Mexico: "We've Had Enough of America's Stupid War on Drugs"

[link to www.alternet.org]

As the Violence Soars, Mexico Signals It's Had Enough of America's Stupid War on Drugs

By Silja J.A. Talvi, AlterNet. Posted October 14, 2008.

The U.S.-financed War on Drugs has had savage results in Mexico, and now its president wants to decriminalize pot, coc aine and heroin possession. Tools

Even on his most homicidal of days, Al Pacino's character in Scarface couldn't even approach the level of drug trafficking-related brutality bleeding down Mexico's streets. It is no longer unusual for the Mexican news media to report on yet another, freshly decapitated head stuck atop a fencepost or a metal spike, or a garbage bag filled with body parts, usually with a hand-scrawled note or placard attached. That amounts to a cartel's calling card, and it's usually delivered in the form of a warning to a rival cartel, or for the Mexican authorities to stay away and stop seizing their drugs. Other times, it's just a chilling placard intended to strike terror into the hearts of the people who come across the gory scene and the text: "Ha Ha Ha." To be sure that their message is heard, cartels are known to send regular text messages to newspaper reporters, place newspaper advertisements, or to even upload their own killing videos (sometimes accompanied by narco-corridos as background music) to YouTube.

Mexican drug cartels are, rather effectively, fighting the government's War on Drugs with their own War of Terror, often swelling their ranks (and combat/terror tactics) with former members of law enforcement. The Zetas, for instance, are members of former Mexican counter-narcotics squads (some with U.S.-assisted training under their belts), who have become the self-proclaimed and much-feared hit men of the Gulf cartel.

So far this year, roughly 3,500 murders have been directly attributed to the drug war in Mexico, surpassing last year's estimate of 2,500. (These numbers include the murders of at least 500 soldiers, cops, judges, politicians -- and their family members -- in nearly two years. The drug war rages across Mexico's urban and (mostly) rural terrain, and murders are usually targeted toward pronounced rivals, but increasing numbers of victims are innocent bystanders, including women and children who were previously considered off-limits where acts of drug war-related retaliation were concerned.

Reports of attacks are rolling in daily, sometimes several times a day. This Sunday, unidentified gunmen shot up the United States consulate in the northern Mexican city of Monterrey. While no injuries were reported there because the consulate was closed, six young adults attending a private celebration were killed on Saturday in the violence-and-drug-plagued Mexican border state of Chihuahua, in Ciudad Juárez. Those murders, as yet unsolved, followed on the heels of 11 homicides in a Chihuahua bar, when a gunman opened fire on unsuspecting patrons, including a prominent journalist who may or may not have been a specific target.

It should be of note that much of the worst drug war violence is happening right at the border: Tijuana, adjacent to San Diego, saw nearly 40 people murdered in the last week of September alone, in addition to nearly 25 deaths of male and female prisoners the previous week due to two major riots at the vastly overcrowded Tijuana State Prison. (Prisoners alleged frequent incidents of torture and sexual violence, sometimes leading to death, at the hands of guards.)

American newspapers located in border cities and states tend to report some of the more gruesome events and mass killings, but the rest of this country seems remarkably in the dark about what's happening to our Mexican neighbors, much less the fact that the violence has increased dramatically since U.S. drug war dollars have increased in the form of support for Mexican President Felipe Calderón's militarily-minded crackdown on trafficking, with the goal of dismantling the cartels' leadership apparatus, as well as breaking apart close alliances between local authorities, cops, and drug traffickers. (Corruption in Mexican law enforcement and military is epidemic; consider that many police officers in Mexico make no more than $5,000 per year.)

Since President Calderón took office in December 2006, he has authorized large-scale troop deployments (roughly 30,000 troops), in an attempt to diminish the power lorded over Mexico and its citizens by rival Gulf and Sinaloa cartels, as well as affiliates like La Familia, which has earned a reputation for particularly memorable and gruesome acts, including the night that five decapitated heads were thrown onto a dance floor packed with people.





Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.

Thank you for your compliance and understanding.

