My Christian Dilemma

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posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 10:10 AM
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This kind of topic has been bothering me for awhile. You see, I grew up in a Christian home and my parents are Christians and so are most of my relatives and friends, but I'm no longer a Christian. Well at least not in the way most people would think. The thing is, I just got sick of not finding the answers I wanted and that people kept avoiding the topic and ignoring things I felt were important, oh and the hypocrisy too.

It just seemed that I couldn't find the actual I answers that I wanted and needed. And you know, as I started reading about certain things more and opening my mind up more, a lot of things started looking more nonsensical and it kept getting harder to believe that the Bible was all there was to it. But it was a pretty hard struggle to get where I am now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an Atheist, I still believe in God but not in the way the Bible supposedly says.

But what's really getting to me, is that the Christian perspective and the Christian world is where I grew up in, and it still holds a lot of comfort for me. I still like to listen to Christian songs and all that and I've even entertained the idea of going to church again. I miss being apart of that community, because I was apart of it all my life. But I just couldn't continue being a Christian anymore. There are things that I believe that don't "gel" with being a Christian.

Like, I don't believe that homosexuality is wrong. I don't believe in hell, or that it would be forever because I believe that there is always hope and that there's always a chance for someone to change or see that what they've done is wrong. I don't believe that the Earth is the only place where life exists. I'm not sure about Jesus either, I believe he existed and I guess I could believe that he was the Son of God and died on the cross, but I can't believe that he is the only way to get to Heaven and God. And if he is, then why would people go to hell forever for not believing that? Maybe reincarnation is true, maybe the Cathars got it right. That way there is still hope for someone so if Jesus is the only way, then we get more than one lifetime to realise it.

It's just a lot of things I guess, that seem inconsistent and don't make sense. Especially in scientific and philosophical terms if you know what I mean?

But the thing is, I still kind of hope that there are answers out there, answers that would make sense and clarify things I don't understand. Until that happens though, I can't continue calling myself a Christian when it goes against what my heart is telling me. But like I said, I still hold hope and I'm objective enough to look at both sides of the argument.

I guess, what I'm trying to get at is, even though I'm not a Christian, it still has some hold over me. I still miss being apart of that community and the comfort.

I do respect other people who are Christians though, but now that I'm not a Christian it feels like I might be seen as an opponent now and that my views or questions now might not be heard or taken seriously because I am not a believer anymore. And I wouldn't want that to happen because I still want to believe, but I need answers and I don't have them. And there are sometimes where I have seen a lot of hypocrisy in the Christian community and that turns me away even more.

Lol it seems funny when I think about it. I mean, I still want to be apart of the Christian community, you know helping and stuff and going to church, but, you know I have issues with some of the beliefs. It's just hard to get my head around this and understand. I really still respect Christians, because most Christians I know are really nice people and have great characters and they're just some of the most upstanding people I know. I guess I just don't want to be shut out and to be thought of as a "bad" person you know?

And another thing is, I did feel that I connected with God or the "divine" when singing certain hymns or especially when I was in church. I did feel God's presence, and sometimes I still do, especially if I pray. And I do know that God exists, because I can feel Him (or her?? some people would say) with my soul.

Lol sorry if this doesn't make sense, but I just wondered if anyone else is having the same dilemma as me? Or am I the only one?

Oh and please, no smarta** comments or remarks, I really just want understanding and an intelligent discussion about this and why it happens




posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 01:26 PM
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Very well written my brother!!!

Can you pinpoint the time in your life/circumstances when your doubts came

What is the your basis, intellectually, that...

1) Homosexuality is OK?

2) That hell is a myth?

3) That it is wrong as a Christian to believe in other intelligent life forms in the universe?

4) That JC is NOT the only way to heaven?

5) And that re-incarnation may be true?

Doubts, questions, being skeptical are not a threat to God...in my opinion.

Great idea for a thread!

OT curious?



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 01:52 PM
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Are you trying to make God and his teachings conform to your own desires and beliefs? This is called idolatry because you are making your own idol to worship. As you probably guessed this comes from a Christian but in the times we live this feel good self serving new age religious thinking is going to be the downfall of millions (I'm not saying you are self serving, I'm only recognizing that it is a popular modern day problem). I don't want to see you on that slide.

We have his word...we have his teachings...we are his children and should not cherry pick according to our own wishes.

