would other countries help us?

Originally posted by FerTheBetter
if for some reason the U.S. government were to turn its military on its own people, would countries around the world come to help U.S. civilians? or would they just sit back and do nothing? and if the U.S. govt. told them to not give aid to the U.S civilians would they? i just thought of this question and id like to hear what other people think

I personally do not think Military Officers would carry out orders to harm Americans without just cause. Even if they did I do not think many soldiers would remain loyal to corrupt government. We could argue over just cause but those Americans targeted by a government would have had to do something dam serious to persuade soldiers to harm their own. Our society is far too aware these days to have soldiers in large numbers to blindly follow a dictator.

Just my opinion.

The US is a wierd case. If your gun ownership was not as it was, it would be the usual condemnations with impossibly difficult sanctions to harm your rulers but not you. I was against Iraq 2003, so personally if at my gift, would not try an invasion.
What I think is stange about you is that you've all got guns. Loads of you simply would not accept dictatorship and I would anticipate a blood bath and hence have emergency levels of medical supplies ready.

You have quite a conondrum with this scenario. I think that for one, no, they will not help unless told to do so by the govt. In other words, if they did, they too would be fighting against us, after all, in the govts. eyes, we are terrorists and that's how they will paint us around the globe.

Secondly, even if they did help us, I personally would not want their brand of help. Because odds are, that foreign government would probably like to take charge of the country after the fighting is done, and then we'd be stuck with yet another dictatorial government.

So I say I'd rather it was a "no go" and instead we, the proletariat, fought our fight and pray we win, or at least die as free men instead of dieing as slaves.

Oh boy, this is a tough one. No, I do not think governments would help us, mostly out of fear. I would like to believe citizens of other countries would at least hold protests. I can see why no one likes us, but seriously...it is our government, not the people.

I can see it now, the red-necks that are capturing Mexicans crossing the border will be the first to try and flee into Mexico...and there will be swarms of Mexicans rounding them up and saying "Sorry, we are not welcome when we need it, than neither are you."

reply to post by Symer


I had apologized prior for the way I phrased that and ask only that you please beg my pardon for what I view as Phrased Appropriately American Involvement in foreign wars and situations we never had any place being involved with in from the onset

IF you can forgive the way I came off and take a moment to really look at the whole picture, step outside yourself and look beyond the debacle that is our previous administration.

You could see that this entire situation for Us as American people has come about from our involvement in WW2

I'm not going to be ignorant and say, that there wee not forces in America that got involved in that war for reasons of power and money.

But it would be equally ignorant to say that any of this would be going on right now if we weren't drawn into political situations that arose because of what went on in EUROPE

The Military Industrial complex has the power it does, to flex not just globally but Against US who get insulted everyday because of the devastation in Europe after WW2, the UN exists in part because of that war, our position in on the security council is there because of WW2, the Cold War and all the money we burned away happened because of it, our involvement in Nam and Korea in part due to those events... and NATO, us in a position to arm against Russia and No Internal Military of any value in Europe to oppose it...

all because of what Europe did and the war that was fought between 1939 and 1945

and frankly, yes we have a crappy education system now, we fought a cold war to defend Europe for... almost 50 Years, we spent ridiculous amounts of our resources for Europe, we have a Military completely sucking up tons and tons of the American tax payers dollars

and still, a decade after the end of the cold war, Europe alone even as an EU couldn't stand up to Russia if it chose to invade and...the last time it moved west was Under 60 days ago


and what does Europe actually do, do Europeans defend us No...it's CONSTANT Insults and regular opposition

so is that hard hard to understand why I would give a Vehement NO to would Europeans Help us against the Tyrants that were created Defending Europe NO it is not...

If you want to bash America... do the one thing that would Help Us, do the thing that your too greedy to do

Stand up and get your nations to withdraw from Nato

Do IT

Prove me wrong,

Form that EU army, spend you tax dollars to build it, cut that money from your education systems, cut that money from your health care and let us as Citizens not our Military but as a People, be free from the Burden of being the only ones capable of standing down the Russians

The other monster power created by your insane war on your continent

Europeans do Nothing more than bash America... come out from Under the nuclear umbrella, build that Navy, stand on your own

The excuse of the Money we spent all these years to defend Europe through decades of Russian occupation of East Germany, Invasions into eastern Europe...

This was the tool they used to create the monstrosity that is our Military, that owns us, that eats a trillion US dollars every year

So WOULD Europe help US... NO, because you Can, right now with out ever sending a man over even...

