What turns the police from friend to enemy?

I think alot of people who join the force do it for the power over others, but what about the genuine ones who do it to help others and generally help society.What is it that turns THEM against the people. Back in the days of Nazi germany and Stalinist Russia, to now, even in our time, police are turning against their own people.WHY?
I personaly believe that they are cowards! They believe that if they work FOR the beast, then the beast won't eat THEM!!
Of course they are indoctrinated and manipulated to some extent, but can they ALL be brainwashed to that extent, where they will brutalize, even kill there own citizens? I believe they are not that stupid. They must be either WILLING or FEARFUL ???

Interesting. It is said that there is an exception to every rule, and here it would be that there is an honest cop. Just like an honest drug-dealer, or hit man. I have met a lot of cops, in a lot of situations, and I have yet to meet a cop of integrity. It may still happen. But I won't hold my breath. I absolutely support and uphold the law, but that is what makes me their enemy, because they ARE above the law. The bully in your grade school? He is now a cop or a lawyer. And still the schmuck he always was.

Anyone that's worked in any corporation has probably seen the politics and back stabbing that can take place. Ordinary people will do most anything to keep their job and advance their position. It's just a tragedy of life that few people care about truth and justice. More so now because it is not cultivated but steadily discouraged.

Law enforcement is no exception. People are easily lead and manipulated. People have applied for jobs in law enforcement and been rejected because they where too smart. Add the desire to militarize and you have the current situation.

That said, there are many good people in law enforcement and many very aware people who seep through the cracks of the system. When we read about police teaming up arrogantly against citizens at a rally it is partly due to peer pressure and group consciousness that can form in the situation. I think we have the misconception that the police are brainwashed and totally buying into the programming. I don't really think that is the case.

I don't consider police my friends now.. they are nothing more than a mop up crew, they spend more time and money fighting things like people driving 5mph over the speed limit and finding drugs, than they do actually solving crimes.

Police are not yours or my Friends... they are not friends...
I was told to turn around... that I didn't see anything... asked to do things to other peoples property... I even saw a gun come out of a sock and tossed under the rear seat... before I towed the car to police headquarters for crime lab work... POLICE ARE NO FRIENDS... at least the ones I saw doing illegal stuff... A to Z towing, San Diego, CA... MAFIA is how the police work there... and don't ever let anyone tell you different...


* when was the last time you saw...
"TO SERVE AND PROTECT on a police car.... now it 911 and get ready to go bankrupt...

[edit on 20-10-2008 by BornPatriot]

Originally posted by Gregarious
I have yet to meet a cop of integrity.

What's a "cop of integrity" to you? One that doesn't write you a speeding ticket because you broke the law?

Originally posted by E-ville
they spend more time and money fighting things like people driving 5mph over the speed limit and finding drugs, than they do actually solving crimes.

Breaking speeding laws and drug laws aren't crimes?

Originally posted by BornPatriot

"TO SERVE AND PROTECT on a police car.... now it 911 and get ready to go bankrupt...

On mine

[edit on 20-10-2008 by Kwapp]

Social crimes are what turn cops from friends to enemies.

When the US was first made, there were no social crimes. The police only enforce crimes that had victims. Murder, theft etc. We had the least amount of crime in the world, and also the least amount of cops. The people do not want such types around, and they would actively help the police find them.

Then social crimes start happening. Now the police are no longer going after crimes with victims, but going after people habits that don't hurt anyone. We all have people in our families with bad social habits(drinking/drugs etc). And we know they aren't hurting anyone. When the police come after them, then you do not help them. They instead become the enemy. And many people suffer from these social laws.

As a result of the social crimes, if you talk to the police you are a snitch. Thus it has become to where people won't even talk to them for the crimes with victims. Because the overall attitude is they are not really the good guys. Especially in a society where the enforce of these social crimes is a major focus of enforcement(DEA).

There is a story about this. From a frenchman who came to the US in it's early days. He noted the low amount of crime and policeman compared with France. In France they had many social laws. He noted how the courts were mostly entertainment to watch people who were in for social crimes. And how the people looked at the police as the enemy. And how in america we had little crime, no social laws and the police were the friends.

If anyone knows that story and where it came from/who wrote it. I'd be more than grateful for the information. It's a great story on this topic.

It's funny how full of crap some people are.

I know more than my fair share of cops. They are just the same as you and I, there are good and bad. I know most of the cops at my local department are very nice people, and even let people get away with the more minor crimes unless they treat them poorly(slam doors in there faces, tell them to 'F' off, or try to pick fights because they think they understand law), usually in the form of noise violations around here.