I know you are trying to make sense of the teachings and logically agree or disagree with them using modern ideals but Christianity is a faith not a science. We have faith in God/Jesus...we have faith in his word that has been accurately passed down through time and written in our hearts.

I hope you don't read this post as an attack on you but I do believe in speaking plainly and directly.

Wishing you the best.....





[edit on 10/21/2008 by kinglizard]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Thank you for your reply



Originally posted by OldThinker

Can you pinpoint the time in your life/circumstances when your doubts came


I first started having doubts I think about sometime last year, when I was watching the Sci-Fi show, Stargate SG-1 a little after my family's two pet cats died. It was really hard and I started watching SG-1 more because it was comforting to watch it and it started me thinking about aliens and other planets more.


What is the your basis, intellectually, that...

1) Homosexuality is OK?


Well, for one, I don't really trust the Bible as it is now because there are so many different versions and over time, it's been edited by a lot of different people who each had their own agendas or whatever. So some of the verses in the Bible that mention homosexuality as a sin, might not be the proper translations. Also another thing is, I've read a bit about the eunichs, here is the link to the page: www.gaychristian101.com. I'm not homosexual, but I just don't believe it's unnatural or that it's wrong or that it's fair for someone who can't change their orientation and tell them that they have to in order to be saved.



2) That hell is a myth?


My main reason for believing that hell as an actual place that someone would be sent to forever is that I believe that there is always hope. I believe that there is always and will always be a chance for someone to see that they have done something wrong. I just think that a really truly loving God wouldn't want to send someone that he loves unconditionally, to hell, well at least for forever. If hell does exist, then I don't get why it would be forever. If God really loved everyone, I would think that he would want everyone to see the error of their ways, no matter how long it takes. Because after all, it says in the Bible that Christians will spend eternity with Him, so time wouldn't be an issue.



Hope you don't mind if I answer the rest tomorrow? I really need to get to bed lol



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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Thank you for the quick reply...

Get some sleep...

I'll be here tomorrow...

One final thought tonight...

Check out IICor 4:4 before retiring...



kinglizard, nice reply!

OT out!

[edit on 21-10-2008 by OldThinker]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 08:29 PM
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Are you trying to make God and his teachings conform to your own desires and beliefs?


With the greatest possible respect I can muster...I've seen this from so many Christians...

it's ridiculous how people twist the bible so stinking much. Not all of course but I gotta say...

OP asked some honest questions here I think...I only wish I had more to explain here

-Kyo



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 07:07 AM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


continued from before...



Originally posted by OldThinker

3) That it is wrong as a Christian to believe in other intelligent life forms in the universe?


Well I know Creationists would say that there couldn't be any other type of life forms anywhere else in the universe because Earth is the only planet with life on it. I suppose it's mainly to do with opposing evolution? But what if God created people on other planets too? But He sent his son here to Earth because we actually needed saving, but not the other civilisations?

One of the arguments I've heard used is that Jesus was sent to Earth to save people from Adam and Eve's lineage. Well that maybe so, but I don't see why that would mean there couldn't be people on other planets if you know what I mean?



4) That JC is NOT the only way to heaven?


Hmm, it does say in the Bible that Jesus says he is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one goes to the Father except through him. The only issue I would have with that is that it means people who belong to other religions won't be allowed to go to Heaven and would go to hell forever because of not knowing Jesus. That's the only issue I have with it.

But Jesus did say he was the only way, and if he really did say that, then I guess I'd be willing to believe him. But then if that's true I couldn't believe that hell is forever. Maybe hell exists, but why would it be forever? That's what I really don't get. It doesn't make sense because God has all eternity, He has all the time He could possibly need. So why wouldn't He want to spend more time to make sure that everyone gets to Heaven? Especially if He loves everyone equally and unconditionally?



5) And that re-incarnation may be true?


Well it would make sense if it did. Especially if Jesus is the only way to God and Heaven and a person didn't accept him as their Lord and Saviour in this lifetime. I think it makes more sense what the Cathars believed in.


The goal of Cathar eschatology was liberation from the realm of limitation and corruption identified with material existence. The path to liberation first required an awakening to the intrinsic corruption of the medieval "consensus reality", including its ecclesiastical, dogmatic, and social structures. Once cognizant of the grim existential reality of human existence (the "prison" of matter), the path to spiritual liberation became obvious: matter's enslaving bonds must be broken. This was a step-by-step process, accomplished in different measures by each individual. The Cathars accepted the idea of reincarnation. Those who were unable to achieve liberation during their current mortal journey would return another time to continue the struggle for perfection. Thus, it should be understood that reincarnation was neither a necessary nor a desirable event, but a result of the fact that not all humans could break the enthralling chains of matter within a single lifetime.
emphasis mine



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by kinglizard
 



Originally posted by kinglizard
Are you trying to make God and his teachings conform to your own desires and beliefs?


