Natural Selection and the Genetic Basis for Homosexuality

There is absolutely no comparison between a development disability that has profound consequences for living a normalized life, (this is not a sexual norm, this is housing oneself, maintaining the house, and being able to live independently with or without work) and sexual preference which in no way challenges these abilities. This is comparing apples and oranges. We don't really know how nature works with these things. If advanced gene mapping occurs and we were all able to select traits for our children, enhanced IQs, longer life spans, and eliminate diseases, I really wonder if homosexuality would disappear, or whether nature would ensure alternate configurations anyway in its demand for diversity.

I disagree ..if it was a genetic defect or a chemical imbalance or something like that then ..it would fall under the same category as being Bipolar or ADHD ,Autistic etc ..
And you would think then that seeking a cure or a fix of some sort would be the thing to do .
Instead of accepting it as "Something that you cannot help "

There is nothing similar in any way, or any indication of any disease or manifestation of any disease, aside from chosing an alternative sexual preference, in any gay or bisexual person of either gender. I have been in the presence people in each one of those categories. They are conditions. Homosexuality has absolutely no comparison to any of them, or any other physically challenging condition afflicting the population. The only possible way to eliminate it and create a homogeneous population is through advanced cloning and genetic manipulation. As I said, we don't know enough about natures demand for diversification of configuration to know if that will end this issue or not. Its something that merely needs mindful consideration of all people under standards of tolerance and maintaining the highest of human rights for this problem to go away. Because we have no proof that the "problem" will go away if advanced genetics kicks in, but we do know the "problem" will go away if people start tolerating others and mind their own business concerning others choice of partner.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by mystiq]

You know, when someone steals compulsively, they call that a disorder. When a child in the third grade has trouble sitting still in school, yep! It is a disorder (adhd). When someone washes their hands to many times, a disorder. When a person finds it hard to be in a small place…disorder. However, when a man goes against the natural order of reproductive biology, when he puts animals or other foreign objects in his rectum. When he dresses like the opposite sex or actually has body cut off so that he can be a woman…this is a celebrated acceptable “life-style” choice and is no way a disorder or mental illness.

I would like to know what the gay people are going to do if they ever find the missing “gay-gene”. When straight parents start aborting and wiping this blight from the earth with a woman’s “right to chose” Will the gay community become Pro-Life?

I agree it is not a disease ..Neither is Bipolar neither is ADHD ..
It boils down to no SELF CONTROL and giving into addictive nature..thats what I am getting at .
Shrinks etc are the ones who are claiming they are chemical imbalances (which to them is a disease of sorts andthey treat it as such which does not seem to be working out to well is it ? because it is NOT A DISEASE ..neither is it a chemical imbalance otherwise Anti Depressants etc would be working much better than they do .....) ...
Homosexual Behaviour is the very same thing if you ask me .
It is a sexual preference due to sexual addiction ...and lack of self control.

I am pretty sure that any one of us straight people if we jumped in with both feet and performed or had someone perform a sexual act on someone of another gender ...could just as easily get caught up in LIKING IT and preferring it over being straight.In fact I bet if a poll was taken ..most would say they were straight first and then went gay after doing it a few times .they enjoyed it so they stayed with it ...

As a child I am pretty sure that MOST OF US checked it out ...I know I did .
Does that mean we are all gay at birth and just didnt know it then >? NO >

It is a sexual preference ..not a genetic defect ..


If you say it is not then you need to include Pedophiles and Rapists and S&Ms in the genetic defect category too ...oh and maybe even Porn Addicts ...Because they cant help it either .

[edit on 20-10-2008 by Simplynoone]

Its a not a choice in the least. Research has found the brains of homosexual men is similar to those of women, and lesbians similar to that of men. It takes countless thousands of years to change physical structures, and there is simply no indulgence that one does that can spontaneously mutate your brain. Furthermore, the feelings I have as a straight female would absolutely mean no indulgence in that way is possible. I would not even chose to indulge, despite feeling no spiritual chastisement, if I was stuck on a deserted island with another like minded female for the rest of my life. This same aversion that straight people feel is shared by gay people for the opposite sex.

