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(HSSC2) Suffocation
page: 2share:
reply to post by KilgoreTrout
CT:
I find myself rewriting and editing and tightening this post over and over for 7 hrs. (just crashed again and lost it -- again -- but am keeping a word copy.)
First draft blurted out casually then got progressively more real -- while being conscious of your sincerity and my word count. My intuition shifted gears several times -- and, I've noticed why. Thanks.
I am touched and moved by your honesty & vulnerability.
Congratulations! ...on your decision to turn yourself over to writing. I remember the Fellini movie, 'Satyricon' -- where the poet drunkenly makes fun of the King's poetry at the King's party then awakes in a field with a headache without knowing how he got there.
Fiction or non-fiction or both? I'm wanting to switch to fiction.
KT: This is my great sadness with the world today, so much talent left to fend for itself.
CT: Mine, too. As if to say: "Kill the artists! Starve them out!" I think of millions of people who want to work, but there are no jobs for them. I think of my writer and artist friends who struggled their whole lives then died.
I triumphed, but David died. So did Mike. And Marina.
KT: I think that all we can do is support each other and scrape by the best that we can.
CT: Let's be supportive, okay?
CT: There's a Bruce Willis movie, 'Tears of the Sun' ...a 'guy' film but there's an African supporting actress with so much feeling in her face, when she sees the torn up soldier who rescued her being helped by, she is crying for his pain but at the same time, smiling because she's so grateful he's alive and she and her daughter are alive, because of him -- weeping in great sorrow but being happy ...at the same time.
KT: I've made the decision to give myself over to writing,
CT: That's great. I'm on the verge of giving myself over to short story writing.
KT: I have fought it and suppressed it for a very long time.
CT: You know those "feelings", now elicit those feelings in your reader. One must only write drama (fiction) about urgent feelings.
Half of drama is a feeling of urgency. The other half is a character proceeding (plotted from one feeling to its opposite orchestrated up or down a staircase where each step is one of say 9-10 'feeling' steps progressing from that feeling to its opposite (in 9-10 distinct steps) BUT at the same time being frustrated by CONFLICT, by an ENEMY who wants to destroy you or a part of you. Life vs. Death ... at each step, where one victory propels you to the next problem (conflict).
CT: I've fought going back to writing short stories for 40 years ...hence, 'Suffocation'. Giving over to writing or to love is suffocatingly similar. Writing is guaranteed ...depends only on oneself.
KT: I have a young child so I have responsibilities
CT: You're lucky because you'll always have love, even when words fail you. How old is your boy or girl?
CT: I never had any kids because as an artist and writer I could barely support myself. You have more courage and strength than I. Everyone knows women are stronger than men.
KT: and I have only self-belief that no matter the outcome I know that this is my path.
CT: It won't be any harder than it already is, but will be fulfilling.
KT: I accept the poverty, the rejection and the isolation,
CT: Dostoyevsky writes about that. You're touching my heart, again. See, you're a good writer.
KT: like you it is no great loss for I have a multitude of universes inside my head to explore and inhabit,
CT: full of dead ends to crash into or hide behind.
KT: but I struggle to know whether this is a good life for a child.
CT: Of course, it's best. If a parent loves what they are doing, that raises one's self-esteem, artistic & spiritual stature as a result of choosing to nurture one's talent ... then the child will learn self-respect, creativity, artistry. Art carries a price, but creates the finest people.
KT: Whether I can be a good writer and a good mother.
CT: You already are a good writer and a good mother.
KT: I fear that I may have to wait a few more years until I can be the writer that I want to be.
CT: Author of Harry Potter -- if she wasn't on welfare, raising 4 kids, believing in her art i.e. herself -- she never would've become a billionaire.
KT: I'll practice in the meantime, but have yet to find the courage to completely let go for any length of time, in the way that I see others able to, like yourself.
CT: It's not courage. It's knowing
KT: I know that I can though, and I didn't for a long time.
CT: You see, you've already won the battle. It sounds like you've been suffering a bit, and have had to overcome abuse. I know what that one's like.
