Atlantis = Gods of the Sumerians?

reply to post by mamasita


Apparently you havn't studied much. The Egyptians had factories. Not like we do today, but still factories. They had water powered saws and were remarkably clever at cutting and using limestone, which is in and of itself a fairly soft stone, and what they used in most of their building.
The Greeks used a lot of Marble later on, a much harder stone, and were able to make, in my opinion, more impressive structures with similar tools.
Constellations help track the passing of the seasons. Certain constellations and stars are only visible during certain parts of the year, and help keep track of when the season are starting to change.
And, like Harte said, they also made horoscopes as well.
For some,it was also holy, worshiping the heavens, you'd learn the Gods by mapping them.

OK lets get this straight - I am NOT making any conclusions - i'm not even saying atlantis exsisted or who created the pyramids I'm simply saying that theres alot of history that doesnt make sense and i'd like to hear other peoples opinons on our history.
Please dont tell me what i do and do not know or critisize me - if you have an opinion - fine state it i'd love to hear it because everyone's got the right to interpretate evidence as they see it but the whole point of this site is to express your theories.
And also no one knows anything with absolute definaty - thats what makes it all so interesting. This isn't a competition about who's right it's about discovering our history - I'd like nothing more than to know that we had the capabilities to make the pyramids - but to me i just don't see how they could've have done it.
Anyone who wants to be a skeptic - that's great everyone is in one way or another but just remember all the scientists and radical thinkers in history that people laughed at.

reply to post by RuneSpider


you know what - i mustn't have studied much because i have heard nothing of these factories or water powered saws.
but also what about the harder rocks such as granite?
and all of this is still a hypothesis - the construction of the pyramids is still not definately known.
if you have proof of how you believe they were built - dont argue with me just show me the evidence i would love to see it.

reply to post by WatchNLearn


yes i read about akhenaton years ago - very fascinating character - if i remember correctly he was married to nefertiti and they might have been the parents to tutankamen - as i said it was a few years ago things might have changed.
I actually just found a fantastic sight on a theoretical timeline you might like
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
not saying its real but it definately made for an interesting read (i call it the alien soap opera)
thanks for the pictures they were great.

reply to post by mamasita


You're going to have to give me a bit to get some resources together, mostly I just read the threads here. I enjoy the research done but it's not a big thing to me as much as when I was younger.

www.theglobaleducationproject.org...

Details cut marks in basalt and granite.

www.geocities.com...

Unfortunately, it's a geocities site, but it details a fair bit of ancient stone cutting practices, as well a detailed diagrams.

www.science-frontiers.com...

More on ancient stone cutting.

findarticles.com...

Lengthy article detailing experiments utilizing Egyptian techniques to cut and shape stone.


There's a thread on here somewhere where Byrd and Harte went into a fair bit of detail into ancient construction techniques. I'll see if I can find it.
Over all, I can't say for sure how the Egyptians may have built the Pyramids.
However, at the same time there are several different ways they could have, and they certainly had the tools to make and cuts the blocks needed.

reply to post by mamasita


The sumerians got their knowledge from somewhere. Did you know they had music and at a mathematical level.

www.lightbridgemusic.com...

There are still thousands of tablets that still laid unread. There is about 200 people worldwide that can keep these tablets. To my knowledge they are kept in London. Wouldn't you think something so important to our history should be busted a gut to be desciphered, but unfortunately that doesn't appaer to be the case. I would love to be able to read cruciform, i'd be up for desciphering them.

Hello, Mamasita. Sorry to be so late replying, but it's been a busy week with computer crashes and homework.

thanks for that information, and I always read wikipedia for unbiased information.
Ok so goldmines are out but what about all the pyramids all over the world? Theres no way ancient people went to all that effort with their primative tools - not to mention the fact that they all say they were there when they arrived.

Hoooboy. Now there we get into a deep subject. Instead of me lecturing you (since you're so intelligent and curious), why don't I simply suggest that you read up on the Egyptian pyramids... the other 100 of them.