[edit on 10/21/2008 by kinglizard]

I would say that would be an interesting experiment to legalize drugs. But I think this is highly unlikely as acceptance of certain laws is a requirement for things such as the UN and trade and stuff like that. I think Mexico would put itself at risk of alienating key trade partners by doing this.

Wonder what this will add to the mess.

EDINBURG — Authorities in South Texas said today that they won't be intimidated by increasingly violent drug smugglers, announcing a larger Border Patrol presence and that more heavily armed deputies will be authorized to return fire across the Mexican border.

Article Link

Looks like the Border agents are going to attempt to stop backing down against the drug smugglers. Seems like this can only escalate the situation. Given to border situation I don't believe this will do much in stopping the problem.

[edit on 10/19/2008 by roadgravel]

First and foremost, Borders are enforced in other countries.
Anyone trying to cross is shot and the bodies left, effectively deterring border jumpers.
Drugs added to the mix are the reason the world is the way it is.
DRUGS finance the governments of the world. Misinformed, nope.
There are no borders when it comes to DRUGS.
Billions spent on enforcement are not about to be given away.

Video from closed thread
Mexico's Narco Wars

Removed Duplicate Post

Semper

[edit on 10/20/2008 by semperfortis]

Originally posted by ninthaxis
I would say that would be an interesting experiment to legalize drugs. But I think this is highly unlikely as acceptance of certain laws is a requirement for things such as the UN and trade and stuff like that. I think Mexico would put itself at risk of alienating key trade partners by doing this.

Though your politics are correct, legalization of all drugs is the ONLY way to stop the epidemic. Over 80% of serious crimes is because of drugs - but not because of its effect on its users, but because of the illegal underground economy that it creates just as prohibition in 30's did. The whole thing is only real because it's illegal. As soon as it is legalized, the profit incentive is completely gone, for the only reason drugs are so valuable now, is because of their portrayed scarcity due to the risks of dealing with them. As soon as you remove the profit you literally over night end gangs because the only purpose of a gang is to protect a major drug racket. No more gang violence, no more people robbing tens of thousands from society in exchange for just hundreds of dollars worth of drugs, no more over doses from unregulated drug production and distribution.

Once you eliminate 80% of crime that is DIRECTLY caused by the fact that drugs *are* illegal, you then turn those billions into treating people with real drug problems. That is the only true way to make this world much, much better, and it would practically happen over night if such a thing were to occur, especially in the US.

But, your government is more concerned about destroying your rights, controlling you, dumbing you down, and completely raping you in every way they can - and thus not concerned about 'true' answers to the problems. Additionally they make money through corporations and CIA, FBI, and Military drug rackets, who are the predominant mass suppliers of all drugs into US and Canada.

If you are interested in this subject read The New Prohibition: Voices of dissent challenge the drug war, its writen by LEAP, Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. Even they know the war is not the answer, and it is infact yet another endless war.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by king9072]

The Associated Press

Sun, Oct 19, 2008 (5:54 p.m.)

U.S. drug czar John Walters said Friday that Mexico's drug cartels are crossing the border to kidnap and kill inside the United States, and promised that an anti-drug aid package to help Mexico to fight the gangs will be ready soon.

Walters, the director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, was in Mexico for two days to discuss efforts with local officials to stem killings, weapons trafficking and money laundering by Mexican cartels and their U.S. associates.

"Some of these groups not only engage in crime and violence not only in Mexico and along the border, but they come across and kidnap, murder and carry out assassinations," Walters told reporters. "These groups do not respect the border."

Walters said some of the US$400 million in U.S. drug aid approved for Mexico earlier this year under the Merida Initiative could be ready in a matter of days.

Walters praised Mexican President Felipe Calderon for mounting a police and army offensive against the cartels, whom he called "terrorist criminals."

"They have a choice: Come in and face justice, or die," he said of the drug gangs.

He also said the United States did not object to the Calderon administration's current legislative proposal to allow people caught with small amounts of some drugs to seek drug treatment rather than prison terms.

"There has been an impression left that this is legalizing the possession of amounts of drugs. That is not what Mexican officials tell me the bill does," Walters said. "For the lower quantity, for use, you will still face jail time, you'll be given an option if you're an addict to get treatment."

