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If Obama is elected, can we finally get rid of Affirmative Action?

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posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:28 AM
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Just a thought.....

If Obama gets elected, will Affirmative Action go?

I think it would be safe to say that a black man CAN go as far as a white man in this country if we elect Obama as our President. Can we then get rid of all these silly rules when it comes to getting a job, filling out college financial aid papers, and everything else where being a minority "gets you points"?

Will Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton finally shut up?

I very much look forward to thoughts on this issue!



[edit on 20-10-2008 by CreeWolf]




posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:32 AM
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Wow .. I like this one too !

Another OP that's Starred and Flagged


ATS is looking up !!


Great post !



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:00 AM
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I sure as hell hope so, I am so sick of affirmative action, or anything that gives someone a leg up just because of the color of their skin.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:15 AM
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The headline says it all. Nothing more needs to be said.
Awsome thought. Worthy of debate. I agree with op and would love to hear some honest,open debate on this.
Star and flag



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:17 AM
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Affirmative action will increase and we will have quotas and fines also, why would you think that affirmative action would go away...



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:25 AM
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well this is the problem and why i dont bother to join these debates.

racism exist people. you get it or you dont. people are programed to think this or that just as you do by mentioning AA as if it has even made much of a difference in anything. think of the reason it was created. you think this is make believe

I know no people of color that have benefited or attempted to from AA. Yes people still judge based on race but if your white you wont get it, its going to be excuse's, laziness, blah blah to you . ive been egged, jumped,arrested,harassed,chased,accused of theft and a used book store wont buy my books telling me they were stolen because im black. obama just shows that a good man is a good man . so i say no



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:37 AM
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Well, I kind of disagree, just because some one of color is elected to the white house does not mean that the racial problems will instantly disappear. Specifically, those in job hiring practices. There are businesses and people who will not hire someone because of the color of their skin. Affirmative action just doesn't cover African-Americans but people of all different races, creeds and backgrounds.
Maybe one day when ignorance towards people of color is completely extinguished, then yeah, get rid of it. But, until then, it's in place to help those who have worked hard and are qualified, who cannot get a job because of their skin.
I cannot sit here and argue that Affirmative action isn't without it's flaws, it no doubt has it's Achilles heel(s) and impacts on all people of all races.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:40 AM
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I took the liberty to try to answer my own question. South Africa and "Apartheid" came to mind. Remember the 80's and Nelson Mandela? You see practically nothing about South Africa in our media these days. Why?

Scrolling down this list might help explain:

South Africa's Chronological List of Presidents

One possible answer brings up more questions. How does this apply to the United States and its own laws once Obama is elected? Which direction will that take this country?




posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:41 AM
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If elected Do you think McCain will or will not get rid of Affirmative Action?
 


I for one have always opposed it. I oppose it for African-Americans and I oppose it for angry Cree Indians, and the whole melting pot. I understand the idea behind it, but I don't think it works in accordance to my belief in civil equality.

So I hope if either candidate gets elected, that they will take measures to abolish it.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
If elected Do you think McCain will or will not get rid of Affirmative Action?
 


I for one have always opposed it. I oppose it for African-Americans and I oppose it for angry Cree Indians, and the whole melting pot. I understand the idea behind it, but I don't think it works in accordance to my belief in civil equality.

So I hope if either candidate gets elected, that they will take measures to abolish it.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]


I oppose it for Angry Cree Indians too, and I hope that wasn't supposed to fire me up!


The job I have--I have had for 6 years. When I filled out the job application, I checked the box next to "white/caucasian" because I did NOT want to be a part of that quota bs. I actually got it on my own merits (and possible good looks--j/k).

You and I have disagreed in the past but on this one I agree


[Edit to answer your question] NO. I don't think McCain would abolish it. I hope he would, but I think it would send a much better message if Barack Obama abolished it as President. That would get him another bookmark in the history books, send a stronger message, and do more to "unite" this broken nation! Please note. My "opinion".

[edit on 20-10-2008 by CreeWolf]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 02:23 AM
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reply to post by CreeWolf
 


Fire you up? Would you respond to me more often if I fire you up first!?


No. That was me instilling impartiality into this thread!


I am one third Cherokee myself, and so I also qualified for exercising extra privileges throughout my life here in the States. I never agree with them, and I never take advantage of it.

Affirmative Action on the surface seems to make sense in that it elevates certain people who are under privileged to a position where they are equal with the rest, and thus is supports equality indirectly.

The problem is that by doing so it breeds and fosters inequality as well. Qualified and deserving people are often enough denied what they would have otherwise not have been, because they were required to give it to another person solely because of Affirmative Action. That's just one quick example I could give.

First and foremost, I believe the best thing we can do for Equality is to directly support equal civil rights and opportunities for every citizen. Any other approach is a bandaid on an open wound. imho.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:26 PM
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While I am not a supporter of affirmative action, you have to keep this in mind when debating the issue.