Hormons are taken when they have sex changes ...if that works then why cant they take hormones to get balanced out ...and stay straight ?
I would believe it could be more of a hormonal imbalance than I would it being a genetic defect ...

My own personal opinion is that God would not say it was wrong and they will be judged for that behaviour (just like everyone else will be for their behaviours ) if it was a genetic defect or something that they could not help ..Wouldnt you agree ?
As I said in another post ...Addicts and Alcoholics along with the others I mentioned above (Pedophiles ....well we could even add criminals couldnt we ?) claim they are also genetic defects so they would also be considered as people who cant help what they do ..dont you think ?
Should we just accept them for how they are too ?
I would think we should then if that is the case .

[edit on 20-10-2008 by Simplynoone]

You and a few others insited it was not harmful. The evidence says otherwise.

Sex itself is harmful without protection... Whats the point really??? All humans have a good chance of getting infected with a disease transmitted by sex, does it really matter??? Let's say if all STD's were to somehow be cured, then what would be wrong with homosexuality??? The collapse of civilization is just absurd. They have a better chance of getting diseases through anal sex??? So do heterosexuals that in-gage in anal sex...

I will add the commentary that I think it's sad that the debate even exists; that people can't just accept others for who they are and get along.

Thats exactly what I've been saying. This should not even be an issue. All this has done is create more seperation within the human race...

If it is in fact a genetic thing or whatever ...why arent yall out to get it fixed then.Seems to me if it was something that serious and has you enslaved as in you cant help it (That is being enslaved to it then it isnt it ?) you would want to get help then so that Scientists could get to working on a cure .....(Meds or Genetic altering or something) to get you free from the slavery of the genetic default ....

It doesn't need to be fixed. Being gay won't kill you, or harm you, or anyone around you. Why fix what just isn't broken???

If it is in fact a genetic defect then you would think that they would not want that defect to keep going down the line throughout the generations .
That is like saying it would be ok to just allow down syndrome and many other genetic defects like Cancer etc to carry on the genetic line .Would you want your children to all be defective too ?
Wouldnt you want that defect to be studied and fixed if possible ?

If in fact homosexuality is a "defect", it still does not compare to cancer because homosexuality won't eventually kill you...

I find it funny how christians are supposed to "love thy neighbor", but atheists seem to be more tolerant, and accepting of other people... I can't say that about the atheists at stormfront, but I've noticed that here, and other sites I visit... As the world is now, bigotry is the last thing we need, and bigotry is one thing christianity adds to...

this is off-topic but it's just something I've been noticing...

Clepto manics,Liars,Theives ,adulterers cant help themselves either then can they ?They are URGES that they cannot seem to control .......even though they try very hard not to do those things ..
They could also have genetic defects that cause them to do what they do ...
At least thats what I would say if going by your reasoning ...

[it still does not compare to cancer because homosexuality won't eventually kill you]

Well then please explain why Aids is rampant among mostly homosexuals ?

[I find it funny how christians are supposed to "love thy neighbor"]

I do love them which is the only reason why I wont help them justify their behaviour ....or enable them by telling them ..I know you cant help what you do so thats ok ....just like I would not tell an alcoholic or a clepto that it is ok because you just cant help yourself .


I have a child who is ADHD And Bipolar etc etc (at least according to the shrinks) he refuses to take meds (which I cant blame him) he is now 20 years old and still have bad problems ..But seems to be getting some of that bad behaviour under control ..........
Would it be ok for me to just say its ok son you cant help your behaviour so I wont punish you for making those bad choices you just made ?
NO >..he would never even give it a go then to try and CONTROL his behaviour if he is told you cant help it ..so just dont worry about it ..
He would be a TERROR if I just said ..dont worry about it ..you cant be fixed so just carry on .....

[edit on 20-10-2008 by Simplynoone]

[It doesn't need to be fixed. Being gay won't kill you, or harm you, or anyone around you. Why fix what just isn't broken???]

If it does not kill then why is Aids killing so many of them ???
If it is indeed a defect then it does need to be fixed ..would you just accept something that is defective as something you can live with if it could be fixed somehow ? I think not .

