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89-year-old charged with keeping kids' ball

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posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 04:22 AM
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reply to post by Interestinggg
 


They did summons her, and she refused to sign it .
So she got to take the ride downtown.




posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5
...There is a right/legal way to handle things ...


You DO realize that "right" and "legal" are not synonymous, don't you?

[edit on 21-10-2008 by sir_chancealot]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by Ian McLean
The police asked her to give it back, but she refused. She said she'd give it back on her own time. Then they gave her a ticket, to appear in court, which she refused to sign. So, off to the clink, granny!



Edit to add: newspaper article source:

Blue Ash Police say they didn't want to arrest Jester. Instead, they just wanted her to give the ball back.

Jester says that wasn't going to happen.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


[edit on 21-10-2008 by Ian McLean]


I would have stabbed it with a knife and went "OK, here you go."

Kids today are barely even parented, much less disciplined, by their parents.

Some unguided kids are downright evil, and can make some of their neighbours lives hell by tormenting them for fun.

I'm not saying thats the case for this story, as I don't know the backround. But if this was the case, I'd start popping every ball that flies over the fence, and then handing it back to the kids. They'd get the point pretty quick.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 09:37 AM
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A question for you Defcon if you please (it may sound is somewhat unrelated):

Given the obvious militarization of the police, and the fact that large amounts of ex-military weaponry and gear has found its way into many Police headquarters. Given also the fact that many cops come from a military background. Are contemporary Police equipped to deal with civilian issues, or is it increasing distant from what civilians wish for?

(I'm assuming you'll agree with me on the militarization issue, if not I will dig up some rouces for you)

[edit on 21-10-2008 by Oscitate]

[edit on 21-10-2008 by Oscitate]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 09:57 AM
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The ball should have just had a nasty accident while in the yard (I'm thinking lawn mower), and the shreds then returned.

She could not have been held legally liable for that, and it would have achieved the same end result.

I'm with the old lady on this one, kids and balls can cause misery for these old folks who are just looking for some peace and quiet.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 10:17 AM
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Oh gee, I hate the anal-retentives who prattle on about 'da law' in relation to simple-simon situations like this.

Number one: if you have kids, then RAISE them .. don't park them before the idiot-box from birth until age 17 when you encourage them to go get a driver's licence and kill themselves or someone else as a way of getting them out of your hair.

Number two: RAISING children (as opposed to dragging them up/ignoring them/forcing them to raise themselves based on 'role models' gleaned from the idiot box) means TEACHING your offspring to be considerate citizens

Number three: if you're pretending to be a MAN and FATHER, then try to BEHAVE like one. Whining to police about a BALL your idiot offspring kicked onto SOMEONE ELSE'S property is NOT what being a man and father are all about --- it's petulant, small, stupid waste of police time, effeminate, nasty, laughable, un-neighbourly, IRRESPONSIBLE, weak and a sure way to drag up kids who will be a problem to others lifelong.

Number four: *IF* for some reason you've produced petty tyrants and budding criminals as children and you KNOW they're harrassing elderly citizens, then shape up .. spend more time with your ghastly offspring .. and teach them the facts of life by kicking your power tools, used condoms, left-over hamburgers, empty (or full) beer cans and other objects into their computers screens --- into their lap as they sit slurping garbage in front of their god-tv ---AND into their beds when their asleep --- AND into their FACES --- as OFTEN as it takes UNTIL they work it all out. Ok ?





[edit on 21-10-2008 by Dock6]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by cbass
 


I do not think you are wrong, I am just happy they didn't taser he first before arrest. I think that the kids were trespassing on her property when their football landed in her yard. Calling the police for something like this seems a bit ridiculous at best, downright un-American at worst.

This is another example of the Police state we live in and it's getting worse ever day and if we the People do not react and act soon it will only get worse. I saw a prediction/extrapolation once years ago that said at the rate laws are being passed that one day everyone would work for the jails or be in them. Maybe that day is upon us...



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 10:47 AM
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I guess you folks have all lived by sweet old folks who bake cookies and loved their neighbors. I lived on a street with an old couple across from us that called the police almost every day. It was hilly and the street was the only flat place to play. If a ball went in the old folks yard they would run and keep it or if a kid was fast enough to get to it they would spray them down with the garden hose. They would call if you had guests come in late. They would call for a 'strange car'. They once called the police because I was parked too crooked at the curb to suit them. The old lady would be out at 2 or 3 in the morning in her housecoat sweeping the snow off the walk with a broom as it came down. And if you didn't have your walk clear by daybreak she'd be on the phone calling the city to complain. It's not always the kids who are a pain.
So the kids have no property rights? What if YOU drop something walking past their place? A cell phone or a wallet? Is that different because you are an adult and it should be returned?