No I'm not trying to make God and his teachings conform to my own desires and beliefs, I'm just trying to understand them more. I have some doubts and there are things that don't make sense to me, so I'm trying to understand God's word more and see if there are any answers or explanations that do make sense.

And yes I do have a little doubt that the Bible is the whole word of God and that it's whole and perfect as it it. I've been told that the King James version of the Bible is the best version because it's a closer translation to the original texts? Well I've just been told that it's the best version, better than the more newer ones like the New International Version and New Century Version and all the others. But I've read somewhere that King James added things to the original texts after they'd been translated and he met with his council or something to decide what should be put into the Bible. So yeah, I'm just wondering, what about all the texts like all those other gospels? Maybe what we have now as the Bible isn't quite complete? And other things that God or Jesus have said, is now left out and we might not be getting the full story or teachings.

I know you're not attacking me, I understand where you're coming from and I appreciate your response



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by kinglizard
Are you trying to make God and his teachings conform to your own desires and beliefs?

Alot of the bible is interpritive so it can be taken alot of different ways. Like murdering women for being "witches" for instance.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:31 AM
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reply to post by riley
 


Thanks for your response.

A lot of things do seem as if it depends on how a person interprets the Bible. That's why a lot of it seems unclear to me. I mean, we have quite a few different denominations who all believe slightly different teachings to the other. All from different interpretations. So who's to say which one is right? Is it all about perspective? Or is only one point of view true, and how can anyone possibly know that?



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 02:33 AM
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reply to post by KyoZero
 


Thanks for your reply.

It's hard to find people around me who'll want to talk about these kinds of things, so here is really the only place I can actually discuss it. I have a lot of questions that I'd like answers to (don't we all though). It seems like people are more open-minded on here, so I thought I'd be more likely to find answers.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 11:58 PM
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It be honest I agree with King. Without sounding to harsh or mean. But Christianity is the way the truth and the light. You douts have come at some point to every Christian born.

But to get your answers did you every thinking on reading the bible. Hell is not forever. And yes its a place and punishment. In revelations all those in hell will be gone. And your problem with thinking some can just be forgiven and let into heaven. I think this one you should'nt even question God on. Think about! Whats happens when you have a kid a girl. And at the age of 8 she is rap, kill, rap again. And these two go out and do it again, again and, again. Think about the evil, the hate, and you want to let them go to heaven????? Insane man. Of course thats wrong. God has to punish those that would destory life no matter what. Your basicly saying that a murder and serial kill should be let go, and back into public!!! Hell no for that.

And then I believe you said reincation could be right! No one ever think about how recarnation could happen. So let me guess the spirit of one who dies, goes and gets created in a new life. Let think about that. So the person die, and the spirit of one goes in a women who haveing sex and the person is recreated??? Sound stupid??? O o wait. It happens after the women had ( or animal or other being) sex. So the spirit invades other in the womens stumach kicking out the little baby spirit. Come on man recarnation is a little to crazy.

I know you have question but ask God for your questions pray, and read the bible. And I personal think you should ask your church for the questions you have. If you church really loves you and respects you then they would understand your questions and try to help you. If they dont then they probably not worthy enough.

God loves you and understands and he'll help you. Just ask him

God bless and go with his spirit.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by slymattb
 



Originally posted by slymattb
But to get your answers did you every thinking on reading the bible. Hell is not forever. And yes its a place and punishment. In revelations all those in hell will be gone. And your problem with thinking some can just be forgiven and let into heaven. I think this one you should'nt even question God on. Think about! Whats happens when you have a kid a girl. And at the age of 8 she is rap, kill, rap again. And these two go out and do it again, again and, again. Think about the evil, the hate, and you want to let them go to heaven????? Insane man. Of course thats wrong. God has to punish those that would destory life no matter what. Your basicly saying that a murder and serial kill should be let go, and back into public!!! Hell no for that.

