Human Testing On Criminals?

reply to post by Ign0rant


What's our punishment...well....we have to put all this money into the jail system that's harboring people that commit wrong doings. Oh...and the fact that we have to live with these people that don't get caught..and live with the problems that they create.

lol, wow. So a criminal in jail for 5 years should get tested on, and he might possibly have a chronic illness that lasts the rest of his life. And the city or company that funded the tests would have to pay for his health care. Not a good idea.

Rats and monkeys are disposable. They have no rights, and we should inject, cut, radiate, chemo-fy, and irratate to our hearts content on them.

Originally posted by StretchUSAF
reply to post by Ign0rant

 

What's our punishment...well....we have to put all this money into the jail system that's harboring people that commit wrong doings. Oh...and the fact that we have to live with these people that don't get caught..and live with the problems that they create.

You're quite right we are going in circles. Well I guess this stems from a prior belief...
May I ask you a question sir do you believe in an eye for an eye?

I myself believe that that is an ridiculous belief which passes on hate and violence. If we follow that principle we would have a world full of blind men. You are applying that belief to this thread. "He is a murderer because he killed a man and he should be killed as well." I can't agree to that, sorry we are just on different sides on the coin unwilling to change our opinions.

-Ign0RanT

reply to post by ghaleon12


Wow...somebody hasn't been reading the entire conversation..please read the entire post before typing your thoughts please...Thank You

reply to post by Ign0rant


Do I believe in an eye for an eye..?? Most definately! But...as I said in another response...I will let God sort it all out when we reach that final destination. I agree...that if we all go by that belief...than we will have a bunch of blind people running around!

Once again...I appreciate the fact that we can all talk about this like adults with no mudslinging! Ign0rant...I will be adding you as a foe...but in a friendly kind of way!



I am going to bed for the night...but will happily resume after work tomorrow...I will ask my fellow Wingmen what they think.
Just wanted to let ya'll know that I am still in the thread...but taking a break.
Look forward to battling it out tomorrow!

The people in prison are our children, trauma victims in a grossly brutal and unbalanced world that only supports the few and makes unbearable the lives of the many. They're human beings and not guinee pigs.

Edit to add: the worst of them, though needing to be kept away from the public due to being dangerous are still 10 times better people in their cores than the politicians elected and TPTB.

[edit on 19-10-2008 by mystiq]

I have read the whole thread and I find it absurd, but I find absurd things fun so it all works out.

The reason you can kill a criminal but not do tests on him is because suffering isn't involved after they are dead. If you test on a criminal and they're in chronic pain for the rest of their life, that would be cruel. Strange perhaps but it's true.

reply to post by ghaleon12


Ok...so what if we do the test....then if suffering is followed..then put them out of their misery?

I know the next post...

Well..who am I to kill them if they are suffering??

Then I will follow up with:

Who were they to kill an innocent person in the first place?

Just trying to save you a post!

Originally posted by ghaleon12
Rats and monkeys are disposable. They have no rights, and we should inject, cut, radiate, chemo-fy, and irratate to our hearts content on them.

Off topic, I know...

But I have had rats more intelligent than people I've met.

Well what about serious repeat offenders that are mass murderers, baby killers, pedophiles and also rapists. Even in some circumstances a first offense of such done in a brutally unhumane way warrants the possibility of being entered into such a program as human clinical testing.

Now It could be that after animal trials, instead of willing volunteers whom may jeapordize their own life for the sake of a little paycheck. We use death row and lifetimers who meet the required checks to be entered in to the program. ( These checks I imagine will be thouroughly thought out by a committee of some sort) Also we could skip animal trials just for the fact that "these" people regressed back to animalistic actions when perpatrating
these crimes.

Suffering? Nothing a labotomy wouldn't fix. These tests may even be on determining cure's or preventive measures toward's the tendencies of pedophilism.

Instead of rotting away in a prison cell, they can possibly become beneficial to development's in the science of human biology.



Also you don't think they're not testing these people or even innocent victims in black labs around the world or .....cruise liners in international waters away from any laws or reprocussions.....

Originally posted by LostNemesis

Originally posted by ghaleon12
Rats and monkeys are disposable. They have no rights, and we should inject, cut, radiate, chemo-fy, and irratate to our hearts content on them.