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 10:54 AM
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When I was growing up as a kid you tried playing ball so that it wouldn't land on a mean lady or man's lawn,we had a lady we nicknamed the whippin mama,we used to cut through her yard,one poor kid was a slow runner and would always get a whoppin by her lol,and if we told our parents they would tell us"don't cut through her yard",things are getting blown out of porportion these days



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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Incidents like this always serve as a reminder that we are faced with Creeping Totalitarianism - aka, The Totalitarian Tip-Toe. Like a frog in the pot.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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My kids were throwing balls outside. One went over the neighbors fence. They had to go and ask for it nicely, then apologize, then thank the neighbor. They were then instructed by me, to not play near that fence, because if the ball went over again, it was gone.

One went over a few days later. They have not seen it since. Not my problem. They cried to me about it, and I reiterated the rules. Do they play near that fence now?



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by xxpigxx
My kids were throwing balls outside. One went over the neighbors fence. They had to go and ask for it nicely, then apologize, then thank the neighbor. They were then instructed by me, to not play near that fence, because if the ball went over again, it was gone.

One went over a few days later. They have not seen it since. Not my problem. They cried to me about it, and I reiterated the rules. Do they play near that fence now?



Exactly. As a child, I knew my soccer antics annoyed the neighbors. If the ball somehow curved into their turf I knew it was lost. It was a question of manners then. Sure, my parents could have gone next-door, but they didn't, and it was a series of lessons that helped me grow. Respect. There are laws, and then there is common sense.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 11:09 AM
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A couple people above got it EXACTLY Right

I am sorry to say this but...

When the system criminalizes your basic behavior and strips you of your rights, the only recourse you actually have, having been criminalized is to actually become, behave and operate as a criminal

I never would have admitted to possesion of the ball, if it was seen I would have destroyed the ball in some manner and they would have been left with finding some burden of proof that I did it...

You just have no choice because everyone today is a felon, this is social policeing... Even if you have never been convicted given the abysmal overwhelming nature of the law almost as sure as the sun will rise you are or will be able to be found to be in some way a criminal...


So you have to act like one...

I take solace in this by... following the Ten Commandments as best I can, not because I am religous, but because i don't want to utterly loose my moral compass...

But I decided a long time ago... I had been branded, because I like Marijuana as a criminal... that I indeed needed to live my life as one and hide my actions, admit to nothing ever, decieve every chance I get and even use the system to my own ends when possible...


I'm sorry but... the way i cross the street can get ba motorcycle cop up on the sidewalk to interogate me... therefore, I behave at all times as if I am a wanted man...

Feigning senility and denying all knowledge of the ball would have been a good move...

Better yet... faint and sue the police if they continue to poke around...

tie the system up with so much red tape and lawsuits it fails entirely


The law is out of control, the only recourse of the common citizen is to behave as if the police are an enemy occupation and thwart it as soon as it enters your life... always decieve, always work for your own gain, never talk, never admit to anything, fake it, sit there looking like a decent person and conive every single day



Kids play in front of your house? And disrespect your property and a basic tenent of property rights is no longer yours?

Take a slip and fall in front of thier moms house

Cops come to your door?

Deny everything

" I never saw any ball officer... would you like some nice fresh lemonade?"

Then piss in the lemonade



It's not a crime to resist an Enemey occupation.. It's not a sin, your constitution doesn't exist, the UN, Lobbyists, Drug Runners, Corporations and others have hijacked your country, every one is in theory a felon...

Under these circumstances your not doing wrong to become a criminal yourself, it would be like feeling guilty about escapeing slavery...

The criminals..the real ones Can... as simple as this, invade your property, if you stand up and attack an intruder you might go to jail, your property is not your own any more... so if someone invades your house you have to hide the body when your done and do it well...

same with the football... it's not any different

US law has become unconstitutional... there is no need to obey it aside from protecting your arse... the sooner everyone understands that, the easier life will become




Seriously though, I don't mean any of that, I obey the law and do as I'm told for the sake of society... just playing, seriously... I'm not even the guy who holds the Name Mopus Vindictus... just screwing around on my friends account today... seriously, I swear, never thwart the law... The real Mopus would want me to tell you all that, he is a pillar of virtue and I apologize for screwing around and saying such radical things in his name. The guy should run for office..he is as virtuous as any politician in office in RL...



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by cbass
 


To those of you following this thread I added a link to the video of this woman being arrested in the original post.
and here it is again.

This is something that I am sensitive to because I am currently in school to become a police officer. I want to become an officer because I want to do my part to clean up this country. This type of situation could have been handled in so many different ways. Don't believe me? Try asking a poice officer in your neighborhood what he/she would have done.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 11:24 AM
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Theft is the taking of another's property. Trespassing is the unauthorized intrusion onto another's property. I think a case could be made that by allowing their ball to enter Jester's property, the kids were trespassing. By not returning the ball, Jester was guilty of petty theft. That's what the law says.

Reality, however, seldom agrees with legal regulation.

In this case, it would appear to me (who is just as ignorant of the true details of what happened as anyone else on this thread) that both were at fault. The children are responsible for their ball. It did not jump into Jester's yard by itself. Someone had to either kick it or throw it to make it go into the yard.

Jester is responsible for returning the ball, or at least for not not keeping the ball when it lands in her yard as a result of an accident. Children have no real sense of consequences at a young age, and it's not really a big deal for one of them to accidentally let a ball roll into a neighbor's yard. But children often also have no sense of responsibility or compassion, and can consider repeatedly 'allowing' their ball to go into a cranky neighbor's yard worlds of 'fun'. They don't understand that someone else might not consider this fun.