You can send us home... you can drop out and end Nato

You can decide what to do in the Middle East ENGLAND is responsible for the creation of Isreal another ball in our lap...in YOUR Hemisphere

Europe is threatened perhaps by Islam not us... it's your decision...

why are we in any of these places why is my life sucked into all this war...

When America has no Natural Enemy in our sphere of Influence?

A Failure of the people of Europe to cooperate for the first hald of the previous century, your wars and your current inability or unwillingness to pick up the sword in your won defense

And, my people have died for yours not vice versa, not ever beyond some meager and unsupported support in wars that are NOT in our hemisphere.

The REALITY, we are 95% of Nato, the rest all of Europe is nothing more than a token gesture and even Russia... isn't actually our problem it's yours...

and again, YES, our leaders have taken advantage of it... agreed, but WE suffer for it as much as any body and all that is done is that insults fly.. at us

Trust me, the one thing we can not and will not do... If Europe sends us packing, we will not stay by force

So do it

But you wont because in the end it's easier if it's us involved, our money our social programs gutted while Europeans enjoy, less work hrs, better quality of life and better social programs

and that is IT, all of it, Europe is why America has this kind of power, because you wont actually defend yourselves and if we left and Russia came rolling Just like you did with Germany and just like you did when it was your lives... the call for our lives will come...

and Europeans sit and insult Americans, constantly while we pay for decades for your defense

Deal with Russia, Deal with Israel send us HOME... no one is on our coast or borders to bother us, we don't LIKE our LEADERS Either

Deal with the reality that YOU not US are squeezed between Russia and Islam

You need a defense, you need to help us, for once in a real way in all these years, our People, end the spending and the rationalization for it, tell America and do it with the ability to defend yourselves that...we aren't needed as the policeman any more

Because the Reality is, a similar situation exists with japan, another country that sits next to China and Russia with a Great Economy and a Great quality of life...

and a constitution that says it can't have an army lol

We are still in a way paying, reparations...to LOL Germany and Japan for WW2 and we didn't want to be in either fight...

Share the expense, dis empower the USA's Military need

and all this goes away... for US the American People


So, would you help US the people of America? NO you refuse to everyday, we are broke, overworked, hate our government too and you laugh and throw insults and have no real military of your own... not conventionally, not one that could stand against Russia

Help us...please do, send us home...

Do the thing that we can not do with out a revolution, stop allowing it, stop being a part of it, defend yourselves and get us out of the picture let us return to being Americans again.

Do it NOW before there is no America... but I know it won't happen, it's just to easy on the average European this way, it won't happen until it's too late, exactly how Hitler happened to your continent

reply to post by Merriman Weir


People can talk all they want about assassinations, hasn't happened, it's weeks away...

waves of immigration doesn't compare to a Nation comprised of Immigrants only...

The basis of our culture is other cultures, even the Caucasian base is almost Half Irish, a people you in England have been very nice too over the centuries I might add...

and the point I made was London doesn't even come close to a large American city in terms of diversity and it is among the best the world has to offer if not the best.

Let me say this strongly, there is more culture and diversity In America in most cities on any given block than most nations worldwide have in their capitals

All you see is the FEAR Mongering in our media and it's the result of one miserable corrupt administration, our news tells nothing of the real story...

Mexicans... where is the real protest in America? my city is Half Mexican I have never had a conflict with a Mexican I have never witnessed a conflict with Mexicans

Blacks? A perception, as I said my city 43% white Growing up, there are issues, mainly they stem from within the community not due to racism, the reality is, there is still resentment but even so...and given the numbers of Black on White hate crimes in actuality being 10 -1 and that DOJ stat not my own... I have since the 90's not experienced a problem with the issue.... there was a point I think where it was tenser, but... like every thing else we work it out...

Look no rockets are falling on this country

No race war is imminent

No borders threaten us

Very few of us like this past and I am already saying past administrations choices...

But, there is no tension in our streets

Our money is soaked up, handling problems we should not be involved with...

As above, it's time this EU stepped up and took our place in the region.

It's overdue, our internal issues, anything you can throw at me ..it comes down to money when we spend a trillion a year on the Military

There is this thing called Nato that has us there doing a job...that rightfully belongs in the hands and pocket books of Europeans not mine...