As far as harm ...what do you suppose children of these gays go through when they cannot figure out what is wrong with two moms and two dads and wonder why they fight so much (It is a proven fact that Gays have some of the most violent fights than anyone ..mainly because it is like two negative charges together ...they are the same gender they think too much alike etc ) ...the mental harm is just as bad as a physical one .What about family members who have to watch them DIE OF AIDS ? Is that not doing harm to others who LOVE THEM ?

Originally posted by drevill

homosexuals were not treated badly in Ancient Greece and they are not treated badly today Generally speaking

Generally speaking...most of the world looks unfavorably on homosexuality (Asia, Africa, Middle East, Russia, Carribean, many countries in South and Central America). Many homosexuals are killed or imprisoned(esp. in third world countries) and/or ostracized from family (in first world countries this is common). I don't think people would CHOOSE for that to happen. For you to say gay people are generally not treated badly today is ignorance.

Originally posted by Simplynoone

If it does not kill then why is Aids killing so many of them ???

HIV spreads around the gay community because 1) they do not use as much protection [no pregnancy problem] and 2)they engage in anal sex which is all together riskier for transmission.

HIV was viewed first in heterosexuals in Congo.

If HIV was only in the gay community and started in the gay community your moronic comment may make a tiny bit of sense. But you just proved that you [simplynoone] simply knows nothing.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by RetinoidReceptor]

[Generally speaking...most of the world looks unfavorably on homosexuality (Asia, Africa, Middle East, Russia, Carribean, many countries in South and Central America). Many homosexuals are killed or imprisoned(esp. in third world countries) and/or ostracized from family (in first world countries this is common). I don't think people would CHOOSE for that to happen. For you to say gay people are generally not treated badly today is ignorance.]

I know this was not directed at me ..but I would like to say something about this

Alot of people CHOOSE lifestyles etc and still get mistreated and abused due to their choice ...Because it is not considered acceptable behaviour ..or it just weird or because of how they were raised etc etc ....
I chose to be a Christain and we get mistreated everyday even right here on ATS (at least according to us we do ) .....
Christians also get killed in other countrys for making that choice ..
I got mistreated at School for having warts and pimples ..and for being overweight ......
Blacks get mistreated for being black etc etc etc ..

Mistreatment of others for being different is WRONG no matter who or what the circumstances are .I consider anyone who mistreats another as being UNACCEPTABLE behaviour as well

So stop using that as a way to justify it ...

Clepto manics,Liars,Theives ,adulterers cant help themselves either then can they ?They are URGES that they cannot seem to control .......even though they try very hard not to do those things ..

No, people can choose whether to do those things or not... I used to steal alot when I was little, not anymore. I have full control of those thing.

Well then please explain why Aids is rampant among mostly homosexuals ?

AIDS is rampant period. Anybody can contract AIDS, not just homosexuals.

do love them which is the only reason why I wont help them justify their behaviour ....or enable them by telling them ..I know you cant help what you do so thats ok ....just like I would not tell an alcoholic or a clepto that it is ok because you just cant help yourself .

But homosexuality is none of those things, they cannot be compared.

If it does not kill then why is Aids killing so many of them ???

AIDS is killing so many people, period. AIDS does not discriminate, if you have unprotected sex, and are promiscuous then you have a chance of contracting it, whether you be a heterosexual, or homosexual.

If AIDS was exclusive to gay people then you might have a point, but it isn't.

As far as harm ...what do you suppose children of these gays go through when they cannot figure out what is wrong with two moms and two dads and wonder why they fight so much (It is a proven fact that Gays have some of the most violent fights than anyone ..mainly because it is like two negative charges together

Who the hell came up with that statistic??? That is pure BS...

they are the same gender they think too much alike etc ) ...the mental harm is just as bad as a physical one .What about family members who have to watch them DIE OF AIDS ? Is that not doing harm to others who LOVE THEM ?

What mental harm??? What about family members of heterosexuals who have to watch them die of AIDS??? What is the difference???

