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31,573 Alien Civilizations in our Galaxy

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posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
If you accept that there is life out there; the next question is how much of it is intelligent and how many have figured out how to travel hundreds/thousands/millions of light years to visit others? If any? I'd say that narrows it down a bit.


There's currently no way to know... We just don't have the understanding of any other known life-bearing planets other than earth.

Have any of the undiscovered alien races, the capability of faster-than-light travel? Again, there's no way to tell, but we know that there are beings with those capabilities.

Alot of the purported technology is theoretically possible. Human civilization started roughly 7000 years ago. Consisting of:

Agriculture
Settlement in cities
Recognisable styles of artistic expression
Centralised government
Formalised code of laws
Some basic form of written language

The universe is about 13 or 14 billion years old. Were at 7000 years.

What about civilizations that have been in existance for longer, like say millions or perhaps even billions of years. It might be kind of hard to imagine how developed a civilization would have become throughout millions of years of time. We know that they are out there. And obviously we're not going to be the ones who make first contact. Until then we can keep guessing


Don't jump to the conclusion that there is no life out there with FTL travel because we haven't been publicly contacted at this time.




posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 01:03 AM
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posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by mystiq
 


You have always stated in another forum that maybe I should butt out and leave your fantasy world if I don't believe. Should you not do the same when it comes to a rational and logical conversation instead of jumping in with wild declarations of life here without evidence. As for your being a contactee...I am pretty sure psychology will find out what is affecting your mental state and will find a cure for it. I'm not being mean...I am just stating that aliens taking you are not the only answer...you just refuse to look at the alternative explainations for them and have chosen to believe the extraordinary rather than the more logical explainations.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by riggs2099]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 01:15 AM
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Originally posted by Nohup

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
If there is a G-d he repeated everything in creation adinfinitum so why would there be this ONE exception to the rule?


Not everything is repeated or duplicated. For instance, there are nearly 7 billion people on Earth. That's a lot of people. But how many of you are there? Just the one. So, that's undeniable proof that there are plenty of unique things in the universe. And maybe a planet with life on it is one of those unique things.


ahhhh you see i hate to say this but I'd disagree with that statement...

Sadly as much of a unique bird as I happen to be... there are more of me out there...

I have always noticed how easy it is to break people down into types, personality and appearance...

Really and truthfully while my personal experiences to a degree give me some uniqueness... by appearance and personality type...

well...

somewhere out there, are a handful of guys that like paranormal and sci fi have brown hair and blue eyes are 6 ft tall share similar or identical features to me and barely distinguishable traits.

Saddam and LIL kimhave how many body doubles?

and I'd say as people go they are pretty unique

I have to disagree.. maybe not exactly, but in ralation to the fractal nature of everything, peoples basic types, looks and personality combine to repeat all the time... not quite as unique as we all like to think...

In fact I knew a guy at my college that i was friends with who got his arse handed to him by some guys who didnt believe he wasn't me who wanted to kick my arse lol

true story... they couldn't tell us apart



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


It would be a whole long debate and another thread to go into how people came to America, but from everything I have seen there were multiple migrations and from the genetic research I have seen posted... some of those it seems came by sea, long before columbus

But conjecture and debate aside on what if's

I'd like to address some points about Mars...

You make an interesting statement or 2

1 "I don't see what the purpose is"

and

2 " why not the surface "


NO 2 First

If there is one thing about life on Earth that is an Anomoly... it would be that we dwell on the surface

When we look at space we see...the surfaces of planets because that is where we live

But that's not the reality... the surface..is like standing on the outside of a spaceship in flight, the odds of anything lasting very long on the surface of any small planet is probably really bad, we know this from the number of mass extinctions our planet has suffered

Even on earth... if you add up organisms, most of them live by number, under the surface, partially under the surface or under the water or spend much of thier time under the surface... even on our own planet we are really the exception not the rule.

the higher up you are... the more dangerous survival becomes...even to predators, out in the open is... dangerous.

Asteroids, comets, the sun, predators in an open environment... weather and more... it's a shooting gallery up here

Life that survives almost assuredly lives under shelter

We say the moon is not inhabited? How would we know if we look at it from the Shell only?