Off topic, I know...

But I have had rats more intelligent than people I've met.

Well your level of intellect appears to be on the same level of beasts since you care about them so much. I'm not a bleeding-heart PETA member, not everyone is. And you should try to stay on topic so it doesn't get derailed and lighten up. Just because someone has a different opinion than you doesn't make them stupid, it makes you stupid though. I'm sick of these attacks.
I've already gone through it LostNemesis, look at the 5th post in this thread and look at all the pretty stars.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Something above an animal exists, *shocking* its called a human. I'm a lover of humans, not animals.

reply to post by StretchUSAF


No, you wouldn't even do the test because suffering is a possible outcome. Not to mention you have to get consent for basically everything. I know if they are on death row, you'd almost like to do some sort of important test on them before they die, but it just wouldn't happen.




[edit on 19-10-2008 by ghaleon12]

It is too much of a slippery slope for me ethicaly and moraly.

Even if they were pure voulenteers
Even if the pharma company agreed to provide medical care for the rest of thier lives.

Its simply too much of an ethical and moral violation for me.

Also, prisoners tend to be in spotty health to begin with with issues around substance abuse etc. That may throw off the validity of said research.

I've already gone through it LostNemesis, look at the 5th post in this thread and look at all the pretty stars.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Something above an animal exists, *shocking* its called a human. I'm a lover of humans, not animals.

Ya lol and look 2 posts below yours and it's more pretty stars.

No, you wouldn't even do the test because suffering is a possible outcome.

Not with a labotomy, and also these tests do make it to human trials eventually. As for possible suffering all depends on what tests are being done.

Not to mention you have to get consent for basically everything. I know if they are on death row, you'd almost like to do some sort of important test on them before they die, but it just wouldn't happen.

They give consent when they end up in prison and after meeting the requirements that would yet be determined.




[edit on 19-10-2008 by ghaleon12]

Here's my opinion on the matter without reading this whole thread, so i apologize if this was stated before. I agree that this is a possibly good idea, but than again i think this should be very concerning and appalling that someone would even suggest this (no offense OP).

I think that the subjectee (i don't know if that's a word), even if they have no rights, should still be able to consent to this, this should be given as an option or as an alternative, if presented at all. For example, if someone is about to get the electric chair, they can opt for an alternative test subject. Put on max security, no contact by outside source, and the only contact they get is the docs that work on them. But i can only assume this would turn out to be a pointlessly small number of people.

I don't think this ever should or ever will happen, every human being, no matter the crime, has the God given right to live, their punishment is jail time, not a mystery needle

If we decide we have a "right" to perform experiments on inmates, we might as well set up gulags. While we're at it, let's torture them.

The point of prison is not to strip human dignity. It is to keep dangerous people from the rest of society, and (ostensibly) rehabilitate them.

And remember, at this point people are "in" for crimes based on legislation of morality, and while it's pretty clear that murderers should be kept away from society, I'm not so sure weed smokers fall into that category.

Would we really be so base as to play with others' health against their will?

All human testing should be fully informed and voluntary.

Test the death row inmates and the pedophiles. They are just draining the system anyway. I just hate to see little bunnies and cute monkeys used for testing.

America has more persons in prison then any other country in the world.

The United States has the highest documented per capita rate of incarceration of any country in the world.[

The number of prisoners held in 214 countries is reported. Over 9.25 million people are incarcerated, with almost 50% held in the U.S., followed by China, then Russia. The U.S. has the highest prison population rate of 738 per 100,000 of its national population, well above Russia (611 per 100,000). Rates below 150 per 100,000 are experienced by 61% of the countries reviewed

nicic.org...

STOP for a minute and think about that fact.
How can a country which claims to have so called "freedom" have so many incarcerated?

1. Could it be that the USA is full of criminals?
2. Could it be that the USA has a dysfuntional society?
3. Could the laws of the USA be wrong?
...go on ask yourself why....

Then you need to examine why Americans allow this to happen?
Ask yourself why the home of the brave are so afraid that they lock up so many, place innocent persons on death row and execute them!