"I think the parameters and the intentions, that is exactly what we do in the United States."

But Walters accused countries such as Bolivia and Venezuela of failing to cooperate in the fight against drug trafficking, and said drug corruption has penetrated Venezuela's government.

"I think everybody knows that this rot is setting in on wider and wider portions of Venezuela government, and the Venezuelan government shows no sign it's responding. It's going to get worse," he said.

He said Bolivia's coc aine production is not hurting the United States _ where little Bolivian coc aine is shipped _ but is contributing to drug problems in Brazil, Argentina, Europe and other places.

Venezuela and Bolivia both insist they can combat drug trafficking without U.S. help. Venezuela's Hugo Chavez recently called Walters "stupid" for saying coc aine smuggling through Venezuela had quadrupled in four years.

[link to www.lasvegassun.com]

The Associated Press

Sun, Oct 19, 2008 (5:54 p.m.)

U.S. drug czar John Walters said Friday that Mexico's drug cartels are crossing the border to kidnap and kill inside the United States, and promised that an anti-drug aid package to help Mexico to fight the gangs will be ready soon.

Walters, the director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, was in Mexico for two days to discuss efforts with local officials to stem killings, weapons trafficking and money laundering by Mexican cartels and their U.S. associates.

"Some of these groups not only engage in crime and violence not only in Mexico and along the border, but they come across and kidnap, murder and carry out assassinations," Walters told reporters. "These groups do not respect the border."

Walters said some of the US$400 million in U.S. drug aid approved for Mexico earlier this year under the Merida Initiative could be ready in a matter of days.

Walters praised Mexican President Felipe Calderon for mounting a police and army offensive against the cartels, whom he called "terrorist criminals."

"They have a choice: Come in and face justice, or die," he said of the drug gangs.

He also said the United States did not object to the Calderon administration's current legislative proposal to allow people caught with small amounts of some drugs to seek drug treatment rather than prison terms.

"There has been an impression left that this is legalizing the possession of amounts of drugs. That is not what Mexican officials tell me the bill does," Walters said. "For the lower quantity, for use, you will still face jail time, you'll be given an option if you're an addict to get treatment."

"I think the parameters and the intentions, that is exactly what we do in the United States."

But Walters accused countries such as Bolivia and Venezuela of failing to cooperate in the fight against drug trafficking, and said drug corruption has penetrated Venezuela's government.

"I think everybody knows that this rot is setting in on wider and wider portions of Venezuela government, and the Venezuelan government shows no sign it's responding. It's going to get worse," he said.

He said Bolivia's coc aine production is not hurting the United States _ where little Bolivian coc aine is shipped _ but is contributing to drug problems in Brazil, Argentina, Europe and other places.

Venezuela and Bolivia both insist they can combat drug trafficking without U.S. help. Venezuela's Hugo Chavez recently called Walters "stupid" for saying coc aine smuggling through Venezuela had quadrupled in four years.

[link to www.lasvegassun.com]

Everything I post DDoouubblleess

Everything I post DDoouubblleess

Yes, thats true - Venezuela does not have o problem with it.

On the other hand, why to not take seriously ENCOD and do not try to think that the solutions are very simple, heal not punish the users

Then, the business would be impossible
and the problem would go to the past.

Oh, I forgot - US has too many prisons they cannot be empty.
But I think, US gov. will find a new "war on sth" - maybe just playing a dolls by a little boys ?

Once again - Encod has a really good idea to solve the problem. But, no business is possible without prohibition, so this would be too dangerous to some persons.

This is the Mexican culture that we are allowing into our country: Drug War terror in Mexico
Quote

This is just a mini preview of the culture of Mexican criminals and what we can expect as more and more illegals cross into the US and bring this along with them.


[link to www.timesonline.co.uk]

Drug war terror spreads in Mexico as bodies are dumped in tourist areas



Another day brings another funeral in Mexico. The death toll from violence has already passed 2,700 this year
Chris Ayres in Los Angeles

Eleven decapitated bodies have been found outside the city of Merida on the Yucatan peninsula, heightening fears that Mexico's recent descent into violence has reached even heavily protected tourist areas. ...