Most of the bitter, hard-assed cops I see are that way because of people treating them like the enemy. Don't try to fight it, media loves portraying cops as corrupt criminals, and sometimes making them out to be more evil than the worst gangbangers. The only other big problems I've seen are the rookies that think they are almighty until senior officers smack it out of them.

Hell, I plan to join the force to protect people once I'm done with my Criminal Justice degree, and all the time I've spent around cops, I haven't seen any brainwashing or shady dealings. Though, I cannot say cops are all cut and clean, they can be dirty, just like anyone else.

To cast judgment like some people do on an entire division of workers is terrible. A lot of people tend to be hypocrites in this sense. "Everyone is equal!" they shout, but the second they get a speeding ticket "Pigs! Police State! MONSTERS!". Cops don't have it easy either, in my Hometown my best friends dad had to use fake phone numbers and became a paranoid wreck in crowds due to all the death threats and harassment he would receive before he retired.

I'm not here to throw stones and belittle posters, but a lot of people don't take the time to consider police as humans.

reply to post by badmedia


May like this link.
tarlton.law.utexas.edu...

Originally posted by SweetRevenge
It's funny how full of crap some people are.

True.

Originally posted by SweetRevengeThey are just the same as you and I, there are good and bad.

Also true.

And statistics wise, if you compare the amount of corrupt cops vs. the amount of corrupt corporate employees in the USA, compared to the total amount of them, police officers are actually the most honest employees in America.

Originally posted by SweetRevenge
I know most of the cops at my local department are very nice people, and even let people get away with the more minor crimes unless they treat them poorly(slam doors in there faces, tell them to 'F' off, or try to pick fights because they think they understand law), usually in the form of noise violations around here.

Also true.

Originally posted by SweetRevenge
Most of the bitter, hard-assed cops I see are that way because of people treating them like the enemy.

Also true.

Originally posted by SweetRevenge
Don't try to fight it, media loves portraying cops as corrupt criminals, and sometimes making them out to be more evil than the worst gangbangers.

Also true. Media does not actually hate police, but they want to run stories that will sell $$$. Right now, the American public LOVES "corrupt cop" stories. The media makes so much $$$ off of bad cop stories.

Originally posted by SweetRevenge

Hell, I plan to join the force to protect people once I'm done with my Criminal Justice degree,

WORST IDEA IN THE WORLD. Turn away now, switch your degree over to something else. This job is just not worth it.

EVERYONE will hate you. For no reason at all. They will hate you, mock you, spit on you, and pick fights with you just because you are a police officer and there's an untrue and negative stereotype about police officers.


The moment I even revealed myself as an officer on this forum, I already have had people add me as a "respected foe" on here. That's pretty ridiculous, and I only have 2 posts on this board (including this one).

And family life? Forget it. You will have to work 12 hour rotating shifts, not including all the overtime. If you want to become an officer, you better accept that you will be single for the rest of your life and have no kids.


To sum it up, become a cop if:

1. Want to be single for the rest of your life
   
2. Have no kids for the rest of your life
   
3. Want to have no friends for the rest of your life
   
4. The friends you have now turn against you
   
5. Save people and help your community...
   
6. ...But have those same people spit on you and call you "pig" the next day.
   

Originally posted by SweetRevenge
Cops don't have it easy either, in my Hometown my best friends dad had to use fake phone numbers and became a paranoid wreck in crowds due to all the death threats and harassment he would receive before he retired.

I'm not here to throw stones and belittle posters, but a lot of people don't take the time to consider police as humans.

Exactly.


I think it all boils down to this: Adults don't like being told what to do. They think now that they are an adult, they have no one to answer to but god. This would explain why most people also hate their boss. Sorry, but this is the real world, and you kids are in for a rude awakening.




[edit on 21-10-2008 by Kwapp]

Originally posted by badmedia
Social crimes are what turn cops from friends to enemies.

When the US was first made, there were no social crimes.

Not true. 99% of the laws we enforce today are more than 175 years old. Speeding laws are actually pretty old themselves, more than 100 years old.

Originally posted by badmedia
The police only enforce crimes that had victims.

The next time you have to scrape what's left of a family of 4 off of the road because some dumbass decided to speed or drive drunk, go to their grandmother and tell her the bad news as she cries in your arms, then come back and tell me that these crimes don't have victims.

Originally posted by badmedia
We had the least amount of crime in the world, and also the least amount of cops.

I would like to see some statistical proof or reference to back this up - I have a feeling you are pulling this from your magic hat.