And the Nubian pyramids (look for pictures from curators of the sites because they'll have the archaeological info plus other artifacts associated with the structures)

...and the Incan pyramids (which are different from the Mayan) and the Chinese pyramids.

When I started, I had to kind of keep a timeline in mind so I could learn who had what when -- and what else was found with it.

So many people come out and make up pompous statements about pyramids without ever learning ABOUT the pyramids.

And...ah... Wikipedia isn't exactly unbiased (there's been lots of howls about that). It's a great starting point but shouldn't be taken as ultimate truth.

Atlantis and Sumeria don't mention eachother but they have to have similar origins.

?
Why? Atlantis was simply a fable -- a fictional place to set up a dialogue. Sumeria was a real place, and as the links said, evidence of the people who lived there before they called themselves "Sumerians" is around and in museums.

And about the Athens fighting with the Atlanteans the information is on this site (dont know how to quote yet)
atlantis.haktanir.org...

That's someone else's interpretation -- Read Plato instead! He's the original source (and you should ALWAYS go to the original source)
Here's links to Plato and the translation of Timaeus and Critias, the books with the brief mentions of Atlantis:
www.activemind.com...

Don't read others "putting words into Plato's mouth" -- read Plato!

As for the language - I found a great site dedicated to ancient languages:
www.ancientscripts.com...
which says that Egyptians, Sumerians and Mayans were taught to read and write by their gods.

Oh dear.

What it says is that their legends say that certain gods taught them writing.

However, what evidence says is that they didn't suddenly learn to write one year, but rather that they develop "ownership marks" (this is the way I draw an ox and anything that has THIS ox on it means "Clan of the Green Lawn") and from proto writing like this comes writing.

Here's a better page on how the cuneiform developed, with examples of the proto-cuneiform:
www.mesopotamia.co.uk...

And how did the Sumerians know so much about the solar system including the colours of uranus and neptune? And how our planet was smashed in a collision creating our moon?

Answer: They didn't.

Go off to the Cuneiform sites and the word lists for Sumerians and you'll find that they had no word for any planets beyond Saturn (visible planets.) You'll also find out that they didn't know anything about how the Earth was created cosmologically... but that they kept very accurate tables of star and planetary movements.

...of planets up to and including Saturn... and nothing else.

Go to the Sumerians and start reading driectly what they knew. Look at the tablets for yourself.

In fact why would ancient people spend so much time dedicating their lives to astronomy when they had more things to worry about like staying alive and defending against invading allies?

They didn't. The only astronomers around were at courts (who could afford them.) Everyone else had to work at other jobs.

A nice little site that explains it all:
mesopotamia.mrdonn.org...

And isnt it weird that we're "bush men" for hundreds of thousands of yrs n all of a sudden pow suddenly talking and writing and inventing agriculture and laws and wheels and buildings - and for no reason - it would take a slow gradual rise to b able to do that. They had to be taught.
Why isnt this subject being taken seriously by academics - there's obviously something there.

What's happened is that a number of people (whose sites and books you may have been reading) decided to proclaim things about humans that aren't true based on their own bad understanding of history.

Humans have been around for about 150,000 years... homo sapiens has been around for about 60,000 years (some debate on this figure). The population was fairly small (too busy running and hiding from predators) but began to live in larger groups during the Ice Age. The Dryas "dry period" following the end of the last ice age forced most tribal societies into valleys where they had to settle down (you don't do much innovation when most of your day is spent wandering around trying to find food or moving to a better campsite) and develop cities and agriculture.

Different climate pressures force different arrangements. Different materials offer opportunities for different development paths (low metal areas usually went into ceramics, high metal areas usually entered Bronze Ages first, etc, etc.) Trade and wars caused innovation, as did increasing longevity, social change (more leisue time), education, and the rise of a system that valued knowledge as much as a grain of wheat.

