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89-year-old charged with keeping kids' ball

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posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 02:54 PM
reply to post by InfaRedMan

IRm, it seems you gave those boys a lesson that their parents should have instilled a long time ago! I fetched my ball from a neighbors every now and then but we always tried our best to not let it shoot over their garden.

Good on you.

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 03:02 PM
Did anyone look at the map of the street they live on? I jotted down the coordinates. The options for these kids are limited. They are young and obviously do not have the accuracy of a seasoned quarterback.

The article does not report whether their ball ever lands in other neighbors yards, but I am inclined to believe it does. I think this lady just takes it personally. I would support them going to the park about a half mile from their home if they had a moderatley safe way to get there. How old are these kids anyways?

Again no I never tormented any adults or neighbors in my childhood. Yes we had scuffles between ourselves, but I cannot think of a moment where we decided we are going to torment any adults. When it came to adults we pretty much knew our place.

Thats how adults need to be percieved to children. the supreme authority. Of course once the teenage years hit we knew it goes downhill from there.

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 03:27 PM
Well the whole situation is rather stupid and could have been settled without ever calling the police. The problem is probably parents who have read one to many parenting books that say deciplining you're child is going to do them some kind of permenant harm. So their little prince or princess is a pint sized terror that the neighbors dread to see coming. The poor old lady had probably had it up to here with the kids and was only trying to teach them a lesson in respecting other people's property. I'm just wondering why the cop thought this was a good use of his time and taxpayers money.

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 04:13 PM
reply to post by DYepes

The map is irrelevant.

This is about respect and property rights, not "woulda-shoulda's" based on where someone lives and what their neighborhood affords them. I do actually feel sorry for these kids, not having a better place to play. But why does that mean that someone else must give up their right to be secure from harassment? Are you seriously arguing that Ms. Jester has some sort of legal responsibility (or for that matter, a moral one) to allow others to use her property, and to disturb her privacy, simply because they don't have anywhere else to play?

Yes, if it were me, I would have given them their ball back, and if it became a nuisance I would have talked it over with the parents. If that didn't work, I would have kept the ball as well, but I would also have turned it over to the police upon their appearance and stated my complaints. That would have been the proper way to handle things, and I am sure it started out that way and just got out of hand toward the end.

But you are arguing a dangerous precedent here: whose property is it? Does it belong to Ms. Jester, who has the deed? Or does it belong to everyone, but she is allowed to use it until others need it more? Who decides when this need of others overrules personal property rights? And exactly why would anyone buy property that can be appropriated for the use of others without compensation, at the whim of local police?

You are looking at this situation through rose-colored glasses that blot out any concept of Ms. Jester's rights of ownership and emphasize the desires of the children while ignoring the actions of the parents. If there is nowhere else to play, buy a place for the children or better yet, as you suggested, carpool them to a safe playground, despite any economic pressure that might be involved. If the parents are hurting financially, as much as I can feel for them, it does not follow that they can intrude upon others.


posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 05:24 PM
Ms Jester does not own the street, which is from what I can tell by looking at this satellite image is where the kids are most likely playing. They are not violating her property rights by playing in the street. f course it aint the safest place to be playing either.

The ball just happens to go places where it was not meant to go. These are called accidents. I would wager with you half the people on that street have the same ball land in their yard every week as well. Ms Jester is taking it as a personal attack.

Hopefully after all this rediculousness has passed, Ms Jester wont take these innocent bad throws as personal attacks and the kids wont be playingnear Ms Jesters home, and the parents will gain the sense to talk it out with neighbors rather than bring in the police, unless of course someone refuses to relinquish the property.

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 05:39 PM
It's hard to tell what the exact situation is here, as I'm sure there is a history between these two parties that has not been told. I would never call the police for such an small loss, but an ongoing dispute I cannot be sure.

When I was a kid usually the yards with all the unretrievable balls were the ones with the big nasty dogs.

I found that if you knock on the door and apologize nicely most reasonable people will return your property.

I always wondered what kind of people would want to live in one of those anti-child communities, but now I know why they exist. To me the sound of children playing makes me smile and wish I was a kid again or at least remember how I enjoyed my childhood. I enjoy the interaction with kids I wouldn't have without the balls flying in my garden, so to me a broken plant is worth the smile I get from the kid when I return their ball. I guess some people are so jealous and bitter they can't bear to think somebody's having more fun than they will ever have again in their life. Pretty selfish if you ask me.