In an incident two years ago, several severed heads were rolled across the floor of a nightclub in the southern state of Michoacan. Earlier this week, four decapitated bodies were found in Tijuana, across the border from San Diego....


Critics say this is wishful thinking. The resurgence of drug overlords in Mexico — along with endemic corruption in the police force and military - has led to a near-nationwide collapse in security. In May, the country's chief of police was murdered and, according to a recent study, Mexico now has more kidnappings than Iraq and Columbia...


[edit on 21-10-2008 by delta33]

The war on drugs is a waste of money. addicts belong in hospitals because they are sick, not in prison with people who intentionally hurt other people. When we illegalized alcohol in this country it created a violent underworld with no supervision. We had to legalize it. Do you think there would be gangs smuggling alcohol now? any one dying of alcohol? NO thats ridiculous, its legal, and therefore no reason to go to gang leaders to get it. Legalize drugs, you delete a ton of violence.

Without a complete economic collapse the War on Drugs will never end.

There are forces even more powerful than the drug cartels..

The huge out of control law enforcement machine. What would we do with all these police with two thirds less crime? We'd have to fire two thirds of them.

What would we do with all the court palaces, the 120k a year judges, the jails, the prisons and the uneducated jailers who work 80 hours a week in order to get enough overtime to make 100k a year and pad their retirements? They are the largest single expenditure in our government today. Just the DOC 's most states alone eat up half state budgets.

They have too much voting power and too much influence. As the war on drugs continues the real crimes of the century will never be solved because nobody is looking anywhere else - there's no immediate easy reward like they get from chasing drugs.

The only war is the war for your money and the criminal justice system is winning.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by verylowfrequency]

I'm goping to see how many ways I can come up with that the ending of the Moronic War on Drugs would benefit the world...

1: Gangs would become almost non existant with legalized drug sales

2: the source of funds for 90% of the worlds petty dictators (including in america) would dry up

3: taxation would cover most of our social welfare programs and largely eradicate the debate on the subject

4: Cancer rates would fall dramatically as pesticide sprayed drugs no longer were fed to the population... let alone defoliants the dea uses on them...

5: proper instruction on the use fo drugs would save countless lives

6: the crime rate would be cut to a minimum over night

7: There can be NO police state without a source of funds for a police state... right now those funds come from the war on drugs... say goodbye to social police

8: We would have no purpose in afghanastan if the heroin trade was eliminated and people who were educated in the safe use fo drugs wouldn't want Heroin

9: Drug testing eliminated, people wuld revert back to more harmless substances, like Marijuana right now coke and meth are used by ops, military and other public officials and PARENTS who wish to avoid drug tests

10: The economy would be boosted if people on drugs could go out and spend money...i.e. get the munchies, go to a movie etc, etc...

11: without drug gangs terrorists wouldn't have a drop of aid in our hemisphere in terms of supply lines into America

12: Public taxed businesses would control the drug trade yet more useable income

13: Drugs could be researched to make them... non addictive, less harmful and more fun to and safer to use, this would include human enhancement properties where right no human destruction is the norm

14: Domestic violence would take a sharp fall as people were no longer hidden in thier homes

15: drug use also in clubs...as oppossed to houses woul cause less deaths and overdoses and also stimulate the economy by people being out spending money

16: people, ordinary citizens, most of us, would have less reason to fear the police and real crimes would be reported mopre often

17: freed from social policeing the cops could concentrate as they should on murder, rape, pedophilles and other heinous crimes

18: The prison population would decrease dramatically, and save tax payers again..tons more money

19: Almost every citizen alive would no longer be a secret Felon at one point or another in his or her life, Millions of Americans would regain the right to VOTE

20: Sub culture would not be driven underground, people would be together in celebration as oppossed to divided

21: Music, Art and sub culture as a whole would flourish, America in particular would go back to being a true creative force not a Disney McDonalds contrived industry driven culture that makes gawdy culture for the world to hate

22: People would do drugs again with other people and have life experiences not sit in front od the tube high all day afraid to venture outside.... we could get off the internet and back into the real world

23: simple things like a protest would become safe as the police would not have an almost automatic excuse to arrest those who protest policy