KT: Far too much self-control and restraint for my own good.
CT: Sometimes yes, sometimes no. That self-control and restraint has kept you and your child alive, remember. There's a time for letting go, like you said, and a time for abandon. But in writing, before letting go we throw out lifelines first by learning a few little techniques that allow us to recover from a state of abandonment. This is called, The Art of Dramatic Writing (if you U2U me someone's address I'll mail (lend) you my copy.)
If you intend not to recover, and want no safety net or safely line upon which to return, then you write like Kafka or Artaud or Celine (Death on the Installment Plan) or Hunter Thompson (Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas) ...unfortunately Celine and Thompson were addicts, and Bukowski (Barfly and many great poetry books and novels), a drunk.
KT: Thank you for your kind words, they mean a lot, and for telling us a little more about yourself.
CT: You're welcome. Your words are heartfelt.
KT: I wish that you had had more success,
CT: Yeah, me too, cause then I could have sent you a plane ticket.
KT: but in a way the fact that you haven't, but still know that you are living the life that you want to live, gives me a little more strength to follow the path I have chosen. Best wishes.
CT: Now you've gone and broken my heart. See what a good writer you are. How kind and caring is that, to say you've gotten strength from me.
7 hours on one post, what's the world coming to?
Feel free to question me about dramatic structure or plotting; once you know these, you can let go and return at will w/no peril. It's not so much courage as taking advantage of barely enough dramatic control structure to guarantee your intentions, follow your intuition and know the feelings involved in safety, flight and art, and living a lifestyle of your own. If dramatic structure is there the work is successful, if not, it's not. You have plenty of courage, self-awareness, strength and integrity --
the economy of dialog
dramatic structure of dialog by Tennessee Williams, w/Elizabeth Taylor, Paul Newman and Marlon Brando
best writing is underground poetry
[edit on 24-10-2008 by counterterrorist]
CT:
I find myself rewriting and editing and tightening this post over and over for 7 hrs. (just crashed again and lost it -- again -- but am keeping a word copy.)
First draft blurted out casually then got progressively more real -- while being conscious of your sincerity and my word count. My intuition shifted gears several times -- and, I've noticed why. Thanks.
I am touched and moved by your honesty & vulnerability.
Congratulations! ...on your decision to turn yourself over to writing. I remember the Fellini movie, 'Satyricon' -- where the poet drunkenly makes fun of the King's poetry at the King's party then awakes in a field with a headache without knowing how he got there.
Fiction or non-fiction or both? I'm wanting to switch to fiction.
KT: This is my great sadness with the world today, so much talent left to fend for itself.
CT: Mine, too. As if to say: "Kill the artists! Starve them out!" I think of millions of people who want to work, but there are no jobs for them. I think of my writer and artist friends who struggled their whole lives then died.
muse: working title - 'My Great Sadness'
premise: talent left to fend for itself in hardship can triumph in unexpected ways --or not.
I triumphed, but David died. So did Mike. And Marina.
KT: I think that all we can do is support each other and scrape by the best that we can.
CT: Let's be supportive, okay?
muse: sad & honest, very sincere.
character traits of heroine
muse: reversal of character
from sadness to happiness
CT: There's a Bruce Willis movie, 'Tears of the Sun' ...a 'guy' film but there's an African supporting actress with so much feeling in her face, when she sees the torn up soldier who rescued her being helped by, she is crying for his pain but at the same time, smiling because she's so grateful he's alive and she and her daughter are alive, because of him -- weeping in great sorrow but being happy ...at the same time.
KT: I've made the decision to give myself over to writing,
CT: That's great. I'm on the verge of giving myself over to short story writing.
muse: conflict > dilemma > decision ... the basics of storywriting.
KT: I have fought it and suppressed it for a very long time.