This woman sounds like a bitter old goat like a few of the posters are here, she used her power of keeping their property to ratchet up the dispute. If she destroyed their property as some are suggesting - then she should expect a little destruction of her property in return. Funny how the mean people in neighborhoods are usually the ones who get egged, tagged, or cars keyed.

If the kids were really being a nuisance she could of held the property for a couple of hours and then returned it or even called the parents and set a time of return with an explanation. If it became a regular daily affair and she couldn't get the parents to cooperate, she could have filed a complaint. The kids would of been talked to and they would have to figure out a solution. Eventually that could lead to a fine that the parents would have to pay or go to court for. That's what happens when you can't settle things in a reasonable manner. If you're going to take the law into your own hands expect that you might be the one who gets burned.

I see two parties who acted unreasonable and the one who ignored the law after it intervened is paying.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by verylowfrequency]

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 05:55 PM
reply to post by Dock6

Hey, I do, what I gots ta do...

We can't pretend like the legal system is fair anymore or that any one of us isn't a criminal at any given moment, it's designed to be able to cart away anyone it feels like.

Knowing your a criminal and acting accordingly (even if by all normal standards your really not) is just the best way to stay out of the system

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 05:57 PM
reply to post by DYepes

Ms. Jester did not retrieve the ball from the street.

As for accidents, if I am driving down the road, and I 'accidentally' swerve time and time again into a person's yard, doing no damage, but possibly scaring them, would you say they would be wrong to want me to stop?

Accidents happen, yes. But the long history of this dispute suggests they have been happening for some time, with some regularity. That, my friend, is not accidental behavior; it is either intentional merry-making or negligence. And the ball did not 'accidentally' fall on her property. It was propelled there by someone. That someone is responsible for the travel of that ball they put into motion, whether or not it goes where they intended it to go. Otherwise, the earlier example of a ball breaking a window would carry no consequences.


posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 06:00 PM
And for the love of g-d Old ladies have the right to take away anything that comes in thier yard...

we all know this lol

Eve took away the first football right after her first grandson was born... it predates prostitution for crying out loud.

Seriously, it's a basic fact of luife that the elderly will teach kids some respect and ..actually a rite of passage growing up...

the law is moronic being applied to this

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 07:28 PM
reply to post by TheRedneck

Wow !

Impressive post yet again

Patience, logic, reasonableness, ethical, patience, patience and more
patience ... and you express it all very well in language everyone should be able to grasp

.. every time

Your children (if you have them or should you in the future) are fortunate

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 07:32 PM
reply to post by verylowfrequency

' .... old hag. I hope I never get like that when I get old.'

You're testimony to the way you were 'raised'

and also to the genes you inherited

right out here in the open

Oh .. and by the way .... you're getting older by the minute

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 07:34 PM
reply to post by DYepes

You know what you and your attitudes are consigning your child to in the future, don't you ?

'Life' ... the Capital 'L' version ... is going to teach your child all the lessons and values you failed to provide

and Life is a tough teacher

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 08:01 PM

Originally posted by DYepes
I think the only one being a bully here is the elderly woman. What is the difference between her taking the ball because it accidentally landed in her yard, and some punk actually grabbing it from them and walking away with it? Well the old lady had the opportunity to do the right thing.

. . .

The only time I lost a ball playing catch with my friend when I was a young kid, we knocked on the tenants door to ask for it. Noone answered, so I just hopped the fence and got it. pfft, forget losing a ball.

And you had the opportunity to do the right thing, but chose not to. You could have waited until the person got home, and then asked them to return your ball, but instead you trespassed.

I am in my mid-twenties, and am not the stereotypical old neighbor that you might picture shaking their fist in the air whenever someone steps on their lawn. But I understand them. I am getting damn tired of my neighbors (on either side of me) not seeing the problem with their kids entering my backyard. They do it when I am home, so I am sure they do it when I am not. I have spoken to the adults about it, and they don't see anything wrong with it. How are the kids supposed to understand boundaries when their freaking parents don't?!?

If someone gets hurt on your property, whether they are supposed to be there or not, they are going to want to sue you. If my dogs bite someone, I am going to get sued, or even worse, my dogs might get hurt or taken away. And yes, before people get started, I'll come right out and say it... my dogs in their own yard matter more to me than trespassing kids.

DO NOT go on someone else's property, and do not allow your property to go on someone else's property. If it occurs accidentally, apologize profusely and do not let it happen again!