And then I believe you said reincation could be right! No one ever think about how recarnation could happen. So let me guess the spirit of one who dies, goes and gets created in a new life. Let think about that. So the person die, and the spirit of one goes in a women who haveing sex and the person is recreated??? Sound stupid??? O o wait. It happens after the women had ( or animal or other being) sex. So the spirit invades other in the womens stumach kicking out the little baby spirit. Come on man recarnation is a little to crazy.


Thanks for your reply.

Actually, no I wasn't saying that someone who is unrepentant of their crimes should be allowed into Heaven. What I'm saying is it's seems a little unfair that you only get one life to get it right. If you don't see the light within your lifetime, then that's it. It doesn't make sense. I was saying that I believe that there is always hope for everyone. No matter what they've done. So it makes sense that we wouldn't only have one lifetime to come to the belief that Jesus is the only way to Heaven if that were true.

If Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven, then what about people who have never heard of Jesus before? What if they never, ever get to hear about him in their lifetime? So they go to hell for ALL of eternity just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time?? I don't think that's very fair at all. And in the Bible it says that God is just. The thought that someone who didn't know about Jesus has to go to hell forever because they didn't accept him as their Lord and Saviour in their one and only lifetime on Earth, just doesn't seem like it would come from a loving, just and fair God.

Maybe the Bible has been misinterpreted. Maybe all of the things that people believe come from the Bible, really don't? Maybe it was a different meaning that we were supposed to get? That there is a different interpretation that is the true one or truer one. Man isn't perfect after all, we all make mistakes.

I don't really see how some things, some beliefs are set in stone and they can't be changed even when new ideas and different understandings come to light. We have different beliefs than Christians 500 years ago, that came from a newer interpretation, a new, different way of seeing things than was previously believed. So why isn't that the same now?

We don't know everything, so how can we think that we know the exact interpretation now???

Why is it that if you don't believe exactly what another person believes, you are wrong, or you're going to hell???

Isn't the main thing that you believe that there is a God who loves you and He sent His son to show us how much He loves us? Are modern Christians becoming a little too alike to the Pharisees? Shouldn't it be more about Love, rather than picking out which bits are the right thing to believe and telling everyone else to believe it too or their going to hell?


Oh well, I just guess I have a difference of opinion when it comes to what to believe
.

------------------



I guess though, what I was really wondering is if there are people who don't really agree with the Christian religion and doctrine exactly (Gnostic Christians, Athiests etc.) who find themselves still wanting to go to church or get involved in church activities? Or still listening to Christian music even if you don't believe exactly in what they're saying?

[edit on 2/11/2008 by Sparkly_Eyed777]



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 11:39 AM
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There nothing wrong with your question and the fact is you dont have to believe in what others believe only in what the bible believe and teaches which you and read and ask God to help your understand.

I dont think that God will destroy those that never got the chance to hear. But end the end it says that all the ends of the earth learn to know Christianity. I think God does great care in who comes into heaven and haves life after death. I dont think that we should have to worry about that too much. God is'nt stupid.

And your right belief in God and Jesus is what saves you. but faith with works means nothing. You have to work for God too and have faith. God bless



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by slymattb
 


Well I do hope that if Jesus is the only way to God and to Heaven, everyone will all eventually end up there. I don't know, I just hate the idea that someone who's never known him will go to hell and they didn't have a clue at all...

Like I said I do want to believe, and I am somewhat of a believer I mean I would call myself a Christian. After all, I do agree with what Jesus taught. And I definitely believe in God, I've had experiences that have left no question in my mind about God's existence.

But yeah, I'm just still unsure about the Bible (as it is now) and whether it's the whole and perfect Word of God because it's seems throughout history there have been people tampering with it and adding their own beliefs and whatever, into it. But yeah, thanks again for your reply


[edit on 6/11/2008 by Sparkly_Eyed777]



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 11:01 AM
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To be honest I do think you have to be somewhat care and let the spirit guide you on the word of the bible. Be what we must realize by the bible is it agree with history. When it talks about a King and Queen or a person. That person is what they said at the time it says. The bible agree with history perfectly almost. Infact their are cities and cultures that only the bible talks about and where finding today! Then you have the phophecies only which prove the bible. Then you ask for all the new bibles. Well the schollars and wrighters of the new bibles are getting closer to what the scroll says which all were dating to different time periods. And they all still agrees with history and phophecies.

God bless



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 06:22 PM
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I have been studying history and the bible for a few years and am not a member of any denomination.