Yes are leaders are Power mad now, yes... we know, yes, we have issues because of it...

so stand up and stop America bashing... a long as your a member of Nato, our lives stink... Send this government home... where it belongs

Culture?

What Culture as long as we work longer hrs and for a lesser quality of life and educational system, if you don't like it, change it...

Russia is out of Germany for almost 2 decades now...

Wheres the German Army?

Why are we at risk of war with China, Japans Nemesis and Russia Your nemesis or fighting over Israel, England's Creation or going in for Kuwait or handling Iran for the Saudis?

That's Europe's back yard... last tie I looked at a map, Iranian Missiles can hit you, not us, NK's Missiles threaten Japan not us...

I again apologize for the first words...

But most of us are as sick of these involvements as you are and we Live the pain of the money it all costs and we burn our lives in this nonsense and our Government is far too empowered...

Help America...

Europe and Japan Can...

Let WW2 End and handle the job, send us packing

And hey, sorry to come off harsh at first there, my reaction to "Would Europeans help us"

It's just strong because...you don't, you know our Military is too strong, you know we are involved where we don't belong...

and in the end, If Europe and Japan simply... let WW2 end, closed Nato and formed a EU army

Our problems would end...

we have no recourse or reason to be in these regions without European Leaders support, these bases, the missile systems, Nato... Even the Middle East. England created Israel, the Holocaust was a European Issue

Germany needs to do something, england needs to settle this not US as the defacto Military Arm of Europe

I'd say the Saudis do this too... "Our American Slaves" I believe was the term used by a Saudi prince once...

and we are slaves of Europe and Japan too...

and now with all that power, literally given to them It's My fault these birds have lost control?

Close the bases!!!

Tell us to get out of the Mediterranean

Japan, Build an Army, stand up to China Support Taiwan if you choose

It's NOT My hemisphere, it's not my borders , but my money and life


I can put this in the simplest terms possible

Power, it's like any addiction and yeah our leaders and some, certainly not all, some of our people are hooked

But Europe is the co dependent That FEEDS the addiction, so is Japan and Saudi Arabia and Israel and others...

We might be the addict

and yes, the addiction makes us UGLY

But Primarily Europe Enables the addiction and your equally to blame...

So How could I ever respond to YES Europe would help us when you feed us the drug?

Your step in step in treaty with...all of this and you know, it's making us pour, it's causing class division, our schools need money our arts aren't funded

You, watch for the cops while Our leaders buy the Crack, never assuming any guilt, never making the purchase the gestures are token, safe, barely involved

If you were friends, you'd say no... the bases would close, the Mediterranean would close, the bombers would have no where to land

The world, Not America would have saved Kuwait, Eastern Europe would not have been our Military but yours and we would have only token representation

But why is there any inter dependence ever... Need, we fulfill a European need just like the wife of a drug addict...your AFRAID to stand alone, just make fun of us like your superior, but we are used for Security

















[edit on 27-10-2008 by mopusvindictus]

Yeah , clearly the US has a holy government , that helps everyone with selflesness and Europe and the rest of the world are stupid , esgoistical beings etc.

Seriously , as was said before , the US would never have done anything , were there not any interest in game. And I don't mean to say that american people were the ones that had that interest in mind , you most surely had not , your leaders did though , and many people believe they were "helping" , because that is what they were told.

The money system is destroying the world , there are sick bastards out there that are laughing at your kind of posts , that bring disunity among the people.That is exactly what they want and what keeps us "entertained" while they are controlling the world.

The illusion that was built is weak , and should be able to be overthrown if many people understand how our money system works. most don't even have a clue.

Anyone who thinks the rest of the world should help the American people if their government turns on them should look at Iraq, and what America has done to that country.

Have you ever tried to do anything for the people there? Do you know how good their society was before you attacked, and how ruined it is now? Do you have any idea how much of the population has been killed and injured?
Have you ever used Google to find out what you have done to Fallujah?

Check it out properly, and ask yourself if other people should do to you what you have done to Iraq.

How many people here realise that much of the reason for invading Iraq was to protect the American standard of living by preventing Saddam selling oil for Euros? And now Iran has started doing the same so they must be demonised and attacked. All you people who want help from the rest of the world, have you been working to stop America attacking us?

Look at the history of the Philippine war. America has always fought to dominate and bleed dry other countries. Look at the high standard of living you have enjoyed for so long, believing it is your God-given right for being superior people in a superior country. Sorry, it has come from theft and murder, your country has always been run by criminals.