It's a solid ball of material but not large enough to have a true core.. anything could live inside it in any piockets, maybe there is a small ocean somewhere in there and some radioactive materials and near the center it's warm and there is fungus and bacteria growing in that water...completely possible


Now Take a Planet like Mars...

surface...you mention less sunlight... Yes but no shielding via atmosphere... and cold

But go down 20 feet or more and... same exact climate as Earth in places.., atmosphere would be retained underground, water is present it will melt as you achieve pressure depth and warmth

How do I know there are caves?

The planet was once active, vulcanism... it was hot... as the planet cooled it would have left lava tubes... I climb them here on Earth all the time, I just did the one in Flagstaff this past weekend again...

the Main reason though is water, there is an ocean of water trapped in the surface... you increase depth and pressure that water is going to melt and run... down into Mars...

There is simply no way possible that as you go to depthj and increase pressure the bottom layers of that water don't run... scientifically impossible for them not to... the planet may not be active like Earth but certainly via pressure at some point deep enough there is magma and the depth for melt would not be very deep at all given any internal heating what so ever

So you have to have, rivers running from the permafrost into the depths of Mars, it just freezes again as it heats to steam before it would reach the surface...

add to the water and the lava tubes the cooling of the crust and fracturing as the planet shrank as it cooled... yet another reason there should be caves...

AND there is no plate activity, so ...things are going to settle and leave chambers, pockets of gas will be traped, no plate tectonics to colapse chambers... so the planet has to be litterered with far more caves than the Earth is... Not so differenent than it having a much larger vocano than any mountain on Earth and a much deeper longer canyon than the grand canyon... we will find I am sure that Martian Caverns are... far more extensive and numerous than on Earth

Just as an Example

OLYMPUS MONS

the volcano is huge and dormant for how long?

Inside Olympus Mons you could house, probably all of the population of America... the main Lava tube itself must be enourmous, the number of passages and lave tubes would be staggering, the thing is gigantic and if it was a volcano it HAS to have... HUGE Chambers where the Lave once flowed

How would I survve on Mars..be assured of finding caves and ice and temperatures at the right depth I could live in...

Onlympus Mons would be my first shot at a place I could...breath or, at the very least exract air and would have a volume of space, gas and water in side it large enough that it would support life and under enough Pressure... to create an eco system unexposed to the harsh outer environment...

almost certainly inactive or not... there is still some minor heat deep in the interior that rises from inside the depths of the planet

Why Caves on Mars to me as a certainty... why not assume life would be on the surface?

Because Most likely...unless life had evolved on Mars on it's own... the Most likely scenario for life on Mars would be seeded from Earth...

and what Life from Earth do we know could survive the journey?

Extremophiles, from under the ocean, or from inside volcanoes or from deep in the Earth... these are the organisms that could survive on a rock blown off the planet from an impact...

and that's where they live on earth...and that's where they would survive on Mars when they came to rest... impacted into the ground, thats the kind of life from... deep under our soil...and slamed deep into Martian soil that would make that journey and thaw out and reproduce...

so my assumption is based on... life there having made it from Earth... long ago and taking hold in the few environments that are a match... and they are all extremeophille underground environments... inside volcanos, the percholate deserts in Peru, under the Antartic, from deep in the Earths Crust... these critters live in places that are a match for the Martian environment... and can survive the journey for a few hundred years frozen in a rock with no issues


Now I know of 2..maybe 3 or 4 places in the solar system where life and environments can match those more extreme environments on Earth... Europa would be another under the Ice in the Ocean... Thermal vents given Jupiters gravitational pull is a a 99.9 % likely hood...

Extremophilles from Earth,,could make that Journey and take hold...

so I am working with what I know... organisms from Earth that can last thousands of years in space and survive in what we would consider very hostile environments

We Know... the earth has been slammed in massive ways, many, many times, including the potential impact that might have formed the Moon! which would have if any basic life was presnet showered the solar system... and beyond with... organisms from our planet



Now you ask WHY?

#1 Resources
#2 Population...

we can't stay here forever....

life inside Olympus Mons might sound like a nightmare for some lol... but, I think I could dig it, the hard life in a way as a pioneeer, vs... slavery on an over populated Earth...