Why do the innocent confess?Why do the innocent confess?

False confessions and admissions have been involved in 25% of wrongful convictions later overturned by DNA testing. Marty Tankleff, left, was 17 years old when he made a false admission under police pressure. He spent 17 years in prison before new evidence proved his innocence. On Monday, he’ll discuss his case as a guest on the Oprah Winfrey Show

www.innocenceproject.org...

Upon further investagation you will discover that most.....about 80% come from lower middle class and below. Why?

It costs money to maintain innocents?
Do you know that in 34 percent of the cases of innocent persons on death row the courst have suppresed evidence? Why?

As you dig deeper you will find that the population of prisons has quadropled after 1980....(Regean/Bush)

recent decades the U.S. has experienced a surge in its prison population, quadrupling since 1980, partially as a result of mandated sentences that came about during the "war on drugs

www.ojp.usdoj.gov...

Violent crime has dropped since 1990....en.wikipedia.org...-RoyWalmsley-2

Violent crime and property crime have declined since the early 1990s.[10]

So, just a few fact to help you form your opinion on the topic of drug trials etc.......

BUT guess what....they already DO what you have suggested?

Yes. You, the op, have your wish and they are and have been doing this for some time. This and a whole lot worse. The Fourth Reich is alive and well in US prisons. You should become a prison gaurd OP...you would fit in well.

Yet in a convenient disassociation from the ethical implications of the Nuremberg Code, the United States became the only nation in the world to officially sanction the use of prisoners in experimental clinical trials

www.inthesetimes.com...

Sort of a good thing if you feel your nationalism rising! Here is a good book to read if you feel so strongly in favour of the use of prisoners in experimental trials.en.wikipedia.org...

He, Mr. Hitler, was in favour of the same thing the OP is in favour of.

During World War II, a number of German physicians conducted painful and often deadly experiments on thousands of concentration camp prisoners without their consent.

www.ushmm.org...

Here are some other books to read concerning the American Fourth Reich.

Acres of Skin: Human Experiments at Holmesburg Prison : A True Story of Abuse and Exploitation in the Name of Medical Science www.amazon.com...

HERE are a few doctors who agree with the OP.....

Dr. Heinrich BerningDr. Heinrich Berning
An associate professor at Hamburg University, Berning lead the "famine experiments" on Soviet prisoners. While the prisoners starved to death, he observed their bodily functions degrade; this included loss of libido, dizziness, headaches, edema and swelling of the lower abdomen (Annas & Grodin, 1992). Berning then published his results after the war.
Dr. Philip Bouhler
Bouhler was the head of the early euthanasia program (otherwise known as the T4 program) along with Himmler.
Dr. Viktor Brack
Brack formulated ideas for experiments with Himmler. Brack was very interested in assembly line sterilizations and castration. He wanted to be in charge of the x-ray experiments at Auschwitz, but Himmler choose Schumann to be in charge over Brack.
Dr. Karl Brandt
Brandt was a personal physician to Hitler and one of the main defendants in the "Trial of Twenty-Three".

www.webster.edu...

Have fun OP....

Hey Stretch USAF.....here is something for you to chew on!

Do you know that it’s legal to test biological and chemical agents against US
citizens? It’s legal. You know, all that has to be done is to get the approval of the
mayor of the city, or his equivalent in any area. Or some representative official. Noone
knows this, but it can be checked out. Go look it up. It’s all carefully hidden
away in the law somewhere, but it’s all in the public domain. It's all there]

www.projectcamelot.net...

that's a pretty far cry from what we have now. a few teens beat my roomies mom to death over a cash register. they didn't even get hard time.

but i'm against it anyways. so you want to make criminals more valuable to society. well, how about all those loons at mental hospitals? how about prisoners getting a free lunch? they're the enemy trying to kill us...

see where i'm going? it's amoral to punish someone because you dislike them or their status in society, and it's amoral to make someone do something because you have to take care of them. even volunteers for clinical trials, even people with terminal illnesses, have rights and those rights get tramped on occasionally too. see jesse gelslinger

besides, this is a conspiracy forum...i must say that the US Gov have already done # like that...drugging unknowing people with hallucinogens, and probably is doing it now too.