24: Our neighbors in Latin America would see an end to violence and constant upheaval our region would stabalize and the improved commerce and tourism would benefit all of us

25: Less families would be wrecked when people could get help for addiction, children wouldn't loose as many parents

26: Combined numbers of lives saved from, overdose, drug related eath, disease from tainted product and overall us of better dope would be in the MILLIONS

27: People could recieve a proper dope education and would know for instance that Meth will Kill you and Pot make you sleepy we wouldn't have countless moronic misuses of substances... people would get, pharmacuetical grade stuff in proper doses and be able to get medical supervision for thier health and well being

28: Drugs that actually work and people respond well to...would be popular, drugs that stink.. would not be... people would do drugs by choice not availability... and we would be beter off in a myriad of ways if that happened

29: The finance behind much political corruption would end.. in law enforcement and politics... there would be less profit for those who would sell us all out

30: foot traffic at night would revitalize may small businesses...

31: entire industries based around popular drugs would form

32: Health care would improve as medicinal research was broken free from constraints

33; Political candidates would have one less thing to lie about

34: America would be fun to visit, tourism would go back up.... in mexico and SA also... no fear of being shot, lots of partying to be done = Europeans might actually come spend money in America again and not fear going to jail or being killed

35: The people of the entire 3rd world would be free from the machinations of scum and drug runners

36: No one would close this thread

37: I could get my weed without going through alot of hassles

38: The Taliban would never of had funds...

39: South America would be alot more like Europe by now

40: Few helicoptors over my house at night

41: no need to fear being pulled over for going to the mts or to a lake..etc, etc... or just going outside

42: A CHOICE in how I choose to get high... I would not Have to Drink Booze but could control my head and lifestyle

43: The cost of dope would decrease and the social ills particularly on children would decrease because of that

44: more people would visit the doctor not fearing being caught, health of the nation would improve

45: child labor, forced slavery and forced prostitution would decrease

46: Income from drug crops would benefit the people of nations not cops and thugs

47: demand for medical researches would increase as these highly profitable substance were customized... more jobs for scientists

48: health care profesionals would have better knowledge of how to treat and help those who caused themselves harm, particularly mental harm from misuse of dope

49: People would learn how to control thier minds better if they understood drugs and could use them properly, we would go from being mind controlled to learning how to control our minds

50: relations with South America would improve

51: the gun trade would decrease

52: with less people in American jails 3 of the biggest negative social impacts would Diminish... The nation of Islam, The Aryan Nation and La Famillia

53: We would be a less materialistic and more spiritual nation if psychadelic subtances weren't demonized

54: The rift between parents and teens would decrease

55: Teens would not be forced to do drugs in unspervised unsafe locations

56: Profits from legal dope sales and less violence would slow the flow of illegal immigration from south of the border

57: America is the worlds farm belt...yet another way we would earn money as opposed to waste it...

58: overall divison of class in America would decrease

59: Our coast guard could protect our water from real threats and the dea could be reassigned to look for threats to national security

60: people could be more honest with each other

61: the cops could be our friends again

62: America would have a better image if we didn't hold the largest number of people in prison In The World

63: Half the population wouldn't be in a position to have the govt have leverage over them

54: Anger at the govt would decrease substantially

55: junkies would never have to steal

56: there would be far less junkies as choices were made available and confession of addiction was no longer frightening

57: It wouldn't be dangerous to buy drugs

58: overall stress... as police force waned, violence decrease, fear of arrest vanished would decrease dramatically....

59: There would be some truely awesome dope available with few or no side effects if legalized by now

60: Cultures would integrate with greater ease as they shared common experiences

61: Marijuana would replace booze as the legal high of choice, we'd be a more humane and tolerant society as a result

62: The court system would be less weighted with trivia and more effective at helping people who need it

63: Lawyers would have less power

64: Judges would have less power

65: the Govt itself would have less power

66: Money saved by reduced costs of dope would be spent in the real economy, clothes, gadgets, toys... business would pick up across the nation

67: there would be almost no dirty money circulating around to be used for who knows what heinous purposes

68: I could walk to the Circle K right now and buy a joint...