CT: You know those "feelings", now elicit those feelings in your reader. One must only write drama (fiction) about urgent feelings.
muse: add'l heroine character traits: valor, determination, aggressive, controlling (obsessive-compulsive)
Half of drama is a feeling of urgency. The other half is a character proceeding (plotted from one feeling to its opposite orchestrated up or down a staircase where each step is one of say 9-10 'feeling' steps progressing from that feeling to its opposite (in 9-10 distinct steps) BUT at the same time being frustrated by CONFLICT, by an ENEMY who wants to destroy you or a part of you. Life vs. Death ... at each step, where one victory propels you to the next problem (conflict).
muse:
Act 1
sincere, tender, honest, aware, burdened, responsible, desperate, tentative, vulnerable
(sadness)
Chapter 1: conflict > outcome > dilemma > realization > decision
Chapter 2: conflict > outcome > dilemma > realization > decision
Chapter 3: conflict > outcome > dilemma > realization > decision
dilemma -- is this a good life for a child
Act 2
valor, determination, aggressive, controlling-obsessive-compulsive
Chapter 4: conflict > outcome > dilemma > realization > decision
Chapter 5: conflict > outcome > dilemma > realization > decision
Chapter 6: conflict > outcome > dilemma > realization > decision
dilemma -- is this a good life for me
Act 3
self-belief, confidence, courage, self-knowledge, determination, brutal honesty, vulnerability, trust, tenderness
Chapter 7: conflict > outcome > dilemma > realization > decision
Chapter 8: conflict > outcome > dilemma > realization > decision
Chapter 9: conflict > outcome
..............................(happiness)
..............................(is best for child & is best for me)
CT: I've fought going back to writing short stories for 40 years ...hence, 'Suffocation'. Giving over to writing or to love is suffocatingly similar. Writing is guaranteed ...depends only on oneself.
KT: I have a young child so I have responsibilities
CT: You're lucky because you'll always have love, even when words fail you. How old is your boy or girl?
muse: sincere, tender, honest, aware, burdened, responsible, desperate, tentative, vulnerable
add'l character traits of heroine
CT: I never had any kids because as an artist and writer I could barely support myself. You have more courage and strength than I. Everyone knows women are stronger than men.
KT: and I have only self-belief that no matter the outcome I know that this is my path.
CT: It won't be any harder than it already is, but will be fulfilling.
muse: self-belief, confidence, courage, self-knowledge, determination, tenderness
add'l heroine character traits
KT: I accept the poverty, the rejection and the isolation,
CT: Dostoyevsky writes about that. You're touching my heart, again. See, you're a good writer.
muse: add'l heroine character traits, brutal honesty, vulnerability, trust
muse: settings/atmosphere
poverty, rejection, isolation
muse: introducing the problem: 1st three chapters
(Act 1)
settings:
scene (chapter) 1: poverty -- shack, food line, welfare kitchen, funeral
scene (chapter) 2: rejection -- a failed audition, divorce, break-up, illness
scene (chapter) 3: isolation -- isolation ward, solitary confinement, jail
4
5
6
7
8
9 - wedding
KT: like you it is no great loss for I have a multitude of universes inside my head to explore and inhabit,
CT: full of dead ends to crash into or hide behind.
KT: but I struggle to know whether this is a good life for a child.
CT: Of course, it's best. If a parent loves what they are doing, that raises one's self-esteem, artistic & spiritual stature as a result of choosing to nurture one's talent ... then the child will learn self-respect, creativity, artistry. Art carries a price, but creates the finest people.
muse: dilemma -- struggle to know whether this is a good life for a child
KT: Whether I can be a good writer and a good mother.
CT: You already are a good writer and a good mother.
KT: I fear that I may have to wait a few more years until I can be the writer that I want to be.
CT: Author of Harry Potter -- if she wasn't on welfare, raising 4 kids, believing in her art i.e. herself -- she never would've become a billionaire.
KT: I'll practice in the meantime, but have yet to find the courage to completely let go for any length of time, in the way that I see others able to, like yourself.
CT: It's not courage. It's knowing
KT: I know that I can though, and I didn't for a long time.
CT: You see, you've already won the battle. It sounds like you've been suffering a bit, and have had to overcome abuse. I know what that one's like.
muse: add'l heroin character traits, self-knowlege, wisdom, prior doubt
muse: character reversal -- from doubt > knowledge
KT: Far too much self-control and restraint for my own good.
