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If Obama is elected, can we finally get rid of Affirmative Action?

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posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by CreeWolf
 


Are you kidding? It was affirmative action in housing that cost us this last trillion. They'll find entirely new ways to spread this disease.




posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 05:10 PM
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Not to mention, we can finally see the demise of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

I guess that would be one good thing about an Obama victory, but the negatives still outweigh the positives.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
Since AA breeds inequality in of itself, then it's not really a true method of encouraging equality amongst every citizen.


Agreed. But it's not the purpose of AA to encourage equality. The purpose of AA is to make up for discrimination. It's a stop-gap method. When we know equality; when we, as a country, stop being prejudiced and racist, there will be no need for AA. It would become obsolete.

That's just how I see it.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Eloquently put.


That fact that this nation is still dealing with racial disparities and stereotypes only reinforces the fact that it is not ready to move beyond the subject of race relations.

It's a sad reality.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 05:35 PM
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People only use Race as a crutch because they are too weak to do anything for themselves.

I say let them rot. I for one have had enough of holding people on my back from 13 years of football growing up lol

but no ... really



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by CreeWolf
 




I hope you didn't let them know that you were female when you checked the "white box" as AA also is in place to help woman. Furthermore, I wonder if you couldn't pass for "white", would you be so inclined to take issue with AA?



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The purpose of AA is to make up for discrimination


Oh yeah I know, I understand that part.

It's just; why is discrimination bad? Why is it a problem to begin with?

Equality. Discrimination is a hindrance to equality. AA doesn't address Equality, which is the root issue.

AA helps alleviate the discrimination of people who are discriminated against, and doing so discriminates against the people who are not. Which is why I had said earlier it is indirectly addressing the real issue; which is equality.

It may help even the battlefield so to speak, but it is still counter-intuitive to the very thing it is trying to fix.


[edit on 20-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 07:56 PM
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I didn't know white people were so bothered by AA. Even native Americans hate it. I don't even think about it. I didn't vote for that law. My take on Afirmitive Action is that not only does it provide opportunity it provides diversity. I lived near The Universtiy of Michigan and it is predomaintly white. I know at that time they used AA, but even still I think I saw 5 black kids. So whatever they do with AA I don't care. The world will still be racist.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by CreeWolf
 

I have read somewhere that Sen. Obama supports initiating a program of free higher education for blacks as part of a reparations for slavery deal. I believe that this has to do with a claim of racial education level inequality.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by ORIPEIA
 


Hahaha! I'm NOT female. If I am, I am one ugly gal (and probably a member of N.O.W.) Anyway, the picture is me, and I DO have long hair, but I AM male. The pic was chosen because I was making fun of the "emo" disease affecting our youth.


As for your other question. Yes, I believe I would. I CAN pass for being white and have seen both sides of it. I've been mocked for holding on to my Cree heritage, I've been called "injun", I've been discriminated against by whites, blacks, and asians. I have been told by blacks that I should hate white people because of what happened with the settling of North America by Europeans. They do not understand why I do not hold on to that. When I try to explain that I think my life has been bettered by this (health care, technology, etc), they call me a sell-out (even by my own people). Successful blacks get called names by other blacks if they try to "assimilate" to mainstream America (ever heard the term "oreo", black on the outside but white on the inside?)

The biggest problem with getting rid of Affirmative Action is people who do not like what they are. If you were truly secure with who you are, why would you not try to be successful according to a set of laws? You don't see hoards of blacks (with the freedom to do so) buying one-way tickets to Africa now that they can do you? Why? At anytime I could go back to my reservation, live in a tepee, carve a totem pole, and live in the mountains and never have to see another white person again. I choose not to because I LIKE capitalism. I like my job. I like health care. I like computers, TV, radio, automobiles, etc.

I do what the "man" wants me to so that I can enjoy the benefits of what people have brought to this country and I wouldn't leave unless you forced me to. I served in the military alongside whites, blacks, asians, latinos who chose to ENLIST VOLUNTARILY to fight for this way of life. I am no better than the white, black, asian, latino. Unfortunately, I don't think Affirmative Action will go away because individuals within the different races don't agree.

If I wanted you to be Cree, what would you tell me?



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


When will I see programming on BET "12%" black? Basketball teams "12% black?

Heck, how many Cree Indians are there on Primetime TV right now?



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 12:43 AM
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Here in Texas I'm white and english speaking which makes me techinically the minority... yet no one is handing out "Affermitive Action" to me.

The whole concept is ludicious, no group shoudl be handed more than another, even if it is in the interest of helping them out.

I've observed that within a given demographic, there's as many if not more internal factors preventing them from suceeding than there are outsiders keeping them down.