You can't develop tvs if your group is spending its days running around on the plains, chasing buffalos, and tanning hides and your expected lifespan is 45 years. You can't develop silicon chips if you live in a low tech city and spend most of your time in a shop trying to sell your wares. You can't develop sophisticated metal compounds if your only ore furnace is heated by animal dung and wood charcoal.

But they developed a lot of amazing and interesting things that are often overlooked by folks -- things well known to scholars and historians but completely unknown to most people (who aren't interested in diving into dusty manuscripts and long old treatises.)



[edit on 23-10-2008 by Byrd]

Originally posted by mamasita
reply to post by RuneSpider

 

you know what - i mustn't have studied much because i have heard nothing of these factories or water powered saws.

Most folks don't know about them, but the idea of a "factory" where a group of people get together to make a lot of something is very old. There were huge workshops in Egypt where they made literally tons of amulets. I have one from one of these "production line" workshops in Egypt -- an amulet of Bast that's about 2600 years old.

It was the Romans who had the water-powerd saws (neat, eh?)
docuwiki.net...

but also what about the harder rocks such as granite?

They had methods of quarrying them. There's a number of items around that are royal instructions to the quarries for granite blocks and so forth, and tools and tool marks have been found. I'm in a bit of a hurry now but can give you links much later or you can look for them (look for "ancient egypt stoneworker tools")

and all of this is still a hypothesis - the construction of the pyramids is still not definately known.
if you have proof of how you believe they were built - dont argue with me just show me the evidence i would love to see it.

The remains of the ramps used for hauling blocks were found recently, and there's always been a lot of other evidence including tomb paintings showing the movement of blocks... somewhere is an ancient drawing of them levering blocks into place (sorry... in a hurry or I'd try to find the link), as well as the titles and names of those priveleged to be buried in the cemetaries on Giza.

The problem is that nobody wants to read the rather dull archaeology magazines and reports -- and then some researchers assume (because they don't know where to find this) that nothing is known and then they hop to wild conclusions.

Sitchin is one of the worst... the truth is that he can't actually read the documents he is interpreting. He has to rely on translations which he can then twist to mean whatever he likes.

Originally posted by Byrd

 

It was the Romans who had the water-powerd saws (neat, eh?)
docuwiki.net...

Nuts, s'what happens when you try to post on something you're not all that familiar with.
I believe I saw the special on television, linked it to the Egyptians for some reason...

Originally posted by RuneSpider

Originally posted by Byrd

 

It was the Romans who had the water-powerd saws (neat, eh?)
docuwiki.net...

Nuts, s'what happens when you try to post on something you're not all that familiar with.
I believe I saw the special on television, linked it to the Egyptians for some reason...

No worries.

We all know the Egyptians used laser beans to cut their granite.

Harte

reply to post by RuneSpider


thanks for this i found the sites interesting, but do you know if they have actually tried this?
i have actually been into ancient egypt since i was a kid but after they kept changing their stories about how the pyramids were built so many times i just left it until a big news story came on with a definate theory.

reply to post by Byrd


Thanks byrd for having the patience to explain it to me its much appreciated.
The reason i came on here is because i have respect for the knowledge and intelligence of ppl on here and i know that they/you research everything rather than these so called "scientists" on tv and writing books. Everything is so biased in books and on tv - and speaking of which hahaha i know wikipedia is definately NOT the definition of unbiased but compared to most of the sites on the internet - its the best i got to research anything.
I said it before and I'll say it again - i was not there i do not know what happened i'm just interested is all.
I've actually got nubia on my taping list on foxtel - thanks for that i've never heard of it before either and i do read and watch documentaries (its all i do my friends hate it) and these days anyone can make a doco and put on any information they see fit without authenticating it. But on the docos I've got and the sites i've researched they say that the tablets mention all about our solar system and even give the names of all the planets and suns and even our moon and how it was created. - i'm not saying its true but this is the information i am given.
as for the pyramids over the world - i'm sorry but i got sick of them saying "maybe maybe maybe". i cant become an expert on maybe's.
thanks so much for the link on plato i'll read it now and thats the thing with translators - they've all been proven to be wrong in their works - do you know it their are any plans to re-translate everything (bible etc)? that would be neccassary to wholly understand our past.
i've been trying to find translations of the tablets - would anyone know of any sites?
i've been reading many many books on the subject of civilisations - believe me everyones laughing at me coz i'm surrounded by books and writing notes - and i see a slight incline to evolving into civilisation - but i also see a big leap - the missing link so to speak - and i would really like information on this if anyone knows of any available.