Americans are brainwashed from birth by the media, by the pro America texts in schools. Your democracy is as fraudulent as your good will. Your innovativeness is shown up for the mirage it is by your hopes that someone else will clean up your mess. And your feted freedom of speech is all too easily confined to "free speech zones."

Originally posted by Kailassa
Anyone who thinks the rest of the world should help the American people if their government turns on them should look at Iraq, and what America has done to that country.

Have you ever tried to do anything for the people there? Do you know how good their society was before you attacked, and how ruined it is now? Do you have any idea how much of the population has been killed and injured?
Have you ever used Google to find out what you have done to Fallujah?

Ummm...well...yes actually. A lot of us do protest the war, and if you go to the protests, they are more than just "Bring our Troops Home Safe." Thats all the media shows because thats all the media cares about. They don't show all of the "Stop Terrorizing Iraq" signs because the media mentality is that it won't sell to as many people. Do you honestly believe we had ANY say whether to go to war or not?

You are speaking to us like we are stupid and ignorant. Have you forgotten what site you are on? Do you not think we can see whats going on? We know it's bad...real bad.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by goldbomb444]

[edit on 27-10-2008 by goldbomb444]

reply to post by goldbomb444

Good to see you do care.

If America's citizens in the future are ever treated like Iraqi citizens are now, I'll be happy to do for you just as you have done for the Iraqis.
I'll investigate, make banners, and wave them as I join a crowd of marching protesters.

Originally posted by Kailassa
reply to post by goldbomb444

Good to see you do care.

If America's citizens in the future are ever treated like Iraqi citizens are now, I'll be happy to do for you just as you have done for the Iraqis.
I'll investigate, make banners, and wave them as I join a crowd of marching protesters.

And honestly that is all I would expect you or anyone else to do. What should I do to help the Iraq citizens...fly to Iraq and fight the US military? that is simply not possible, nor would it help if it was possible.

Honestly i doubt other countries would help..

Now worst cae senerio,, the UN gets called in to police the USA.. it would be the entire world against the USA citizens..

I would hope that the guard members and army nave marines would remember the protect against all enemies foreign and domestic clause in there oath.. However we did have brothers killing brothers during the civil war.. could happen again.

However I hope humanity is above this .. but than again were over in Iraq killing other humans.. so I have very little faith in the human race.

reply to post by Roufas


If you had bothered to read my post, you would have noticed the multiple places where I blatantly state that yes, when invited the USA's government did indeed do so with selfish reasons...

I am harshly critical of this government in every way possible.

And agree with your words.

None of that changes the FACT

That these people were empowered by WW2 and a European Conflict

and what you offer as a suggestion

Is to REVOLT

More American Lives to deal with a situation we as the PEOPLE of the USA got into Bailing out Europe from not 1 BUT 3 Conflicts

Hitler

The USSR

and

Now Islam

What you are doing is passing the buck and refusing to answer the simple question

Why then does Europe Remain in Nato and Allow us to do your Dirty Work

I state plainly and so does almost every American in here we do not like our Government

Europe has a myriad of ways to NON VIOLENTLY help our situation

What you offer in return is that yet more of us should Overthrow the Govt and surely many would die in the process

I hear complaints of our Actions in War, yet YOU supply the bases to launch the attacks

You never oppose us in the UN or rarely

Your Members of Nato

and Never once has this govt been sanctioned


So Again

What is Europe doing to Help

The clear answer is nothing that is not in your self Interests

reply to post by Kailassa


Last I checked the European standard of living was higher than ors, the nations mainly ranked higher rankings in education, enjoy shorter work hours, health care and longer vacation periods a Month in Many cases where for many Americans vacation time is not an option and hasn't been for a long time.

As Millions of Americans foreclose, I must ask, where is this standard of living?


As far as Iraq goes, Turkey will be a Full member of the EU as soon as 2013 has always been a member of the European Community and Nato

So Iraq on the borders of Turkey is a European problem as was the Invasion of Kuwait

Ramble all you want about American Oil profiteering

Europe did no more to help the Kurds, the people being gassed by Saddam or address a Dictator on their border any more than they did in the former Yugoslavia

or

for that Fact when Hitler Invaded Poland

or When the Russians stormed through Czechoslovakia


This is not an isolated incident but a repeated European process of ignoring conflicts on it's borders until it is too late and then sending for the cavalry

and I don't think I even need to go into... American Economic Issues and the European banker factors that have plagued my country since it's inception.