Whether AA exists or not, strctural elements do exist in many of our country's institutions and organizations that make it impossible for certain people to get anywhere BECAUSE of their race.

So while AA is by no means a remedy to the solution, the notion that a black man can get as far as a white man and have it be the rule rather than the exception, is pure fantasy. Color-blindness is a very dangerous prism to look through, indeed.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:59 PM
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Affirmative action is fine if it doesn't revert to reverse discrimination. That is the problem here. Quotas and alignment with race will always cause more problems than it solves. The problems of race between the masses will always be a situation in our lifetimes and maybe beyond that time, but some of the fixes are worse than the problems and cause intrinsic hatred to come to the forefront. All races have blame in this respect. I know of no way to remedy the situation either. Tolerance is in short supply and the use of race to divide should be called for what it is, cowardly!!

Zindo



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by CreeWolf
I think it would be safe to say that a black man CAN go as far as a white man in this country if we elect Obama as our President. Can we then get rid of all these silly rules when it comes to getting a job, filling out college financial aid papers, and everything else where being a minority "gets you points"?

Will Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton finally shut up?


I do not like either Sharpton or Jackson. Never did. I do not like AA. However, I find your "logic" specious -- in and by itself, and the fact that it hinges on Obama being in the campaign.

Obama is an inspiring example for blacks (I would think) but the fact that he's getting elected does not negate the existing racial inequalities. Simply put, Obama is no more average black than Joe the Plumber is the average plumber. Again, I'd rather do away with AA, but using Obama's words, we should use a scalpel and not a hatchet.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:11 PM
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This thread was doing well. I originally posted this in the Election 2008 forum because I thought it was a current issue. I don't understand why it was moved to the "Political Issues". Even Newsweek supports the contention that it is a current ELECTION 2008 issue!

Newsweek, Obama's Affirmative Action Test!

I also cannot locate the original tags I posted for this thread (Obama, Affirmative Action). Has anybody seen them?

[Edit to remove my visible displeased reaction to getting thread moved by Maria_Stardust]

[edit on 20-10-2008 by CreeWolf]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 04:39 PM
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Affirmative Action will likely be around for quite a while still.
Everyone wants to be "Equal", but when people get an advantage- They'll be tight up to let go of it.
Not meaning to be offensive- But, I'm Canadian. Do you think we'll ever be able to stop repaying Native Americans, or providing them with reserves?
Or, fishing or hunting rights?
Do you think we'll ever make them pay taxes like every other citizen?

No.

Because there would be a massive uproar over it.
Civil equality will never happen- Because no one ever lets a damn thing go.

"We'll all take eye for an eye until no one can see, and we'll stumble blindly for mistakes in our repeated history."

Civil equality never existed, and I doubt we'll ever see it.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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No, we still need it for the rest of the minorities that have yet to reach the highest pinnacle of success.

What you have just read above will be the argument for the side that wish to keep affirmative action in place.

I say get rid of it and base everything on who is best qualified. No more quotas.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 04:51 PM
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Interesting question and some great answers!

I hate AA! I wish it were gone today. BUT!!!

Approximately 12% of the US population is black.

When 12% of the Corporate CEOs are black
When 12% of Congress is black
When 12% of men in jail are black
When 12% of deadbeat dads are black
When 12% of US presidents are black

THEN it will be time to rid ourselves of Affirmative Action.

(Of course I don't mean exactly 12%, but a reasonable representation, proving that we give all people equal opportunity.)

But until we have proven ourselves to be a country that doesn't discriminate against people who aren't white men, then I think there's a place for it. I hate "reverse" racism. And ANY social program is going to be taken advantage of. But having one man make it to the presidency is not proof that discrimination is gone. But it's a GOOD SIGN that we're headed in the right direction.


FYI, I would LOVE it of JJ and Sharpton shut up!



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


The problem with that approach is that after anything causes another imbalance then AA would just have to be reinstated. It would become intrinsic to the process. It would be a cycle. Since AA breeds inequality in of itself, then it's not really a true method of encouraging equality amongst every citizen. We need a another approach, that discourages discrimination against minority, but at the same time does so without elevating civil rights and opportunities above other citizens.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by CreeWolf
 


Why is everyone so up in arms over affirmative action. It was set in place for a reason. If you think about it, the inequities that were battled during the Civil Rights movement were not too terribly long ago in the grand scheme of things.

Affirmative action has its' place in our social system to off set the disparities that have run rampant for far to long. At long last, the effects of affirmative action can be observed through the multicultural diversity present in our education system, which in turn has diversified the government and corporate workforce. It all works out in the end.

I can see affirmative actions programs being phased out sometime in the not to distant future, but not right away. It's still to soon for that.

BTW, I fail to see how affirmative action is an elections platform issue. A political issue, sure. An election issue, not so much. Just trying to figure out why you're so upset.



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