There could be, proportionalyl speaking, just as many "failures" found within the white race, but I don't see them talked abotu as much.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by asmeone2]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 03:04 AM
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I'm a white man I'm voting for Obama and I voted for George Bush the past two elections.

One of the reasons I'm voting for Obama is because he is an African American.

Much of the world believes Americans are racist. Unlike many people here, I believe what the rest of the world thinks of us is important.

Many of the African Americans believe we are racist - lets prove them wrong. Maybe they will see us differently - at least some will.

I too am tired of Affirmative action and it's use as an excuse these days and at this point I believe it only aids in dividing us further.

I see voting for Obama not necessarily a chance for a black man to run one of the most powerful nations ever on earth, but a chance for his African American brothers who are amongst us to realize that only they can hold themselves back from success.

When a school child see's he can do anything he can imagine - he will.

I agree race should no longer be a determining factor when deciding who needs help - it should be based solely on need.

Of course there are many other reasons I'm voting for Obama, but yes his being black is one of them.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by verylowfrequency]



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


Like I said, I hate AA. I agree with you to an extent. It's not a simple issue and you have very good points.
I just think that since the playing field is NOT equal, there has to be SOME way to make it more fair. Leaving the field at a tilt and letting the players work it out isn't a fair option. (IMO) That has not worked. AA doesn't work much better, but it's something. I think some reform is needed.

Ultimately, we need to lose our racism. Education and exposure are the keys to that.


Originally posted by CreeWolf
When will I see programming on BET "12%" black? Basketball teams "12% black?


BET needs to go away, too. When it becomes obsolete; when black people have equal opportunities in the media, it will.

Sports is one place where "the powers" actually have a highly-vested interest in having the absolute BEST people on the team. It's one segment of our society where the BEST get chosen, regardless of their skin color. Skin color DOES NOT MATTER. Only ability. And if your ability is a tiny bit more than the other guy, you're going to get chosen for the team, white, black, blue or green. I hate sports, but it's the one place where AA isn't needed.

GENERALLY, In a discriminating society, when a company has the choice of 2 fairly equally qualified people, it has been shown that the white boss will generally will choose the white guy, because if one is a little better than the other, it's not really going to make a difference in the bottom line of the company like it might in the bottom line of the sports team. (that extra point can win a championship)

(Then, there's the subject of schooling opportunities for urban kids that is another subject entirely.)



Heck, how many Cree Indians are there on Primetime TV right now?


Dude!
I want to see Cree Indians on TV, too!
I want to see a true representation of our country in all aspects of society. We're moving toward that.
(I am lucky enough to live in a small southwest town that is a microcosm of the country. We have every race here, represented in just about proper proportions to the whole. It's fantastic.)



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 09:52 AM
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AA isn't offsetting racism, its feeding the fire. How many lawsuits have there been accusing someone of not hiring a person because of the color of their skin? How many times have you heard someone say they can't get a good job because of the color of their skin? What happened to bucking up and working hard to get ahead?

I used to work construction and my foreman was told that since he did not have a minority on his crew he would have to fire someone to open a slot on his crew for someone of a differant race. I was the low man on the totem pole and got the boot. I did get a sincere apology from the foreman though. As far as I'm concerned this is a form of racism and I was discriminated against.

As long as AA is around this will continue to happen. I wonder when hard work and determination took a back seat to a sense of entitlement.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 10:08 AM
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As long as AA is around this will continue to happen. I wonder when hard work and determination took a back seat to a sense of entitlement.


That was around 1963. Good intensions gone bad in a crazy world!
It has nothing to do with equality either. Its used to make sure we keep a smoldering displeasure between the races. It is used to controll by slight of hand in our government. Its wrong and now has become the mainstream area of contension amonst the masses.

Zindo



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 11:30 AM
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Any kind of discrimination should be frowned upon period.

Including reverse discrimination.


AA seeks to get rid of discrimination for minorities while creating discrimination against whites.

Don't sound fair to me.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 01:17 PM
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I don't think it will be the end of AA. AA is a state level issue so it will have to be dismantled state by state. I very much doubt my state will get rid of it.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 04:19 PM
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Sandra D O'Connor was wrong on her tie breaking vote in the University of Michigan case. Indeed Affirmative Action should be ended if Obama is elected. It should have been ended years ago. Young whites think they are black, act black, its worked. Thanks to the US government we are one. What a joke.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 05:02 PM
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I believe it is completely un-American to have to state your race on any form of application. Race should not matter when applying for a job or for schools, if we are really proclaiming Affirmative Action to be fighting racism then race should not be a factor either way.

I hate it because I know that every time I check off "White" on an application I'm risking not getting that job. Racial discrimination goes both ways people.

If Obama wins the election I don't want to hear ONE WORD about affirmative action, racism, inequality or anything about the "White man" oppressing the "Black man" as it is obviously no longer true.



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