It would be... for me a more vital reason to live...the sake of survival and exploration than... selling crap on the Internet is... (that what I do lol)

I guess, some of us are just born to be explorers and just never feel comfortable sitting still

You refer to it as ..."a suicide mission" for me it would be a mission of survival... it just registers in me somewhere as... a better way to live

and

a single asteroid haul is worth about 17 trillion in Platinum...

lol, if the whole exploration kick isn't your bag, I understand... but 1 asteroid could pay off the entire US debt

Ample reason to stop spending more money fighting moronic wars than it would cost to build a shuttle fleet and start the mines going...

the Moon alone is probably worth enough to make a nation that mines it rich for centuries upon centuries...

precious metals, and what else we can only guess at... energy source? solar power beamed back to earth? what else? genetic research done in zero G, tourism...

lots of money to be made in space











[edit on 21-10-2008 by mopusvindictus]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 02:19 AM
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reply to post by riggs2099
 


You do not present logical arguments. You constantly say the same thing on the same agenda in every thread. But you know what, I'd rather just ignore you. I've never known what your problem is but its obviously something you own. I'm not willing to wear it however.

This prediction of probability for a largely populated galaxy just provides the background for what many people are going through.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 02:22 AM
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reply to post by mystiq
 


My problem is that you people make claims that cannot be valided. Out of all these so-called abductions why has there never been any evidence left...not even trace evidence.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 03:37 AM
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**Attention**
Please stay On-Topic

Discussing "X number of Alien CIVILIZATIONS in our GALAXY"

1. We are not discussing Microscopic Life (except as it leads to number of Alien CIVILIZATIONS in our GALAXY);
2. We are not discussing ridiculing someone, or beating someone up;
3. We are not discussing Life in the Universe. If you wish to go deeply into that START YOUR OWN THREAD;
4. We are not going into ad homineum attacks on your neighbor;
5. Finally remember there is only 'PROOF' in mathematics. In other disciplines there are theories. Post your THEORY;
6. If you are going to post facts or quote off-site, please use 'ex' tags and link your source, and post a few sentences, not the WHOLE article.

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.
Mod Edit: External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.
Mod Edit: No Quote/Plagiarism – Please Review This Link.


Tools:
o Original Paper: (PDF - need Adobe Acrobat)
A Numerical Test bed for Hypotheses of
Extraterrestrial Life and Intelligence

Duncan H. Forgan

o Calculator:
Drake Equation on-line calculator


Thank you for your contributions, and happy posting.

-Badge01
Forum Moderator









[edit on 21/10/2008 by Badge01]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 04:19 AM
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OOPS

[edit on 21-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 04:24 AM
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For the Universe, the galaxies are our small representative volumes, and there are something like 10^11 to 10^12 stars in our galaxy, and there are perhaps something like 10^11 or 10^12 galaxies.

With this simple calculation you get something like 10^22 to 10^24 stars in the Universe. This is only a rough number, as obviously not all galaxies are the same, just like on a beach the depth of sand will not be the same in different places.


How many Stars are there in the Universe?

Let's take a moment to just be in awe.


Astronomers announced today that there are 70 sextillion stars in the visible universe, or some 70 thousand million million million. That's a 7 followed by 22 zeros.


70 Sextillion Stars

70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Stars.

Now what's the theory as to how many planets on average per Star?


[edit on 21-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 08:39 AM
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It really doesn't matter how many planets are around stars in relative locations to have proper conditions for life.
Just because a planet has all the right conditions- It doesn't mean life will form there.

Just because it happened here on Earth- It isn't a fact that it happens elsewhere.
I like to believe we are not alone- But I can also concede to the notion that life may have been the biggest fluke since the dawn of time.