reply to post by MCoG1980


yes i've got a book downstairs on mesopotamia (one used for school assignments would be best to describe it)
and it shows pictures of a complicated board game, a harp and some other musical instrument all in a gold and black intracate design and all 3 from 2400bc - i was shocked at the complexity of their skills at a date that they were supposedly just learning how to work as a community.
exactly - what better way to learn about our history than to learn from the people in their time.
i'd volunteer to translate for free just for the knowledge
you wouldnt know anything more about the tablets would you? i've been looking for information on them but always run out of time.

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by RuneSpider

Originally posted by Byrd

 

It was the Romans who had the water-powerd saws (neat, eh?)
docuwiki.net...

Nuts, s'what happens when you try to post on something you're not all that familiar with.
I believe I saw the special on television, linked it to the Egyptians for some reason...

No worries.

We all know the Egyptians used laser beans to cut their granite.

Harte

or even better - man carried a 50 tonne block of rock and carried it miles and pulled it all the way up a tower just for a tomb!

reply to post by Byrd


ok so the factories were for amulets - not for constructin the pyramids and the water powered saws were from rome - not from egypt - correct me if i'm wromg plz

reply to post by Byrd


and i've just read in a few account that they have absolutely no evidence for the amount of wood needed to create such huge ramps not to mention they were in a desert where every tree there would depend on their lively hood.
wouldnt it be at least more logical to say that civilisation has been around longer than we currently think? then i could believe that we could have done this otherwise i dont think we had enough time to work together so well if we were so primative. I wish scientists would make up their minds - at that age were we cultured or primative????

reply to post by mamasita


The ramps were probably constructed of stone and earth not wood. Plenty of both in the neighborhood.

There is universal agreement in archeology that the Egyptians had a highly developed culture. High culture does not require high technology (relative to ours).

[edit on 25-10-2008 by Phage]

reply to post by Byrd


Oh dear.

What it says is that their legends say that certain gods taught them writing.

However, what evidence says is that they didn't suddenly learn to write one year, but rather that they develop "ownership marks" (this is the way I draw an ox and anything that has THIS ox on it means "Clan of the Green Lawn") and from proto writing like this comes writing.

Here's a better page on how the cuneiform developed, with examples of the proto-cuneiform:
www.mesopotamia.co.uk...


thanx for that link but i have read on the evolution of writing and those "original" scripts are actually 3rd/4th generation text
you can tell straight away - i'm no expert but this is wat i've gone out of my way to learn and those markings are not original - the first writings were based on more rounded pictograms - its all in a couple of books downstairs so cant provide a link but i did spend hrs researching it like i have spent a good 15% of my life reading nothing but non fiction books (mostly on facts) so i don't read voo doo stuff.
ps isnt there a maturity level for this site? my friends might be airheads but they act a hell of alot more mature than ppl on here.

reply to post by Phage


ooh ramps out of stone - i like that one and thats something i can believe - thank you!

reply to post by Phage


obviously they didnt have technology relative to ours but they had to have technology on some scale to make the mathmatical calculations, the ramps, the "factories" - all of this requires some degree of technology - the question is how long did it take to aquire that "technology" n culture? and why were pyramids so important to the people all over the world when they had different purposes?
the more i research the more questions i end up with!