69: My chikldren won't grow up to hide thier activities from me like i'm some kind of freak

70: My country would be less hated, less laughed at and less victimized

71: I'd never know anyone who freaked out on bunk stuff ever again

72: My cousin would still be alive if he hadn't be up on the roof to go get high and hide it away... fell six stories because he wanted to smoke a silly Joint... sad stuff, but had to hide it from...his own parents

73: Peoples loved ones wont be...dragged off to a cage in the middle of having...a good time.. to be..maybe raped or exposed to horrible germs or worse...killed by some thug

74: Children wouldn't die randomly in thier bedrooms during gang fights over dope money... sitting there playing with toys and WHAM, because some idiot decided that a bag of dope illegal could be made to be worth more than Gold

75: Entire countires wouldn't be war zones...

The war on Drugs... 20 Million in Jail, Millions more dead or overdosed, at least a dozen countires destroyed, America made into a police state fully funded by the tax payers...

Okay... close the thread now...

You know. expose the real illegal war, point at the conspiracy that funds all other conspiracies... dare metion the real issue of why America is under control, what the locus of power really is and how this all came to be...

and be silenced... anywhere



So much talk of conspiracies and what happened to America in here lol... but everytime the graddaddy of them all is mentioned it has to go... here, in the media, anywhere

Go directly to jail...do not pass go, do not collect 200.00

No terrorism without the war on drugs, no economic colapse, no prison state, no scared popultion afraid to satnd up because most of them can be busted at a given moment

War on Drugs...

the reason we are all scared... the mechanism behind it all, the Death of America...

800 threads on Obama vs McCain but niether one will touch it... the real loss of freedom, the real force destroying America... the way the immigrants get in, and lol...the reason the come, the way the terrorists pay for weapons... the way the govt funds it's black ops... the Money that Buys our politicians and leaves us with people who would ell out America, the way the cops are paid for to control us, the reason we stay at home...



Conspracies?

It's all a g-d damned joke if you don't link it all up to the war on dope



[edit on 21-10-2008 by mopusvindictus]

Originally posted by king9072

Though your politics are correct, legalization of all drugs is the ONLY way to stop the epidemic.

In July 02, Portugal legalized all substances and began spending their enforcement budgets on port security and rehab for addicts, The last i heard, it was almost impossible to get most drugs that would be widespread throughout Europe.

The Netherlands has a blind eye policy to Cannabis, small quantities of ecstasy and some other drugs. The only problem here is that the Netherlands has become a playground for drug users from all over Europe because of its centralized location.

In my opinion, all countries should legalize drugs, source them and tax them. This would cut down on the majority of black market problems and leave enforcement budgets open for rehab and border drug control.

I doubt that gangs would just disappear. I think the sheer greed for money and control would motivate them to focus more on their other business ventures. I have noticed that the larger gangs are also heavily involved in arms and sex slave trades. If the drugs were legalized what's to stop the racketeering of drug companies by these same gangs? If the mob does killing for the Government and is on their payroll, isn't it conceivable that they can also sell legalized drugs that 'fell off the truck' at a cheaper price or have the drugs cut and repackaged?

I feel that the violence will not abate. The criminals will just find other ways to make their money. There will always be turf wars, there will always be another gang who wants all the money and control.

Perhaps the only way to end this is to literally kill every gang member as they are met. We know who the members are. We know where they live. Why not start a war on actual gangs? At least you can have a real enemy to fight, not some lofty idea about stopping drug use.

reply to post by shadow watcher


the drugs industry works on the principle of demand and supply, the demand is created before the supply is established. because of this killing off or locking all the drug dealers has no effect on supply or demand. this is the simple reason the drugs war cannot work.

inversely, if demand is satisfied by the white markets then the black market will collapse immediately. this is because the black market inflates the cost of goods to a larger extent than the white market. where goods of good quality, safe standard and cheaper price are available no-one would use the black market.

mexico would be very clever if they were to legalise everything, they would allow themselves a ladder to climb out of the 2nd or 3rd world. if i was mexico i'ld do it tomorrow. the aid and trade the US has offered mexico to date doesn't seem to have been all that helpful given the OP's post.