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Why do rapist and pedophiles have paternity rights?

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posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by TheColdDragon
 



Originally posted by TheColdDragon
reply to post by jsobecky
 


Actually, no, we don't. None of us have to examine it from any lens of what society finds acceptable. It is not our responsible to commit and submit to what society views as acceptable when we view an argument.


You certainly do if you choose to live under the laws of our society. Otherwise, it's nothing more than an academic argument.


As such, if two people regardless of age are getting it on consentually and enjoying their horizontal mambo, it is NOT rape. If there is force, coercion and domination involved, it very likely IS. The only reason I am skeptical of this article is the 20 or so times it happened seems suspicious in my point of view.


There is no such thing as consent here, as much as you would like there to be. You need to realize the power an adult has over a child. Children are intellectually, emotionally, and experience-wise unable to understand the consequences of their deeds. They will succumb to pressure and threats from adults.




posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
You certainly do if you choose to live under the laws of our society. Otherwise, it's nothing more than an academic argument.


What an interesting turn of PHRASE! I of course did NOT choose to live under the laws of your society, but I am subject to them just the same! As a responsible United States Citizen, it is my right and DUTY to dissent from the law when I find it unethical, immoral, or just plain wrong.

It is not my responsibility to blindly submit and cow-tow to the laws of a society merely because they HAPPEN to be laws. Nor am I responsible to condone, promote, or encourage frivolous or unrighteous laws to be instigated upon the people.

So, Step off.



There is no such thing as consent here, as much as you would like there to be. You need to realize the power an adult has over a child. Children are intellectually, emotionally, and experience-wise unable to understand the consequences of their deeds. They will succumb to pressure and threats from adults.


I will not take your word for it that there was no consent, because you are clearly biased and incapable of conceiving of a situation where there was consent. Which makes all of your arguments an appeal from Emotion, rendering your impetuous viewpoints debase and valueless as a cogent argument.

I never said that there WAS consent, merely that I questioned the accuracy of the article because I was suspicious as to the number of times this 13 year old was snogged by the bloke.



posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


Why do we have to look at it in the context of our society? if it's this one case then ok but you said a 13 year old child, as in any 13 year old.

and there are many countries that have young ages of consent, many of whom would not be classed as third world

Argentina, 13 for male, 16 for female.....why the difference?
China 14, all equal.....
Brazil3 14...male, 18...female.....bigger difference?
Germany 14...male, 16...female
Japan 13, male 18, female
Spain 13 both

not all third world countries



posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by whoswatchinwho
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you on this, the consent, in this context, is a societal thing. In many countries children as young as 12 can be married, therefore can have consensual sex. We live in society that sees this as wrong and have laws to uphold this.


Really?
Can you name 3 countries in which marriage is legal at 12 years old?



posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by whoswatchinwho
Japan 13, male 18, female


Actually, Japan on the list of world-wide age of consent is listed differently; 13-18, rather than 13/18. Thusly, it would be 13 THROUGH 18 depending on situations I would imagine. Nigeria has a Consent age of 13. There are a HELL of a lot of countries with the consent age of 14 for both sexes... and there are still a lot of states in the U.S. that have 14 as the age of consent.



posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by TheColdDragon
 



Originally posted by TheColdDragon

Originally posted by jsobecky
You certainly do if you choose to live under the laws of our society. Otherwise, it's nothing more than an academic argument.


What an interesting turn of PHRASE! I of course did NOT choose to live under the laws of your society, but I am subject to them just the same! As a responsible United States Citizen, it is my right and DUTY to dissent from the law when I find it unethical, immoral, or just plain wrong.


I would suggest that you are in the distinct minority when you advocate pedophelia.



It is not my responsibility to blindly submit and cow-tow to the laws of a society merely because they HAPPEN to be laws. Nor am I responsible to condone, promote, or encourage frivolous or unrighteous laws to be instigated upon the people.


I personally do not find child protection laws frivolous or unrighteous, esp. when it comes to sexual predatorship. This is where you and I differ.



I will not take your word for it that there was no consent, because you are clearly biased and incapable of conceiving of a situation where there was consent. Which makes all of your arguments an appeal from Emotion, rendering your impetuous viewpoints debase and valueless as a cogent argument.


You bet I'm biased in this case. You can say that again and again, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

Your problem is that you think that a child can give consent, and that makes it OK to abuse them. And you frequent, prurient references to the rape act are disgusting.



posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by Kailassa
Really?
Can you name 3 countries in which marriage is legal at 12 years old?


Angola, Mexico and the Philippines.

Give me a cookie.



posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by TheColdDragon

Originally posted by Kailassa
Really?
Can you name 3 countries in which marriage is legal at 12 years old?


Angola, Mexico and the Philippines.

Give me a cookie.


Now there are some countries we should emulate.



posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
I would suggest that you are in the distinct minority when you advocate pedophelia.


And you're someone who doesn't know the definition of Pedophelia. Go look it up and stop butchering the english language.



I personally do not find child protection laws frivolous or unrighteous, esp. when it comes to sexual predatorship. This is where you and I differ.


Child protectionism brings us the ESRB, Censored Cable, anti-porn laws and viewpoints, as well as a drastically under-educated majority of people whereas Sex is concerned.