Originally posted by badmedia

Then social crimes start happening. Now the police are no longer going after crimes with victims,

Yeah, that must be it. When all those calls come out on the radio I just ignore them, hell I tell my supervisor to F**k off.

Originally posted by badmedia

but going after people habits that don't hurt anyone. We all have people in our families with bad social habits(drinking/drugs etc). And we know they aren't hurting anyone.

Yeah, like that drunk driver who ran over and killed a 7 year old girl whom I had to arrest. Never hurt anyone! Just a bad habit! Try to tell that to her parents. I told them something. But that wasn't what I told them.






[edit on 21-10-2008 by Kwapp]

OK as a police officer here are a few subjects:

Seat belt laws.

How come the state can mandate I use a seat belt, when the only person that will loose anything from the situation is me the non seat belt wearing person.

Seat belt laws in my opinion are absurd, if I cant make a educated risk assessment for myself then just how free am I?

As a officer you need to think about the laws your enforcing, seat belt laws are simply and only there for INCOME, not wearing a seat belt does nothing to harm anyone else on the road.

And yet in the same exact state I can ride around on a motorcycle with no helmet... why because they tried passing a helmet law and the bikers stormed the capital in protest..

As for speed killing people , look at the Autobahn in Germany, they have less deaths there than on US highways... So saying speeding causes deaths is not a valid argument as the autobahn has proven.

You do know why we have certain speed limits on roads, correct, it's blackmail by the federal government , they collect all those gas taxes on fuel and then hold it up to the sates and say "you want all this gas tax from fuel sales in your state? then you have to enact these speed laws, seatbelt laws, and these DUI limits" Some states like New Hampshire have said we don't want your blood money and have not enacted there federal laws on seat belts etc. Remember this county is a republic of independent states and the federal government can't force any state to adopt its laws. But they can bribe and blackmail them all they want.. its like the mob, but "legal".

People need to speak out on these small issues because they just grow bigger and bigger.

reply to post by Kwapp


With all the respect in the world Kwapp, I'm continuing with Criminal Justice and Law Enforcement. In all honesty, I've never felt so drawn to something and it's the only thing propelling me through college. For 2-3 years prior I had reserved myself to industrial work and saw how bad it is from an insiders perspective. I want to protect and serve, and I don't care how many ATS users target me as an enemy or something crazy like an 'agent of the nwo'.

I've already had friends turn bitter with my choice, because they think I'll turn them in because they smoke pot and we have to be enemies. They're coming to accept it though, and that's all that I can ask for. It was crazy the first time I heard that though, I notice if they break the law even slightly they think you'll turn on them, no matter how many times I tell them 'out of sight, out of mind'.

My family, closest friends, and girlfriend are the only people really supporting me at the moment and I don't have many friends that seem to care about my profession choice either way(probably because we live/work in seperate towns).

Originally posted by E-ville


Seat belt laws.

How come the state can mandate I use a seat belt, when the only person that will loose anything from the situation is me the non seat belt wearing person.


As a officer you need to think about the laws your enforcing, seat belt laws are simply and only there for INCOME, not wearing a seat belt does nothing to harm anyone else on the road.

Perhaps, and what about suicide laws? While committing suicide you usually don't hurt anyone but yourself as well, but it's still illegal. Perhaps the state doesn't want you harming anyone - including yourself.


It's true that seatbelt laws could just be there for revenue. But the money that the government makes on these traffic laws goes back into the community anyway, to make better roads, new schools, etc. Yes, maybe these laws are just there for revenue, but it's not like the government is pocketing it. It gets returned back to the community in one way, shape, or form. What's so evil about that?

Originally posted by E-ville
As for speed killing people , look at the Autobahn in Germany, they have less deaths there than on US highways... So saying speeding causes deaths is not a valid argument as the autobahn has proven.

Apples and oranges. The autobahn in Germany is designed much differently for starters. And it's definitely not the same as a residential road with kids around.


Honestly, I don't even know what to say to people who like to argue that speed doesn't kill. Yes, yes it does. It's common sense. It can be measured and tested. I know people who argue that speeding is safe aren't physicists, but seriously.


On a highway that goes one direction, speeding might be fine. But on a road that has traffic going in opposite directions - speeding can and WILL kill.

Consider this - every time you pass an oncoming car going down the road in the opposite direction, you are literally inches from death. How many feet are between your car and theirs? Maybe 2-3 feet at most? At 55mph, a head-on collision will almost always result in death. There's simply just too much kinetic energy involved.

