reply to post by ArMaP
It would be a whole long debate and another thread to go into how people came to America, but from everything I have seen there were multiple
migrations and from the genetic research I have seen posted... some of those it seems came by sea, long before columbus
But conjecture and debate aside on what if's
I'd like to address some points about Mars...
You make an interesting statement or 2
1 "I don't see what the purpose is"
2 " why not the surface "
NO 2 First
If there is one thing about life on Earth that is an Anomoly... it would be that we dwell on the surface
When we look at space we see...the surfaces of planets because that is where we live
But that's not the reality... the surface..is like standing on the outside of a spaceship in flight, the odds of anything lasting very long on the
surface of any small planet is probably really bad, we know this from the number of mass extinctions our planet has suffered
Even on earth... if you add up organisms, most of them live by number, under the surface, partially under the surface or under the water or spend much
of thier time under the surface... even on our own planet we are really the exception not the rule.
the higher up you are... the more dangerous survival becomes...even to predators, out in the open is... dangerous.
Asteroids, comets, the sun, predators in an open environment... weather and more... it's a shooting gallery up here
Life that survives almost assuredly lives under shelter
We say the moon is not inhabited? How would we know if we look at it from the Shell only?
It's a solid ball of material but not large enough to have a true core.. anything could live inside it in any piockets, maybe there is a small ocean
somewhere in there and some radioactive materials and near the center it's warm and there is fungus and bacteria growing in that water...completely
Now Take a Planet like Mars...
surface...you mention less sunlight... Yes but no shielding via atmosphere... and cold
But go down 20 feet or more and... same exact climate as Earth in places.., atmosphere would be retained underground, water is present it will melt as
you achieve pressure depth and warmth
How do I know there are caves?
The planet was once active, vulcanism... it was hot... as the planet cooled it would have left lava tubes... I climb them here on Earth all the time,
I just did the one in Flagstaff this past weekend again...
the Main reason though is water, there is an ocean of water trapped in the surface... you increase depth and pressure that water is going to melt and
run... down into Mars...
There is simply no way possible that as you go to depthj and increase pressure the bottom layers of that water don't run... scientifically impossible
for them not to... the planet may not be active like Earth but certainly via pressure at some point deep enough there is magma and the depth for melt
would not be very deep at all given any internal heating what so ever
So you have to have, rivers running from the permafrost into the depths of Mars, it just freezes again as it heats to steam before it would reach the
add to the water and the lava tubes the cooling of the crust and fracturing as the planet shrank as it cooled... yet another reason there should be
AND there is no plate activity, so ...things are going to settle and leave chambers, pockets of gas will be traped, no plate tectonics to colapse
chambers... so the planet has to be litterered with far more caves than the Earth is... Not so differenent than it having a much larger vocano than
any mountain on Earth and a much deeper longer canyon than the grand canyon... we will find I am sure that Martian Caverns are... far more extensive
and numerous than on Earth
Just as an Example
the volcano is huge and dormant for how long?
Inside Olympus Mons you could house, probably all of the population of America... the main Lava tube itself must be enourmous, the number of passages
and lave tubes would be staggering, the thing is gigantic and if it was a volcano it HAS to have... HUGE Chambers where the Lave once flowed
How would I survve on Mars..be assured of finding caves and ice and temperatures at the right depth I could live in...
Onlympus Mons would be my first shot at a place I could...breath or, at the very least exract air and would have a volume of space, gas and water in
side it large enough that it would support life and under enough Pressure... to create an eco system unexposed to the harsh outer environment...
almost certainly inactive or not... there is still some minor heat deep in the interior that rises from inside the depths of the planet
Why Caves on Mars to me as a certainty... why not assume life would be on the surface?
Because Most likely...unless life had evolved on Mars on it's own... the Most likely scenario for life on Mars would be seeded from Earth...
and what Life from Earth do we know could survive the journey?
Extremophiles, from under the ocean, or from inside volcanoes or from deep in the Earth... these are the organisms that could survive on a rock blown
off the planet from an impact...
and that's where they live on earth...and that's where they would survive on Mars when they came to rest... impacted into the ground, thats the kind
of life from... deep under our soil...and slamed deep into Martian soil that would make that journey and thaw out and reproduce...
so my assumption is based on... life there having made it from Earth... long ago and taking hold in the few environments that are a match... and they
are all extremeophille underground environments... inside volcanos, the percholate deserts in Peru, under the Antartic, from deep in the Earths
Crust... these critters live in places that are a match for the Martian environment... and can survive the journey for a few hundred years frozen in a
rock with no issues
Now I know of 2..maybe 3 or 4 places in the solar system where life and environments can match those more extreme environments on Earth... Europa
would be another under the Ice in the Ocean... Thermal vents given Jupiters gravitational pull is a a 99.9 % likely hood...
Extremophilles from Earth,,could make that Journey and take hold...
so I am working with what I know... organisms from Earth that can last thousands of years in space and survive in what we would consider very hostile
We Know... the earth has been slammed in massive ways, many, many times, including the potential impact that might have formed the Moon! which would
have if any basic life was presnet showered the solar system... and beyond with... organisms from our planet
Now you ask WHY?
we can't stay here forever....
life inside Olympus Mons might sound like a nightmare for some lol... but, I think I could dig it, the hard life in a way as a pioneeer, vs... slavery
on an over populated Earth...
It would be... for me a more vital reason to live...the sake of survival and exploration than... selling crap on the Internet is... (that what I do
I guess, some of us are just born to be explorers and just never feel comfortable sitting still
You refer to it as ..."a suicide mission" for me it would be a mission of survival... it just registers in me somewhere as... a better way to
a single asteroid haul is worth about 17 trillion in Platinum...
lol, if the whole exploration kick isn't your bag, I understand... but 1 asteroid could pay off the entire US debt
Ample reason to stop spending more money fighting moronic wars than it would cost to build a shuttle fleet and start the mines going...
the Moon alone is probably worth enough to make a nation that mines it rich for centuries upon centuries...
precious metals, and what else we can only guess at... energy source? solar power beamed back to earth? what else? genetic research done in zero G,
lots of money to be made in space
[edit on 21-10-2008 by mopusvindictus]