How dare anyone have mercy for this woman honestly. So what if shes old. She was asked to give it back, it is not her property. If she wants to be a petty criminal and victimice innocent kids attempting to have constructive recreational activity, then by all means she can suffer the consequences of being an old petty criminal.

And how dare anyone have mercy for someone who chooses not to have common decency. If you use your property to harass a neighbor, or to just not respect their boundaries and property, then you freaking suck. If you choose to trespass, as you did in your youth, then you must also suffer the consequences of being a petty criminal... a trespasser.

Just hope the person on whose property you are trespassing doesn't feel threatened by your presence. Because then the consequences of your trespassing could result in them feeling the need to defend themselves.

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 08:27 PM
reply to post by Dock6

Thank you, Dock6.

Your children (if you have them or should you in the future) are fortunate

Oh, yes, I have two kids I am extremely proud of. As a matter of fact, this thread brings to mind an episode my son had a little while back at school.

My son came home and told me he had gotten a spanking. When I asked why, he told me he had kicked a ball (in disgust) and it had hit a girl in the head and made her cry. He really thought the teacher was being 'unreasonable' and that he shouldn't be punished.

He did get punished, with my blessing. I also gave him a choice: another paddling at home, or an apology to the girl he hit with the ball. He chose the apology, and in the end (since she was sorta ticked) he would up having to eat an awful lot of crow to apologize to her.

I explained it to him this way: when he kicked the ball, he obviously had no intention to hurt anyone. But he did hurt someone, since once he started that ball in motion, it was no different than a fist. He chose to let it go out of his control, and therefore took responsibility for the path of something he had no control over.

That's how you teach children: by making them face the consequences of their actions when they are young enough for those consequences to not seriously harm them. Not by calling the cops to get even with a mean ol' lady, as a few people (not you of course) have implied. Because somewhere, somehow, some time, someone who is better at manipulation will come along and give them a taste of their own medicine... and medicine later on in life can be very, very unpleasant.


posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 08:40 PM
reply to post by TheRedneck

" That's how you teach children: by making them face the consequences of their actions when they are young enough for those consequences to not seriously harm them. Not by calling the cops to get even with a mean ol' lady ..... Because somewhere, somehow, some time, someone who is better at manipulation will come along and give them a taste of their own medicine... and medicine later on in life can be very, very unpleasant. "


And again ----- this is what a REAL parent sounds like

Children of REAL parents grow to be an asset to their communities

and in turn, become REAL parents themselves

raising MORE real parents

THESE are the people we need MORE of

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 08:59 PM

Originally posted by Dock6

You're testimony to the way you were 'raised'

Since when is the subject of this thread about me, Dock6?

Oh I forgot - that's how you operate here at ATS as this is the second time you've sent you snide little sarcastic remarks my way in the past two weeks instead of arguing the subject matter.

and also to the genes you inherited

And it continues.

Take it out of ATS, Dock6.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by verylowfrequency]

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 09:00 PM
I am 69 yrs old and I had neighbors like those kids, or maybe worse. In one summer I collected 4 high quality baseballs, 2 basketballs, 1 football, and 2 soccer balls. Why so much action in my backyard?? They were trying to injure my two peke pups. Fortunately, my back yard borders a pasture with a few cows and one very skittish black bull. Do I have their missiles??? NOT. I immediately threw them into that pasture and they can get them anytime they want them.
Mrs Jester was justified in not signing that complaint. It is her option. I hope that the judge has more sense than the police and dismisses that bully charge.
We elders deserve a little respect and consideration.
I am boycotting Halloween because of this and hope that all elderly people do the same.

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 09:16 PM
reply to post by verylowfrequency

You either stand behind what you post, or you don't.

Your posts are a reflection of your values and attitudes and are a reflection of those who raised you.

You seem eager to advertise your values and attitudes in public

And you've just done it again

You refer to the elderly woman as an 'old hag '

Says a lot about you

Then you turn your seemingly habitual aggression, anger and unpleasantness on anyone who finds your manner objectionable

Don't waste your time trying to intimidate and dictate to me

when you'd be wiser to ask yourself if you're big enough to dominate the entire world

Are you ?

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 09:26 PM
Back where I come from it is: finders, keepers; losers, weepers.
Possession is nine tenths of the law.
The ball was the womans to do as she saw fit.
The kids need to apologize and rake her yard.

posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 09:32 PM
lol...this reminds me of all of those movies where the kids playing baseball hit it into the evil old ladies' yard and are scared #less to go get it.


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