just say so It's just,that it seems a little OTT,using violence against someone who calls you a name. Seems a little strange to me. Tis all.