CT: Sometimes yes, sometimes no. That self-control and restraint has kept you and your child alive, remember. There's a time for letting go, like you said, and a time for abandon. But in writing, before letting go we throw out lifelines first by learning a few little techniques that allow us to recover from a state of abandonment. This is called, The Art of Dramatic Writing (if you U2U me someone's address I'll mail (lend) you my copy.)
If you intend not to recover, and want no safety net or safely line upon which to return, then you write like Kafka or Artaud or Celine (Death on the Installment Plan) or Hunter Thompson (Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas) ...unfortunately Celine and Thompson were addicts, and Bukowski (Barfly and many great poetry books and novels), a drunk.
KT: Thank you for your kind words, they mean a lot, and for telling us a little more about yourself.
CT: You're welcome. Your words are heartfelt.
KT: I wish that you had had more success,
CT: Yeah, me too, cause then I could have sent you a plane ticket.
KT: but in a way the fact that you haven't, but still know that you are living the life that you want to live, gives me a little more strength to follow the path I have chosen. Best wishes.
CT: Now you've gone and broken my heart. See what a good writer you are. How kind and caring is that, to say you've gotten strength from me.
muse: title - 'Marina'
7 hours on one post, what's the world coming to?
Feel free to question me about dramatic structure or plotting; once you know these, you can let go and return at will w/no peril. It's not so much courage as taking advantage of barely enough dramatic control structure to guarantee your intentions, follow your intuition and know the feelings involved in safety, flight and art, and living a lifestyle of your own. If dramatic structure is there the work is successful, if not, it's not. You have plenty of courage, self-awareness, strength and integrity --
the economy of dialog
dramatic structure of dialog by Tennessee Williams, w/Elizabeth Taylor, Paul Newman and Marlon Brando
best writing is underground poetry
[edit on 24-10-2008 by counterterrorist]
Counterterrorist,
Wow! I have just returned from the journey your story took me on and it was quite a ride. In the second half of the story, I perceived religious undertones. The struggle of the soul to understand the essence of our being. The first half of the story was written in a way where I felt like I heard music under your prose. It was like a soundtrack to Michael Jackson's Thriller was playing because of the bounce and rhythm of the language. I sense baroque type music at the end. I thought it was profoundly sad. Thank you for sending me to it. I was thoroughly entertained.
In comments on this thread, you said you live for creativity over money. I am trying to teach that to my children. Because I think that is the key to happiness. True satisfaction comes from the spark of creation.
Wow! I have just returned from the journey your story took me on and it was quite a ride. In the second half of the story, I perceived religious undertones. The struggle of the soul to understand the essence of our being. The first half of the story was written in a way where I felt like I heard music under your prose. It was like a soundtrack to Michael Jackson's Thriller was playing because of the bounce and rhythm of the language. I sense baroque type music at the end. I thought it was profoundly sad. Thank you for sending me to it. I was thoroughly entertained.
In comments on this thread, you said you live for creativity over money. I am trying to teach that to my children. Because I think that is the key to happiness. True satisfaction comes from the spark of creation.
Thanks for your liking the story so much.
counterterrorist: That's neat, and unique. You must be a musician? That's quite a talent to hear music and name it. I hope you get to put some sound tracks to film, or make some youtubes.
Missing Blue Sky: It's interesting, because when I read this, I noticed I read it aloud, and automatically whisper it instead of speak it out. I wonder if that's the way I respond to it's rhythms, the way you hear the sound tracks beneath it.
Missing Blue Sky: I thought it was profoundly sad.
counterterrorist: You felt it.
Missing Blue Sky: I was thoroughly entertained.
counterterrorist: The story was the head on top of the beer blowing off in the wind. I haven't gotten to the alcohol, yet.
Missing Blue Sky: In comments on this thread, you said you live for creativity over money.
counterterrorist: Some call it living. Creativity is a negotiable currency, even a negotiable spiritual currency ... but only among creative people. Artists are traditionally despised in society. That's probably because artists feel ... and feeling is a threat to centralized authority.