Are these really the best reasons why homosexuality is wrong that you can come up with without mentioning religion???.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
(It is a proven fact that Gays have some of the most violent fights than anyone ..mainly because it is like two negative charges together ...they are the same gender they think too much alike etc ) ...the mental harm is just as bad as a physical one .What about family members who have to watch them DIE OF AIDS ? Is that not doing harm to others who LOVE THEM ?

Good God what rubbish. There is no such thing as 'thinking too much alike'. Same sex couples think similarly and hence understand each other far better that hetero couples. That tends to help strengthen a relationship. Men don't understand women and vice versa so how could there possibly be any more mental harm from a gay relationship than a strait one.

[be any more mental harm from a gay relationship than a strait one.]


There you go putting words in my mouth ...I never said MORE HARM ..And I did not compare ..I actually consider it equal to straight parents who dont consider what their kids go through ...(I had to endure an wife beater stepfather and IT HURT ME TO SEE MY MOM HURT ) ...and it did affect me so I know what I am talking about here ....ALL OF OUR ACTIONS wether good or bad do affect OTHER PEOPLE whether we know it or not ....

I posted what I did in answer to the question of "Who gets harmed by this union of men with men and women with women ".
I believe they (Gays) are overlooking the fact that their children and family members who mentally get harmed by these unions ..just like parents who cannot get along and fight like cats and dogs hitting and abusing eachother do not consider what it is doing to their kids .....NEITHER of them seem to care about that ...


I am not going to help yall justify this no matter what you say to me .
Even if I was not a CHristian ..I still would say it is NOT NATURAL and is against the NATURAL order of things ..just like HAARP altering weathering patterns .(it causes inbalances in nature) .or like humanists creating half man half human etc ..ETC ETC >.. ...And no justifying it in any way will change that fact ...

Originally posted by Simplynoone
I believe they (Gays) are overlooking the fact that their children and family members who mentally get harmed by these unions

HOW?

I still would say it is NOT NATURAL and is against the NATURAL order of things ...And no justifying it in any way will change that fact ...

I don't see it that way, a "natural way of things" is a concept, all it is is an atypical relationship. It seems to be a result of a hormone imbalance, one that the people choose to do nothing about.

i myself am not homoexual, but i have enough friends to feel a little insulted by the fact someone thinks its something genetic, its not a disease its a life choice, and its certainly nothing new, all i believe homosexuality is is the deep love between two people. you can have strong feelings for another human being and its completely natural. just because they choose someone of the same gender to love isnt anything linked to genetics its just the ability to let go of the limitations our culture has confined us with and being free enough to express those feelings. no one here can tell me they don't love someone of the same sex, best friends are often of the same sex and what is a marriage? what i think marriage is just two BEST friends that want to share everything with another whether the other person be a man or woman.... and we honestly dont have any right to think there is any other reason other than the fact that they love another deeply enough to be together, we also have no right to say they cant have a legal contract a stupid piece of paper to say they are married. if two people on this planet love eachother enough to do anything for eachother they have just as much right as i do to marry a man.

I posted what I did in answer to the question of "Who gets harmed by this union of men with men and women with women ".
I believe they (Gays) are overlooking the fact that their children and family members who mentally get harmed by these unions ..just like parents who cannot get along and fight like cats and dogs hitting and abusing eachother do not consider what it is doing to their kids .....NEITHER of them seem to care about that ...

The only people who get "harmed" by homosexuals are people who don't like homosexuals... Families who are supportive of their homosexual sons, daughters, siblings are not "harmed" by seeing them in a loving relationship.

How does 2 parents quarreling equal a loving homosexual couple. Do you really think they each cause the same level of abuse to a child that views it???

I am not going to help yall justify this no matter what you say to me .
Even if I was not a CHristian ..I still would say it is NOT NATURAL and is against the NATURAL order of things ..just like HAARP altering weathering patterns .(it causes inbalances in nature) .or like humanists creating half man half human etc ..ETC ETC >.. ...And no justifying it in any way will change that fact ...

I highly doubt you would if you weren't a christian... lol... Homosexuality is not an inbalance in nature...