As for sexual Predatorship, I wouldn't disagree that such laws are important. However, the law needs to disseminate just as people need to, which includes knowing what a child is and what a child isn't, what consent is and what consent isn't rather than painting a broad brush of "NAUGHT PAWSIBBLE!" across pre-teens and sexuality.



You bet I'm biased in this case. You can say that again and again, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

Your problem is that you think that a child can give consent, and that makes it OK to abuse them. And you frequent, prurient references to the rape act are disgusting.


And your problem is you don't know what a Child is, so you label anything below age as a child regardless of "Children" who ARE having sex at 12 and 13 with their peers. But that's okay, because the Peers aren't twice as old.



posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 10:12 PM
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However, the law needs to disseminate just as people need to


And you accuse *me* of butchering the English language?


Buh-bye, munchkin.



posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 10:13 PM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 


I do apologise I hit the 2 instead of 3, the whole thread has been based on a 13 year old.



posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
And you accuse *me* of butchering the English language?


Buh-bye, munchkin.

The Definition of Disseminate

In common usage, Disseminate means to spread and examine, to express ideas and principals, to sow thought and introspection through the spreading of ideas.

My usage was perfectly Kromulant.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 03:31 AM
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reply to post by TheColdDragon
 


Disseminate makes no sense in that context.

Just admit it - you meant to say "discriminate".



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 04:11 AM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


I trust that the failure in understanding the context and nuance of its usage is entirely your own.

Since you have ceded the argument by reducing your approach to knit-picking word usage rather than responding to my cogent and well-worded response, I will accept the victory for the conversation.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 05:11 AM
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reply to post by TheColdDragon
 


Right. Whatever you said.





posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by TheColdDragon

Originally posted by Kailassa
Really?
Can you name 3 countries in which marriage is legal at 12 years old?


Angola, Mexico and the Philippines.

Give me a cookie.


Sorry, no anzac for that pathetic attempt.


Angola:

Minimum legal age for marriage without consent:
Female: 18 Years, Male: 18 Years
2004 UNDAW_CEDAW Country Reports Aug2007

COMMITTEE ON RIGHTS OF CHILD CONSIDERS REPORT OF ANGOLA
With regards to the minimum age of marriage, the delegation said that a girl of 14 and a boy of 16 could marry only if they had parental consent, because they were considered minors. Either the family council or the courts could decide on this situation.


Mexico:

Minimum legal age for marriage without consent:
Female: 14-16 Years, Male: 16-18 Years
2004 UNDAW_CEDAW Country Reports Aug2007

Marriagable age
Mexico: 18, 16 with parental or legal consent, 14 for pregnant females with legal consent.

MARRIAGE IN MEXICO
People under the age of 18 may not get married in Mexico without parental consent. With parental consent, boys have to be at least 16 and girls need to be at least 14 years of age.


Philippines

Minimum legal age for marriage without consent:
Female: 18 Years, Male: 18 Years
2004 UNDAW_CEDAW Country Reports Aug2007

Philippines Marriage License Information
Marriage applicants who are age 18 to 21 must have parental consent in writing, those age 21 to 25 must have written parental advice (a written indication that the parents are aware of the couple's intent to marry). The revised Family Code of the Philippines, which took effect on August 4, 1988, prohibits marriage for individuals below the age of 18.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:13 AM
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badgerprints



It is an unfortunate fact that the legal systm seems to spend more time and effort protecting the rights of the criminals than it does protecting the victims.


Very true.
Its about time they got their priorities right.




TheColdDragon



Which is why a whole subsection of our Grandparents were married between 12 and 15? And why a lot of people in said generation were having babies around then?


The age of consent was different back then,thats why.



A 13 year old can give consent if they enjoy the sex and want to do it.


If this was so then there would be no statutory rape laws.The reason their are is because teenagers under the age of 16 are minors and therefore can not have legally given consent.



As I said before, if the 13 year old slutted themselves out, it's not rape.


WTF!
Rape is rape is rape.
Saying that a child (or woman) was a slut is nothing but a BS excuse.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by whoswatchinwho
reply to post by Kailassa
 


I do apologise I hit the 2 instead of 3, the whole thread has been based on a 13 year old.


That's easy to do.

Now how about naming me 3 civilized countries in which marriage is legal at 13?

I specify "civilized" because you are suggesting our moral beliefs should be influenced by what goes on in the rest of the world.

There are some customs, such as the old practices of bringing up boys in some parts of Indonesia, where toddler boys lived on "mens' milk," (and I'm not talking about breast feeding,) which sane people do not want to emulate.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:31 AM
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Have found more information about this case.

Seems this case has a happy ending.Yet too many do not.


There is a story out of Nebraska about a serious wrong. A man rapes the 13 year old daughter of his girlfriend. She becomes pregnant and goes to place the child for adoption.The rapist aka the father wants custody of this child.

amyadoptee.blogspot.com...



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


I don't think Cold is arguing the legality of statutory rape laws, I think he is saying it is psychologically possible that underage can give consent.

I had plenty of consensual sex with my 15 year old ex-girlfriend when I was 17... even for a week when I had turned 18 and she was still 15


If there was a definitive age that represented psychological maturation then we would see unison amongst all the age of consent numbers.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]




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