And even if there is advanced life out there- None of you, nor I, will ever live to see us make contact.
And please, no one quote me on that with the whole "Never say never
"

We should be confirming whether or not there's life in our solar system (Microbial) before we start holding our breath for contact with ET.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 09:08 AM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


A SUPERB post!!... If I could give you 100 stars I would


You summed up my own feelings on this topic, but in a much MUCH better way than I ever could



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 10:18 AM
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life maybe common but if you asked any evolutionary biologist they would say tech intelligence like us (humans) is very rare.

in evolution they have whats known as "convergent features". for example the eye has evolved independantly 50 or 60 times that we know of. Nature keeps coming up with it and there are multiple pathways in diffirent organisms to evolve the eye. Some would extrapolate that to life in the galaxy. If we found a planet with complex life it would likely contain creatures with eyes of some sort.

we can ask the question. Is tech intelligence a convergent feature of evolution? The answer is a resounding no. It arose only once in 500 million years out of billions of species. Nature just doesnt seem very interested in intelligence. So to say tech intelligence is common in our galaxy i think is just plain wrong.

this is probably the strongest arguement against intelligence being common in our galaxy.

the universe or galaxy is not what you personally want it to be. The universe is what it is.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by yeti101]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 11:39 AM
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I share the same conclusions with the OP and others in this thread; ancient civilizations on Earth believed the Galaxy was filled with other civilizations.

Vimanas of Ancient India documented the exotic tribes, who are believed (by some) to come from other planets.

Google search on "Ancient India Aliens"



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 11:58 AM
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posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 12:01 PM
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Life is aggressive, survival in tough conditions is what life does.

Suggesting that Earth was a fluke beggars belief and goes against everything we know about life. Life will take hold wherever and however it possibly can and suggesting that only during Earths big bang, in a universe as big as it is, did microbes exist is illogical.

Microbes probably exist in many places throughout the universe and given what we know of life, it would have found away to survive and adapt even in conditions which are not like earth. We have seen this in evidence on earth and again mainstream sciences long held "truth" has been proven wrong in both extremes of heat and extremes of cold in recent times.

We once believed life could not survive in certain conditions, only to find that it can and it does very well. Life is very difficult to stop from surviving as a rule. Give it a vestigae of even the ost extreme conditions and it will survive and thrive. We know this.

So we dont even need "earthlike" planets for life or advanced life to exist. Under differen conditions it would have evolved differently, again we could point to silicon life theories which are very reasonable.

Its folly to assume life everywhere is carbon based, in fact at the extremes of the universe there may be life based on elements we have never even seen. Again humanity has always been discovering unknown elements. We only know what we have, theres no reason to assume that the makeup of elements and life a few million light years from here would be in anway based on our own chemistry or elements.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Oreyeon
It's a BIG universe, and I highly doubt we're the Kings of it.


I also, sincerely hope we're not the kings of it. But just because we seem to be barely past the knuckle-dragging stage....doesn't mean we are not the best the universe has to offer.

I know it might be painful to consider that.....but the possibility of that being the case, must be pondered.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
We have seen this in evidence on earth.....


And with the addition of a single word, "only", the key to most of the argument is revealed. Only on Earth. Out of the mind-boggling number of galaxies, stars, and planets.....Earth is the single example we have to point at and say, "this is how it works...here."

That is the only certainty we have to work with. Bear in mind, that doesn't eliminate the possibility of nearly identical processes at work on some alien planet. Certainly, trying to establish reasonable probabilities is pointless; as we have a ridiculously small sample to work with. As it stands, with the sample available, the odds currently stand at 1 in (gadzooks!!).

[edit on 21-10-2008 by MrPenny]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by mystiq
 


That's a lot of bold statements considering you have absolutely zero evidence or proof of what you just said. Please provide your credentials for making such statements, or retract and admit you lied.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 12:27 PM
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Silver,


Sorry but you really do need to check you information. Probability in this case will envolve hundreds of consideration, conditions of life, propensity of bacterial life, and a a whole shed load more factors.


But we don’t need to consider all of that. The only thing we’re asking is; what is the probability of life developing? Since without that there can be no civilisations. The conditions life is found thriving in today or the propensity of bacterial life doesn’t matter to this question; life surviving and spreading is different from life developing.

To come up with a probably for this happening elsewhere we would need much more information than we currently have.

Think of it like this; I have a bag (the universe) full of white and black balls (white representing planets that developed life and black those that didn’t) with an unknown ratio. I pick out one ball and it is white, what is the probability of other balls being white? You can’t find that answer because your sample pool is too small. If however I picked out four balls and two were white and two were black then you could determine that the probably of any given ball being white is 0.5. In this example human knowledge is represented by picking out just one ball, i.e. the Earth.




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