THE ONLY WAY TO GOD IS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST
This is what all Christians say when you start to get stuck into the shallow veil which most believers cover themselves with. There are lots of people who go to church, pray, say they are christians but are not actually practising even the ten commandments. They are the hypochrits. In fact they are the idol worshippers.

How many christians worship a man on a cross before GOD. This is a total blasphemy, Jesus was not to be put in the place of GOD at all and most Christians in the west these days worship the mangod more than concentrating on GOD himself. There is not and has never been any reason for GOD to have a helper or doorman. Jesus has come from the same Greek personification of GODS which the Hebrews who administered the Greek empire picked up the idea from the Greek faith.

The west have been sold a dummy my friend to fit the Hebrew faith into our western so called barbarian society on the back of the Roman emporical adventures to control our unruly lot.

Jesus is the personification of the winter solstice in december and john the baptist is born exactly 6 months before jesus on the summer solstice.

We in the west are Pagan and the powers have assimilated the old hebrew myths and folklore with our own to help us accept the bible.


I can prove this to some extent and am writing a book on it.
I have not got all the answers but i will help where i can if anyone is lost.
All i will say to you is be careful when listening to people who cant give you answers and are swallowed up in their blindness.
Son of John



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by slymattb
 


Thanks again for replying, sorry if this reply is a little late.

I think another thing I've been having issue with is the topic of prophecies in the Bible. There are people who aren't Christians who can also predict things that can come true. So yeah, I don't know.

But anyway, thanks again for replying and helping with some of the questions and doubts that I had. I don't think I can believe all of the Bible or all of what Christianity has to say. But I believe in God and I appreciate your effort to help me understand a few things



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 02:11 AM
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reply to post by Son of John
 


Thank you for your reply


Hmm, what you have to say is interesting, it kind of sounds like what they say in the Zeitgeist movie, concerning Jesus' existence. I'm not sure if I believe that though. But I guess, for all I know that could be true. I guess it's up to me to find out though


I agree though that there are a lot of Christians who are hypocrites who don't practice what they preach. Especially when it comes to loving others. It's a shame because there are also a lot of Christians who are amazing people and are more concerned with loving their fellow human being and who don't judge but want good for others instead of always worrying about sin this, sin that. It's too much about the rules and what you can and can't do than it is about actually loving people and working to make the world a better place.

But oh well that's life I guess, there's the good with the bad and we're all only human after all



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by Sparkly_Eyed777
 



I would like to tell you that you can trust your Bible as being very true to the original texts. Don't ever take the skeptics and scoffers at their word, they have an anti-Christian agenda. There was a lot of doubt thrown on the Old Testament for a long time that has been obliterated with the discovery of the dead sea scrolls. Copies of the text separated by 1000s of years have been found to be virtually identical. Please examine this web page which compares the Great Isiah scroll (100 BC) to the Masoretic text (1000 AD):


Of the 166 words in Isaiah 53, there are only 17 letters in question. Ten of these letters are simply a matter of spelling, which does not affect the sense. Four more letters are minor stylistic changes, such as conjunctions. The three remaining letters comprise the word LIGHT, which is added in verse 11 and which does not affect the meaning greatly. Furthermore, this word is supported by the Septuagint (LXX). Thus, in one chapter of 166 words, there is only one word (three letters) in question after a thousand years of transmission - and this word does not significantly change the meaning of the passage." (Norman Geisler & William Nix, "A General Introduction to the Bible", Moody Press, Page 263).

www.ancient-hebrew.org...

The actual evidence shows that the Bible has not been tampered with and altered, those are ignorant and or malicious speculations used to discredit Gods word - please don't fall for it.

I became a Christian later in life and I held many of the beliefs the liberal world does. I did not accept many of the things you are struggling with like hell and homosexuality being sin etc. However my opinions have changed as I have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. Try to focus on a relationship with Jesus and on prayer. If you put Christ right in the middle of the controversial questions you have - he will lead you to the answers.

That has been my experience. If I put it before God and honestly seek his truth - the answer comes in a satisfying manner. Through his word, or a experience, another person, an apologetics website etc. or a combination. He will answer if you pay attention, the key is establishing and maintaining that relationship with God first and foremost. That is what being a Christian is really about.

edit: Respectfully, if my talk of a relationship with Jesus seems odd or unfamiliar, consider that maybe you have held a false definition of "Christian", many people define themselves that way just because they attend church or it's a tradition. It's about a relationship not religion.





[edit on 11/16/2008 by Bigwhammy]





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