"De Programming" of Islamic Extremists , page 1

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Topic started on 20-10-2008 @ 12:37 AM by Simplynoone

I came across this article today and I was wondering what you all think about them doing something like this ? It is in the UK not here (at least maybe not) And if you say you would not mind if they do it to an extremist what about when it is your turn , And you are considered the extremist in a prison somewhere ?
They want to deprogram his BELIEFS ...can you believe they are going to go this far ..Seriously I realize that some people are really messed up in the head and I really dont have an answer on what should be done with them .....but this is really taking it too far I think .....

Another question ..does anyone know how this works and if it works at all ?

Muslim fanatic prisoners to be 'de-programmed' using controversial techniques to 'cure' them of beliefs
www.thisislondon.co.uk... re%27+them+of+beliefs/article.do

The article says that because they are bullying people into converting to Islam .....thats why they feel the need to do this .
And before you any of you start saying yeah yeah this is a good thing ...what if they decide someday that your the extremists and this gets done to you to keep you from spreading your beliefs to others ?
This is stepping way over the line of squelching FREE THINKING AND FREE SPEECH dont you think ?

Here is the snippet ...
{In maximum security ‘Category A’ jails such as Whitemoor in Cambridgeshire - the subject today of an exclusive report in Live magazine based on unprecedented access to both prisoners and staff - they make up 35 per cent of the inmates, and have converted numerous other prisoners to Islam.

In Whitemoor the 150 Muslim inmates include 39 who have converted in the jail since early last year. In some cases, officers believe converts have been subjected to bullying and changed their faith because they felt vulnerable.

A Ministry source said that to be a Muslim in jail was now seen as ‘cool’, and while Muslim prisoners once felt isolated and vulnerable, they were now ‘flexing their muscles’. This made it all the more important to ensure that extremist views did not spread.}

reply posted on 20-10-2008 @ 01:21 AM by GirlNextDoor

I was just reading this article before I stopped by here, and I couldn't believe what I was reading. This is scary. Yes, yes, public safety and all that. But...um...what happens when they decide YOUR beliefs are the radical ones? Fighting terror is all fine and good as long as you aren't considered the enemy, right?

I think it's taking it too far.

Hello slippery slope.

reply posted on 20-10-2008 @ 06:59 AM by Harman

Being bullied into believing

that is so impossible it's laughable.

Sure, it is possible that people will say 'sure, i believe in Mohammed as our saviour!' to get the extra protection and all that but good chance that the oppurtunistic ones shed it when they get out. The reason it is impossible to be bullied into believing in this case is that it is possible to get out of jail and be free. In the days of old when the Churches did their aggresive PR campaign there was no way out for the victims, they did not get out of jail and could get killed when not living up to the standards given. Times have changed in the western world so bullied into believing is like using brown paint to paint something green.

reply posted on 20-10-2008 @ 07:27 AM by Thebudweiserstuntman

The de-programming is using cognitive behavioral therapies, nothing controversial there i'm afraid. These therapies have been used to help stop smoking, cure vertigo and phobias for years.

All it does is teach the person to change their associative values i.e. smokers may associate smoking with pleasure, social interaction etc, all a congnitive therapist would do is help 're-programme' these values with, for example, the cost associated with smoking and the negative health benefits.

In the terms of radical Islam all they're probably doing is teaching them to question their motives and 're-programme' with rational values instead of associating Islam with killing in the name of Allah.

Seems like sensationalist journalism to me, making a story out of nothing.

reply posted on 20-10-2008 @ 09:01 AM by Simplynoone

{'re-programme' with rational values instead of associating Islam with killing in the name of Allah.}

And that brings up another question then .

Who will determine what a rational value is ?
Using that mindset then any one of us could be subject to this .Like Christians,Athiests ,New Agers,Masons etc ,...dont you think ?
All of the above have a different idea of what they consider rational values .

It is just like when Bush said he will determine who or who is not a terrorist.
Well we can all see that his idea of a terrorists is totally different than what the general population things a terrorist would be (For instance Bush thinks anyone who is against him is a terrorist ) ....

reply posted on 20-10-2008 @ 09:11 AM by Thebudweiserstuntman

reply to post by Simplynoone

I'm pretty sure replacing the value - Kill all non-beleivers - with a value such as Everyone has the right to their own belief without fear of death, would be a good place to start!

reply posted on 20-10-2008 @ 09:59 AM by Thebudweiserstuntman

reply to post by Simplynoone

Just to clarify, i agree with your premise, however I think that the article is just a peice of sensationalistic journalism to fill up column space.

reply posted on 21-10-2008 @ 04:12 AM by Astyanax

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman

The de-programming is using cognitive behavioral therapies, nothing controversial there i'm afraid. These therapies have been used to help stop smoking, cure vertigo and phobias for years.

That's right.

Except that I'd have said 'used rather unsuccessfully to help stop...'

I suspect that psychology is about as scientific as voodoo, and about as effective too.

reply posted on 21-10-2008 @ 10:03 AM by Thebudweiserstuntman

reply to post by Astyanax

Can't argue with you there i'm afraid! Pretty much spot on. Plus in the case of terrorists i'm sure there has to be willpower involved in there somewhere. if they don't want to change then it won't work.

reply posted on 21-10-2008 @ 12:34 PM by Skyfloating

De-Programming faith-based-fanatics isnt really effective...unless they consent to it...but if they consent to it they are already open to letting go of their old beliefs...which means that the "de-programming" was only used by them as a bridge to do what they wanted to do anyway.

De-Programming is not effective because its extremely difficult to impose ones own values/beliefs on someone else unless they want that. In fact, it could have the opposite effect of ingraining their convictions even more.

The only way it would be succesful is by using advanced trickery (which would involve not telling the person he is being de-programmed in the first place!)

[edit on 21-10-2008 by Skyfloating]

reply posted on 26-10-2008 @ 01:41 AM by DrLove

I read the first page of the holy koran and it called for the castration of all non believers. So I closed the book. People who come from societies who accept islam may not be able to be de programmed. Being islam=acceptance of tribe and acceptance of tribe=prosperity and non acceptance=death punishment. In the world they come from, doing as islam clerics command may be neccesary for survival. Its a simple survival skill. People flock to their own religions in the united states with much less severe penalties. We don't have town tribes or tribal leaders, we have churches and families. And yet they will blindly believe (blind faith) what a book says. No matter how outlandish the stories. And all religions have stories. Christianity doesn't say to kill those who don't believe, it just says god will punish you if jesus doesn't save you. Here a tribal leader may not find you a job, but maybe you prayed and got that job, and both persons will praise their praying or leader for helping them.

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