Missing Blue Sky: 'live for creativity over money...'
I am trying to teach that to my children.
counterterrorist. There's a high school MMPI psychological inventory (that's the basis of the online dating match services). In high school it's given as a vocational exam. They go to professions, note the personalities traits of the people who enjoy those professions: like, policeman, social worker, priest, dentist, lawyer, accountant, dancer, writer, intelligencer, soldier, etc -- all those professions, all the people who enjoy each of those distinct professions have a different set of distinct personality traits, in common. Have your kids take those tests, and some of them may be suited to what you'd like, and others might be suited for professions you don't like. Sure, you'll love them if they're social workers or policemen, but it might be easier on you if you recognize that human are born with their personality traits ... and that's why sometimes the kids of pacifists and peace activists might prefer to be soldiers ... strange but true, it depends the cards you're dealt when sperm and egg meet.
Missing Blue Sky: Because I think that is the key to happiness. True satisfaction comes from the spark of creation.
counterterrorist: yes, but ONLY for creative personality types, not for accountants or jocks or policemen etc. Get what I mean? It's the MMPI Personality Inventory and it's real useful to see what your kids will like to do based on their individual personalities ... and you won't be disappointed and neither will they, if they going into careers based on personality traits. Plus, you'll avoid a lot of fights, because kids feel intuitively who they are and will resist being forced upriver.
[edit on 26-10-2008 by counterterrorist]
Originally posted by Missing Blue Sky
Missing Blue Sky: The first half of the story was written in a way where I felt like I heard music under your prose. It was like a soundtrack to Michael Jackson's Thriller was playing because of the bounce and rhythm of the language. I sense baroque type music at the end.
counterterrorist: That's neat, and unique. You must be a musician? That's quite a talent to hear music and name it. I hope you get to put some sound tracks to film, or make some youtubes.
Missing Blue Sky: It's interesting, because when I read this, I noticed I read it aloud, and automatically whisper it instead of speak it out. I wonder if that's the way I respond to it's rhythms, the way you hear the sound tracks beneath it.
Missing Blue Sky: I thought it was profoundly sad.
counterterrorist: You felt it.
Missing Blue Sky: I was thoroughly entertained.
counterterrorist: The story was the head on top of the beer blowing off in the wind. I haven't gotten to the alcohol, yet.
Missing Blue Sky: In comments on this thread, you said you live for creativity over money.
counterterrorist: Some call it living. Creativity is a negotiable currency, even a negotiable spiritual currency ... but only among creative people. Artists are traditionally despised in society. That's probably because artists feel ... and feeling is a threat to centralized authority.
Missing Blue Sky: 'live for creativity over money...'
I am trying to teach that to my children.
counterterrorist. There's a high school MMPI psychological inventory (that's the basis of the online dating match services). In high school it's given as a vocational exam. They go to professions, note the personalities traits of the people who enjoy those professions: like, policeman, social worker, priest, dentist, lawyer, accountant, dancer, writer, intelligencer, soldier, etc -- all those professions, all the people who enjoy each of those distinct professions have a different set of distinct personality traits, in common. Have your kids take those tests, and some of them may be suited to what you'd like, and others might be suited for professions you don't like. Sure, you'll love them if they're social workers or policemen, but it might be easier on you if you recognize that human are born with their personality traits ... and that's why sometimes the kids of pacifists and peace activists might prefer to be soldiers ... strange but true, it depends the cards you're dealt when sperm and egg meet.
Missing Blue Sky: Because I think that is the key to happiness. True satisfaction comes from the spark of creation.
counterterrorist: yes, but ONLY for creative personality types, not for accountants or jocks or policemen etc. Get what I mean? It's the MMPI Personality Inventory and it's real useful to see what your kids will like to do based on their individual personalities ... and you won't be disappointed and neither will they, if they going into careers based on personality traits. Plus, you'll avoid a lot of fights, because kids feel intuitively who they are and will resist being forced upriver.
[edit on 26-10-2008 by counterterrorist]
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