In a perfect world, once the parents realized what was going on, they would have simply told the kids (as many others here have advocated) that if they wanted to keep their ball, keep it out of Jester's yard. They would have apologized to Jester, explained that 'kids will be kids' but also that they were going to let this be a lesson for them. The parents would have done the right thing, Jester would have felt that justice was served, the kids would have learned a valuable lesson about civility and responsibility, and the cops would still be drinking coffee on a speed trap on the outskirts of town.

But it sounds to me like this is a simple neighborhood dispute that got out of control. Kids accidentally let their ball go into Jester's yard. Jester gives it back and tells the kids to be more careful. The kids ignore her and continue to let their ball go into her yard. Jester gets upset and (I am assuming here) asks the parents to control their kids. The parents consider that unreasonable, because the kids aren't bothering anyone else (and they are too busy). Soon the kids decide making 'ol' lady Jester' yell at them to be a lot of fun. Jester gets madder and madder and finally, in an act of desperation, decides to keep the ball to 'teach them a lesson'.

Now the parents have time for the kids, because without that ball to amuse them, the kids will be in their hair. So they call the cops. The cops come out and really consider this a waste of their time, so they just ask Jester to give the ball back. Jester considers this a bad thing, since it won't teach the kids anything except how easy it is to torment her, so she tries to tell the cops what happened before this incident. But the cops don't care; there's a sale at Dunkin Donuts and they're going to be late. So Jester refuses to cooperate. now the cops have to enforce the idea that they are in charge, so they giver her a ticket. Jester thinks this is silly and refuses to sign it. So to prove they are in charge, the cops now have to take her into custody.

Now, the cops feel they have done their 'duty' by arresting a little old lady with a big mouth, but they missed the donut sale. Jester feels like there is no justice. The parents think Jester is a little daft because she didn't just give the ball back. And the kids have learned a valuable lesson: do whatever you want, but always do it so the law is on your side.


And we wonder why this nation is so screwed up...

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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I think the only one being a bully here is the elderly woman. What is the difference between her taking the ball because it accidentally landed in her yard, and some punk actually grabbing it from them and walking away with it? Well the old lady had the opportunity to do the right thing.

Growing up my house was right next to a private high school, the soccer team practices in the field right behind my house. They routinely lost balls over the fence. I would always do the right thing and give the property back.

I hope this bitter old woman is forced to write a letter of apology. She probably wanted to steal the ball and give it to her own grandchild or great grandchild.

I have never known anyone who has not simply just given back a ball that was accidently dropped in their property. Even my grandmother has given back a football once or twice when the kids in the alley behind them were tossing it around playing catch. WTF is the big deal?

The only time I lost a ball playing catch with my friend when I was a young kid, we knocked on the tenants door to ask for it. Noone answered, so I just hopped the fence and got it. pfft, forget losing a ball.

I dont agree with using police powers initially, but if even after I as a parent came to her home and kindly requested the return of our legally purchased property that my kid uses to spend time outside and not in front of the idiot box, and she still didnt give it back. Then by all means, you will be talking to an officer for petty theft.

How dare anyone have mercy for this woman honestly. So what if shes old. She was asked to give it back, it is not her property. If she wants to be a petty criminal and victimice innocent kids attempting to have constructive recreational activity, then by all means she can suffer the consequences of being an old petty criminal.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 



Wow .. what a post ! Starred !

Didn't know you harboured such interesting theories



Your post made me think

More ... it gave me ideas



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by DYepes
 



Hi there


Have you read my post (above)


It was with people like you in mind that I wrote it



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Perfect assesment of the situation.
I also agree with mopusvindictus that in this day and age we all have to (if you're smart) behave as a wanted man and also, manipulate the system to work FOR you instead of against you. ie: Do not admitt to having the ball or returning the ball with a huge gash in it. You have to be sneaky (unfortunately) in order to get justice alot of times.

I am not above outright,boldface lying to a cop if it will incriminate and get someone arrested who should be arrested or vice versa, to keep from getting arrested. Alot of people are afraid to ever lie to a cop.B.S. If it will serve your purpose, absolutley lie.LIE with a capital "L". Till the cows come home. They are only people. They are not workiong for your best intrests. They are looking for enough of a reason to throw your arse in jail.
Do not give it to them.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by DYepes
What is the difference between her taking the ball because it accidentally landed in her yard, and some punk actually grabbing it from them and walking away with it?


We agree to disagree, but I can see and respect your side of the "fence" (terrible pun, sorry). I quoted a sample I disagree a little more strongly with. There is a difference the way I see it. Simply because the ball was in her territory (to me, that is a fundamental difference although you mention it in the same breath as a thief in your metaphor)

The rest of course is pure speculation on both sides. Niether of us can know what the underlying pressures were. Perhaps she is, as you claim a grumpy ol' wench. Then again perhaps the ball landed frequently and intrusively upon her property and this was the straw which broke the camel's back.



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