If the way we handled Iraq was so awful, then perhaps I am simply right

ad it is High Time Europe spent it's own money on defense and handle the problems both within it's borders and on it's borders...

I agree, America made an awful mess of things, close our bases, send us home and handle it yourselves

Or is... our culture less blood more worthy to spill than your own?

What I find most amusing is how, the only thing many Europeans seem to know anymore about America is simply media originated thoughts and behaviors as we are portrayed.

Simplistic attacks about culture when we are nation literally of all cultures, simplistic attacks about the people of Iraq... when we used European bases to conduct the ability to lead the war.

It is almost as if LOL we had threatened Europe into doing so not been asked to step in during the first Gulf War, as If we would have , lol, lol Invaded Europe if they didn't comply with our demands

For people who complain we do not stand up to our leaders I see very little of that in Europe as your leaders sign off on every one of little moronic adventures to foreign lands.

and for those who complain of our lack of culture it sure seems apparent the MSM news is adored over in Europe because I see little of any understanding of America being shown that does not come off the nightly news...

Perhaps you think the MSM in Europe is much more honest than our own and doesn't promote agendas?

Gringo's???? We dont need no stinking Gringo's. Vamanos!

Just become a Mexican the U.S. government would just put you to work in construction if you are caught, cause all us Latinos are hard workers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And

No One will star these posts LOL

because the sad truth is

Few Americans will give up the power of being the leader of Nato

and

Few Europeans will sanction something as simple as give us the boot


But really for European complainer and American complainers alike

The solution is radical but simple, Europe... Kick the USA out of Nato and send our boys home, there is nothing America could do about and Japan Kick us off the Islands

and stand Up to Russia and NK and Islam

Yourselves...

Do it, you hate us that badly, we are that inept, our govt stinks

All you have to do is wash your hands of the blood money, Pay the taxes, build an EU army address your won regional conflicts together as the Unified, Wise, Politically Savy, hardworking, determined, highly educated, cultured people you claim to be...

Or is that

UNITED

Front, that mockery of a United States Called the EU

Not really as accepting and tolerant and capable as working as an integrated Unit as it CLAIMS to be?

For all that talk of culture and tolerance

Is it possible that Europeans simply can't actually yet trust each other to have a United Army, without Americans calling the shots?



NATO

North Atlantic Treaty

What exactly are we united in defense of in the North Atlantic?

The Rise of Atlantis?

The Menace of Iceland?

Perhaps the Bahamas has an NWO Plot waiting in the wings?


Or really, does Nato Exist and only existed to keep Russia from storming into Europe and to Keep the Middle east in line?

Because certainly... Europe needs the Oil more than the North American continent does, does it not?

Not completely comfortable are your leaders with Russia holding those cards are They?



Europeans scream about war for oil, as your leaders open the Mediterranean to our ships, your nations base our bombers and missile systems

and you scream

"no war for oil"

Yet, very little of that Oil by the numbers flows to us...

It goes to India

and

It goes to China

and oh yes

In Europe your steering wheels are covered in the blood from that OIL

Yet CANADA supplies most of our oil



So who do we keep the supply lines open for?

Sure... we make some money off the supply... but after all we are ...PAID soldiers to supply it... if you watch who Drinks that Blood

It's not us, not the American people

And, the American people get, no profit from any of this... we get, higher prices at the Pump and Mortgage crisis

and our kids die too...

While you who critique, pay little taxes for a Military and actually consume the oil we fight for...


Isn't it time real address was given by Europeans to how corrupt your leaders and bankers really are, how many Americans have died defending Europe while you pay no Taxes for a Military and rant and rave about your culture and your freedoms

freedoms that once were ours

Before our country became run by a Military Industrial Complex fighting for those freedoms for you

I have to wonder


With all this talk about Barack Obama and a Crisis and needing the faith of the American People... decisions Americans might not like


Maybe... Maybe I have been wrong... he talks of bring us home from Iraq, The Israelis feel he will not support them...

Maybe what this is all about goes beyond the Economic policies of his I fear (only because of the economic circumstances)

Maybe, just maybe... a big part of the change WILL BE, walking away from those who draw us into these wars...

Maybe Nato is already a done deal for us, maybe we will not be kissing European banker rear end anymore?


Because, in reality, 4-5 Billion a week back in the USA would be quite a bit of moolah to spread around after all...