Originally posted by E-ville
You do know why we have certain speed limits on roads, correct, it's blackmail by the federal government

That must be it, despite the fact that speeding laws and such are state laws, not federal ones.

I'd have to say I agree with SweetRevenge here. The issue is not so black and white(little joke for Kwapp there).

I work in a NOC and that kinda rhymes with cop, but it is also con backwards...but anyways. I like to think that I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and when I started working for my second job at an ISP in their NOC, I noticed the particularly jaded tone that the techs would have towards their customers and promised myself that I wouldn't allow myself to be like that. At the time, I was more technically ignorant, so it wasn't a real concern for me as my humility was genuine.

Well, it's been a few years now and I think I can say that I've adopted some of those mannerisms I was so hard-set against adopting despite my best intent. I am probably being a little hard on myself in saying that because I really do my best to make sure I know what I'm talking about before passing any judgement and even then, I am in the business of serving others and keep reminding myself of that fact.

Beware of making generalizations...in general.
The thing that keeps me in check is that I have an unnatural aversion to being a bad person. I know I still have much to learn and the last thing I want to have happen is for me to go ripping into a client who knows more than I do and experience the potentially lethal(ok, non-lethal) backlash.

Police have a stressful job and it takes a unique individual to do the job and do it right. Don't let a few bad apples spoil the whole load n all that.

I dont think they do it for the abuse of power, some maybe but not all.

I think a lot of people start off actually wanting to help society and their community. The problem starts when they realize that they do have authority over others, that they have the power very few have. Eventually that grows into a corruption of their soul. It twist their views mixes up their judgements and morals and will leave them power abusing lawless pigs that society has come to hate.

Its a windy path that can be overcome but people like power so a lot of cops fall victim to the authority they are given.

Originally posted by Kwapp


What's a "cop of integrity" to you? One that doesn't write you a speeding ticket because you broke the law?

Has that cop verified that the speed limit is legal?

A cop of integrity IMO, is a cop that refuses to enforce unconstitutional laws, regardless of what some idiots in black robes think.

Breaking speeding laws and drug laws aren't crimes?

Drug laws are unconstitutional. The federal government has no authority to regulate what a private individual may do to his or her own body.

A large number of speed limits in this nation are in fact illegal, as they have not been determined by legal means.

"TO SERVE AND PROTECT on a police car.... now it 911 and get ready to go bankrupt...

The police have no legal obligation to protect anyone that isn't in their custody. That little motto is just a pacification measure.


Be wary of those who seek to control others.




[edit on 21-10-2008 by Evil Doer]

reply to post by sayzaar


Law enforcement like any other profession is a mixed bag. As a Prison Worker volunteer for the ACLU in Texas I have had the opportunity to sample that bag.

One of the posters here was correct in the statement that Law enforcement applicants are excluded if test scores are too high. A higher intellect is more likely to question authority. I think that a contributing factor for increased abuse comes from an inability for some law enforcement to apply critical thinking in moments of stress.

I am concerned with the unjustified violence perpetrated against civilians, but what frightens me most is the way that some departments dispense the tricks of the trade in the behaivoral sciences to produce the desired outcome. Techniques of hypnosis to pick your perp, influence a witness or give testimony in a court of law. There's a lot of hocus-pocus in our justice system. It's all dishonest and dangerous.

reply to post by sayzaar


If your not joining for the power, then you will be eaten up, by the forces within the police force. The main mo, for someone joining the police, is just plain and simple, you have to be a wanna be serial killer. How could you live with the fact that you then destroy innocent lifes, without feeling bad.

The police are just there for mainly mental people, to go to, to make stuff up about people, and get people you do not like in trouble. They have nothing to do with fighting crime. Sickos, the most of them, i would not give them the time of day.

How many murders do the police get away with every year, in any given country, the total must be very high.

If you do not think so. Try being that person on death row, that commited no crime, and the police did it all for the power trip they are on. If you have never did anything wrong, and your life is ended by these useless eaters, you would understand my thoughts on this.



[edit on 10/21/2008 by andy1033]

reply to post by sayzaar


Not all the police in every country are the same. The ones in the UK are decidedly more friendly and polite than any I've seen in the US. They know they are public servants, and that if they step over the line they will be disciplined. They're also not regularly armed, which makes a massive difference. If they want to get into trouble, they'll mean it, and not do it because they can get away with it.

My guess is if you make someone untouchable, as the cops in the US frequently are ('they don't punish their own', etc.), then you'll get a bad force. Obviously some cops will be nice guys, but if the ones that are not are not punished, then the whole system fails. People stop trusting the cops, and the resentment grows, worsening the situation.